IM New website just changed. Crew abilities.Twins gone?

[Sanuck]

Hello
have just been reading rants about crew abilities and the twins
when i went to the website Gone ?

[PhantomLord]

Yep... all the fancy abilities and the twins where gone. Wonder why? :woot:

[TH0R]

Thank God! At least something, although this isn't a reassurance we won't see it in the game...

[GoldenRivet]

They had rushed to open the site early due to an outcry from the community for information.

hence, there were numerous spelling and graphical errors because the site was rushed open about 3-5 days too early.

they are slowly getting around to correcting these problems.

now instead of using the same picture for multiple crew, the pictures have been corrected for example.

[Sanuck]

At least they havent left the building ?

[Brag]

Hehe


They must be watching us. :cool:

[Sailor Steve]

They had rushed to open the site early due to an outcry from the community for information.

hence, there were numerous spelling and graphical errors because the site was rushed open about 3-5 days too early.

they are slowly getting around to correcting these problems.

now instead of using the same picture for multiple crew, the pictures have been corrected for example.
How do you know all this? Are you a secret dev or something? Tell! Tell! Tell!!!

[PhantomLord]

Hehe


They must be watching us. :cool:

Be careful... ol´one eye is watching us :arrgh!:

[Letum]

Good to see they have a ear turned this way. I just hope it has been
removed from the game as well. At least with the realism options on.

They had rushed to open the site early due to an outcry from the community for information.
[...]the site was rushed open about 3-5 days too early.


Source?
Four weeks before release is hardly early.

[Sanuck]

Hope the guy who put it on the website did not
take it from the manual :oops:

[GoldenRivet]

Source?

Can't say :cool: haha

Four weeks before release is hardly early.

agreed :shifty:

[Mud]

Even this looks more realistic than what the crew abilities are ...... were? in SH5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI2RIB0xtFg

Mud

[TH0R]

1st (Erich von Dobenecker) and 2nd (Dieter Epp) Watch officer duties were added, what about 3rd...?

[GoldenRivet]

i think it will be a pleasant surprise to learn that some was lost in the translation.

active special abilities for the chief:

silence electric motors.

all this might turn out to be is setting RPM to 50 revolutions.

no magic involved there ;)

[Letum]

Setting the RPM to 50 is no more of an "ability" than setting it to 49,51,82,etc.

Why would that be listed as an "ability"?

[Webster]

Setting the RPM to 50 is no more of an "ability" than setting it to 49,51,82,etc.

Why would that be listed as an "ability"?

because you cant do that in most "arcade" games

[GoldenRivet]

i'll explain

remember in SH3 when GWX was released and all the N00|3s cried about how you set "silent running" and the speed drops to 2 or 3 knots and it goes ahead slow but the destroyers can still hear me wha wha wha?

and then the GWX crew says

"well in real life the chief would have had the option to set the electric motors to 50 RPM ahead to achieve maximum stealth" yadda yadda yadda

recall that?

I'm thinking this is Ubi's version of that little "tweak".

what i think was "lost in translation"...

...is that it was called an "active ability" or "special ability" for lack of a better phrase that the casual gamer would associate with.

call it what you will... i assume this is what the order achieves.

of course until it is released or we get definitive proof from the devs... its pure speculation, but i think it is REASONABLE speculation.

I mean... what else is the chief going to do? run back there and put all the pillows and bedding around the motors?

and how about the "ability" to "push the diesel beyond its factory limits"

field engineers CAN do this in real life.

factory limits are a "manufacturers recommended limitation"

in aircraft engines for example...

there are certain tweaks and field modifications you can do to a light aircraft engine which will add an extra 150 - 200 RPM thereby gaining 10 to 15 extra horsepower. (of course this requires documentation and approval from the FAA but still... possible to do it)

is it too "outer limits / twilight zone ./ sci-fi fantasy" to assume that our diesel mechanic is at least smart enough to perform some similar task in the field and boost engine performance even if it only achieves an extra 2 knots???

seriously?

i certainly think its not THAT outlandish.

perhaps the choice of "special ability" was a poor choice of words.

but you surely follow my logic.

