Just a hypothetical about SH5 DRM...

[Onkel Neal]

Let's say I have a copy of SH5 to test. I install it, fire up a mission and after a bit, disconnect my cable. The game announces it does not have a connection, PAUSES game, and autosaves the game at the point I am disconnected. I have an option to continue waiting or quit and play later. I choose to wait. I go into the kitchen, make a glass of tea, stir in some sugar, and return. I reconnect the cable, and the game says "Ready to resume". I click Yes, and the game picks up where it left off. Ignoring the bigger issue of evil DRM, if the game worked that way, would that, at least in terms of playing the game, be a pass or fail?

[TarJak]

Whats wrong with having a pause button? Same result for less mucking about IMHO.

[fromhell]

i would be happy with that, so its a pass with me.:yeah:

[Webster]

Whats wrong with having a pause button? Same result for less mucking about IMHO.


we already have the pause by using "esc" key so if auto save is there and works its nice but not a big plus in my book but its also not a negative either.

ps - neal is that why the servers went down? SH5 crashed them or gave you a virus? :har:


just kidding everyone, dont go balistic over a joke :O:

[bigboywooly]

Not a bad idea in principle but as OSP still there so I voted fail

Is this a Ubi based idea so when pass gets a win they add it in and say we asked for it

:rotfl2:

As TJ said we already have a pause in SH3 and 4 and that works just fine
Offline

[karamazovnew]

Let's say I have a copy of SH5 to test. I install it, fire up a mission and after a bit, disconnect my cable. The game announces it does not have a connection and autosaves the game at the point I am disconnected. I have an option to wait or return later. I choose to wait. I go into the kitchen, make a glass of tea, stir in some sugar, and return. I reconnect the cable, and the game says "Ready to resume". I click Yes, and the game picks up where it left off. Ignoring the bigger issue of evil DRM, if the game worked that way, would that, at least in terms of playing the game, be a pass of fail?

Ignoring the DRM, yes that would work. Isn't that how they actually said it would work? We didn't expect a "drop to desktop" anyway or that the game would somehow continue in the background (as in Mikhayl's third movie :haha:). But it's that pause that's annoying, even if for just a few minutes. Why can't they just allow you to start the game and play, but only be able to save in one save file... When you're connected, you can save in multiple files on the server. That would be a good enough incentive to play online but still allow people without running net to play, with the risk of insta-kill of course :haha:

Actually, allow me to explain:... I play at home on my rig and then need to go away from town for a few days. I connect my laptop for a brief second to the net and update my "autosave" slot. Then I go away and play on the road, in the hotel or whatever. If I do something wrong and die... game over, start a new campaign which will save in the same spot. But at least I can play... When I get back home, I can either continue my campaign (in case I didn't get sunk) or return to my previous campaign which is on the server. This would work if the autosave file is coded in a dll and not as an external file. THe game would recognise that it has access to the net and save in proper files when available. Hard to crack, easy to use

[VonHesse]

Pass... but barely.

I'd still be nervous about giving Ubi live and full-time access to my computer, but this might be enough to move me from the

"wait till it's in the bargin bin and DRM/OSP free" category

to the

"wait till the reviews say it's playable" category.

maybe :hmmm:

[THE_MASK]

"only one thing ever frightened me during SH5 and that was the DRM peril"
Seriously though , that would be ok i guess if there is no alternative .

[onelifecrisis]

I thought this was what was already planned for OSP, no? IIRC it doesn't exit the game when a connection is lost, it just pauses?

Neal are you suggesting that instead of pausing it autosaves (locally, I presume) and exits the game so that you can use your PC for other things and then load the game up later when the connection returns?

[magic452]

I say fail, you are choosing to get a glass of tea and therefore are picking the time and place.

If the server or what ever goes out as you are setting up a shot and as often happens, when you resume the escorts will hear you and come a runin'. Silent running doesn't always kick in soon enough.
Not a good thing. You might have spent an hour or more and it all goes to waste as how you have a DD right on top of you.

You either go back to an earlier save and try to find that big fat TF again or you could lose it.

Sort of kills the idea of playing no saves and dead is dead doesn't it.

Magic

[XLjedi]

I'm not sure what the point of the question is...

Pass or Fail on what? :06: ...a game autosaving?

[theluckyone17]

I still don't like it. In fact, I don't know how it would work any other way, without me screaming at whoever designed it in the first place. If my 'net goes down, it better save locally before it kicks me out. Wiping out a four hour tour just 'cause RR (Roadrunner, not Rockin' Robbins :D ) blips out for a few minutes would make me consider petitioning the President to invade France.

Actually, you know what's bothering me the most about all this OSP? It's the way Ubisoft went about it. OSP sounds like an alternative DRM method dreamt up by somebody out of touch with gamers, who found a "solution" to traditional DRM complaints. Then some slick marketing guy slaps some spin on it to tell us how it's going to benefit us, the gamers.

