Oh-fical olympics thread [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

nikimcbee

02-15-10, 08:59 PM

I'll roll out my standard winter olympics complaint. And yes, I've been on sport's talk radio with this AND both hosts agreed with me.:yeah:

Why do they have women's hockey as a olympic sport? Really now, there are only 2 decent teams: the US and Canada. All of the other teams suck.:yep: Where's the sport in this, all they (US/Canada) have to do is get off the plane and one of them is getting the gold. They should just have the US and the Canadian team play each other head to head 7 times, winner take all. Then let the other teams play each other as they are mostly on the same skill level. I would argue the demand-development-skilled players of women's hockey in North America is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher than Europe (and the Chinese women that are drafted into hockey by the state).:|\\

Plus, I'd even argue that women's hockey is pretty d&mn boring if you ask me, and yes I've seen a bunch of matches. It's like watching a peewee hocky match.

Highbury

02-15-10, 11:21 PM

I was watching most of the snowboard cross and Mike Robertson came oh so close to getting gold. Congrats to Seth Wescott for his come from behind win. Pretty exciting event to watch.:rock:

That was a great race. I think Robertson was playing it a bit safe once he got some room, and Wescott was amazingly fast at the end. Congrats to him! :up:

Why do they have women's hockey as a olympic sport? Really now, there are only 2 decent teams: the US and Canada. All of the other teams suck.:yep: Where's the sport in this, all they (US/Canada) have to do is get off the plane and one of them is getting the gold.....

Well it is still a developing sport. Men's hockey was the same in the Olympics early on, and still can be when some of the weaker teams come up against the NHL-stacked teams.

Most Goals, One Team, One Game (Pre-War Era)
33 – Canada, vs. Switzerland, 33-0, 1924
30 – Canada, vs. Czechoslovakia, 30-0, 1924
29 – USA, vs. Switzerland, 29-0, 1920
Most Goals, One Team, One Game (Modern Era)
31 – USA, vs. Italy, 31-1, 1948
23 – USA, vs. Poland, 23-4, 1948
23 – Sweden, vs. Italy, 23-0, 1948
23 – Canada, vs. Austria, 23-0, 1956

If there are no major tournaments to aspire to, the other countries will never develop as they did in Men's. Look how good the Soviets became when the Olympics was the only thing they could aspire to.

I do agree with you about the entertainment value, but boring sports have always been allowed in the Olympics.

ETR3(SS)

02-15-10, 11:26 PM

WTS snow to Canada for Olympics, $50000 a truck load.:har:

Torvald Von Mansee

02-15-10, 11:40 PM

Well, here are some of the sports I find interesting, in no particular order:

bobsled (2 and 4)
biathlon
cross country skiing
ski-jumping (one of my cousins is a couch!!)
figure skating
downhill skiing over various types
luge

Speaking of which:

http://www.ksl.com/emedia/slc/0/93/9382.jpg
http://multimedia.olympic.org/pic/hackl_gal_l_01.jpg

Um...yeah.

nikimcbee

02-16-10, 01:29 AM

Before the men's hockey starts, is it possible to see the entire match( is somebody broadcasting the entire game, not the ADD network version):shifty:

Dowly

02-16-10, 02:17 AM

OneToughHerring

02-16-10, 02:24 AM

Wooot! Lions start their hockey tomorrow! :rock: (Well, the gals started it already, but meh :O:)

I'm hoping to see Ruutu to give a biiig welcome back hug to Jagr. :DL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAZIMkNMTCw

Love the retaliation by the Czechs. Not a big Ruutu-fan myself.

The greatest moments in Finnish ice hockey history 1986-2007. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55BI0vL9v-I)

Check out some nice goals against Finland. My favourite is Saarinen's deciding goal into an own empty net. :D

Highbury

02-16-10, 05:14 AM

Before the men's hockey starts, is it possible to see the entire match( is somebody broadcasting the entire game, not the ADD network version):shifty:

Depends where you are I guess. I get them all live, but the NBC coverage has been odd to say the least.

I have tickets to the Canada - Norway game tomorrow. I am pretty sure it won't be much of a matchup lol, but it was the only Team Canada game I could get tickets too. They had a lottery system for tickets, and if you won they were still very expensive. I took a pass on Opening Ceremony tickets when the only ones I could get were $1100 each :o

Dowly

02-16-10, 05:33 AM

@OTH

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/Finnish_Ferret/middle_finger-391.gif

ReFaN

02-16-10, 06:02 AM

was hoping to see bulgaria in OS tbh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGh6-CzKT-A

Vs canada it would be awesome :P

OneToughHerring

02-16-10, 06:16 AM

A trip down memory lane of olympic hockey: Pavel Bure vs. Finland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL_p_kMMc5E). He was fast. :o

Interesting also that Finland is still relying on Selänne and Koivu as they did so long ago. :-?

nikimcbee

02-17-10, 01:00 AM

My question for the day?
Why does Norway suck at hockey?
Sweden can play.
Finland can play.
...but Norway?:hmmm::haha:

nikimcbee

02-17-10, 02:24 AM

http://www.icejerseys.com/images/olympics/russia_2006_jersey_big.jpg

Highbury

02-17-10, 04:41 AM

My question for the day?
Why does Norway suck at hockey?
Sweden can play.
Finland can play.
...but Norway?:hmmm::haha:

Well that makes it seem as though Finland and Sweden are on the same level, which they are not. I would say Sweden is in the A Pool, Finland in the B Pool and Norway in C. Although I can tell you that standing around at the first intermission tonight in the arena, nobody felt that the starting goalie for Norway was a C class player.

Did anyone see the Women's Boarder Cross today? It was the best display of sportsmanship I have seen so far at these games. To see the Silver and Bronze winners hugging each other at the end of the race was great, then seeing the Bronze winner revving up the crowd for the Gold winner.. outstanding stuff. That's what the Olympics should be like. :yeah:

In good news, it is cold enough for a bit of ground ice at sea level here tonight, but on the bad side.. projected temperatures for the next few days are close to the usual June average...... what are the odds of having the warmest Feb ever recorded while hosting the Winter Olympics :shifty:

mako88sb

02-17-10, 06:41 AM

Yeah great race although maybe not quite as exciting to watch as the mens final. Once Maelle got far enough ahead, she pretty well had it wrapped up for most of the race. I guess somebody buried a looney on the course and it seemed to work as Canadians weren't expected to medal this event.