[HundertzehnGustav]

we need to get this MW/50 or GM-1 thing in, that system with "laughing gas" that they used in the 109s and 190s... injected into the engine, it will boost the air fuel mixture...
but dont break the system, because then the crew :har:wont be able to do any:haha: silent running any more for the rest of the cruise:haha::har:

[conus00]

Hehe


They must be watching us. :cool:

They are WATCHING us alright but they, sure as hell, are not LISTENING.

[Schroeder]

1st (Erich von Dobenecker) and 2nd (Dieter Epp) Watch officer duties were added, what about 3rd...?
There are only two watches on German U-Boats. Hence there are only two watch officers.;)

[TH0R]

There are only two watches on German U-Boats. Hence there are only two watch officers.;)


Thanks for clearing up that for me. :sunny: I recall someone mentioned there were 3, but now that I think of it - I remember a discussion about SH4, which had 3 watches and how U-Boat add-on couldn't simulate two watches properly. :)

[Letum]

Regarding 'overcharging' diesel engines.

Yes, I think that is outlandish.
Aircraft engines where built with mechanisms to run them at speeds that
reduce the service time. They where designed that way. It wasn't some
modification or tweak. It was done in one of three ways; by removing
the manifold pressure limitations (i.e Spitfire V), by injecting methanol
and then water to prevent knock (i.e. P47) or by increasing the
supercharger speed and injecting cold fuel after the supercharger to
prevent knock (i.e. FW190).

Uboat engines had no mechanism to run them at speeds that would
reduce the service time. It is inconceivable how this could be changed in
the field or even at port.
You can't add anything to the motor as you don't have an injection
system and without a protective layer methanol would very quickly
corrode the engine (there was hardly enough chromium in Germany to
proof aeroplane engines, let alone uboats). You can't run the
supercharger any faster or your engine will just knock and there is no
point opening the throttle beyond what the engine can suck in.

Better fuel might help (the uboats got crappy fuel), but your hardly going
to sit there with a bucket of premium ready, even if you did get your
hands on some. How would you put it in anyway?

If it was possible and it was done, uboat.net would know about it.
It wasn't.

The concept of overcharging engines in general isn't wild fantasy, but
the idea that uboat engines could be, or where, overcharged is fantasy.

[Das Gespenst]

As long as they didn't get rid of Willi Pelz, I'm ok.

[GoldenRivet]

Regarding 'overcharging' diesel engines.

Yes, I think that is outlandish.
Aircraft engines where built with mechanisms to run them at speeds that
reduce the service time. They where designed that way. It wasn't some
modification or tweak. It was done in one of three ways; by removing
the manifold pressure limitations (i.e Spitfire V), by injecting methanol
and then water to prevent knock (i.e. P47) or by increasing the
supercharger speed and injecting cold fuel after the supercharger to
prevent knock (i.e. FW190).

one aircraft i routinely fly is "overcharged" without the use any of those methods. :yeah:

I cannot say for sure what the Devs have in mind... but i'm willing to assume that they have a plan on this matter that does not involve "magic" in any way shape or form

[Sailor Steve]

There are only two watches on German U-Boats. Hence there are only two watch officers.;)
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that the Obersteuermann commanded the third bridge watch.

Can't find it now, though, so it's just a memory.

[Letum]

I cannot say for sure what the Devs have in mind... but i'm willing to assume that they have a plan on this matter that does not involve "magic" in any way shape or form

Wanna put some money on that?
;)

[fromhell]

i remember in a tv program, a uboat captain, forget who, saying that while on surface, they used the electric engines as well as the deisel, to escape a convoy escort.
enyone heard of that?