Now if Ubisoft had simply said "We've tried DRM in the past, and it sucked. Y'all were irritated at it, and it didn't really stop the pirates. We tried going no DRM with Prince of Persia, but our research is telling us that we lost a lot of money on it due to pirates. So we're going to try something new called OSP in the future... it gets rid of all the old DRM complaints (the need for a disk, limited installs, whatever), but introduces new limits (constant need for a 'net connection). From what we've researched, it works for most folk. We're trying to find some compromise for those folk who don't have a constant 'net connection, but we're not there yet."

If they put it like that, I wouldn't be reaching for my shotgun (hypothetically speakin'... I can't reach France from Upstate NY with my 12 gauge, no matter how blueneck I get). Instead, I'm left feeling a bit betrayed and rubbed the wrong way.

So no... saving locallly when the connection drops isn't really going to work for me. If SH5's out for a year or two, the modders are going like gangbusters on it, and the OSP is still around? I might be forced to. I might concede defeat at that point. Am I going to go drop $ on it at release when it's still got OSP on it? Nope.

[GoldenRivet]

To be perfectly honest... i have developed this opinion over time about the OSP (despite my hitler rant video)

I have officially been living in this residence for 13 months.

I can count MAYBE 3 times that i have been without internet in that time.

1. When the douche bag set fire to my car thereby damaging the cable... took about 3 days to get it fixed and the wire was re-routed under the driveway.

2. When the driveway was repaved due to damage to the driveway from said fire - the cable had to be pulled up and relaid, this took about a day to be resolved.

3. a weather event which knocked out power to my block for about 30 minutes - and i wouldnt have been playing any game OSP or not.

considering there are 9,504 hours in that 13 month period, and i was without an internet connection for a total of 96 hours 30 minutes.

this means i had a reliable internet connection for roughly 98.9% of the entirety of that time frame. :o

on the whole... thats pretty effin reliable

If it werent for a freak arson event... i would have had a continuous internet connection for all 9,504 of those hours less about 30 or 40 minutes.

if Ubi wants to use OSP to protect themselves from criminal loss... thats fine with me - assuming there is an acceptable degree of reliability on their end.

i still think there should be some sort of compromise reached to allow the gaming community to cut the umbilical cord to ubi's servers... but i also think it is a little late in the game for them to do anything about SHV's OSP issues before release.

for now gentlemen... i think that any of you seriously considering buying SHV should probably just bite the bullet and take the plunge.

for those NOT considering buying SHV due to the OSP issue... i encourage you to continue your struggle to the last man if need be.

personally... Im on a new mission that involves SHV but goes much beyond that... next month i begin the process of building a new $4,000 custom gaming rig, and if things go to plan, SHV will be the testbed for the new machine.

:salute:

[onelifecrisis]

next month i begin the process of building a new $4,000 custom gaming rig

I hate you. :stare:

[rascal101]

And the question is?

[dcb]

Sorry, I didn't understand the question. Actually, isn't this how the whole OSP thing was "advertised" in the first place? What's the news here, Neal?

* I'll wait with the vote until I figure out what this is really about.

[Sgtmonkeynads]

Let's say I have a copy of SH5 to test.
So, how is it, hypotheticaly ? :hmmm: Is there a hypothetical TDC ?:D
or if I somehow managed to show up at your doorstep, could I hypotheticaly play it ?

He he he, just kidding.

Does sound ok, but how can they keep all of our games saved, future mods and all?
They can't have that much space, can they? For all of us, 10 or 20 saves each ?
What is it they will save, just the user file, or the whole thing?

[martes86]

I voted "fail" on the assumption that this refers to single-player. No matter what, a disconnection should NEVER disrupt my SP gaming experience, because it's in NO WAY related to the internet gaming, and even if it does, it's easy to just save all data locally and when the connection comes back, synchronize the data, but always without the user having to be bothered about it or having to "pause". It would be a nice feat if it worked for multiplayer this way though. :DL

Cheers :rock:

[FIREWALL]

Fail When I buy a game I control it not, the other way around.

[rascal101]

Hi Mr. Neal,

Nice Post - let me counter

I live on the Central Coast in New South Wales, just 70ks from Sydney in Australia. You may have heard of Sydney - it's a major international metropolis with roughly 4 million people - about average by today's standards.

This very afternoon we had a lightening storm which knocked out my local shopping centre. I know because I was shopping at the time - Amazing when your local shopping centre all of a sudden goes pitch black at 2pm in the afternoon - You’re doing your shopping and bang - no lights, no EFTPOS, No EFT - no cash registers - the whole shopping centre is dead and it wasn’t even a major storm!!!

Any way and on with the theme

Last year you may recall our state of Victoria had a fire storm, you guys call them forest fires, we call them bush fires. You may recall the event I'm referring to – it killed over 170 people and destroyed a number of towns and hundreds of houses -

Ok this is a little extreme a bushfire doesn’t strike every Subsim member every day - but hear me out.