Bad luck with the weather although we had the same issues here for the 88 Calgary Olympics. Some times, those warm chinook winds can be pretty strong and we just so happened to get one for a good part of those 16 days. Heck, I was working construction back in Jan & Feb of 82 or 83 and we had chinook after chinook roll in for those 2 months. We were at a balmy +5 to +10 C and never got below -5 C at night for the whole time when were usually in the -15 to -25 C range.

nikimcbee

02-17-10, 02:16 PM

the glitch games:dead:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100217/D9DTLTQ00.html

Highbury

02-17-10, 03:33 PM

Yeah there have been alot of problem, when people start comparing it to Atlanta you know it is bad.

They have made major planning mistakes. Transportation being the biggest. Alot of things that article point out have nothing to do with planning, or are not legitimate points.

They mention bringing a Zamboni in from Calgary. People seem to think that means there is not any spare ice cleaners on hand in the Vancouver area.. there are literally hundreds. Unfortunately they can't just use any Zamboni. Contractually to the IOC, they have to use one of the brand new Olympia emission-free ones. Those are still in short supply.

Cancelled tickets... that is a weather issue. Do organizers plan weather? Vancouver is getting temperature averages for June... The amount of skiing delays still is less then Nogano.

As for the Luge.. that is a tragic event, but the few people throwing blame around don't seem to get how it works. A host city does not build a course then the world shows up and they say "here it is!" :nope: The host city designates a site, then the International Luge community comes in and designs and builds the course. It was built by the same people as the Salt Lake course, and had over 7000 runs in top level International competition before the accident. The fact that it made it all the way to the Olympics with obvious safety flaws is a failing of the International Luge community.

AngusJS

02-17-10, 06:51 PM

The biggest mistake for me was moving the women's luge start down to the junior starting line. It really screwed up the starts for a lot of lugers, forcing them to immediately negotiate a curve at low speed, and it seemed pretty pointless - the women wouldn't be going as fast as the men, so where was the safety issue?

And I really wish NBC would cut the fluff pieces and quit trying to find "stories" to shove down our throats. The less time they spend on that, the more time they can spend on actually showing the events (so maybe we could see more than 5 men's downhill runs).

nikimcbee

02-18-10, 02:12 PM

What happen to the great Russian sport's machine?
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/medals

nikimcbee

02-18-10, 02:15 PM

Wow, I'm on the cutting edge of sports analysis:
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/ice_hockey/news?slug=jp-hockey021410&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

:yeah:

Highbury

02-19-10, 02:17 AM

If there were medals given out for best uniforms of the athletes the Gold, in my opinion, would be unanimously given to the US Snowboarding team for the Burton US 2010 Olympic Uniform (http://www.highsnobiety.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Burton-2010-Olympic-US-Uniforms-00.jpg). The pants printed to look like faded, ripped jeans (they really are snow pants.. hard to tell!) and the plaid tops... from someone who used to play in the snow on that very same Cypress mountain I think that those by far capture essence of boarding better then any other. Cudos to the designer. The boarders from every other country are jealous. :salute:

Don't gloat too much though America.. you have Johnny Weir (http://media.buffalonews.com/smedia/2010/02/17/07/Vancouver_Olympics_Figure_Skating.embedded.prod_af filiate.50.jpg) too! :har:

It was also nice to see Peetu Piiroinen from Finland take an unexpected Silver in the half-pipe, anyone who knows the sport knows that you can only really fight for Silver, Shaun White can't be touched.

Don't even want to talk hockey. I didn't breathe for 45 min tonight. Most of Canada didn't. (Props to Hiller though, great goaltending!)

TarJak

02-19-10, 05:15 AM

Woot First Aussie Gold at these games!:woot:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/winter-olympics/bright-nails-combination-to-soar-into-snowboard-history-20100219-olay.html?autostart=1

Dowly

02-19-10, 06:57 AM

Wow, the Swiss put up a fight against Canada (in hockey). Good game. :yeah:

ReallyDedPoet

02-19-10, 07:43 AM

Wow, the Swiss put up a fight against Canada (in hockey). Good game. :yeah:

They always play us tough :yep:

Nice to see this happen:Russia\Slovaks (http://www.ctvolympics.ca/hockey/news/newsid=46336.html#slovakia+upset+russia+shootout)

Dowly

02-19-10, 08:09 AM

They always play us tough :yep:

Nice to see this happen:Russia\Slovaks (http://www.ctvolympics.ca/hockey/news/newsid=46336.html#slovakia+upset+russia+shootout)

Darn, missed that game. :-?

ReallyDedPoet

02-19-10, 08:16 AM

Good site for updates\schedule, etc:Here (http://www.ctvolympics.ca/hockey/results-and-schedules/index.html)

Happy Times

02-19-10, 08:28 AM

Well that makes it seem as though Finland and Sweden are on the same level, which they are not. I would say Sweden is in the A Pool, Finland in the B Pool and Norway in C.

Are you serious? :doh:
Who was in the final game in the World Cup of 2004 and in Torino Olympics 2006?
Oh yeah, Finland.:yeah:

Highbury

02-19-10, 12:34 PM

Are you serious? :doh:
Who was in the final game in the World Cup of 2004 and in Torino Olympics 2006?
Oh yeah, Finland.:yeah:

That's right. Sweden is always a contender (A pool). Finland can scrape into the finals if other big teams have a bad showing at a tournament (B Pool) and Norway never makes the final (C Pool). :yeah:

Sweden have a few Golds medals.. how many have Finland got? This isn't an insult, just a fact. Don't take it personal.. my country sucks at soccer.