[GoldenRivet]

Wanna put some money on that?
;)

sure.

$10?

I say there are at least a couple of things that can be done at sea by a knowledgeable mechanic to temporarily improve the performance of a diesel engine.

i dont care what machine, what computer, what device you are working with - there is always some way to boost the performance beyond "factory limitation" which is the exact language the ubi web site used.

I'm confident that this will only be effective for a short period of time... im also quite confident that it will not involve "magic" and that it will ultimately result in a gain of only one or two extra knots.

you wont see your Type VIIA cutting wake at 35 knots.:doh:

[Letum]

sure.

$10?

I say there are at least a couple of things that can be done at sea by a knowledgeable mechanic to temporarily improve the performance of a diesel engine.

i dont care what machine, what computer, what device you are working with - there is always some way to boost the performance beyond "factory limitation" which is the exact language the ubi web site used.

I'm confident that this will only be effective for a short period of time... im also quite confident that it will not involve "magic" and that it will ultimately result in a gain of only one or two extra knots.

you wont see your Type VIIA cutting wake at 35 knots.:doh:


OK, a $10 donation to subsim is fine by me.

If ubisoft explain what it is that makes the engines go faster and how it
was possible during the war (and thus no magic is required); you win.

If ubisoft don't explain what makes the engines go faster and/or it wasn't
possible during the war (and so it must be magic); I win.

If the feature isn't in SHV; it's a draw with no transaction.

/shakes.

[GoldenRivet]

OK, a $10 donation to subsim is fine by me.

If ubisoft explain what it is that makes the engines go faster and how it
was possible during the war (and thus no magic is required); you win.

If ubisoft don't explain what makes the engines go faster and/or it wasn't
possible during the war (and so it must be magic); I win.

If the feature isn't in SHV; it's a draw with no transaction.

/shakes.


:har:

Letum i like you but im no fool.

the entirety of our bet relies on Ubi explaining something? :haha: oh.... oh... oh... My sides!!! I'm crying!!! LOL

how about this... if anyone can produce reasonable evidence that increasing the performance beyond factory default - even if by a small margin, of a desiel engine at sea is possible.

and in SH5, once released, the mechanic doesnt just say "Jawol herr kaleun" and it suddenly happens.

then we have a deal

[Webster]

:har:

Letum i like you but im no fool.

the entirety of our bet relies on Ubi explaining something? :haha: oh.... oh... oh... My sides!!! I'm crying!!! LOL

how about this... if anyone can produce reasonable evidence that increasing the performance beyond factory default - even if by a small margin, of a desiel engine at sea is possible.

and in SH5, once released, the mechanic doesnt just say "Jawol herr kaleun" and it suddenly happens.

then we have a deal

i saw a guy do it on tv by pouring whiskey in the oil

what a waste of good whisky :nope:

[Sanuck]

Thanks goldenrivet
My first post and at least some positve thoughts
i agree that, well i hope this was a rushed translation job
i for one am looking forward to the new game, although i have great sympathy for those with internet issues, as i might at sometime and it will
make me mad.
Lets see what web updates follow :salute:

[fromhell]

yeah man:haha:

[GoldenRivet]

http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTBNotesPropulsion.htm

"For a short burst of high speed on surface, if the state of the batteries permitted, speed could be increased about half a knot by running the electric motors and Diesels simultaneously. "

[Nisgeis]

Well, hopefully the engineer would have done all the work whilst in the pen, where he could have the engine apart. There's little you can do whilst you need the engine to be available/running, other than inject more diesel. Diesels have a direct relation between the amount of diesel injected and the power produced, right up until the smoke goes completely black and starts ejecting unburnt fuel. That comes at a cost of fuel efficiency of course and if you run your engine at too high an RPM it can be damaged with joints parting / bearings overheating or melting etcetera.