Just suppose for a little light relief and following such an event you might want to play a Ubisoft game. Previously with a disk install no problem, but you’re stuffed with the DRM because, if your local internet or broadband has been knocked out your stuffed - bugger off - no games for you with out the internet.

You may feel this is a tad extreme and perhaps it is, but the fact is that with non DRM games I'm not automatically excluded from playing the game as the game itself is not dependant upon my internet connection. With DRM it is end of story.

So having exhausted TV or books or whatever else to distract me from my tale of woe I might want to settle for a rousing session of SH5 - but with DRM - no chance until my local internet is restored, may be days, may be months. So why would I subject myself to the DRM bacause I know when the chips are down its unlikely I'll get mcuh satisfaction without an internet connection .

What I’m getting at is that the whole DRM thing seems to be predicated on a very Euro centric concept of what constitutes the internet and access therein - Sure I’m using a somewhat exaggerated example to make a point.

The DRM concept is utterly discriminatory against those of us who live outside a very narrow view of what's normal in terms of internet access or reception.

My experience today is not the standard - In truth it's unusual, it doesn’t happen every week - luckily I had the presence of mind to disconnect all my digital equipment - so I still have my broadband access, if the storm had burnt out my modem - which does happen - I'd be totally stuffed if I wanted to play Silent Hunter, that’s for sure!

The simple fact is that for those of us who live in countries where the weather, never mind anything else means a whole lot more than perhaps it does in the EEC - the DRM is a disaster and will loose Ubisoft customers.

Regards to all

R



Let's say I have a copy of SH5 to test. I install it, fire up a mission and after a bit, disconnect my cable. The game announces it does not have a connection and autosaves the game at the point I am disconnected. I have an option to wait or return later. I choose to wait. I go into the kitchen, make a glass of tea, stir in some sugar, and return. I reconnect the cable, and the game says "Ready to resume". I click Yes, and the game picks up where it left off. Ignoring the bigger issue of evil DRM, if the game worked that way, would that, at least in terms of playing the game, be a pass of fail?

[Kaleun_Endrass]

Not a bad idea in principle but as OSP still there so I voted fail
+1
Besides, that kind of pause is out of the users control. Sometimes I've only 1 hour to play before my girlfriend gets the idea of doing something else (together) and because my vista has some serious problem with keeping the WLAN connection up, I would get really pissed when the game stops.

[Letum]

I don't understand the question.

[Ragtag]

Fail, I will pause the games when i want to. Not because my connection fails or drops out. The only thing that can make me accept this is an offline option like Steam offers.

[danlisa]

When I buy a game I control it not, the other way around.

Likewise.

I own it, I want control over it.

[piri_reis]

Exactly, we have a pause button for going inside to get our coffee or eat dinner or whatever. I can save whenever I want and drop to desktop to do my work. It's a hilarious idea to Pause the game when my server connection breaks. So this great autosave feature would be a big old FAIL.

[Highbury]

To me that is fine. It is an upgrade over ROF's DRM which I already live with. If you lose connection you will lose all that you achieved in that mission.

[JScones]

Let's say I have a copy of SH5 to test. I install it, fire up a mission and after a bit, disconnect my cable. The game announces it does not have a connection and autosaves the game at the point I am disconnected. I have an option to wait or return later. I choose to wait. I go into the kitchen, make a glass of tea, stir in some sugar, and return. I reconnect the cable, and the game says "Ready to resume". I click Yes, and the game picks up where it left off. Ignoring the bigger issue of evil DRM, if the game worked that way, would that, at least in terms of playing the game, be a pass of fail?
I think you've picked up on a new selling point for Ubisoft...if Ubisoft get wind of this idea they will be marketing DRM as a pro-OH&S feature - "And in other news today, Brett Wilkinson, ex-Director of Ubisoft, stated 'No, you have it all wrong. DRM is not about anti-piracy, or anti-resell, it's about looking after you and your health. With DRM and its featured hourly dropout, we think that you'll really appreciate the reduced exposure to eye strain and neck pain. This is just another great example of how Ubisoft has your best interests in mind. I think most people won't mind this.'"

And in a true sense of irony, just as I pressed "Submit", Subsim died...

[It762]

Well its not only your internet connection but:

- Its the connection to the ubi servers and all servers in between (try to do a tracert on the ubi play servers, when we know the address)

- Depending also on the current load - If many ppl upload their savegames or doing something else that triggers communication with the servers, you might experience some problems.

- If sh5 has tab problems (unlikely) and you get some popups because of your failed internet connection maybe you computer will crash (or some applications like Sh5)

That's about all the complications I could foresee now :)

[Onkel Neal]

:) To aid in understanding, I have rephrased parts of the question.




And in a true sense of irony, just as I pressed "Submit", Subsim died...

Lol, yes, I know. That's why I am awake at 04:30am here. :)

[ichso]

What I’m getting at is that the whole DRM thing seems to be predicated on a very Euro centric concept of what constitutes the internet and access therein - Sure I’m using a somewhat exaggerated example to make a point.