Happy Times

02-19-10, 01:40 PM

That's right. Sweden is always a contender (A pool). Finland can scrape into the finals if other big teams have a bad showing at a tournament (B Pool) and Norway never makes the final (C Pool). :yeah:

Sweden have a few Golds medals.. how many have Finland got? This isn't an insult, just a fact. Don't take it personal.. my country sucks at soccer.
Scrape?!:doh:
Did you watch those tournaments?
The games Finland played?
In Torino they played the best hockey in the tournament, something many non Finns agree.
You can look at the rosters and stats and hand over the medals beforehand with your attitude.
But that would miss the whole point about it being a SPORT and a TEAMSPORT!
I do take it as an insult that you say it is all down to luck when Finland does well.
I checked the medals from the Miracle on Ice year 1980, in no particular order.
USA 1 gold 1 silver
Canada 1 gold 2 silver
Sweden 2 gold 3 bronze
Czechkoslovakia 1 silver 1 bronze
Czech Republic 1 gold 3 bronze
Soviet Union 2 gold 1 silver
Russia 2 silver 3 bronze
Finland 2 silver 2 bronze

And if we look stats from Nagano 1998 when the NHL players came to play, Finland does even better on the comparison.

nikimcbee

02-19-10, 02:26 PM

wow, sunday is the mother of all rivalry game days.:D

So, if finland loses to sweden, Dowly must....[insert bet here]

nikimcbee

02-19-10, 02:27 PM

Good site for updates\schedule, etc:Here (http://www.ctvolympics.ca/hockey/results-and-schedules/index.html)

great link:yeah:

Highbury

02-19-10, 02:38 PM

I think it is pretty safe to call the US, Canada, Russia and Sweden top-flight teams. So with that in mind lets look at Finland's Olympic record.

1952 - Finished in 7th place
1956 - Did not participate
1960 - Finished in 7th place
1964 - Finished in 6th place
1968 - Finished in 5th place
1972 - Finished in 5th place
1976 - Finished in 4th place
1980 - Finished in 4th place
1984 - Finished in 6th place
1988 - Won silver medal
1992 - Finished in 7th place
1994 - Won bronze medal
1998 - Won bronze medal
2002 - Finished in 6th place
2006 - Won silver medal

So no Gold, and medals in 88, 94, 98 and 06.

88 and 94 is the Pr-NHL era of US and Canadian junior players against Soviet professionals. Canada was beat by the Finns in 88, cudos :yeah:

In '94 Finland got a win over the Team Russia of post-Soviet Russia (not a bad team however, they got gold in 92). That was a good game too. Sweden and Canada were playing for Gold. (Due credit is given here, but remember Canada and US were using college and AHL players)

NHL players era (ie, when it really matters for the big teams).
1998, 3 of the big teams played badly. The US, Sweden and Canada did not medal. With that gap of talented teams, Finland got a bronze.

2006 Again, the US and Canada played poorly and did not medal. (Canada lost 2 -0 to the Swiss!) You did get the Silver, which of course is awarded for a loss, just as Canada's was in 94, but it does take good play to get to that game.

I have yet to see where Finland has been a top flight team. Success has depended on poor play of other nations more then great play by Finland. Again this is not an insult, Finland has some great players (I have a Sami Salo jersey :up:) but they are not a top level team.. yet.

Dowly

02-19-10, 02:55 PM

Success has depended on poor play of other nations more then great play by Finland.

And you could say that about any team. I mean, with your logic, the better team doesn't win, but the worse team loses. :) (I hope that was as confusing as your logic :haha:)

Platapus

02-19-10, 02:59 PM

Looks like US Women's Curling got the gold by defeating the Russian team.:salute:

TarJak

02-19-10, 05:54 PM

wow, sunday is the mother of all rivalry game days.:D

So, if finland loses to sweden, Dowly must....[insert bet here]
Oops Dowly drops the ball missing the joke opportunity...

Go to Stockholm Sweden and apologise to everyone he meets?:D

Highbury

02-19-10, 06:30 PM

Oops Dowly drops the ball missing the joke opportunity...

My fault, I have stirred up the Finns :oops:

Listen guys, if you found what I said offensive, my apologies. Without all the long talk about it, I was just saying Finland has won no major title, so they can't be considered on the same level in international ice hockey as Sweden.

I thought I had been quite diplomatic about it, but I guess not. Hell I am from Canada.. we have the second largest contingent of athletes here (only about 10 fewer then the US) and we have less then half of their medal total. It is just how these things go. If we were talking Nordic Skiing then I would have nothing to say to a Finn of course. Canada has won Silver in several skiing events in the past, that doesn't mean we are near the top of the game in them.

I am not saying Finland is incapable of getting there. Of all the countries in the Olympics I would think they are the next one to join the ranks of the "big boys" of ice hockey. They just have not quite reached it yet. :yeah:

Dowly

02-19-10, 07:05 PM

Go to Stockholm Sweden and apologise to everyone he meets?:D

Was thinking more along the lines of buying a weapon, going to stockholm and start shooting. :yep:

*waits for OTH chime in with his moral speech*

TarJak

02-19-10, 07:25 PM

Was thinking more along the lines of buying a weapon, going to stockholm and start shooting. :yep:

Tha's what you get to do if Finland wins.:D

nikimcbee

02-21-10, 06:22 PM

Let the trash talking begin" fight!
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/Hockey-hate-fest-Canada-doesn-rsquo-t-mind-U-S-?urn=oly,221079

ReallyDedPoet

02-21-10, 06:30 PM

Should be a great game. Nothing wrong with having a good hate for the other team. Funny thing is many of the players play for the same team in the NHL.

Go Canada.

http://www.smithersminorhockey.com/assets/hockey/HockeyCanada_Logo.gif

nikimcbee

02-21-10, 06:32 PM

Dowly

02-21-10, 06:36 PM

Let the trash talking begin" fight!
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/Hockey-hate-fest-Canada-doesn-rsquo-t-mind-U-S-?urn=oly,221079

It's the same with Finland & Sweden. :DL Every game, even these preliminary games are like fighting for the gold when the two meet.

