Problems with water surface animation graphics

[jugger]

Hi everybody,

I just installed Silent Hunter 4 gold, played it some and noticed a strange graphics problem concerning the water surface graphic when moving. When I start a mission and go to tower, the water seems to be just ok when the submarine is in no motion. However, if I move mouse around or give speed to boat, water surface starts to move strangely, maybe I would call it 'stuttering'. It is a bit hard to explain but think of holding a transparent piece of plastic with a bit inconsistent and bumpy surface in front of you, and then moving it in different directions and looking at water thru it. So it is like having some strange filter applied to the water graphics when in movement. Effect is most notable at water near to sub/camera, and faster the boat travels, the bigger effect it has.

here are some facts about my conf. and what I have tried:
Win XP SP2 32-bit, Core duo 3.0Ghz, 4G Ram, Geforce 8800GTS 640MB

- I am using SH4 1.5 vanilla with no mods installed
- I have tried to change all of the in-game graphical settings, first having all of them on and then off, and also something in-between. No effect...
- I have tried Nhancer and used settings recommended in another thread at this forum, and also other custom settings. No help

I will check if I can make a video out of this since it is bit hard to explain and because a screenshot wouldn't show anything strange as the problem can be seen only in motion.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[jugger]

Few things to add:
- I have updated my Nvidia driver to the latest but it didn't help
- I am aware of the "texture flickering" problem which is common with Nvidia 8800 cards when playing SH3/SH4, however this is not like it(so anti-aliasing or anisotropic filtering won't help with this...)

SH3 doesn't have this strange effect

[AVGWarhawk]

Might I suggest a environment mod that address the water? I suspect this is what you need. Look up top at the download section (has yellow now open button).

[IRISH4Life]

Jugger,

AVG WARHAWK is right. I think that you need an enviornment mod. I installed a supermod, trigger Maru and the water graphics seemed pretty dull. So I added the Pacific Enviornment 4 and now my water is beautiful. I cannot guarantee that this is the best environment mod for the TRIGGER MARU or FLEETBOAT (both supermods are awesome) as well as Enviornment mods (the other is Real Environment, I was told it is a newer environment) but no matter what it improved my graphics.

I am running on a Quad core 2, Q6600 2.4 ghz and a GeForce Nvidia 8800 GT 512 mg with 4 g of ram. My graphics are beautiful.

Hope you are using the mod installer (A MUST) for ease of installation and removal.

Allows you to try different options easily. I plan to add 1.5 tomorrow the graphics seem to really pop. Will upgrade the REAL FLEETBOAT and the TRIGGER MARU files to the 1.5 as well.

Hope that helps.

IRISH4life

[AVGWarhawk]

Just watch your mods. RFB 2.0 and TMO stand alone. Do not mix and match them. Then, if you use Run Silent Run Deep (RSRD) for traffic make sure you use the correct mod file for RFB and TMO. Read the first post of each mod. Pick the one you like and stick with it as far as what will work that that mod and what will not. You can always run two installs of SH4 thus running both mods. You have two careers going though. Up to you. Most important is each mod does not conflict with other mod.

Yes, use JSGME for mod installation. Just the greatest tool for mods in the world. :rock:

[jugger]

Thanks for your tips, I installed Trigger Maru, but still the same strange effect. It is less noticeable now thanks to a darker color of the new water graphics(looks very good in other respects). I actually have a dual boot system so I installed SH4 v1.3(without U-boat missions) for Vista which also has different Nvidia drivers but again, same effect...

I don't know, have to think about this some more...

[IRISH4Life]

I am sure that AVGWARHAWK is completely correct. But with that said my it worked beautifully for me. I went from a flat (looking) dull sea to a beautiful blue wave environment. It was a night and day change. Again AVGWARHAWK is correct but I intstalled the Trigger 1st and the added the Pacific environment 4 1-6 (or whatever, I am not at home with that computer to make sure) It i am sure took overwrote some of Triggers files but it was for the better on the environment side. ??

AVGWARHAWK is one of the experts his info has helped me and maybe I just stumbled on the ability to use the mod together by accident (ignorance). but it worked.

Thanks,

IRISH4life

[jugger]

i am downloading Pacific Environments 4 now. I will first uninstall Maru and then try PE4 to see if it has any effect. However i am being afraid that this is related to my Nvidia card having some incompatibility issues or something... I will report back when I have tried PE4.