The DRM concept is utterly discriminatory against those of us who live outside a very narrow view of what's normal in terms of internet access or reception.

UBI is probably just glancing on the success of MMORPGs like :dead::dead: World of Warsomething. Blizzard is (was?) making a fortune out of this even though many people around the world might have problems when trying to be online for a few hours.
Maybe people disconnecting every now and then from such games because of technical reasons is not that uncommon, which makes UBI suppose that it doesn't stop people from playing. And with WoW they even pay a monthly fee on top off all that.

[Brag]

Since the pause was a simulated server or ISP failure. It's a fail
Of course, people without internet or away from place with internet would never even have a choice.

[MercurySeven]

That's like asking me "Would it be fine if your car stopped on its own while you're driving it as long as we assure you that after you wait some time and maybe get a coffee and bagel you can just get back in and return your journey as initially intended?"

My response to the car dealer: "... ... ... No?!" :shifty:

Seriously, how much less effective can that DRM thing get if it lets me continue to play after the connection was lost? Or at least put a decent time period in which I have got to reconnect?

[Letum]

Yes, I don't see what advantage involuntary pauses are.
How does that improve a game?

[HundertzehnGustav]

Let's say I have a copy of SH5 to test. I install it, fire up a mission and after a bit, disconnect my cable. The game announces it does not have a connection, PAUSES game, and autosaves the game at the point I am disconnected. I have an option to continue waiting or quit and play later. I choose to wait. I go into the kitchen, make a glass of tea, stir in some sugar, and return. I reconnect the cable, and the game says "Ready to resume". I click Yes, and the game picks up where it left off. Ignoring the bigger issue of evil DRM, if the game worked that way, would that, at least in terms of playing the game, be a pass or fail?


technically it is a success.
But this time around you chose to "pause"
What if that happens and you do NOT choose to "pause"


My ISP aint asking me when i would like them to do maintenance...

And what about the savegame?
unplug, save game, quit game

plug in, load save,
- are u still surfaced?
-what happens if in a big battle?

Plus the privacy issues...

To me, adding 50 euroes every month to have broadband just to play the dang game...

Nope.

[danlisa]

Will I be able to un-pause the game with no Net Connection when I choose?;)

Ignoring the bigger issue of evil DRM, if the game worked that way, would that, at least in terms of playing the game, be a pass of fail?

Still a fail. How can we be happy that an external connection has priority over us pressing the ESC button to pause it ourselves?

I can't ignore the issue of DRM as what you are trying to describe to us is still DRM.

I don't want anything EVER to be tethered to my net connection. How many of us disable Windows Auto Updates, Auto program patching, even stupid things like Mr P-Clip in Office etc.....WE WANT CONTROL!

I'm getting a little sick and tired of this apparent "We will spoon feed and wipe your ass for you, you just sit there glued to your box" craze that seems to be infesting our digital society.

/rant :)

[BarjackU977]

Fail.

It's mostly SP. And for SP I don't want to depend on the availability of Internet, nor on the "good will" of Ubi to be able to play.

Online activations are lighter than that, but it's already a step too far in my view.
Fair enough if they promise to remove "online activation" once the game has a certain age, like with Bioshock, though.

[limkol]

I love SH3 but these days play slightly more SH4 u-boats with ops.monsoon. The thing that bugged me so much about SH3, when modded, is it has such long loading times. Many people have written about this and have said that you could make yourself a cup of tea or coffee or take a dump whatever, whilst it was loading up. Fair comments.

I could not be bothered starting SH5 up, pulling the cable out and resuming play. I've got my job:nope:, the cat needs feeding:yep:, the kids need whipping:wah: and the wife needs some kind of attention now and again:03: (or so I've read). My Silent Hunter time is valuable. It's 2010! I want a game that loads and off you go and blow up stuff!

Hope I've understood your question, Neal.
Happy hunting

[Brag]

Ubi's lack of logic. Playing offline we can have 3 sources of failure:

1 power failure
2 Computer failure
3 Game failure

Online:
1 power failure
2 Computer Failure
3 Game failure
4 Modem failure
5 ISP failure
6 Server failure
7 log in problems


Their whole logic is engeneering to fail

[THE_MASK]

Ok , i get it . Quote " Lets just say i have a copy to test hypothetically ". Iyay wontyay tellyay anyoneyay thatyay youyay haveyay ayay copyyay tooyay reviewyay Nealyay :03:

[piri_reis]

It should be the other way around:

The game should not need connection to Server to play.
You have the option
to enable auto saving to Server, (so you can load if your PC fails/electricity goes out)
to check/install updates from Server,
to participate in group stats, compare your tonnage w/ other users,
and whatever added feature they want.

So that these online features would give Additional Value to the game and be OPTIONAL, not take away from it, like adding more points of failures mentioned above.

[SubSim Skipper]

Fail,

I don't care about the save game aspect...I already have hard drive for that.