ReallyDedPoet

02-21-10, 06:39 PM

Great site for Canadian Hockey:

http://www.hockeycanada.ca/

Nice preview:

Here (http://www.sportingnews.com/olympics/article/2010-02-21/canada-vs-us-its-not-exactly-hate-its-close)

ReallyDedPoet

02-21-10, 07:01 PM

The big difference here will be can Canada handle the pressure of this game playing before a sold out, hockey crazed Canadian Crowd. They need to come out flying and use this to their advantage. For the states it will be the opposite, score early and take the crowd out of the game.

Goalie Position = USA
Defense = Canada
Forwards = Canada
Youth = slight edge to USA
Intangibles ( heart,
experience in the big game, gritty play ) = Canada, but only
slightly

Dowly

02-21-10, 09:44 PM

Ooopsie, not looking so good for Canada. Too bad, I was rooting for them. :-? Ow well, it's 4-3 and 3 min remaining, go go go!!

ReallyDedPoet

02-21-10, 09:51 PM

Ooopsie, not looking so good for Canada. Too bad, I was rooting for them. :-? Ow well, it's 4-3 and 3 min remaining, go go go!!

Yeah, tough game, but not over yet.

By the way, good luck against the Swedes.

ReallyDedPoet

02-21-10, 09:55 PM

It's all but over now. It's far from finished yet, lot's of hockey left
to play as far as the tournament :yep:

Dowly

02-21-10, 11:12 PM

By the way, good luck against the Swedes.

:salute: Hoping for a good game.

Torvald Von Mansee

02-21-10, 11:54 PM

GO SWEDEN!!!!

(I don't actually care)

Highbury

02-22-10, 12:10 AM

Miller was insane tonight. Even though my team lost that was a hell of a game to watch!

The scheduling for the whole night was awesome! Did anyone notice they were all rematches of the last 3 gold medal games? I hadn't picked that up until the announcer said it.

Russia - Czech 1998
Canada - USA 2002
Sweden - Finland 2006

:yeah:

I also want to say Thanks to the people of Holland! I spent the day enjoying the Holland Pavillion, also known as Heineken House. Hell of a nice place to sit back and watch the games. :rock:

ReallyDedPoet

02-23-10, 07:15 PM

Canada-Germany in a few minutes.

Luongo in net, let's go lads.... for **** sakes :yep:

ReFaN

02-23-10, 07:16 PM

Canada-Germany in a few minutes.

Luongo in net, let's go lads.... for **** sakes :yep:

GO GERMANY!!! :woot:

Dowly

02-23-10, 07:18 PM

Go referees!!! :rock:

ReallyDedPoet

02-23-10, 07:28 PM

It's that time of year, well this and also the NHL Payoffs in a
few months :DL

http://www.marketwire.com/library/20080408-beard512.jpg

derblaueClaus

02-23-10, 07:34 PM

Go Germany Go ! Please be merciful with us Canada and let it end under 10 Goals against us. :D

ReallyDedPoet

02-23-10, 10:14 PM

Bring on the Russians :yep:

Highbury

02-23-10, 10:20 PM

Hey reallydedpoet, that sig is from CDC... are you a member of that messed up excuse for a forum as well? lol :up:

ReallyDedPoet

02-23-10, 10:25 PM

Hey reallydedpoet, that sig is from CDC... are you a member of that messed up excuse for a forum as well? lol :up:

No just borrowing it for the next few days :D

derblaueClaus

02-24-10, 06:36 AM

Good Luck Canada ! Hope to see you in the next Olympics. In the Final of course. ;) :)

Skybird

02-24-10, 07:16 AM

Good Luck Canada ! Hope to see you in the next Olympics. In the Final of course. ;) :)
And even if the dream lived for just one minute, so it nevertheless has lived!? :DL

they said on TV, and again wrote in some newspaper today, that in Canada they have more than 550,000 organised hockey players, and several thousands clubs in all leagues, and almost 2000 ice arenas. In Germany you have not more than 30,000 hockey "players" - that term already includes "the little kid who has found it's first pair of skates under the tree" (Die Welt), and two dozens dedicated arenas or so. Some of them are even pretty decent. However, it just does not compare. Hockey is not Germany's sport, and it never will be "anchored" here. The German Hockey League DEL, said to be Europe'S strongest, is that strong only due to the legionaires. The clubs have more interest in recruiting star-status foreigners than doing systematic youth work that could ever raise a true German player generation that, is as a full team, competetive on international level. In fact many say that this has been the strongest German hockey national team ever fielded - and look how it ended - it ended as expected, on 11th place.

There are winter sports where Germans dominate. Hockey is not one of them.

ReallyDedPoet

02-24-10, 07:51 AM

The German Hockey League DEL, said to be Europe'S strongest, is that strong only due to the legionaires. The clubs have more interest in recruiting star-status foreigners than doing systematic youth work that could ever raise a true German player generation that, is as a full team, competetive on international level.

Correct, rental players just won't cut it, in any sport really. For Germany to progress through the ranks they need to develop from within.

Hockey Canada has a curriculum that starts pretty well from the time you hit the ice, with a nice progression from one level to the next.

This is a great site: http://www.hockeycanada.ca/

ReallyDedPoet

02-24-10, 07:54 AM

Just found this, Canada\Russia Hockey History:

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaRDglNyAZ8&feature=related)

Three parts.

Skybird

02-24-10, 08:28 AM

really bad was what happened to Holland's skating star Kramer in the 10,000 meters final yesterday. Being sent onto the wrong lane by one's own coach really is the worst way of getting disqualified. The coach must feel like a sick dog, no doubt. Should one be angry about him? Should one feel pity with him? Probably both. Kramer would have deserved to win. I wonder how this story works out between the two men.

derblaueClaus

02-24-10, 11:19 AM

And even if the dream lived for just one minute, so it nevertheless has lived!? :DL

Correct. ;)
No of course Hockey is not one of the strongest sports in Germany. Was more ment as a joke. And please stop telling the DEL to be one of the best Leagues in the World or even in Europe. It is not. It's like comparing the Faroer Soccer Leage to the Bundesliga. There is no Quality in there you just have to look at the Games in Vancouver. How Germany played is an direct effect from the low qualitiy in the DEL. If it was one of the strogest leagues in the world, then our Players would learn from the legionaires. But as they (legionaires) are only underclass players sadly ours do not learn from them a bit.

really bad was what happened to Holland's skating star Kramer in the 10,000 meters final yesterday. Being sent onto the wrong lane by one's own coach really is the worst way of getting disqualified. The coach must feel like a sick dog, no doubt. Should one be angry about him? Should one feel pity with him? Probably both. Kramer would have deserved to win. I wonder how this story works out between the two men.
Yeah that was bitter. Especially the picture where you saw a furious Kramer packing his things while his trainer was sitting at the foot of a bench behind him just starring in the emptieness.

