A small but startling adendum to the DRM issue - for those with long attention spans

[rascal101]

I detect a slight wearyness re the whole SH5 thing and the DRM in particualr so I thought the following might cheer a few people up.

The following represents a small new slant on the issue, especially for those of us capable of reading more than a couple of paragraphs without suffering attention deficit

I was talking to my GF about the uproar at SubSim and the games world in general re DRM or systems like it. I thought I'd have to explain it in some detail as she's not a gamer – but, she does have an interest in all things technical.

In fact she subscribes to the online techies journal Silicon.com. Turned out she knew exactly what I was talking about - you see she's one a number of folks world wide who're currently beta testing the next Office Suite Office 2010, apparently the Beta test was set up by, or through or in conjunction with Silicon.com

Now here's the fun bit - turns out with the next edition of Office suite you’re going to need ………guess what……permanent internet connection Ta Da! -

Is slightly different from what we’re encountering re saved games on SH5 as with the new Office you'll be able to save your worked documents on your own machine - BUT IN ORDER TO USE THE NEXT EDITION OF OFFICE YOU WILL NEED TO BE ONLINE in order TO USE IT - It wont function without it

Aint that something - we live in interesting times indeed!

And what’s more these things we're discussing are not so a response to piracy - but more from a relatively new direction or idea in computing that wants to make your the personal PC a thing of the past. I wonder if any one's heard of CLOUD COMPUTING?

Your PC will essentially be a terminal with the licensed programs you wish to use miles away on the publisher’s server, you’ll buy access to it but you will not own it and you wont even install it because you cant, your machines is just a terminal and that’s all it is – The publisher will own the content and you will purchase a license to access – or pay some kind of subscription fee, from the publisher's perspective this makes a lot of sense.

I sell and promote a range of online databases for schools, these are subscribed and we love them cos every year we get more money from the same customer who has to renew their access in order to continue to have access to the content. Basic and simple.

I’ve often thought the next logical step for the DRM and systems like it when applied to computer games was to do away with the whole customer purchase business model and move to a subscription system – you would subscribe to SH5 not purchase it. I believe there are a number of games that do this now, not games I'd be interested in and wiht the very patchy quality of the internet in many countries you'd have to be an idot, or just simply very nieve to go down this path.

Any way if you think it all sounds like a big conspiracy read up on CLOUD COUMPUTING - check the two links below from Silicon.com

See some links below, a selection of articles from Silicon.com which is the bible for computer techies:

http://www.silicon.com/tags/cloud+computing.htm (http://www.silicon.com/tags/cloud+computing.htm)

http://www.silicon.com/search/cloud+computing.htm (http://www.silicon.com/search/cloud+computing.htm)

So there it is for those of us old timers who're decrying the seeming direction things are going there’s something else to gnash your teeth about -

For those others whose in-depth analysis of the DRM thing with SH5 has been to say it’s the way things are headed and to just deal with it – well there’s something in the above for both of us –

Interestingly there is considerable unrest out there about the new Office especially amongst the business community who are upset about the possible unauthorized access to confidential information, never mind the privacy concerns of the average citizen should be extremely concerned about.

My GF says there's no trade off re the new Office, nothing that might allay the fears as outlined above – if you want to use it you got to go online

Something to think about

R

[Reece]

Linux is looking good now!!:up:

[HundertzehnGustav]

I am aware of this cloud computing for some time now, and dude, i tells ya, it aint doin no good to my stomach.

Yes to mee too, Linux is starting to look really good.
Its a Bit*h to use, compared to XP/Vista/7 and nowhere as good as Macintosh...

But like with SHV, i want freedom, i want control over my OS, Hardware and Privacy. Its all MINE afterall.

Therefor, Linux is the future of the free Computer user.
Viva Richard Stallman!:yeah:

I see everyone else being enslaved and controlled by these Supercorporations already. By... 2015? 2020? Dont know. Dont care. I will do my best to NOT be part of it.

[BarjackU977]

I too know what cloud computing is.

The question is: why cloud computing? A Hotmail/Yahoo/Gmail address is handy, so that we can check mails from any computer anywhere.

Google Documents: do you need it? You might as well. Or maybe not. I don't, personally, as I've a word editor/viewer at work, home and even on my mobile phone.