I don't care that I can put it on 10,000 computers most people only own 1 capable of the power needed to play it anyway.

I live in a major metro area and at least once a cox takes down the internet for maintenance (Usually around 3 AM back up by 5 AM-7AM latest) but that is when I play.

I also from time to time take my desk top to work to play (I monitor a small area very easy job for 12 hours and I can do whatever I want while I am there) but I have no Internet there.

I want to play when and how I want and above all of that I don't want anyone to have access to my P.C.

Fail! :down:

[Arclight]

Online requirement still there - fail

Not going to keep me from playing it, but definitely not a move that is appreciated. :shifty:

[Hitman]

Fail.

I want total control about the game I purchased. Not being forced to make a cup of tea while I wait, because I normally do not have much time anyway. So I want faster loads, faster resuming, and full control over my gaming time.

[Onkel Neal]

Ok , i get it . Quote " Lets just say i have a copy to test hypothetically ". Iyay wontyay tellyay anyoneyay thatyay youyay haveyay ayay copyyay tooyay reviewyay Nealyay :03:

No, sorry if I gave that impression, no review copy.

[Randomizer]

This hypothetical sounds like UBISoft's OSP working as advertised. Fail.

[Reece]

Well I wont tolerate OSP at all in any form for SP - Fail

[Hartmann]

considering there are 9,504 hours in that 13 month period, and i was without an internet connection for a total of 96 hours 30 minutes.

this means i had a reliable internet connection for roughly 98.9% of the entirety of that time frame. :o

:salute:

If i paid 100 % of the price i want the 100 % of the game, nor more or less.

also the 98,9 is in case of a reliable connection, some people perhaps only could reach a 70, 80 %

[piri_reis]

considering there are 9,504 hours in that 13 month period, and i was without an internet connection for a total of 96 hours 30 minutes.
this means i had a reliable internet connection for roughly 98.9% of the entirety of that time frame. :o
on the whole... thats pretty effin reliable


How do you know your connection was up and running all time, except those 3 down times you experienced? Did you have a ping going to your upstream router? Were you running somekind of interface tracking, monitoring utility?

See, I bet you had much more disconnected times than that. You just didn't notice.
- Your ISP's router got clogged, packets were dropped for a while,
- They had a scheduled maintenance time (in the wee hours of the night)
- Somewhere a fiber got cut, available bandwidth decreased, packets dropped again..
- and many more trivial causes can lead to it..

What if you were playing that night, had the next day off or whatever, you would get the NO CONNECTION window.. That would piss you off eh?

[JScones]

A "reliable connection" means nothing if the little box at the other end doesn't want to play with you.

Just ask all those with reliable connections that have been met with seemingly increasing "database errors" when visiting this site alone.

I have a reliable connection, albeit slow, but it hasn't seemed to get around the server problems that Neal's been having.

[Bill.Braskey]

I have been disconnected twice just trying to read this thread :damn:

Make that three times...

I've got issues :down:

[janh]

Fail, by principle.

Brag has a serious point there, which as a scientist urge you to consider in terms of statistics:
We every error source, probability of leaving you "steaming" at any time because you cannot play will increase: And such, as for any complex "machinery", this probability does not increase linearly with the number of error sources.

Since there are at least twice as many probability events of failure in case of online-play, or the new DRM, the time you spent waiting/fixing/cursing will not be only twice as much as in SH3/SHIV or other SP games, but much more...

I hate the tought, I have enough problems with connection speed/steadiness when playing "simple" multiplayer games. No thanks, UBI!
I bet I know a small Russian producer already who is pushing hard into the "naval sims" sector. And they'd surely pick up where you guys lost it...

[GoldenRivet]

See, I bet you had much more disconnected times than that. You just didn't notice.

if i didnt notice, whats the difference?

You see, any time i sit at this computer the internet is up and running.

be it to check forums, browse news, conduct business, (i answer dozens of business correspondences daily online, hundreds literally per week) facebooking etc.

if im sitting in front of this machine, the internet is up and running - period

My router is right in front of me. Status light and all to indicate to me times of inactivitiy.

now, if im asleep, or if im out of town etc

what difference does it make???

every single time i have sat at this keyboard and called upon the internet to activate - it has always done so instantly and without question . except for those three times which were beyond my control.

thats all i can really say

[CaptainHaplo]

Fail!

I voted and then typed up a post as to why - then lost it when subsim died. Speaking of - good to see the ship under way again! :yeah: Great job Neal!

Ok -ultimately this boils down to three distinct issues for me.

#1 - OSP requires the consumer to go online and register with Ubisoft, through creation of an account with Ubi.com - and this requirement will include specific information - such as name, age, sex, etc. (demographics data) that legally speaking, Ubisoft has no right to compel me or any other purchaser) to give them.