Skybird

02-24-10, 11:36 AM

Oh the DEL is a very strong league. It's just that it is no "national" league. The clubs want the profits the short way, they do not invest in federal youth work and supporting the national team, instead they rent stars from other countries that attract the audience. And that is a problem, there is no focus on german players, and with star players being imported, young eventual talents do not get the real chance to grow, most of the time. I read that no other country in europe, not even sweden or Finland, has as modern hockey arenas as germany. But there is no interest to transform the popularity into forming a truly "national league". The DEL is a legion etranger. Foreign players are the engines keeping th show running, German players for the most are just fillers. So, in a way you are right and wrong when saying the DEL is not that strong a league. It is strong in the format it now has. Take away the foreigners playing there, and you have a weak league with weak clubs teams.

However, even though audience numbers have slightly fallen during the economy crisis, they still sell a very solid, reliable ammount of tickets.

Commentator yesterday said that in Switzerland they have even fewer hockey players and talents, but for many years consequently focussed on youth work - giving the Swiss a better national team now than the Germans. In Germany, if a talented kid gets discovered with let's say 5 years, you would need to invest another 12 years and more in focussed working with him in order to harvest the fruits of your effort not before 12 years later. No club is interested to do that, they all want the immediate, the rented publicity success with renting stars from other countries.

I think Germany could have a much better hockey culture. But egoist club mentality is against it, there is no vision for that, and no desire for a shining national team. And that'S why we rank as a B if not C team only. that is just logical, and thus: deserved. It's a pity, since I like watching hockey sometimes. But not the Germans...

Highbury

02-24-10, 02:31 PM

Not sure I agree with that Skybird. Weak hockey teams come from a weak junior program, not from having a top league that is not Nationally exclusive. There is no such league in Canada, the US, Sweden or Russia.

Where do Canadians and Americans go at the top level? The NHL. Who is leading the scoring there right now? A Russian and a Swede. Canadians who do not make it to that level play in the AHL, ECHL, KHL, DEL, SEL etc etc. Germans play in all of these leagues.

There is no shortage of leagues to elevate to, just a problem with the system that feeds those leagues within Germany. When Canada failed to win Gold in 1998 the adjustments to the National program were all made at the junior level.

ReallyDedPoet

02-24-10, 02:42 PM

I think weak hockey ultimately comes
from a weak minor hockey program. In the end
all of the various levels should connect, feed into one another. Simply put,
you can't have one without the other.

Plus there are many programs ( hockey schools, various high performance
components ) that also help in overall hockey development.

Skybird

02-24-10, 04:52 PM

Not sure I agree with that Skybird. Weak hockey teams come from a weak junior program,

But that is exactly what I say!? We have too weak a junior program in Germany.

OneToughHerring

02-24-10, 05:01 PM

Belarus is investing heavily in icehockey stadiums, they only used to have few of them but I think several dozen (?) are in the process of being built. Pretty soon they will begin to climb through the ranks and leave the likes of Germany in their wake.

derblaueClaus

02-24-10, 06:27 PM

But that is exactly what I say!? We have too weak a junior program in Germany.
I say nothing against that. I completly agree that is the major problem in Germany. But nevertheless the German DEL is not a strong League althogh they depend mostly on foreigneirs. Just look around in the world. You have Sweden and of course Russia wich have undoubtly stronger Hockey Leagues than Germany. Russia far stronger. To say the DEL is number 2 in world is just absurd.

ReallyDedPoet

02-24-10, 09:18 PM

7-3 Canada over Russia going into the third : )

ReallyDedPoet

02-24-10, 09:51 PM

:rock::rock: Canada baby :DL

Highbury

02-24-10, 10:04 PM

:rock::rock: Canada baby :DL
:rock::rock::rock::rock:

Now I am off to downtown Vancouver to join in the party! (Couldn't afford tickets to the game lol)

ReallyDedPoet

02-24-10, 10:11 PM

:rock::rock::rock::rock:

Now I am off to downtown Vancouver to join in the party! (Couldn't afford tickets to the game lol)

Have fun :up::up:

Dowly

02-25-10, 12:19 AM

Great game against the Czechs! Was beating my head against the wall for the most of it. Next, to get beat up by the yanks. :hmmm:

krashkart

02-25-10, 12:24 AM

Great game against the Czechs! Was beating my head against the wall for the most of it. Next, to get beat up by the yanks. :hmmm:

*bonks Dowly with a Whiffle Bat*

You done been beat up by a Yank, Dowly. :D

Dowly

02-25-10, 12:29 AM

Oww!! :cry:

krashkart

02-25-10, 12:32 AM

Aw darn. Sorry about your noggin, bud. Beer? :DL

Dowly

02-25-10, 12:33 AM

*drinks, pees himself and passes out*

krashkart

02-25-10, 12:43 AM

:rotfl2::rotfl2:

Goodness gracious, man. You got a sense of humor a mile wide. :salute:

Highbury

02-25-10, 01:13 AM

Slovakia 2 - Sweden 0 at the half-way mark. Wow

*Edit ~ Ok.. now tied with 5 min left in the 2nd.. WOW! :o

**Edit ~ 4 - 3 Final! Didn't expect that result.

ReallyDedPoet

02-25-10, 08:21 AM

Nice recap here of last night: Here (http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-hockey/)

Dowly

02-25-10, 09:21 AM

Bye bye Sweden! WHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA! :O:

ReallyDedPoet

02-25-10, 08:27 PM

Canada up 2-0 over USA in Women's
Hockey. Gold Medal Game.