In port, he could balance the crankshaft, polish the air intakes, check the injection timing, perhaps change the oil filter for a less restrictive one, perhaps if he wanted to change the compression ratio by capping the pistons. It depends what he had available to him. Things will come out of the factory to within a certain tolerance and can be improved.

[GoldenRivet]

Well, hopefully the engineer would have done all the work whilst in the pen, where he could have the engine apart. There's little you can do whilst you need the engine to be available/running, other than inject more diesel. Diesels have a direct relation between the amount of diesel injected and the power produced, right up until the smoke goes completely black and starts ejecting unburnt fuel. That comes at a cost of fuel efficiency of course and if you run your engine at too high an RPM it can be damaged with joints parting / bearings overheating or melting etcetera.

In port, he could balance the crankshaft, polish the air intakes, check the injection timing, perhaps change the oil filter for a less restrictive one, perhaps if he wanted to change the compression ratio by capping the pistons. It depends what he had available to him. Things will come out of the factory to within a certain tolerance and can be improved.

all very real possibilities.

we cannot know at this point if the mechanic will be "animated" performing such things. - im doubtful of it

but it can be assumed that these are reasonable things he could do to boost Diesel performance.

in addition to my previous post about daisy chaining the diesels and electric motors.

[Letum]

:har:

Letum i like you but im no fool.

the entirety of our bet relies on Ubi explaining something? :haha: oh.... oh... oh... My sides!!! I'm crying!!! LOL

how about this... if anyone can produce reasonable evidence that increasing the performance beyond factory default - even if by a small margin, of a desiel engine at sea is possible.

and in SH5, once released, the mechanic doesnt just say "Jawol herr kaleun" and it suddenly happens.

then we have a deal

That wording leaves no time limit.
You could just say that someone is about to provide evidence until the
cows come home.

I don't quite see what you don't like about my wording, but this removes
the need for Ubisoft to explain anything:

If anyone can explain the mechanism used in the war to increase engine
power in the uboat's engine, as simulated in SHV, within a month of
release; there is no magic and you win.

If no one can explain the mechanism used in the war to increase engine
power in the uboat's engine, as simulated in SHV, within a month of
release; it must be magic and I win.

If the feature isn't in SHV; it's a draw with no transaction.

In the event that there is disagreement over whether the mechanism
behind the effect in SHV is explained and possible, it goes to public
vote.

Agreed?

ed:
http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTBNotesPropulsion.htm

"For a short burst of high speed on surface, if the state of the batteries permitted, speed could be increased about half a knot by running the electric motors and Diesels simultaneously. "


Very well, if the battery power decreases during the diesel engine overdrive then it is explained.

[GoldenRivet]

deal... its only $10 afte rall.

but have you read the previous 3 posts?

there are several things a skilled mechanic can do to boost engine performance temporarily even if by a small margin.

[Schroeder]

@Sailor Steve

I belief there was only the port and starboard watch. Nothing else. But I'm not really an expert.

[Letum]

deal... its only $10 afte rall.

but have you read the previous 3 posts?

there are several things a skilled mechanic can do to boost engine performance temporarily even if by a small margin.

Done.


...whiskey?:doh:

[GoldenRivet]

whiskey is a new one to me.

but, if you have some, id be delighted to share your whiskey with me

[gum22]

@Sailor Steve

I belief there was only the port and starboard watch. Nothing else. But I'm not really an expert.

There were two Divisions (Seaman's and Technicians). There were two OR three watches depending on which Division a man was in, which job the man was performing, etc.

The IWO and IIWO were both commissioned line officers and members of the Seaman's Division. The LI (ie- commisioned Chief Engineer) led the Technician's Division. The Obersteurmann (<--ie Navigator) was IIIWO on most Type VII's. He was a senior EM. The Oberbootsmann (ie the Crew Chief or Chief of the Boat) was often tasked with being 4th Watch Officer. The IWO and IIWO both stood two tower/bridge watches per day. The IIIWO and OBtsMn split the other eight hour tower/bridge watch period between them (ie stood one each).