#2 - OSP will require an online connection - which means that all the times I choose to play - I must NOTIFY Ubisoft via the OSP, giving them marketing data such as WHEN, HOW OFTEN, HOW LONG, etc - I choose to play this game. Combined with the demographic information they have already gotten in #1 - this begins to create a picture of a demographic that is highly useful. Its also important to note that I consider the above matters no one's business but my own, and thus feel that this scheme is an affront to my personal privacy.

#3 - Many players disconnect from the internet when they play a game, because they also unload various other background applications (such as firewalls and antivirus software) so that they can use more resources for their gaming. OSP removes the ability of me - the consumer - to do OTHER THINGS to a PC that is solely owned by the purchaser - regardless of my desire to do so. This requirement in reality restricts my freedom of action to play a game I buy on a PC configured as I SEE FIT! Who the heck is Ubi to tell me I can't? Oh sure -I could sit online with no AV or firewall - but thats one really good definition of stupity.

I have to point to Stardock and their great form of tackling pirates. I buy a game, download it or install from CD - activate with my key, and also am able to get patches with my legitimate serial. Extra content, game fixes, etc - all require an online authentication - but PLAYING does not!

[Adriatico]

Sounds to me like:
> Would you buy a cake if waitress could suddenly stop your eating ... but she could remember what is left from that cake - and let you eat later on...

Well it's better than not eating at all... but still not my "coffy shop".

I should be very, very hungry... and "hypothetically" see the sign "Grey Wolf" coffy shop...

* * *

Sorry Neal... Ubi has a problem with a meaning "to buy something"

[THE_MASK]

Ok , i reckon that the game should be set up so that if it disconnects for some reason i can at least play off line from my previous save but wont let me save until back online again . Its a compromise , i know but better than not playing at all when its down .

I have the cake and the waitress takes it off me but at least i can vomit some up and eat it again .

[THE_MASK]

if i didnt notice, whats the difference?

You see, any time i sit at this computer the internet is up and running.

be it to check forums, browse news, conduct business, (i answer dozens of business correspondences daily online, hundreds literally per week) facebooking etc.

if im sitting in front of this machine, the internet is up and running - period

My router is right in front of me. Status light and all to indicate to me times of inactivitiy.

now, if im asleep, or if im out of town etc

what difference does it make???

every single time i have sat at this keyboard and called upon the internet to activate - it has always done so instantly and without question . except for those three times which were beyond my control.

thats all i can really say
The internet connection is not the problem , its the ubi servers that i would be concerned with .

[AngusJS]

Fail.


#3 - Many players disconnect from the internet when they play a game, because they also unload various other background applications (such as firewalls and antivirus software) so that they can use more resources for their gaming. OSP removes the ability of me - the consumer - to do OTHER THINGS to a PC that is solely owned by the purchaser - regardless of my desire to do so. This requirement in reality restricts my freedom of action to play a game I buy on a PC configured as I SEE FIT! Who the heck is Ubi to tell me I can't? Oh sure -I could sit online with no AV or firewall - but thats one really good definition of stupity.

+1

Also, saving near ships, ports or while underwater was never recommended in SH3. What happens when you're forced to load an autosave under those conditions in SH5?

[GoldenRivet]

The internet connection is not the problem , its the ubi servers that i would be concerned with .

like i said

assuming everything on their end is on the up and up... we wont have a problem

[Elder-Pirate]

Sorry Neal, "pause" be thrown to the wind, but giving me no choice but to connect to the Internet in order to play a game made up of pixels ( that I paid cash for of my own dollars ) just because UBI is not intelligent enough to ward off pirates some other way I must vote "NO".

Taking down the pirates is a yes vote but not at the Peril of the $ paying players.



And no remarks about my user name..........I'm a good pirate. LOL

[maurader]

Let's say I have a copy of SH5 to test. I install it, fire up a mission and after a bit, disconnect my cable. The game announces it does not have a connection, PAUSES game, and autosaves the game at the point I am disconnected. I have an option to continue waiting or quit and play later. I choose to wait. I go into the kitchen, make a glass of tea, stir in some sugar, and return. I reconnect the cable, and the game says "Ready to resume". I click Yes, and the game picks up where it left off. Ignoring the bigger issue of evil DRM, if the game worked that way, would that, at least in terms of playing the game, be a pass or fail?


I would have to say FAIL. Here is the problem I have with this example: So far, we are to understand that our save games are stored on the UBISoft server. But in your example this is the sequence of events:
1. Fire up a mission and play a bit
2. Disconnect your cable
3. The game announces it doesnt have a connection
4. Pauses the game
5. Autosaves the game....Stop right here

How is it able to autosave the game on the UBISoft server if there is no connection to the server?

[Task Force]

fail. lets set the situation.

your in the middle of a convoy, around ships. All of a suddent OAH NO!!! connection lost... so... ok, I can save... Save

"later that day"

Hmm, ubis servers are up. start...

Ok load save...

game starts

WERE TAKEING DAMAGE SIR!!! MEN DOWN ON THE DECK! WERE UNDER ATTACK!!!