Edit: Canada for the win and gold :rock:

Skybird

02-26-10, 08:31 AM

ReallyDedPoet

02-26-10, 09:02 AM

Saw the women'S hockey final, and enjoyed it. The commentator mentioned that Slovenia was beaten I think 18:0, something in that range, and that in qualification Slovenia has beaten Bulgaria by - how much? 82:0 or something like that. Is that true?

Lady's hockey is fine to watch - but only if the American and Canadian teams play each other, it seems. there is no other competition for them, that is what puts the future of lady's hockey in the olympic program into question. Too bad for the Canadian and American girls, but still: understandable. A tournament should be more than a two-team-show. Watching a match where one teams wiupes the floor with the other and wins 18:0, is not entertaining at all.

Hopefully the other countries will continue to progress as it would be a shame to not to see the sport in future Olympics.

A recent article on the subject:Here (http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010wintergames/women+hockey+Jacques+Rogge+sounds+sexist/2615162/story.html)

Another one: Here (http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/2010wintergames/Gift+medal+women+hockey+raises+concerns/2616352/story.html)

Article with comments:Here (http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/hockey/story/2010/02/26/spo-your-view.html)

Here is one comment:

Any one old enough to remember the beginning of men's olympic ice hockey , will also remember the terrible lopsided victories of the Canadian teams in the beginning, where small town canadian teams brought hockey to the world.

Another one:

This is ridiculous. Maybe we should also get rid of basketball, because the Americans almost always win that. Also biathlon, because that almost always goes to Germany or Norway.

And a disproportionate number of Kenyans have won the marathon, so we should cut that as well.

Personally I think the sport needs more time to develop before it is taken out. After all it has only been an Olympic Sport since Nagano in 98'. Also, let's face it, there are just some sports that a certain country will always be dominant in.

Skybird

02-26-10, 09:37 AM

"Dominant"? The USSR was "dominant" in hockey, under Tychonov. Canadian and American women's icehockey is not dominant - it is beyond good and evil. And if you look at the huge number of players in these two countries, and only the tiny fraction of that total in all the remaining world's nations together, there is little hope it will start to become different in the forseeable future: decades, that is.

For the time being it makes more sense to focus on a Northamerican women's icehockey league instead.

ReallyDedPoet

02-26-10, 10:24 AM

"Dominant"? The USSR was "dominant" in hockey, under Tychonov.

You mean this guy right ;)

http://visualrian.com/storage/PreviewWM/0507/75/050775.jpg

Viktor Tikhonov

You threw me for a loop at first. No question that they had great years under him, but then again those were the Red Army years, and at the majority of International Events ( though there were a few exceptions, Canada Cups, 72' Canada-Soviet Series ) they were playing against the best amateur players in the world, when they themselves for all intensive purposes were professionals.

Canada is dominant in hockey, in female hockey for sure. In men's hockey, they are one of a number of dominant countries.

Nice link regarding play between the two countries:Here (http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/rainbowcountry/canadarussia.html)

Skybird

02-26-10, 11:54 AM

ReallyDedPoet

02-26-10, 01:04 PM

Let me explain what I mean the Soviets dominated international ice hockey.

They won the Olympics 7 times: 1956, 1964, 1968, 1972, 1976, 1984, 1988.

They won the world championship 22 times: 1954, 1956, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1986, 1989, 1990.

Any questions...? :DL That's what I call "dominance". And have seen many matches of theirs. Under Tikhonov they played the best hockey of that time. That's why the American win in 1980 was called a "miracle".

Canada's victory in the summit series 72, was close, 4 wins, 3 defeats, 1 draw. Both teams fielded professional players from their national highest leagues. Before the last game, standing was 3,5 : 3,5 in victories, with Canada lacking behind by 1 goal. Canada won that last match with one goal more than the Russians, but the series was won so closely only that one hardly can say the Canadians "dominated": 4 wins, 3 defeats, 1 draw, same number of goals scored.

The summit series two years later saw the Russians winning, with he Canadians fielding players whose status was declared as "amaterus".

I guess I am not being clear either. It was not until 1998 that pro hockey players were allowed to play in the Olympics, what has Russia's record been since then :yep: Prior to that they were playing amateurs when they themselves were professionals. So you are comparing apples to oranges.

As far as the IIHF, it is not a good measure of hockey dominance, as all of the best players are not there. Many are still involved in hockey elsewhere, with the majority playing in the NHL at that time of year.This was especially the case 10-15 years ago and beyond when the majority of players in the NHL were from Canada ( not so anymore ), so at best we were icing a B team most of the time. Again you are comparing apples to oranges.

So....Russia was dominant over what? It certainly was not dominant against the best players in the world.

Any questions :smug:

Highbury

02-26-10, 02:57 PM

World Championships is the "Best of the Rest" tournament... the only people who play in it are players whose NHL team has been eliminated from the playoffs.

Basically everything RDP said is correct, the only time we have had truly "fair" competition in Ice Hockey is in the NHL-Olympics era. In that time 6 different teams have been to the final. While there are certainly elite teams, nobody is dominant.

Dowly

02-26-10, 03:46 PM

Fincuan

02-26-10, 04:01 PM

Look at the bright side: You can now stop watching it and go to the pub a few hours early!

OneToughHerring

02-26-10, 06:33 PM

Well there is still the bronze game. :)

I kind of dozed off before the game started and woke up in the second period. :o

Factor

02-26-10, 10:15 PM

Men's hockey; **** you team USA. Burn in hell, I hope you all die a horrible and very very slow and painful death. (slow overrun by a bus would seem about right). Faggots.

*Disclaimer: I cannot be held responsible of people being offended if certain words have not been censored by the administration staff of this forum. Thank you.

You are an arrogant ass for that comment. Just because the Finns couldn't hang, means you want people to die a horrible death. Grow up the F up.

