Type VII.....

[cappy70]

"Best of the Best",,,just quoting 'Top Ten' subs on Military channel today.:salute::yeah::yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

Yep. That's why they lost so many of them.

[V.C. Sniper]

Yep. That's why they lost so many of them.
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

[frau kaleun]

But there were more of them to start with. Because they were so awesome.

YOU WILL PRY MY LOVE OF THE VIIC FROM MY COLD DEAD... er... HEART!

I think they specified the VIIC in the show he's referring to. IIRC what put it over the top was its (in their opinion) superb combination of so many of the things they considered when doing the rankings (maneuverability, durability, etc.) and most especially what they referred to as the "fear factor."

Meaning that, in its heyday during the early years of the BoA, it inspired more fear in more people (justifiably or otherwise) than any other class of sub before or since. And they were talking not just about the military and merchant seamen but the civilian population as well.

(But of course if they're going to do a show like that for popular consumption you also have to consider the fact that when you say "submarine" the image that pops into the head of the average person is mostly likely a u-boat and probably a VIIC.)

[SteamWake]

To quote Mr. Churchill 'Our greatest fear' :03:

[Jimbuna]

To quote Mr. Churchill 'Our greatest fear' :03:

In the only theatre of war that existed from the day war was declared until the day of the surrender announcement (war with Germany).

[bigboywooly]

In the only theatre of war that existed from the day war was declared until the day of the surrender announcement (war with Germany).

Thought ended in 43 :hmmm:

Oh wait

[Sailor Steve]

I have nothing against loving the Type VII. I love 'em myself. But quoting a TV show to support a claim? Those shows have a long history (pardon the pun) of having droves of experts give them nothing but bad ratings.

Back when I was a regular poster on the old Warships1 (now Navweaps) boards it was a game everybody played to watch a show on the History channel and see who could spot the most 'blow-its' for each show. They never got it right.

So if a TV show telling you that anything was "The Best Of The Best" is your criterion for greatness, you lose before you're even out the gate.

[frau kaleun]

I have nothing against loving the Type VII. I love 'em myself. But quoting a TV show to support a claim?

Oh, I don't think the show "proved" in any way that this sub is/was "better" than that sub. I don't think it's possible to do that to everybody's satisfaction, because first of all you have to define "better" and even if that impossible task is managed you still end up comparing subs that were designed and built and used decades apart, and not necessarily for the same primary purpose.

So when I watched that show and saw the VIIC end up in the top slot there was a part of me that went "okay well I see what their criteria are, so maybe they've got a point" and another part of me that went "well of course it's #1 because it's the most recognizable sub in the popular consciousness."

And then of course another part of me went "YES YES YES I KNEW IT WOOHOO *fist pump* :rock:!!!!!11!!!!!1111!"

:O:

[MGR1]

The Type VII was succesful purely because the Germans standardised on that class and built a lot of them.

If you build a lot of something, then the law of averages comes in to play.;)

As the vast majority of the U-Boatwaffe was equipped with the VII, then most of the tonnage was sunk by crews with that type of boat.

Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised that the vast majority of Japanese shipping was sunk by crews serving in a Gato.

My 2p.

Mike.:)

[FIREWALL]

Thought ended in 43 :hmmm:

Oh wait

Yeah ! Ubisofts rewrite and version of history. :haha:

[frau kaleun]

As the vast majority of the U-Boatwaffe was equipped with the VII, then most of the tonnage was sunk by crews with that type of boat.

Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised that the vast majority of Japanese shipping was sunk by crews serving in a Gato.


Yes but my VIIC has Jürgen Prochnow in it. :smug:

[ReFaN]

Yeah ! Ubisofts rewrite and version of history. :haha:

Myself i think the U boat war ended in 1943, i wouldnt want to play a game where i would have a 90% chance of dying traversing the Bay of Biscay, and a another 10% dying in the middle of the atlantic because of aircraft.

[oscar19681]

Yes but my VIIC has Jürgen Prochnow in it. :smug:

Or even better my type VIIC has ME in it!

[frau kaleun]

Or even better my type VIIC has ME in it!

Or better yet, me and Jürgen Prochnow.

I'm not saying I'd just give him the white cap entirely... but I might let him wear it once in a while. ;)

Plus, when appropriate, he can do all my cursing in German for me. He's so much better at it.

[MGR1]

Nah, give me Erich Topp!

or Kretschmer.

or Prien.

or......

:arrgh!:

Mike.;)

[frau kaleun]

Lol, SH3 Commander gave me Otto Kretschmer for a bootsmann once.

Seemed like a nice chap, although I can't say I got to know him very well. He didn't talk much.

[Hartmann]

VII was a good submarine but lack of firepower, range, and endurance.

Also there was a decisive difference compared with U.S submarines, Radar :ping:, they can know the position heading and range of enemy planes making the things a lot easier .

to sum up german submarines were good in hardware while us submarines were very good in electronics and enough good in hardware ,24 torpedos in iternal reloads is a big difference

[frau kaleun]

Oh, please. Don't let's muddy the water with facts.

:O:

[Sailor Steve]

He didn't talk much.
I'm trying so hard to think of a witty comeback that still wouldn't be too obvious, and it's just not happening.:dead:

[Sledgehammer427]

I'm trying so hard to think of a witty comeback that still wouldn't be too obvious, and it's just not happening.

:rotfl2:
you guys are too much

[Heretic]

The Type VII is the archetype. It wasn't the best performer but if you had to pick one sub to represent "submarine warfare in WWII" , you'd be hard pressed to pick a more representative one.

[Sailor Steve]

The Type VII is the archetype. It wasn't the best performer but if you had to pick one sub to represent "submarine warfare in WWII" , you'd be hard pressed to pick a more representative one.
That, I can completely agree with.

[frau kaleun]

:sign_yeah:

[cappy70]

What did I do? This posting took "off":D.....(just came back to board a little while back)

I just was so surprised myself to see this VII be #1 on the list over all these subs,( I do know these technical "facts" from History/Military channel stand for different "views":salute: approach, like calling Luftwaffe mighty) , but I think it was more the intimidation factor at that point in time, than any aspects of judgement on the sub per si as a technical wunder vs. all these other subs.

[Jimbuna]

The Type VII is the archetype. It wasn't the best performer but if you had to pick one sub to represent "submarine warfare in WWII" , you'd be hard pressed to pick a more representative one.

....and for that reason it is also the most recogniseable (not taking into account different variants of course).

[frau kaleun]

but I think it was more the intimidation factor at that point in time

Bingo.

[pythos]

If Donitz had had the number of boats he wanted, the war would have taken a much different course. You all do know there was only 40 operational U boats during the "happy times". Think about if there was the 300 or so Donitz had wanted.

The type VII is the representation of what the submarine was capable of when it came to destroying the enemies ability to fight. The allied version of this is definitely the Gato class. The American fleet boats were instrumental in grinding Japan's making ability to a near halt.

When someone says "submarine" it is indeed the type VII that pops in my mind, followed closely by the Gato. Never does the modern Nuclear boat initially pop in my mind, it is always the older Diesel electric numbers.