Thanks again for everybody.

[jugger]

No luck, still the same effect... Oh well, have to get some sleep now. I'll check tomorrow if I can put video on Youtube about this.

[Lognoreng]

Try the things posted in
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128517

I played the game with max AA/AF set from the nvidia settings. And i do remember some water "stutter" It looks almost like if the texture is sliding around, this also seemed to effect the hazy steam coming off the water sometimes, it just warped around in the sky looking really wierd. Using the above settings made my game look ALOT better.. So give it a go, might just be the thing.

Running GTX 295 with 191.07 drivers

Hope it helps

[AVGWarhawk]

Also, you must go into My Documents and find the SH4 folder. Inside is the saves. There are rich saved games and saved games folders. You will need to delete these. Sorry but your career is gone and you have to start over. About 2 years ago Leovampire who started working over the environment/water mods found that deleteing these two files with in the Sh4 folder makes the mods work better. Once you have done this the mods should work as designed. The flashing of the water has been a bug since the game came out but it was reduced quite a bit with the environment mods. Some say the water looks like jello. I have not experience this. I have experience the lower left and right hand corners of the screen as you are looking straight ahead at the bow the water has a strange look. That is a camera issue if I'm not mistake. But again, some of the mods tinker with the camera and reduced that issue for me. Now, we see Irish has the 8800 and a lot of folks have the 8800. The graphics look good for them. So, we just need to find what yours is up to. A screenshot would be great. Also, at the top of the forums is a thread for tweaking you card. Check that out and see if there is an answer there. What I find strange is TMO you say the environment does not look right. Ducimus worked the environment in TMO and looks good on my rig.

Before you do anything else. Deactivate all your mods. Go to MY Documents and find the SH4 folder. Open and find Rich Saved Games and Saved Games folder. Delete both. Do not worry, the game will make new ones. Now, go activate TMO and start your game. See how it looks. If still the same we will look elsewhere for the answer.

[Armistead]

Make sure your resolutions and hz are the same for the monitor and in the game..

[jugger]

Thanks for your answers.

I have managed to put up video on Youtube of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j9qhTJ5fRY

Quality is not the best but it clearly shows you what is going on, "driving on a jelly".

- I tried disabling mods, then deleted those two save-folders, enabled Trigger Maru but no difference

- Refresh rate is same in game setting and in windows settings (60Hz)

- I tried the setting suggested in that other forum thread with NHancer, no notable difference. But I will play some more with those settings if I could make something out from them

[jugger]

This is bit strange, I am not sure if changing settings from Nvidia panel OR from NHancer has any effect to graphics at all. Right now I'm running SH4 in windowed mode so I can change the settings at same time as I see the graphics, but not seeing any notable effects. Also tried to close and restart SH4 after changing settings but no notable effect. Same goes for SH3 too.

From NHancer I'm editing global settings since that should be the surest way to affect the game graphics. For AA I use "Override any application setting", also have tried that "enhance" setting.

My NVidia driver version is 196.21

[jugger]

One more thing, when boat is halted and if I pan camera with mouse left or right, there is not that strange effect. However if I pan it up/down, then the effect jumps in. Now if I have vsync disabled, I also get strange "line" which can be seen in sky graphics, but when I enable it, that line disapperars but the water effect doesn't. So I guess that vsync is working as supposed and I don't know if this problem has anything to do with vsync, but it definetely relates to camera movement when panning up/down. Now is that vertical or horizontal, I can't remember. I thing my head is gonna explode in a moment...

[Lognoreng]

I am using the profile way of applying Nhancer settings. Maybe as a last resort you could try to roll back the nvidia driver to an older version. Many of the new drivers is clearly not compatible with certain slighty older games. I cannot use anything newer than the driver i use, or empire total war doesnt work for instance. Also set att the AA/AF options in the NVIDIA panel to "application setting" or i think they will override Nhancer's settings. That's all i can think of :hmmm:

[jugger]

Lognoreng, could you tell which driver version you are using with your NVIDIA card? I might try to find that particular driver.

First I had a driver maybe about one year old, then I updated it but no change.

Link to the video that shows the problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j9qhTJ5fRY

[AVGWarhawk]

Thanks for your answers.

I have managed to put up video on Youtube of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j9qhTJ5fRY

Quality is not the best but it clearly shows you what is going on, "driving on a jelly".

- I tried disabling mods, then deleted those two save-folders, enabled Trigger Maru but no difference

- Refresh rate is same in game setting and in windows settings (60Hz)

- I tried the setting suggested in that other forum thread with NHancer, no notable difference. But I will play some more with those settings if I could make something out from them


I watched the video. To be sure my rig renders the water the same way...sometimes. Not all the time. I run a 9800. What does the water look like without your card having to handle all the vessels, aircraft and islands in that training school? My thinking is you card is having a time of it with animating the vessels, plane, clouds and water. The game is very graphic intensive. However, it would seem eveyone experiences this strange water every now and then. Sometimes I come out of high TC and my water is going the other direction. See, the water moves, not the sub. It gives the illusion that you, the sub, is making headway. See what your water looks like in the open ocean.

[jugger]

I watched the video. To be sure my rig renders the water the same way...sometimes. Not all the time. I run a 9800. What does the water look like without your card having to handle all the vessels, aircraft and islands in that training school? My thinking is you card is having a time of it with animating the vessels, plane, clouds and water. The game is very graphic intensive. However, it would seem eveyone experiences this strange water every now and then. Sometimes I come out of high TC and my water is going the other direction. See, the water moves, not the sub. It gives the illusion that you, the sub, is making headway. See what your water looks like in the open ocean.


I took my sub to the outer seas and lowered some detail. I'm getting 60+ fps now but this "jelly"-effect just remains the same. I actually rolled down my Nvidia drivers down to 173 or something, so they are pretty old. Anyhow now the NVIDIA panel settings seems to affect the games and SH3 looks much smoother with AA and AF added. However, as I suspected, it doesn't affect to this jelly-effect. Not positively, not negatively. Also the framerate doesn't seem to have any impact on this effect.

Well, the game is still definitely playable. I think I continue using Trigger Maru(or Environmental only) since it makes the effect harder to notice, thanks to the more detailed water effects.

[vickers03]

ATI cards are generally much more compatible
with older games than NVidia.
my ATI5850 has the well known infamous jelly water too, but only when moving the camera.

[Nisgeis]

It's a stock bug. It's because the normal map (the fine detail) for the waves isn't matched up to the wave geometry, so the fine details slides accross the coarse detail if the camera is moving. Going sideways is fine, forwards/backwards (up down if the camera is moving) isn't. I don't know of any fix. If you haven't noticed this - for God's sake don't look for it, because once you've seen it, you can't un-notice it!

[AVGWarhawk]

I remember that darn flashing being a nasty bug. Greaty reduced by some mods. The shakey water like we have here, yes I get it. But not all the time. Toying with TC helps if I recall. I had thought the camera moving reduced or increased this happening. You are right though, forget about it or you will focus all your time attempting to fix it or playing only to sit there looking at this water shake!


SH4 is a great game. The mods make it so much better. What SH4 could have been if the developers had 6 more months with it! :hmmm:

[jugger]

i hear ya, no point of paying any extra attention to it if there isn't any way to fix it. I didn't actually notice it at first, but after I did that's all I've been thinking about when playing the game. But not anymore, I hope. I will play around a bit with time compression and see if it has any effect.

Thanks for everybody helping me out with this, now gotta go and sink some ships. Or trying to learn to do so :salute:

[Jan Kyster]

Leovampire (rip) found the jelly water mostly appeared when you came out of (higher) TC. His tip was to use backspace (TC=1) and then press "-" to pause game for some seconds. That should enable the graphics engine to have a breather and thereby reduce/eliminate the jelly motion.

Personally haven't seen it in ages :hmmm: - using TMO 1.9 here btw.

[Armistead]

Doe's resetting the screen in game work...Be at a cam screen so you can see the water and hit Control-N...keeping in mind it resets the weather.

Are you near a port, as I see a tanker...That can happen a lot near port with lots of contacts, morese your docking base.

Try to head for open sea and hit cntl N. Overall it shouldn't happen much once you get out to sea, usually when that happens to me, it's the other ships and not me, but was they get in my range it's normal...gets bad I just reset the screen...being very careful for what weather effects I change.

I run a 295 and crank up the video card settings and it happens more, cut them back a tad, NP. Alt Tab out a lot can also cause it.

[AVGWarhawk]

I went and did a quick test. Coming out of high TC I get the water shimmy deal but not for long and I suspect the volumetric fog creates some of the issue as well. I'm running TMO only.