Factor

02-26-10, 10:36 PM

http://i47.tinypic.com/30ves05.jpg

She is holding that cigar like it is a blunt!:woot:

krashkart

02-26-10, 10:53 PM

^ Those Canadian gals got into trouble with the Committee, from what I heard. Hell, I'd have let them party down and probably even joined them! :har:

Yeah, she does appear to be holding that cigar like a doobie. Hooray Canada, nonetheless. :salute:

Factor

02-26-10, 10:57 PM

Gotta love that BC bud! :yeah:

ReallyDedPoet

02-26-10, 11:51 PM

Close one with Slovakia, but a win
is a win. Bring on the US.

Should be a great one.

Highbury

02-27-10, 12:14 AM

Close one with Slovakia, but a win
is a win. Bring on the US.

Should be a great one.

I loved what the commentator on CTV said when the crowd was chanting "we want USA!"

"The US wants you too Canada..."

Should be a hell of a game.

Skybird

02-27-10, 07:16 PM

A bunch of bureaucrats taking themselves too important want to mess with the Canadian girls doing some party. Oh yeah, I love the IOC so very much. They should havbe better taken care of the ice channel, I think. This is the same kind of desktop bastards and the same kind of disturbed thinking wanting to forbid display of enjoyment and triumph by players in football, and anything else that could interrupt the calm pace of the bureaucratic procedure and what makes sports events a human event. Poor. Germany's 2-Gold-medalist Magdalena Neuner heavily attacked the officials for the "inhumane" way they treated the atheletes after passing the finishing line, yelling in her ear with demands and regulations and leaving her not two seconds to enjoy and celebrate her victory with the audience. she was so pissed that she stepped down from a later team competiton and left her place for another girl.

The German ladies in team speed skating produced a real nailbiter. In semi-finals, Germany'S Friesinger took a dive and went onto the ice just meters before the finish, sliding over the line on her belly. she considered her mess to be the doom for her team, and while still sliding already screamed and drummed her fists onto the ice in anger and frustration, then in the last moment pushed her leg forward so that her shoe nevertheless touched the line first of all her body. It was enough to make it to the finals. In the finals, the Japanese team led with more than 1.7 second at the beginning of the second last round, when the Germans launched their turbo - and won on the last meters by 0.002 seconds. - Boah ey! :D

Moving was the scene when Maria Riesch after her triump in Alpine Slalom first was celebrating and enjoying her triump and got congratulations by Lindsay Vonn - and then her "little sister" Susanne Riesch fell into her arms in despair and cried out loud, for she had failed to finish the parcour short before and once again missed a chance to step out of the shadow of her older sister. The picture illustrated better than any other how very thin the thin red line between triump and tragedy in sports can be.

It has been a very long time since I followed Olympic Games with a continuing basic interest the last time, but I enjoyed it this time. Tomorrow the hockey finals, and then it is over.

OneToughHerring

02-28-10, 12:51 AM

Well bronze for the Finnish hockey team. Not bad, especially when due to the somewhat strange match pairing and some suggestions of losing certain games on purpose. Finland won the Czechs and the Slovaks, I guess that was bronze-worthy. USA was really good, my pick to win the whole thing.

ReallyDedPoet

02-28-10, 12:54 PM

Let's go Canada, time for some redemption against the USA :yep::rock::rock:

CaptainHaplo

02-28-10, 04:28 PM

There was a news/sports report on a bit ago locally.

It said in Vancouver there were lines HUNDREDS long waiting to get into sports bars to watch the game. They also reported that local authorities are expecting riots if Canada loses. Some shopkeepers were already boarding up windows.

Lack of confidence?

krashkart

02-28-10, 05:15 PM

Sort of watching the hockey match 'tween US and Canada today. My stepdad seems to think the match is already over (Canada wins). We'll see. :DL

Dowly

02-28-10, 05:58 PM

Congrats Canada. :up:

nikimcbee

02-28-10, 05:59 PM

:damn::damn:

krashkart

02-28-10, 06:00 PM

O Canada... :()1:

Congratulations! Good match. :woot:
We'll get you next time around. :03:

Skybird

02-28-10, 06:03 PM

Fantastic match, and incredibly fast! Congrats to both teams for delivering it! If I would need to rate the teams, I would score it somewhat like 52:48 or so for Canada, so the Canadian victory in the end is okay. Glad they did not need to play penalty lottery - that's always the most unsatisfying way to decide a match.

Special thanks from Germany also, for the Canadian victory saved Germany's second place in the medal record - behind Canada and before the US. A US win would have pushed the US to 2nd and kicked Germany to 3rd. :D

Highbury

02-28-10, 06:03 PM

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
:woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:

Fantastic game, fantastic result!! Well played USA, alot to be proud of for the team THN called "the Underdogs" of 2010.

One great thing that was shown on Canadian TV... Soldiers at Kandahar watching the game with a big banner "Canada - USA. Brothers In Arms. Not on the Ice." :D

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

asanovic7

02-28-10, 06:05 PM

go canada go

CROSBY!!!

ReallyDedPoet

02-28-10, 06:07 PM

Great game USA.

Nice to see the kid get the winner.
Time to have a beer or ten : )

August

02-28-10, 06:14 PM

Good game Canada. I really thought we had you.

krashkart

02-28-10, 06:17 PM

Special thanks from Germany also, for the Canadian victory saved Germany's second place in the medal record - behind Canada and before the US. A US win would have pushed the US to 2nd and kicked Germany to 3rd. :D

Oh you're just plugging there, Skybird. JK bud. Best to all, mate. Cheers. :03::DL

August

02-28-10, 06:24 PM

Ahem:

USA 37 medals, Germany 30, Canada 26

http://www.nbcolympics.com/medals/2010-standings/index.html

RickC Sniper

02-28-10, 06:25 PM

Awesome way to end a great olympics.

Congratulations Canada!

:salute:

ReallyDedPoet

02-28-10, 06:27 PM

Yeah, hats off to the USA and also Germany
regarding the total medal count.

Great job Canada for most gold.

ReFaN

02-28-10, 06:29 PM

Congrats Canada :D

:woot:

RickC Sniper

02-28-10, 06:37 PM

Ahem:

USA 37 medals, Germany 30, Canada 26

http://www.nbcolympics.com/medals/2010-standings/index.html

I think Skybird only counts the gold ones?

