POLL: Subsim Members-- more or less than 65% Pirates?

[Ships-R-Us]

Simply put. More or less than 60% Pirate members here? THIS IS A PRIVATE POLL---YOU NAME IS NOT LINKED TO YOUR VOTE.

I f'd up . Because I started this, I can not edit the poll.

YES= more than 60%

NO= less lan 60%.

Thank you for bringing up the binary idea. I hate to do another one as it will just clutter things up. I hope people read this before posting, but this will be so far down the list soon it will never be read.....Thank You sir.

[TarJak]

How can you have a yes/no binary to your question? It makes no sense.

If the answer is yes then more or less than 60% are using pirated copies. If the answer is not then more or less than 60% are not using pirated copies.

Additionally can you clarify whether you mean 65% or 60%.

BTW all my copies of SilentHunter I, II, III & IV were legally obtained.

[Ships-R-Us]

How can you have a yes/no binary to your question? It makes no sense.

I the answer is yes then more or less than 60% are using pirated copies. If the answer is not then more or less than 60% are not using pirated copies.

Additionally can you clarify whether you mean 65% or 60%.

BTW all my copies of SilentHunter I, II, III & IV were legally obtained.

YES= more than 60% NO= less than 60%
Simply put. More or less than 60% Pirate members here? THIS IS A PRIVATE POLL---YOU NAME IS NOT LINKED TO YOUR VOTE.

I f'd up . Because I started this, I can not edit the poll.

YES= more than 60%

NO= less lan 60%.

Thank you for bringing up the binary idea. I hate to do another one as it will just clutter things up. I hope people read this before posting, but this will be so far down the list soon it will never be read.....Thank You sir.

[TarJak]

Well not having any idea about the inclinations of more than a very small sample of Subsimmers that I have either met, or had dealings with, over the last few years, I'd have to say I have no idea as to what percentage are playing with pirated copies of the game.

I can say that at least the ones I've met and discussed the matter with all own legitimate copies so 100% of my sample have legitimate copies. But that would be less than 1% of everyone active here.

[Reece]

I agree with TarJak, and I would say that all of the regulars here would usually buy with a pre order, I always do, SH5 I will not buy because of the DRM/OSP, but if a crack/patch comes out I will use it but again on a legal purchased copy!:yep:

[Rilder]

I have a Legal copy of SH3, SH4 (And U-boat missions)

Thank you very much. :cool:

SH5 is not getting bought though since screw that DRM, I'd rather play a some stupid linear storyline game like "Mass effect" then deal with that.

[martes86]

I don't have official figures, so I can't tell for sure on a global level, but I don't think piracy is high around here. What sensible subsimmer would pirate his sims? It'd be madness knowing how hard is to get decent subsims.
Maybe there's some casuals pirating it, but the important audience, isn't.

[danlisa]

http://w3.bsa.org/globalstudy/

Probably more now thanks to invasive and damaging DRM methods.

Didn't vote as I don't agree with aspersions being cast on this community.

[kiwi_2005]

Own all original copies of SH2,3 4 and pre-ordered collectors edition of SH5.

[Onkel Neal]

I don't know what the percentages here are, but you can bet there are people here who play, yes, even Silent Hunter games without buying. When SH4 came out with its secret bootleg ID system, where illegal copies would have a crew with no eyes and crew chanting mysterious numbers, we had a LOT of people posting about it. :nope:

You want to know the best info about PC games an piracy, here is an article by noted tech author Koroush Ghazi, PC Game Piracy Examined (http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html)

Hopefully there are some who have long enough attention spans to read this all the way through without resorting to a session of HALO. It covers Steam, Starforce, the disparity between PC and console sales, and more. You can learn a lot from it.

[danlisa]

An interesting read....which I shall finish later.:up:

I stopped reading when the author started posting details about pirated PS3 games. It can't happen, It doesn't happen. There is no way run a pirated PS3 game on the console, the author was duped by fake torrents.:haha: Clever boy!

Reading continues.....

[TarJak]

An excellent article Neal which puts forward a reasonably well balanced overview of the situation. One aspect I noticed appeared to be missing and that was the relationship between publishers, wholesalers and retailers.

What is clear though is that consoles will continue to rise in popularity further marginallising the PC simulation market. Unfortunately this will mean the end will come some time for this genre of gaming, unless it is supported.

Economically there is clearly a mismatch between the price large sections of the market will pay (the value placed on the product), and the cost of production. Where this happens, the market must collapse. The speed at which it does is the prime variable.

[TarJak]

An interesting read....which I shall finish later.:up:

I stopped reading when the author started posting details about pirated PS3 games. It can't happen, It doesn't happen. There is no way run a pirated PS3 game on the console, the author was duped by fake torrents.:haha: Clever boy!

Reading continues.....Interestingly the reasons for this are also largelhy economic and related to the current cost of the hardware and not due to any effective copy protection/DRM schemes.

http://www.gamegrep.com/news/5847-reasons_why_piracy_hasnt_hit_the_playstation_3/

[danlisa]

That's certainly a part of it. Who want's to pay out for a BR Read/Write Drive and then contend with up to 100GBs of data in one burn, not to mention the bandwidth usage torrenting this stuff.