Gumby

[gum22]

Great Scott, it's been so long since I've posted my signature has expired! :o

[ReFaN]

The cook's portrait now resembles Markus, im scared.

[mookiemookie]

There were two Divisions (Seaman's and Technicians). There were two OR three watches depending on which Division a man was in, which job the man was performing, etc.

The IWO and IIWO were both commissioned line officers and members of the Seaman's Division. The LI (ie- commisioned Chief Engineer) led the Technician's Division. The Obersteurmann (<--ie Navigator) was IIIWO on most Type VII's. He was a senior EM. The Oberbootsmann (ie the Crew Chief or Chief of the Boat) was often tasked with being 4th Watch Officer. The IWO and IIWO both stood two tower/bridge watches per day. The IIIWO and OBtsMn split the other eight hour tower/bridge watch period between them (ie stood one each).

Gumby

RealFleetBoat User Manual v1.52 says "It reality, German u-boats had two watches: Port and Starboard. From 0800 to 2000 hours, the watches rotated every four hours. From 2000 to 0800 hours, the watch rotated every six hours."

[TH0R]

Diesels have a direct relation between the amount of diesel injected and the power produced, right up until the smoke goes completely black and starts ejecting unburnt fuel. That comes at a cost of fuel efficiency of course and if you run your engine at too high an RPM it can be damaged with joints parting / bearings overheating or melting etcetera.


Since I doubt they could have messed with superchargers or turbocharges (I don't know if U-Boats had them), the only other way is to advance the combustion - normally the ideal combustion midpoint (per Vibe) is 15-20° after the Top Dead Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Dead_Center) => for older Diesel engines with pre-combustion chamber. If you delay the combustion, and move the mid point (T) further back - you get what Nisgeis said. By moving it forward, or advancing it, pressure and temperature will rise in the cylinder, and with that the engine power as well.


By manipulating the combustion midpoint (T) you can either achieve max power, max economy or min. achievable emissions (engine and fuel dependant). I am guessing that they have set it for max economical efficiency (furthest range with min. fuel).


What kind of engines were U-boats using? I assume 2 stroke Diesels, judging by Diesel locomotives. If so, they had to be lubricated as well by adding oil to the fuel before it is injected into the cylinders.


So I am rather incline to believe that they could have squeezed out a few extra RPM by either manipulating with the fuel or oil intake system...


But that is my theoretical guess.

[magic452]

Older Diesel engine RPM is limited by a mechanical governor. They can be tweaked.
I have done so on many an engine. I am not that familiar with WWII engines but as a professional mechanic I have no doubt it could be done. Was it done? Who knows? You do risk serious damage to the engine if you go too far.

I seriously doubt that it is modeled in the game but it's possible to do.

Magic

[rascal101]

Depends on how far your numerical skills improved at shool


Setting the RPM to 50 is no more of an "ability" than setting it to 49,51,82,etc.

Why would that be listed as an "ability"?

[TH0R]

Older Diesel engine RPM is limited by a mechanical governor. They can be tweaked.
I have do so on many an engine. I am not that familiar with WWII engines but as a professional mechanic I have no doubt it could be done. Was it done? Who knows? You do risk serious damage to the engine if you go too far.

I seriously doubt that it is modeled in the game but it's possible to do.

Magic

All Diesel engines are limited in one way or another. Now days (cars) mostly because the transmission can't handle the torque, and with ECM. You can see that in car's manual on the torque diagram (I believe newer cars don't have them any more) - it is flat at its peek value for certain RPM range. :)

I too believe that governors could have been tweaked to produce few extra HP.

[gum22]

This reality of two watches "Port and Starboard" is not reality as I understand it. Technicians working as enginemen and motormen were divided into two watches. Seamen had a three watch cycle. Funkers had a "funky" hybrid watch rotation. I'll start a new thread on the subject so as not to hijack this thread any further.