Skybird

02-28-10, 06:56 PM

I think Skybird only counts the gold ones?
That is the most dominant counting form over here, you find it in most media. Counting the highest medal category, and if there is a draw, the second highest category gets counted.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7123/image1tse.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/image1tse.jpg/)

but of course it depends on the modus of counting. If you do not differ between medals (which makes sense regarding sportsmanship and also regarding the sometimes absurdly small time splits deciding the rankings, but is ignoring the simpel fact that in public awareness even the second places gets forgotten soon) the list is different. Or maybe like German second oublic TV channel ZDF did in that table: counting Gold with 3, Silver with 2 and Bronze with 1 point (and then the rankings are USA-GER-CAN).

Counting modes are arbitrary. But the way the screenshot shows it is the one modus I see most often on german as well as international media.

Skybird

02-28-10, 07:00 PM

:O: And then we have the eternal medal display of all years. And then it does not matter how you count it. :D :woot:

This time it is German state TV, first channel ARD:

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/663/image2bg.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/image2bg.jpg/)

:O: Who laughs last, laughs best... :D

krashkart

02-28-10, 07:02 PM

:rotfl2:

Right on Skybird. :up:

RickC Sniper

02-28-10, 07:10 PM

@Skybird

That is enlightening. Here they always count all medals when they rank countries.

It is all just semantics anyway. I suspect people/nations will count in the way they that favors their country, that is human nature.

Canada was the winner in this olympics in my eyes. The last two times they were host country they got zero golds, this year 14. Quite incredible.

Skybird

02-28-10, 07:25 PM

@Skybird

That is enlightening. Here they always count all medals when they rank countries.

I noted that, and as I said, I even like it, considering sportsmanship. However, both German and English wikipedia, for example, count it the way I explained. So do many international sports news outlets.

It is all just semantics anyway.

Absolutely!

Canada was the winner in this olympics in my eyes. The last two times they were host country they got zero golds, this year 14. Quite incredible.
Yes, they are. Their teams and single atheletes and their audience are the winners of this, and the hospitality of the Canadian people has been noted and prasied by all visitors and foreign sportsmen. This does not get reduced in value by the atheletes expressing quite some very severe criticism of the officials and their organisation and decisions, which is also massively interfered by the IOC's subordinate bodies. The many issues around the ice channel are a scandal, so was the confused timing order of several events, and several decisions to continue competition despite irregular weather conditions, but all that is no wrong done by the Candian people, but the IOC's and local organisers. The great landscape around Vancouver also found many coverings and comments in the media as well. It even made me curious myself.

August

02-28-10, 07:51 PM

The all time German medal count posted by Skybird includes those won by both West and East Germany. That's kind of unfair to the rest of the nations who only have one chance at winning a medal.

CaptainHaplo

02-28-10, 08:26 PM

Congrats to Canada on Hockey Gold - and congrats to ALL of the competing nations for the effort and skill shown by all.

CCIP

02-28-10, 08:34 PM

ReallyDedPoet

02-28-10, 08:38 PM

Fantastic game, thanks for the great match USA.

I hate to admit it, but in a strange way that last-moment goal in 3rd period made me happy. It turned what would've been a just solid win into a super-exciting and memorable match. Great hockey right there.

Yeah, great game.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/photos/2010/02/28/crosby-goal-ap-100228.jpg

Nice to see you back here CCIP :up:

Highbury

02-28-10, 11:06 PM

Canada was the winner in this olympics in my eyes. The last two times they were host country they got zero golds, this year 14. Quite incredible.

Most Gold medals ever by any country in one Winter Olympics (the record was 13 so the hockey win was big in more ways then one). I am pretty sure that the combined US total is the most for any country at a Winter Olympics.. I would say we both came out pretty well :up:

It has awesome being here for it. I went out for a smoke between periods and on what would normally be a busy street, only 3 cars passed the whole time I was out there... city was dead silent. After the game it just exploded. I just got back from a drive through Richmond into Vancouver and back... what would normally be an hour drive took over 4! Party on every corner :D

Skybird

03-01-10, 05:09 AM

I am pretty sure that the combined US total is the most for any country at a Winter Olympics.

Indeed, it's been a steal :DL

the top ten of the highest combined medal count:

place - year - country - combined total
--------------------------------------------
.1. 2010 USA.. 37
.2. 2002 GER.. 36
.3. 2002 USA.. 34
.4. 2010 GER.. 30
.5. 1988 USSR 29
.6. 1998 GER.. 29
.7. 2006 GER.. 29
.8. 1976 USSR 27
.9. 1994 NOR.. 26
10. 2010 CAN.. 26

The entries with the same combined total I sorted by year (older entries goes first), since the number of competitions held at the Olympics grew over the years, raising the chances for nations to score.

And the total number of gold medals won:

.1. 2010 CAN.. 14
.2. 1976 USSR 13
.3. 2002 NOR.. 13
.4. 1998 GER.. 12
.5. 2002 GER.. 12
.6. 1964 USSR 11
.7. 1988 USSR 11
.8. 1994 RUS.. 11
.9. 2006 GER.. 11
10. 1980 USSR 10
11. 1992 GER.. 10
12. 1998 NOR.. 10
13. 2002 USA.. 10
14. 2010 GER.. 10

Lousy monday. Only boredom can explain the statistical mood I'm in. :)

However, as Rick already said, all this is just entertaining semantics, which may not even be free from flaws. One could argue how the medals are to be summarised or distributed regarding the Soviet union, the Coimmunity of Independent States and Russia and the former Soviet provinces that have become independent states. Some may want to be critical of East- and Westgermany's medals being summarised (however, both countries' atheletes were Germans from he same territory of the Germany today, and many sport programs of the GDR had been taken over by the united Germany). One may want to consider the problem of doped versus undoped sports. The amateur versus professional hockey teams. And , of course, the fundamental problem of the Olympics that has totallay corrupted the Olympic idea anyway: professional atheletes versus amateurs.

So in the end, statistics are just what they are: numbers. For the athletes, what counts is the moments of the competition, and what counts for the watching audience is the moments of emotion. And what counts for the IOC and it'S directors, is counting money and getting the president's suite in their 5 star hotels.