Convert this heretic

[Snow White Sorrow]

*saunters into the Western-styled bar of subsim.com*

So, lads (and lasses if any), what does SH5 offer me compared to my lovely SH3+GWX that doesn't need a Cray supercomputer to run?

There, I said it.

[onelifecrisis]

Personally I'm rather excited by the dynamic campaign. It looks promising.
Also even if the AI is the same as SH4 that'd still be a big improvement on the AI in SH3/GWX.
And there's the first person perspective.
And the graphics look nice (compared to SH3/GWX).

[Gunnodayak]

In fact, it will probably offer you less than SH3/GWX. No, it will surely offer you less. If I need eye candy graphics, I would play Crisis, I would not choose to play SH5 arcade style oriented game. Unfortunately, Silent Hunter series from the so-called "simulation" perspective is on its way down.
Ka-50 Black Shark is a simulation game, SH5 it isn't.

[Seafireliv]

You`ll need a permanent internt connection. Dunno if you see that as a bonus, but it`s certtainly new to previous Silent hunter games. UBI says it will save you having to worry about your CD and they`ll even look after your saves for you. And don`t worry if their servers go down or your net breaks, it`s worth waiting hours for it to pop back up whenever they sort it out. You can wait to play your singleplayer game, can`t you?

[evan82]

*saunters into the Western-styled bar of subsim.com*

So, lads (and lasses if any), what does SH5 offer me compared to my lovely SH3+GWX that doesn't need a Cray supercomputer to run?

There, I said it.
SH5 offers You better graphics? Maybe but not greatests, and with the elements of the arcade. Now we have all U-Boat interior. Yes but this is "unfinished model". Without about 50% of details.:o

Only type VII U-Boat is included in this game. Ok. Why not, but game end is in 1943. By the way. I think that the all 1943 year is included, and game end is not in the december 1942 :hmmm:.

Shortcuts in the periscope view are to small. Can I make them bigger? I didn't noticed to many food in the interior. Graphics of the interior is very simmilar to SH4:down:. And this strange effect of the "gelatine" in the uderwater view, +

...DRM system, and online gameplay with external saves on UBI server.

[Snow White Sorrow]

Oh dear, unfinished? I'm thinking Ubi made the wrong decision to rush the release of both SH 4 and 5!

Rather have one complete and fully featured game but I guess the industry these days requires flashy games, quick release time and leaving the modders to do the rest of the good work! Not good.

[evan82]

Rather have one complete and fully featured game but I guess the industry these days requires flashy games, quick release time and leaving the modders to do the rest of the good work! Not good.

This is the point.:yep::yep::yep:
Only money is important.

After 2005, 2006, all simulation games, war games etc. are to short and to flashy, and not realistic, without nice and realistic storyline. In MOH in these days is only 6 - 8 level max. In MOH Airborne for example, last two missions was to much unrealistic and stupid. Where is COD2, Shelshock nam67, SOCOM 3, MOH Frontline?

Where is the good historical mood and storyline?

[Gunnodayak]

The saddest thing is that I KNOW that they were capable to do the game of their lives with this SH5, but they chose not to do that, but only to make profit.

[THE_MASK]

The devs said you will recognise the file structure and we are getting the same tools as they use apperantly . So i guess that there summary was to make a game that suits the mass market and at the same time allow modders to make the game a simulation like SH3 . I can see much better graphics , and being able to have the whole uboat to explore is awesome . Plus a lot of things have been added if you read the questions and answers by the devs . So you see you can have your SH3/4 and enjoy those or play a diffrent style of sub game by playing SH5 out of the box or wait for modders to turn it into SH3.5 .

[Snow White Sorrow]

To be fair, the designers have to earn a living, and the industry has simply become "like that".

Gone are the days where parents sat down with their kids to talk about military history and how the nation was founded. Teens these days just want movie style action hero stuff, leading to dumbed down military games with no gameplay value whatsoever.

And with that, I'm only really interested in the classic games from 2005 and earlier.