Regards,

Gumby

[JScones]

There were two Divisions (Seaman's and Technicians). There were two OR three watches depending on which Division a man was in, which job the man was performing, etc.

The IWO and IIWO were both commissioned line officers and members of the Seaman's Division. The LI (ie- commisioned Chief Engineer) led the Technician's Division. The Obersteurmann (<--ie Navigator) was IIIWO on most Type VII's. He was a senior EM. The Oberbootsmann (ie the Crew Chief or Chief of the Boat) was often tasked with being 4th Watch Officer. The IWO and IIWO both stood two tower/bridge watches per day. The IIIWO and OBtsMn split the other eight hour tower/bridge watch period between them (ie stood one each).

Gumby
This is pretty much what I was just about to post. :up:

4 Watch Officers, with 3 and 4 being split between Nav and Bosun. 4 hour watches.

RealFleetBoat User Manual v1.52 says "It reality, German u-boats had two watches: Port and Starboard. From 0800 to 2000 hours, the watches rotated every four hours. From 2000 to 0800 hours, the watch rotated every six hours."
Seems RFB possibly misquoted from a David Miller book? :hmmm:

Reality was:

Seaman worked 8 hours duty, 8 hours sleep, 8 hours misc duties
Engineers worked 6 hours duty, 6 hours sleep (repeated)
Comms worked split 3 x 4 hours (0800-2000) and 2 x 6 hours (2000-0800)

On the surface, 1WO and 2WO did 2 x 4 hour watch shifts per day
Nav and Bosun 1 x 4 hour watch shift per day
Lookouts came mainly from Seaman stream doing 1 x 4 hour watch shift per day

As confirmed in the first two reference books I just laid my hands on:
U-boats by Miller, David
U-boat Crewman Of WWII by Williamson, Gordon

[gum22]

Spot on, JScones. To add to the references/confirmation for crew watch cycles, crew duties etc, folks can also see:

Type VII U-Boats by Robert C. Stern

Wolfpack by Gordon Williamson

and my personal favorite on the subject of who did what, when, on a Type VII...

U-Boat War Patrol, The Hidden Photographic Diary of U564 by Lawrence Patterson. This puppy follows Teddy Suhren (former IWO on U48) and crew on one single combat patrol in summer of 1942, the one on which he was awarded the Crossed Swords for his Knight's Cross and Oak Leaves. There was a Kriegsmarine combat photographer aboard U564 for the patrol and Patterson does an incredible job of meshing all of the photos with a great story of the patrol down to the tiny details.

In fact, it is my belief that the SHV Dev's have modelled the "character" of their SHV IIIWO after Stabsobersteuermann Karl "Sturkorl" Limburg, U564's navigator and "old man".

Regards,

Gumby

PS- One of my joys in SH3 is SH3 Commander. I've said it before- I'll say it again- THANKS for your utilities JSCones! They are indspensable and have literally added YEARS of replayability to SH3.

[Rosencrantz]

To JScones:


Exellent post, once again. However I doubt this:


Nav and Bosun 1 x 4 hour watch shift per day


I doubt if bosun was ever really in charge, unless it was actually "captain's watch", - which I doubt too. (As far as I know, it was usually only special ocassions, like leaving/entering pier, daily dives, and so on, when the U-boat commander took watch himself.) Could be author's mistake? :hmmm:


-RC-

[gum22]

To JScones:


Exellent post, once again. However I doubt this:



I doubt if bosun was ever really in charge, unless it was actually "captain's watch", - which I doubt too. (As far as I know, it was usually only special ocassions, like leaving/entering pier, daily dives, and so on, when the U-boat commander took watch himself.) Could be author's mistake? :hmmm:


-RC-


Bosun or "Number One" was actually in charge of the bridge/tower watch for 4 hours a day. He was the Crew Chief, usually an Oberfeldwebel (ie- an Unteroffiziere mit Portepee aka a Warrant Officer equivelent in US terms ie a Senior NCO in the Kriegsmarine). His duties as "Number One" sailor (aka "Chief of the Boat" in US Naval parlance) was to maintain discipline and order among the enlisted crew, maintain clothing and uniforms, maintain the general cleanliness on boat, act as Artillery Chief and to act as Fourth Watch Officer. He had a full plate of duties keeping the problems of the crew from reaching the level where they might require the attention of the Skipper, and he had the authority to deal out discipline.