Death screen...

Im pretty sure, like all SHs before, this game will have the save game bug, where when ships are around sometimes bad stuff happens... ya just never know.

[Ships-R-Us]

Heck, the meal in the kitchen was sounding pretty darn good, xcept for the brown tea and sugar part. Given Neals scenario I gave it a pass.

[Sgtmonkeynads]

Task Force, that is what I've said the whole time about the auto save. They have had how long to get it right and haven't so far, so why expect anything different now. I know that's harsh, but if faced with a known problem and not fixing it just shows bad intentions in the first place.

The old saying, "How mant times do you shoot yourself in the foot before you figure out that it hurts?" According to UBI, the answer is "Four , with one in the pipe."

[Powerthighs]

I don't know the specifics of how they are doing saved games but its common to have both local storage and storage on a server. The local storage is there for the case where reading/writing to the server fails.

[razark]

How is it able to autosave the game on the UBISoft server if there is no connection to the server?

Because Ubi specified that the game will save both to their server and your hard drive. When it has a connection again, it will sync the save on the server with the local save.


As for the scenario Neal posted, it sounds like the exact way that Ubi said it should work. I have no real problems with save games being on their servers. If it works, and works well, "pass".

I do still have a problem with the game needing to verify from a server over an internet connection the entire time I'm playing. I just do not see my time playing being dependent on a possibly bad connection, as well as their servers being up. I just see too many problems with the system. That's why I have to give it a "fail".

Also, sugar in tea? That's reason for "fail" as well.

So, one "pass", two "fail".

[Von Taticus]

This predicts that things go wrong at the most inappropiate time.

After hours of patroling or shadowing you decide the moment is right to strike, The fish are away, and a DD has detected you on radar, you react and start you desperate manovers to cover yourself, the pinging begins and is getting faster, and louder, your pulse is racing....................

Sorry but the connection to UBI has been.... (blah blah blah)

I at this point would not be thinking about a nice cup of tea...

UBI say that SH5 is all about imersion, but these interuptions will completley destroy that feeling for me.

I notice that UBI servers were offline for several hours on the 4th Feb. So if you were playing and run into one of these maintance periods, then a cup of tea wouldn't be long enough...

I have a permenant connection, but get small drop out of connection every day, 2 or 3 times... juts for a minute or so whilst the hardware reconnects.
So SH5 is currently a no for me however the games are saved. So I voted fail

Steve

[maurader]

Because Ubi specified that the game will save both to their server and your hard drive. When it has a connection again, it will sync the save on the server with the local save.


As for the scenario Neal posted, it sounds like the exact way that Ubi said it should work. I have no real problems with save games being on their servers. If it works, and works well, "pass".

I do still have a problem with the game needing to verify from a server over an internet connection the entire time I'm playing. I just do not see my time playing being dependent on a possibly bad connection, as well as their servers being up. I just see too many problems with the system. That's why I have to give it a "fail".

Also, sugar in tea? That's reason for "fail" as well.

So, one "pass", two "fail".


Actually I havent seen anything from Ubi that says it saves on your local hard drive. They actually tout (as if its a feature) that saves are done on their servers.
There has recently been several articles that have been poping up with reviewers doing internet disconnection tests with Assassins Creed II and they have said that - "all my progress since it last autosaved was lost."

http://www.bluesnews.com/s/107530/on-ubisoft_s-online-drm

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290

So for me that is a double-fail!!!

[Fantasm]

Ok. This is a first post from me on here... I had planned on buying SH5, but no longer....
My reasons:
1... I have glitchy internet... It drops a few seconds almost hourly... I would end up throwing the game in the trash if it died every time my internet flickers...
2... In the days of Internet Usage Caps, a game that constantly wants to update to allow me to play, plus wants to upload/download my saves could push me over my cap limit for the month.
3... If I move to somewhere that doesn't have internet ie cottage country, my game is now valueless...
4... Ubisoft may have good intentions, but many software companies have gone bankrupt over the years.... if the doors closed at Ubisoft, no one will be able to play this game ever again... and a bad press like this game is going to get over this protection scheme, could close the doors...
5... I don't want to create yet another useless online account... I have too many already....
6... I also may want to take my computer to a cottage for a few weeks. There's no internet in cottage country... Hell, there's no phone either... apparently there will be no SH5 there either...


On the flip side, what's to stop 7 guys from splitting on a copy of this game, loading it on their computers, and taking turns playing it from different locations? for example each guy picks a day to play or works out a timetable for when they can use the game when none of the others are playing.... I can see shift workers having a field day with that....