However, that's not the real problem. There is no DRM on any PS3 disc. It's built into the console in the form of a 6 level encryption key. The decoder of which is on the disc, encrypted, and can only be read by the first 3 levels of decryption on the console, which in turn then re-encrypts it, through the last 3 levels, to the key set that the disc is expecting.:haha:

This only came to light recently after a patent filed by Sony in 2008 was published. I read it and it fried my mind.

Bottom line is, you can copy & burn any PS3 game but your can never play it as the cyphers will never match. Sony got burned by the PS2 and PSP hacks, they made this console as attractive to the developers as possible.

[Schroeder]

I don't see much sense in this poll. No matter what the result will be it's not representative.

I have bought all Silent Hunter games so far starting from SH1 Commander's edition over SH2 and SH3 up to SH4 and then once again SH4 with the UBM add on. But I won't buy SHV until the DRM BS has been removed (and the modders have had a year or so to finish the game.).

[TarJak]

That's certainly a part of it. Who want's to pay out for a BR Read/Write Drive and then contend with up to 100GBs of data in one burn, not to mention the bandwidth usage torrenting this stuff.

However, that's not the real problem. There is no DRM on any PS3 disc. It's built into the console in the form of a 6 level encryption key. The decoder of which is on the disc, encrypted, and can only be read by the first 3 levels of decryption on the console, which in turn then re-encrypts it, through the last 3 levels, to the key set that the disc is expecting.:haha:

This only came to light recently after a patent filed by Sony in 2008 was published. I read it and it fried my mind.

Bottom line is, you can copy & burn any PS3 game but your can never play it as the cyphers will never match. Sony got burned by the PS2 and PSP hacks, they made this console as attractive to the developers as possible.Cool. Gotta link to something on the patent? Sounds like a cool way of keeping everything kosher.

Until last Xmas I've not had a console in the house only PC's so I've not boned up on any of them. The kids and missus though bugged me to get a Wii so now they have one of those with a bunch of games. Gotta say I'm loving PC games even more after seeing some of the abysmal crap they are passing off over at Nintendo.:o

[Reece]

I'm all for having some sort of hardware chips incorporated into motherboards, that would stop piracy then no other DRM/OSP/starforce etc would be needed, could be used for all games,:yep: as long as it stopped there, just imagine if every bit of software used it windows and all, you'd spend half the day feeding in disks!!:damn:

[danlisa]

Cool. Gotta link to something on the patent? Sounds like a cool way of keeping everything kosher.

Gotta say I'm loving PC games even more after seeing some of the abysmal crap they are passing off over at Nintendo.:o

Ninty is tosh! End of.:) Good and enjoyable games but bad system.

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100037068#ixzz0feEg2cT4

Good luck.:haha: The most understandable section is the Brief Summary.

[danlisa]

I'm all for having some sort of hardware chips incorporated into motherboards, that would stop piracy then no other DRM/OSP/starforce etc would be needed, could be used for all games,:yep:

Yes, that is the best solution BUT it requires EVERY mobo manufacturer, OS designer (ahem, Windows) and games designer to subscribe to the same format and policy. I can NEVER see PC games going this way, the 3 main involved parties will never agree.

First and foremost, who will manage the security keys and implement their alterations, as the only way this system will work is by dynamic encryption key updates and certificate policy changes.

[CaptainHaplo]

I have to agree with the premise that the poll is flawed. What pirate would admit it - even anonomously? With that said, I think the vast majority of regulars are legit owners, and the DRM/OSP debate in the SH5 thread demonstrates it. If those of us incensed by the copy protection were pirates, we wouldn't care, because it will be "cracked". But we do care, because we want to use our cash to support what we believe in. That is why I am disappointed that I will have to wait till SH5 gets unlocked by UBI before I can play it.

As for Neal's comment on SH4 and its piracy "easter egg", I would note that if memory serves, the majority of people who did ask about the "no eyes" thing were not regular, establishd members, but mostly were newer folks who found a site that might have good info on the game. I could be wrong on that, but its what I recall thinking at the time.

[Reece]

As for Neal's comment on SH4 and its piracy "easter egg", I would note that if memory serves, the majority of people who did ask about the "no eyes" thing were not regular, establishd members, but mostly were newer folks who found a site that might have good info on the game. I could be wrong on that, but its what I recall thinking at the time.I had an idea that it was proved that even legit owners were having this problem, I never actually did, I had a problem with SecuRom in that half the time it wouldn't recognize the DVD, after restarting the game and trying again it would work, I think due to the many problems people were having is why UBI decided to drop the disk check!:yep:
@ Danlisa, yes I suppose there would be too many problems, one thing, if you couldn't play a game without the chips installed all manufacturers would install them or people wouldn't buy them.

[NeonSamurai]

Locking this thread down for review.