The Bosun's battlestation aboard U564 was in the conning tower where he input information relayed from the Captain (attack periscope) or IWO (surface torpedo attack) into the TDC.

The Bosun also led a 4-hour tower watch. The IWO stood two tower 4-hour watches, the IIWO stood 2, the IIIWO/ObStMn stood 1 and the Bosun stood 1.

As far as whether or not he was ever really "in charge" I expect it depended quite a bit on the Boat. For example, in the Kriegsmarine, if a midshipman was aboard, I suppose the middy might technically be "in charge" of the tower, even though he was assigned to the Bosun or the IIIWO's watch as a lowly green lookout....

Gumby

PS- I'm gonna post a complete example of the watch cycle on U564 shortly in a dedicated thread...

[gum22]

To JScones:


Exellent post, once again. However I doubt this:



I doubt if bosun was ever really in charge, unless it was actually "captain's watch", - which I doubt too. (As far as I know, it was usually only special ocassions, like leaving/entering pier, daily dives, and so on, when the U-boat commander took watch himself.) Could be author's mistake? :hmmm:


-RC-

Doubt it was author's mistake since I have several sources which seem to agree. Bosun was technically a senior enlisted man, but in US Naval terms he was the rough equivelent of a Senior Warrant Officer and had quite a bit of authority on a Type VII, including commonly the duty to act as Fourth Watch Officer. I'm fixing to post a complete crew watch bill for U564, just correlating my sources at the moment. (Patterson, Gordon, Stern, Showell et al).

Regards,

Gumby

[Rosencrantz]

Hello, Gumby!


I'm familiar with Patterson's book about the Suhren's U-564. And there author clearly states that only IWO, IIWO and Navigator (Oberstuermann) were acting as WO, while bosun was indeed "number one of the crew".

Then there is for example Stern, who claims in his book "Type VII U-boats" that also bosun stood watches as WO, i.e. he would have been the fourth WO on board. However, I still doubt this. Or have you ever heard about US Navy CPO or Warrant Officer, who has driven a Fleet Boat on patrol or elsewhere? If I'm wrong, just get me straight.

What I'm thinking about is PO or CPO acting as WO while boat/ship is tied in the pier. As far as I know it's done all the time even nowadays, so why not 60 or 70 years ago, when many things were much more simple? So, maybe Stern got these two situations (enroute/in pier) messed? :hmmm:

Another possible answer to the question might be also that Bosuns striking on their navigator's qualification were given WO duties. But, as far as I know, Kriegsmarine was pretty much "no papers - no job" employer, i.e. if you did not have a proper qualification there was less chance you got the job. And I have a feeling that this was one big difference between, let's say, Kriegsmarine and US Navy, for example. Someone from Germany might be able to confirm this, I believe.


-RC-

[Brag]

I don't know about Kriesmarine. In various navies it is possible for an NCO or not a fully qualified officer to stand watch as long as they pass a qualifying exam. This usually requires a 100% passing score in rules of the read and a few other exams.

[TarJak]

Setting the RPM to 50 is no more of an "ability" than setting it to 49,51,82,etc.

Why would that be listed as an "ability"?Maybe they meant he had good hand eye coordination.:D

[LukeFF]

Seems RFB possibly misquoted from a David Miller book?

My data came from Uboat.net, where it talks about the radio room watch rotations, and this page from the interrogation of the crew of U-76 (http://uboatarchive.net/U-76INT.htm):

Bridge Watch

Prisoners stated that when the U-Boat was on the surface the watch on the bridge consisted of one officer, one petty officer and two ratings.

Engine-room Watches

The Chief Mechanician of "U 76" stated that there are two engine-room watches in U-Boats; each watch consists of three petty officers for the Diesels, four ratings for the electric motors, and three men in the control room.

The watches are from 0200 to 0800, 0800 to 1200, 1200 to 1600, 1600 to 2000 and 2000 to 0200 (German time).

W/T and Listening Gear Watches

W/T and listening gear watches in U-Boats are performed by two petty officers and two ratings. One of these four men is always on duty, keeping W/T watch when on the surface and listening watch when submerged. The two Petty officers are responsible for entering all signals in the W/T logs and for making out any reports. The two ratings act also as officer's servants, and help with meals.EDIT:

The final roster of U-76 at the time of its sinking consisted of the following:

Oberleutnant-zur-See: 2
Leutnant-zur-See: 1
Leutnant (Ing.): 1

Obermaschinist: 2
Maschinenmaat: 4
Maschinenobergefreiter: 9
Maschinengefreiter: 3

Funkmaat: 2
Funkobergefreiter: 1
Funkgefreiter: 1

Obersteuermann: 1
Steuermannsmaat: 1

Bootsmann: 1
Bootsmaat: 2

Mechanikersmaat: 1
Mechanikergefreiter: 3

Matrosenobergefreiter: 2
Matrosenobergefreiter: 5

[JScones]

@LukeFF: Engine Room Watches <> Bridge Watches. Having not read your manual, I don't know what you were trying to say, but someone here attributed it to bridge watch times, which is not the case.

@Rosencrantz: USN <> Kriegsmarine. I don't know what else I can say as you have read similar sources from reputable historians and still choose to dismiss them.

[Rosencrantz]

JScones wrote:

@Rosencrantz: USN <> Kriegsmarine. I don't know what else I can say as you have read similar sources from reputable historians and still choose to dismiss them.



Sorry, JScones, but I don't get what you mean? What do you mean when talking "similar sources"? Or didn't you noticed there is conflict between Stern and Patterson? Even less I understand your statement how I'm "dismissing them". Which them? I doubt if Stern is right - no matter about his reputation - and I'm more with Patterson. Why? Because most of the sources I have ever read agrees with him.


-RC-

[Letum]

I see that the website now lists one crew member as "Willi PelzRoyal_Oak".

:dead: Must be bring your kid to work day at Ubisoft.

[Brag]

I see that the website now lists one crew member as "Willi PelzRoyal_Oak".

:dead: Must be bring your kid to work day at Ubisoft.

Letum, that's the funniest :har::har::har::har:

Made me squirt a cloud of rum.

[Rosencrantz]

Letum wrote:

I see that the website now lists one crew member as "Willi PelzRoyal_Oak".




:oops: What next?


-RC-

[TH0R]

:oops: What next?


-RC-

Probably Josef 'ArkRoyal' Erdmann... :shucks:

[THE_MASK]

I see that the website now lists one crew member as "Willi PelzRoyal_Oak".

:dead: Must be bring your kid to work day at Ubisoft.
Why bother worrying about something that can probably be changed with notepad . It does look stupid though :oops:

[Brag]

Ubi's marketing is a laffaminute show. I guess that's why they consider themselves in the entertainment industry :haha::haha::haha::haha:

[Sailor Steve]

I would love to know what Dan & Company think of all this. Unfortunately they're not allowed to say anything, much less what they think.

Maybe someday we'll get to hear "the rest of the story". Somehow I doubt it, though.

[Brag]

If I was in the Devs' shoes , I'd be royally pissed.

Footnote.
When you Google Ubisoft SH 5 forums, they are lost in a jungle of people bitching about Ubi or DRM