[Don_D_Dwain]

I am going to say FAIL. There is a better to do this. I have "Company of Hero's" by THQ. WARNING TO ALL, do NOT purchase that game. It is a very good game, but you have to be online to play it. If your system crashes before you can log out....good luck with trying to re-install a game already logged in. Need a New system, AND GAME. I got the new system, but this customer is sure to NEVER purchase ANYTHING that THQ puts its name on. So BEWARE. I am not computer smart, but if this is the same thing UBI soft is doing, it may very well be the last product it sells to this customer, and yes I am BASHING THQ, they want to protect themselves, and I want to PROTECT ME, since its MY MONEY paying for what I want. Now, I hope that wasn't too negative, and I do like SH series, have them all. Not very active in SUBSIM though, but now is the time to let the FACTS be known.

[Schultzy]

I didn't get chance to cast a vote as the poll is now closed, but I would have voted for fail.

[magic452]

On the flip side, what's to stop 7 guys from splitting on a copy of this game, loading it on their computers, and taking turns playing it from different locations? for example each guy picks a day to play or works out a timetable for when they can use the game when none of the others are playing.... I can see shift workers having a field day with that....

Very good point and I'm surprised no one came up with this before.
Wonder if UBI did???????

Magic

[jwilliams]

On the flip side, what's to stop 7 guys from splitting on a copy of this game, loading it on their computers, and taking turns playing it from different locations? for example each guy picks a day to play or works out a timetable for when they can use the game when none of the others are playing.... I can see shift workers having a field day with that....

:har:... I would hate to be the guy that gets the day when ubi do server mantainace.:damn:

[Schunken]

Ah well....

I watching a movie and at the most nerv-dead moment the commercial kicks in...:dead:....

...so I dammed this channel and never watch it again...nobody will do....

I can life with this...the first game that allow me to go to toilet and not pee my pants :O:

Andreas

[razark]

Actually I havent seen anything from Ubi that says it saves on your local hard drive.

Read more.

http://support.uk.ubi.com/online-services-platform/


Will all my saved games be stored online?
Yes! They will be stored both online and on your PC.

[Yak]

Fail.

If I wanted to play an online game I would play an online game. I want to play single player, where I don't require internet.

Simple. This is an absolute, 100% no sale for me, the first in the whole SH series since 1996.

When I'm overseas I don't have the option of connecting to the internet 99% of the time, and when at home i'm reliant on 3G which constantly loses reception in the house and from about 14:30 until 19:00 is borderline unusable with all the kiddies playing on the web and their phones which overloads the network.

Then there is the issue of cost.

[609_Avatar]

I am going to say FAIL. There is a better to do this. I have "Company of Hero's" by THQ. WARNING TO ALL, do NOT purchase that game. It is a very good game, but you have to be online to play it. If your system crashes before you can log out....good luck with trying to re-install a game already logged in. Need a New system, AND GAME. I got the new system, but this customer is sure to NEVER purchase ANYTHING that THQ puts its name on. So BEWARE. I am not computer smart, but if this is the same thing UBI soft is doing, it may very well be the last product it sells to this customer, and yes I am BASHING THQ, they want to protect themselves, and I want to PROTECT ME, since its MY MONEY paying for what I want. Now, I hope that wasn't too negative, and I do like SH series, have them all. Not very active in SUBSIM though, but now is the time to let the FACTS be known.

The easy solution to your CoH complaint is just play with your disk in the drive, no need for an internet connection at all, unless of course you are playing multiplayer... Try it, you'll see what I mean. If SHV was like this I would buy it no problem.

[Nordmann]

I notice that UBI servers were offline for several hours on the 4th Feb. So if you were playing and run into one of these maintance periods, then a cup of tea wouldn't be long enough...


This is unfortunately what is going to happen, it will be like playing a subscription MMO, only without the MM. Maintenance periods are a pain in the backside, who the hell wants a single-player game with such downtimes? Not many people I'm guessing. Bad move Ubi, bad, bad move.

The easy solution to your CoH complaint is just play with your disk in the drive, no need for an internet connection at all, unless of course you are playing multiplayer... Try it, you'll see what I mean. If SHV was like this I would buy it no problem.

Agreed. The only thing holding me back is this OSP rubbish, because I can pretty much guess how it's going to turn out.

[OakGroove]

Re. Topic.
Fail. I object the idea that a piece of "add-in" software dictates playing- and thus online time.

[scrapser]

Fail...for one good reason.

Remember the movie, "Westworld"? Where absolutely nothing can go worng?

[maurader]

Read more.

http://support.uk.ubi.com/online-services-platform/

Well its all good that that is what Ubisoft says. But what they say and what actually happens is two different things.

According to this article:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290

They actually tested Assassins Creed II (which has the same sort of DRM that SH5 will have).

"So I tried a different test: start the game while online, play a little, then unplug my net cable. This is the same as what happens if your net connection drops momentarily, your router is rebooted, or the game loses its connection to Ubisoft's 'Master servers'. The game stopped, and I was dumped back to a menu screen - all my progress since it last autosaved was lost. "

So personally I think I would prefer to believe the 3rd party reviewers over the Ubisoft propaganda. How many times have we heard the developers (whos interest is in selling more products) tout how well their systems/programs run only to find out that they never reach their promises.