It really depends on needs and personal preferences.
But it's not because something is trendy that one needs it or likes it, or have to accept it for everything.

Do I need cloud computer for a game like SH5? Certainly not, and I see more inconvenient than advantages.
So do I have to accept cloud computing down my throat for every software? No, I don't want that.

I'm not saying Cloud computing is bad. It has advantages in some cases. But I want my software to remain as much independent from Internet connections as possible.

[HundertzehnGustav]

It is made convenient for the average user, to fight piracy, software re-selling, and such.
M$ doing what it can do best. not software, no, money.

May i suggest something/ change the Thread title to:

"DRM - and what the Future of Personal compuuting will bring"

it could attract more Views, as i personally would like everyone to read this.
Its really a subject that keeps me thinking, at times, and i feel you made a good start at explaining the subject.

One simple example of Cloud computing, i am sure you will find others:
Online Games like
Travian - www.travian.com
or
Tribal wars www.tribal-wars.com

I play on two servers in the German Variant of Tribal wars, called Die-Staemme.de, and my PC is simply acting as an input/output device for the calculations made by their system. My PC calculates nothing, all that is really needed is my Wireless modem to send the information, the Keyboard and mouse to gather input, and the Monitor to do the output.
GPU, CPU, RAM are nnothing but relay stations for the Data, The Browser Window is its GUI, and no data is stored on a HDD.

-> simplified<-

That is ok for me, as its a free game, and i watch what i do.

[Diopos]

Ancient question. Was it Plato that asked "who will guard us against our guardians ?" or something similar?
Let's do a "what if" ....
What if Cloud Computing Internet was implemented under a soviet-type regime? How would our theorists and champions of individuality and freedom have reacted?:hmm2:




.

[JU_88]

Good an interesting read Rascal,:up:
I had heard the term 'cloud computing' before but never really associated it with this.
Scary isnt it, its not far off from logging in to an RDP session to use a program on another machine.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Ancient question. Was it Plato that asked "who will guard us against our guardians ?" or something similar?
Let's do a "what if" ....
What if Cloud Computing Internet was implemented under a soviet-type regime? How would our theorists and champions of individuality and freedom have reacted?:hmm2:




.
There would have been no theorists or individualists.. They would have been found in the logfiles, and shot in the back of the head.

But Cloud computing might somehow head that way - corporations taking over governments, and kicking people in the ass, sending them to jail... by... 2030?

By Then i am off to an Internet an PC free zone of the world.

[Reaves]

That's it! I'm starting my own internet....

And MACS aren't allowed btw.

[The Enigma]

I'm very well aware that cloud computing is

Lucky for me I've changed my MS Office suite for another suite.
And I agree, Linux is becoming more and more appealing to me.

I also want freedom for my digital world, no chains.
If I want to surf the net, then that's my decision when and how.

If I want to be off line using whatever software I've bought, I do not wish
to need an internet connection.

If software demands such connection, I remove it from my PC at once or don't even install it.

Freedom of choice is what I have and nobody can take that away from me.

IMO cloud computing will prove to be another computer hype.

[FinnN]

I'm using a beta of the next version of Office and you don't need to be online all the time to use it.

Have fun
Finn

[Hitman]

Many thanks for the interesting read (Even if it made my stomach revolve and want to vomit) but in any case I think this thread belongs already to the General Topics forum, or even to technical one.

I am the first to slam UBI's new DRM policy, but I understand there are many new SH5 users with no issues with DRM willing to recover control of this forum :haha:

Let it be moved :up:

[Captain von Keldunk]

Maybe this SH5 online thing is not really drm but IGA =
In-game advertising

here is link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-game_advertising
.........:rotfl2:..........:arrgh!:............... :haha::har:
Edit: another link, ubisoft free games for IGA Prince of Persia: Sands of Time; etc..http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/452
Edi2: The ability to dynamically serve advertising into video games that are connected to the Internet will create a growing opportunity. As gamers connect consoles to the Internet for online gaming and commerce, publishers and their respective console partners increasingly will look to reach them through advertising

[The Enigma]

Yuk, that's even more disgusting.

But I agree, It could be that UBI wants to introduce such advertising as well.