That includes everything from tactical games (JA, Silent Storm), flight sims (IL-2) and just about anything else I'm interested in including MMORPGs. I don't see that magic old world charm that transforms mediocre, flawed concepts into brilliant cult followings, from the newer releases.

I feel the automotive industry has headed the same way a long while ago.

[Gunnodayak]

That includes everything from tactical games (JA, Silent Storm), flight sims (IL-2) and just about anything else I'm interested in including MMORPGs. I don't see that magic old world charm that transforms mediocre, flawed concepts into brilliant cult followings, from the newer releases.

I feel the automotive industry has headed the same way a long while ago.
Probably the only chance that remains is the open source games, because with all the dedication and ability of the modders, they can't turn a Trabant into a Mercedes. At the most, they can make a tuned Trabant, which is better than nothing, anyway.

[Snow White Sorrow]

A lot of OS games are great, provided you can stand the waiting time. Others like Live for Speed went commercial anyway and lost their pioneering appeal to commercialism. Been waiting ages for an update to that nice racing sim.

Oh, your ricer Trabant analogy reminds me - there are a lot of classic games with die-hard modders converting mediocre stuff into very good products with huge expansion packs. POTC is one.

Like SH3 with GWX, their hard work tends to outshine later commercial releases in the genre but yes, I agree they are more jury rigged than professionally finished.

GWX is also unique that the developers made a very pretty and useful manual.

[onelifecrisis]

Hmm, seems I missed the point of the thread. Lemme try again.

http://www.dreamseamer.com/image_manager/attributes/image/image_5/40003578_8616429_thumbnail.jpg

[Seafireliv]

In MOH Airborne for example, last two missions was to much unrealistic and stupid.

yea, i remember that. I was actually really enjoying MOH. the sounds were great, the fighting was quite realistic with the Germans fighting back and even counter-attacking at times. I was even prepared to take the silly custom weapons.

But when all of a sudden this German in a gas mask stepped off the train and took multiple MG without flinching and blew several marines away, i was like `What the hell?`

I still played the game to the end, but I felt that fantasy Nazi really blew what might`ve been a great game.

I can imagine the kids in class today, "Oh yea, and the nazis had these cool super SS stormtroopers in gas masks who carried MG42s and super protected from MG bullets and it was really hard to kill them!"

[Snow White Sorrow]

I can imagine the kids in class today, "Oh yea, and the nazis had these cool super SS stormtroopers in gas masks who carried MG42s and super protected from MG bullets and it was really hard to kill them!"

To think they can happily figure out every game exploit and unlock every hidden secret but reply "its too complicated, sorry" when you show them how to properly work a TDC.

-

Oh and lovely gown from onelifecrisis! :3

[Gunnodayak]

GWX is also unique that the developers made a very pretty and useful manual.

Actually GWX made me fall in love with Silent Hunter 3. I couldn't play the stock game (in my opinion it was simply unplayable, even knowing that some will not have the same opinion) before the modders put their mark. But still, even in that magnificent manual, it is written that there are some features that cannot be corrected from the stock game.
I have SH4 also, but I cannot play it. Even with Operation Monsun. I appreciate a lot the work of the modders of that project, and when I mean "a lot", it's exactly what I am trying to say. But it's not as good as GWX. And that's why I am sorry SH4 will rest forever on my shelf, GWX4 was the most expected thing for me, because I knew from the beginning that SH5 won't be the desired game for me. I knew it because the direction "more arcade/less sim" was obvious just comparing SH3 (2005) and SH4 (2007).
The modders are the real heroes, not the developers. The modders are cleaning the garbage left by others, and they are doing all they can do at their best for free, from their hearts. To us.

[evan82]

yea, i remember that. I was actually really enjoying MOH. the sounds were great, the fighting was quite realistic with the Germans fighting back and even counter-attacking at times. I was even prepared to take the silly custom weapons.

True.

But when all of a sudden this German in a gas mask stepped off the train and took multiple MG without flinching and blew several marines away, i was like `What the hell?`

I still played the game to the end, but I felt that fantasy Nazi really blew what might`ve been a great game.
All artilery tower from last mission was also strange a little. Yes. German SS elite soldiers in the gas masks were very bad idea also for me.:shifty:

Springfield + grenade was good on this creatures.:D

Sorry for offtop.:oops:

[Snow White Sorrow]

It does sound as bad as the Panzerkleins from Silent Storm, which are more or less steampunk powered armour suits.

Their appearance ruined the suspension of belief imposed by a more or less authentic and very detailed WW2 infantry combat game. From the developer's perspective however, they probably couldn't add actual historical armoured vehicles due to the limited scale of the game (game environment is very small and focuses on individual operatives' actions), which would be far too large and powerful.

[flakmonkey]

Hows about an actual story rather than just a series of randomized patrols, it may have moved slightly away from the hardcore sim but it will be interesting to see it you actually get attached to your crew and boat in a way you never could in sh3/4.
Im kind of looking forward to the change in gameplay just to see if it works, its like Call of Duty: Battle of the Atlantic.

[Sailor Steve]

GWX is also unique that the developers made a very pretty and useful manual.
Nope. NYGM had a great manual more than a year earlier. People locked into the GWX thing have never tried NYGM, LSH3 or WAC.

And SH4 has much the better platform, and some great mods, but is still waiting for those extra touches.

I keep saying that the reason SH5's campaign ends in 1943 is because the devs actually noticed that every single major supermod for SH3 and SH4 starts with the total junking of the campaign and a completely new one being created. When they don't have the resources to add all the research necessary to match that, what is the point of putting in a full campaign when you can create a new and different one that modders can play with all they want?

[Bilge_Rat]

I knew it because the direction "more arcade/less sim" was obvious just comparing SH3 (2005) and SH4 (2007).


Someone would have to explain this statement to me, stock SH3 and SH4 are the same in terms of game mechanic and "realism", although SH4 was prettier.

RFB and RSRDC now bring SH4 at least up to the level of SH3 NYGM, in terms of "realism".

Just speculating, but from what I have seen so far, SH5 should have at least the same features as stock SH3 and SH4, plus other features which members of this board have been asking for a long time, such as the ability to walk through the boat and AI wolfpacks, for instance. I have no doubt that in 2-3 years, modders will have SH5 up to the current level of SH4, in terms of realism.

SH5 may not be perfect, but let's face it, no one other than Ubisoft is still producing subsims and if the sales of SH5 are poor, there may never be a SH6 or another subsim...ever.

To me, it seems a no brainer to spend $50 to get another 3 years of playing a state-of-the-art subsim. That works out to what?..... $1.39 a month.....:hmmm:

[Heretic]

I don't see SH5 as a replacement for SHII/IV, at least initially. It has a different focus and, likely, a different gameplay. I'm sure I'll be playing both, as the mood strikes.

Down the road, as the add-on and mod situation becomes clearer, it may evolve into a replacement.

[Safe-Keeper]

So, lads (and lasses if any), what does SH5 offer me compared to my lovely SH3+GWX that doesn't need a Cray supercomputer to run?DRM.

Seriously, though, the answer is nothing. GWX is a masterpiece that no retail WWII submarine simulator can match.

I'm personally still buying SH5, but if you're happy with GWX, more power to you - feel free to stick with III until 5 is modded as heavily.

[Platapus]

http://www.dreamseamer.com/image_manager/attributes/image/image_5/40003578_8616429_thumbnail.jpg

O dire extremity
O state of living death
What dreadful silliness
All around me is dead and do I exist or am I but a statue?
Is this a vision?
Are these things real?
Alas I am bewildered!

See Mrs. Tedisco* I remembered your lecture on Ann Radcliffe!

*Mrs. Tedisco was one of my highschool English Lit teachers. A great teacher and incidentally one hot piece of a$$ too. :yep:

[ETR3(SS)]

O dire extremity
O state of living death
What dreadful silliness
All around me is dead and do I exist or am I but a statue?
Is this a vision?
Are these things real?
Alas I am bewildered!

See Mrs. Tedisco* I remembered your lecture on Ann Radcliffe!

*Mrs. Tedisco was one of my highschool English Lit teachers. A great teacher and incidentally one hot piece of a$$ too. :yep: Which is precisely why you remember all that.:har:

[Sailor Steve]

I have SH4 also, but I cannot play it. Even with Operation Monsun.
Can you explain exactly what it is that keeps it back? As far as I can see the only thing that GWX has the Op Monsun doesn't is the eye candy. OM is very advanced. Or maybe I'm missing something. And don't get me wrong - I was crushed when GWX4 got cancelled, because I like that extra touch.

The modders are the real heroes, not the developers. The modders are cleaning the garbage left by others, and they are doing all they can do at their best for free, from their hearts. To us.
On the other hand, without Dan and his team there would be no modders, no mods, and no SH3; so why don't we dis them a little more and maybe there won't be any more subsims to complain about.

[Rockin Robbins]

Beat to the punch by Sailor Steve. The modders/gods vs devs/bums stuff is very, very old and tired. It never rang true and stinks now because it is a rotting corpse.

[Heretic]

I always preferred NYGM to GWX, though I can't really say why. SHIII has gotten most of the love because it's been out longer and, I think, there was simply more interest in modding for the uboats than there was for the US subs. I imagine some folks just didn't feel motivated to do it all over again after the Uboat addon came out. Which is a shame, since there are a lot of improvements in the game engine.

TMO and RFB, I think, are every bit as good as the SHIII major mods. OM is getting close and is more remarkable, I think, since so much had to be done from scratch. OM's increasing maturity is what's finally brought me over from SHIII. I doubt I'll ever go back to SHIII again. I sure as heck got my money's worth out of it!

[Sailor Steve]

An excellent summation, heretic! I still play SH3 mainly because there is no SH4 Commander, and what it brings to the table is what keeps me alive.

But I play SH4 as well.

[Ducimus]

Also even if the AI is the same as SH4 that'd still be a big improvement on the AI in SH3/GWX.


I respectfully disagree. In terms of detection, stock AI on SH4 was the same as Sh3 with the added exception of thermal layers. In terms of hardcoded AI routines, SH3 was much better in IMO.


I have SH4 also, but I cannot play it. Even with Operation Monsun. I appreciate a lot the work of the modders of that project, and when I mean "a lot", it's exactly what I am trying to say. But it's not as good as GWX.
This may come as a shock to some, but i seriously doubt GWX could have done much better then other modders already have in SH4. IMO, SH4 as a platform, has some root level flaws that only an official patch can fix. No amount of modding - by anyone - can solve some of SH4's deeper issues.

Hows about an actual story rather than just a series of randomized patrols,
Campaign and mission scripting is acutaly one SH4's strongest points, if not the strongest point. Creating a story is entirely possible to do in SH4 within the confines of a mission, and squencing those missions, but its a crapton of work.

Nope. NYGM had a great manual more than a year earlier. People locked into the GWX thing have never tried NYGM, LSH3 or WAC.


People locked onto GWX, because they engaged in an amazingly successful forum PR campaign. Remember, NYGM and GWX were "at war" with each other. So getting people to overlook NYGM was the entire point. There are some aspects such as AI sensors, and submarine physics that are better in NYGM then GWX. NYGM also had an intergrated periscope TDC before GWX 1.03 was even publshed. And unless im mistaken, the sinking model GWX uses was originally inspired from NYGM's version. Im not saying its the same now, im sure its not, but NYGM did come out with the first sinking model and everyone else sort of built upon that. A few years ago, you'd NEVER hear me admit any of this publicly, as i was neck deep in the mod war shennaingans myself, and on the side of GWX.

The sad thing in all of this, is the because of petty rivalry, and bickering, the end user and the community was ultimatly robbed of a "supermod" that, would have/could have eclipsed everything they currently use had the talent behind both been able to put aside their differences and combine the best of what both supermods have to offer.