[Sgtmonkeynads]

Convoy Spotted !, Orders Sir?
1. Dive to periscope depth.
2. Maintain Orders
3. Shop at UBI.COM for a better game

[Letum]

OT:

Ancient question. Was it Plato that asked "who will guard us against our guardians ?" or something similar?

Defiantly not Plato.
Plato took the attitude of "I'm really clever so I should rule you all because it would be a disaster if you rabble had any power over your own fate; idiots you are".

[Brag]

Thanks, Rascal. This is beginning to sound like scary science fiction, Step by small step toward total control.

Of course, there are a lot more of us vs. THEM. So it is a matter of accepting the unacceptable or drawing the line, NOW!

[Ragtag]

I use the Office 2010 myself and you don't have to be online to use it.
Why she think's one have to is beyond me. Internet is only required for some functions... as usual.

Here's a link to the official requirement's: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee624351(office.14).aspx

[HundertzehnGustav]

Microsoft Excel 2010

The following table lists the system requirements for Microsoft Excel 2010.
<snipped>



Internet Explorer 6 or later, 32-bit browser only. Internet functionality requires Internet access (fees might apply).

??

why do i need internet access to do excel in Office 2010?
Server connectivity is okay, cause you are most likely in a business environment where fdata is stored on your Local server but why on your desk?
?

*edit*
NOTE:those are the beta requirements, so the internet acces might be for validation purposes.

[Arclight]

Anyone remember OnLive?

OnLive is a gaming-on-demand game platform, announced at the Game Developers Conference in 2009. The service is a gaming equivalent of cloud computing: the game is synchronized, rendered, and stored on a remote server and delivered online. The service was announced to be compatible with any Windows PC running Windows XP or Windows Vista, or any Intel-based Mac running OS X and on smartphones. A low-end computer, as long as it can play video, may be used to play any kind of game since the game is computed on the OnLive server. For that reason, the service is being seen as a strong competitor for the console market. Steve Perlman states that a 1.5 Mbps connection will be needed to display games in SDTV resolution (typical output of Wii and previous generation console titles) while 4-5 Mbps will be needed for HDTV resolution, such as those output by the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. The average broadband connection speed in the US at the end of 2008 was 3.9 Mbps, while 25% of US broadband connections were rated faster than 5 Mbps.

It was announced that Electronic Arts, Take-Two, Ubisoft, Epic Games, Atari, Codemasters, THQ, Warner Bros., 2D Boy and Eidos Interactive have signed up to have their PC games available on the service. Sixteen game titles are currently available from the OnLive service. The service was originally planned for a retail release in the winter of 2009. However it has yet to be released. Steve Perlman plans to offer the service in the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe after getting it established in the United States over the coming year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnLive

Was in the news a while back, dropped of the radar since then. :hmmm:

[HundertzehnGustav]

but still in development i betcha. will resurface in the future when its ready to put its gun in our faces.


such technologies are not shared with the public, as they are the treasures of the corporations that develop them.

Brace for impact i say.

[Ragtag]

Connection required for some functions... quite logic isn't it?
It's always been that way and 2010 is no different in that department.
There are some new stuff in 2010 that requires a connection and that is what the requirements says.

[Steeltrap]

Microsoft Excel 2010



Internet Explorer 6 or later, 32-bit browser only. Internet functionality requires Internet access (fees might apply).


If you read carefully, it says you need internet access for internet functions. 'Fees might apply' refers to the fact you'll probably have to pay for your internet.

So what functions? Things like the online Microsoft help, etc.

So it DOESN'T mean you need the internet to use its 'core' functions.

As for cloud computing, that's partly a reaction to the costs involved in the infrastructure for running a business of any 'medium/large' size. They're very large costs.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Hm when have i last used MS help....
i prefer the RTFM approach.:O:

[zakarpatska]

A little googling indicates that the "Who will guard the guards" or "Who will watch the watchers" quote comes from Juvenal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juvenal

[ryanglavin]

I can't wait till the day I have 1000 saves on ubisofts server because i feel like it, then an EMP goes off over N america.

[tater]

Yeah, "for internet functions."

I cannot imagine a business willing to pay for an app used for daily operation (Word, Excel, etc) that would cease to function if someone at some other business kicked the cord out. Would you?

"Sorry, Mr. Customer, I could not fedex you a packet describing our new offering for you because Word was down due to a car crash that took out a phone line."

"The dog ate my homework, too."

[Diopos]

A little googling indicates that the "Who will guard the guards" or "Who will watch the watchers" quote comes from Juvenal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juvenal

Both correct! (oddly enough... :DL!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3F

[Robsoie]

When one need an application for work it is always a good idea to check the open source world and the talented people coding there.
Not only the sources can actually be checked to avoid some nasty spying and external company control on your system, but most are not some low level applications, but often are as feature packed as the commercial alternative :

Want a valid and good alternative to Office ?
Open Office (http://www.openoffice.org/)

Want a valid and good alternative to high level modelling softwares ?
Blender (http://www.blender.org/)

Want a valid and good alternative to Photoshop ?
Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/)

etc ... etc ...

[Jan Kyster]

If you want the online version of Office, yes, you'll need an online connection? like Google's "office" application. What's odd about that?? :88)

Your documents are viewable in browsers and can be accesed from everywhere... aka cloud computing through Office Web Apps.
Please note these applications are for free....


If you want an Office with off-line capabilities, you go buy the full thingy... which is really cheap btw...

Your GF is wrongly informed - or misleading you.

[Spike88]

I have the Office 2010 Beta on both my and my girlfriends computer. I can guarantee 100% that it works without the internet on, or even plugged in.

Whether this will hold true for the full version or not, I don't know.

[Mikkow]

The infrastructure for abuse as potential as this should not even exist.

In the EU now they have been passing legislation that they attempt to impose on every member state that demands that they tap, record and store all personal communication (except mail, because mail is something people learned earlier was something you don't want others to open, and laws were made to protect integrity. Unfortunately corporations are just as interested in smashing privacy as governments are and people have yet to really understand that e-mail and SMS is no different to normal mail and it should be just as protected).

This (by law) forces Internet Providers and phone companies to set up ENORMOUS storage systems to store all the data that people pass around (SMS's, emails, calls and so forth). This is very expensive. But that's fine, because they can pass the cost to the users of digital communication (us).

Data mining is huge business. Marketing departments of every company drools over getting their hands on detailed personal data on as many people as possible so that they can try to figure out the best way to manipulate them into consuming their services/goods.

Governments drool just the same over the same data, because that means they can anticipate more and more and exercise extreme control over their subjects (citizens).

China is a good example of how this is being used. I personally have a REALLY BIG PROBLEM with the idea of people recording, storing and listening/reading my personal communications. I'll be damned if I ever accept more developments like that in the entertainment industry (UbiSoft's new online scheme for example).

It was clear a few years ago that Linux was the only way forward for me once a certain point is reached. I need to get it installed sometime soon and learn how to use it, and then start buying stuff for it and paying for less and less on stuff for the Windows platform. And never-ever support cloud computing or online schemes.

[CaptainHaplo]

"Cloud" computing has been around for decades. In previous incarnations one would simply use what was called a "dumb terminal". However, when the .net framework came out was when MS made it clear they wanted to move toward more a centralized system.

Cloud computing has its uses. There are situations where it outperforms a server/client or peer network structure. Almost every major business that has order, shipping and fulfillment departments uses a form of cloud computiing. If you have ever worked for a company that used an AS400 or Unix style order tracking package, you have worked with cloud computing.

Simply put, the cloud is where all the work is done, instead of locally on your machine. Its not scary or the end of computer freedom. Heck - MMORPGs and such are an adaptation of cloud computing. All the real work in the game goes on at the servers - your "terminal" simply has to do the processing work of how to display the outcomes.

Its also not applicable to the vast majority of games. Requiring an internet connection is not cloud computing either - because your PC is still doing all the work - it just needs to phone home for permission to do that work.

I won't have SH5 until OSP is removed, but don't confuse cloud computing with a simple ET "permission to run" setup.

[eddie]

I like the sound of what EA is doing compared to Ubisoft, except its Securom. Just saw this in this blog from EA.

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2010/01/26/BFBC2-PC-Copy-Protection.aspx##

[Reece]

I like the sound of what EA is doing compared to Ubisoft, except its Securom. Just saw this in this blog from EA.

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2010/01/26/BFBC2-PC-Copy-Protection.aspx##
SecuRom!! At least you can play single player off line!!:yep: