Safe distance from destroyers to speed up submerged?

[MetalMania]

A little background - I'm resuming my first career war patrol after starting it around 6 months ago. I made a night intercept and attack on a small convoy of two large transports escorted by 3 destroyers. During the attack I sank one destroyer and one transport, but only managed to damage the second transport before I had to go deep and evade the remaining destroyers. About two hours later at what I thought was a good distance away, I came up to periscope depth to take a look. They were circling about 4500 yards behind, still dropping depth charges and firing what seem to be flare shells (though in one ridiculous barrage one of them fired something like 20 of them making a gigantic glowing blob in the sky). I went back down and continued running silent for a while and came back up for another look. The destroyers were barely visible in the scope at high magnification, too far for range to display in the position keeper (yes, I'm using auto targeting. Honest - I do plan on getting a handle on manual tracking and TDC, for now though I want to work on getting into good positions and running intercepts without worrying about it - for the moment my tracking party is really good:DL). At this point I cheated a bit (or a bit more for those of you who would say I'm already cheating with auto targeting) and went into free camera for a better look. One of them was still milling around in circles well astern, the other was well on it's way heading back to the damaged transport which was by now a distant fire and column of smoke on the horizon.

It looked like I had pretty well shaken them off, so I secured from silent running and battle stations and went ahead standard to open up more distance but remained at periscope depth. I don't know what the actual distance was to the nearest destroyer but I'd guess at this point probably at least 6000 yards. Simulation time was around 3:30am, so it was totally dark and there was no moon. A few minutes later I raised scope again and was more than a little surprised to see one of the destroyers dead astern heading right for me at 33 knots! Swinging the scope around revealed sure enough the other one was coming on full speed as well, but at a greater distance since it was almost back to the transport before turning around. I figured at least the one dead astern would be a candidate for a down the throat shot. I set a stern torpedo for 6 ft, high speed, magnetic exploder. I think he slowed to something like 20 knots at some point, I fired when the range was around 1900 yds still bearing exactly 180 - the torpedo would close at something like 65 knots adding his headway. It hit with a nice big splashing explosion right on the bow, but all it did was cause him to slow and turn momentarily. Otherwise no damage. Not sure what to make of that. Took another shot and missed as he stopped. So I dove deep and called it a night and saved the game at the start of what looks like will be another slow evasion session. I haven't even reached my patrol area yet and only have 8 torpedoes left (but thus far have bagged 3 big transports and a destroyer).

Sorry, I just noticed how long this post is getting - so my questions are what's a general safe distance to pick up the pace while submerged to put some more distance between you and the destroyers? I won't surface inside of 5 miles - but how far can they hear me while submerged beyond minimal speed? What probably gave me away - too much noise going ahead standard or would securing from silent running be enough? There's NO WAY he could have spotted my scope in the dark at 6,000 yards. Are "down the throat" shots a crapshoot, assuming you even get a hit? Should I have set a deeper depth using the magnetic exploder - I set it shallow since it was a destroyer? It appeared to explode right on target, and thus far in my experience one hit on a destroyer is usually fatal. All this one seemed to do was get the guys on the forward deck wet.

[ERPP8]

The best thing to follow is: if you cant hear them they can't hear you.
Wait till they cant hear you then wait a simulation time of ~30 minutes before picking up speed.
Tip: don't waste torpedoes; don't attack unless you're told to; avoid all ships until you're suppose to attack.

[Falkirion]

Once they've moved off I wait two hours before slinking back up to PD, making a survey and then surfacing.

But thats just my system.

[Platapus]

(yes, I'm using auto targeting. Honest - I do plan on getting a handle on manual tracking and TDC, for now though I want to work on getting into good positions and running intercepts without worrying about it - for the moment my tracking party is really good:DL).

This exactly what you are supposed to be doing. Jumping in to SH4 at 100% realism is a short cut to frustration. Plenty of time to learn manual targeting


At this point I cheated a bit (or a bit more for those of you who would say I'm already cheating with auto targeting) and went into free camera for a better look.

If it is a functionality of the game, it ain't cheatin. If using a free view camera was cheating, it would not be part of the game. :know:


Are "down the throat" shots a crapshoot, assuming you even get a hit? Should I have set a deeper depth using the magnetic exploder - I set it shallow since it was a destroyer? It appeared to explode right on target, and thus far in my experience one hit on a destroyer is usually fatal. All this one seemed to do was get the guys on the forward deck wet.

That does seem weird. Are you sure you did not get a premature detonation (Did you enable "dud torpedoes" in your realism settings). Usually one torpedo hit will sink or severely cripple a destroyer.

As for how long to wait, ERPP8 has the right idea. Wait at least 30 game minutes.

Of course Falkirion's tactic is even better. As a sub captain time is what you usually have plenty of. No one ever got depth charged for waiting too long after the destroyers left the area.

Good luck and good hunting to you!!

[Platapus]

(yes, I'm using auto targeting. Honest - I do plan on getting a handle on manual tracking and TDC, for now though I want to work on getting into good positions and running intercepts without worrying about it - for the moment my tracking party is really good:DL).

This exactly what you are supposed to be doing. Jumping in to SH4 at 100% realism is a short cut to frustration. Plenty of time to learn manual targeting


At this point I cheated a bit (or a bit more for those of you who would say I'm already cheating with auto targeting) and went into free camera for a better look.

If it is a functionality of the game, it ain't cheatin. If using a free view camera was cheating, it would not be part of the game. :know:


Are "down the throat" shots a crapshoot, assuming you even get a hit? Should I have set a deeper depth using the magnetic exploder - I set it shallow since it was a destroyer? It appeared to explode right on target, and thus far in my experience one hit on a destroyer is usually fatal. All this one seemed to do was get the guys on the forward deck wet.

That does seem weird. Are you sure you did not get a premature detonation (Did you enable "dud torpedoes" in your realism settings). Usually one torpedo hit will sink or severely cripple a destroyer.

As for how long to wait, ERPP8 has the right idea. Wait at least 30 game minutes.

Of course Falkirion's tactic is even better. As a sub captain time is what you usually have plenty of. No one ever got depth charged for waiting too long after the destroyers left the area.

Good luck and good hunting to you!!

[magic452]

That is one nice thing about this game, you can play it the way you like at that particular time, not cheating.
When you decide to ratchet up the difficulty you get a new game experience.

At 5 or 6 thousand yards you should be pretty safe to go faster but I do it under the thermal layer. Go to 5 or 6 knots but leave silent running ON, 4x TC When you turn it off you start to load torpedoes and that is noisy.
That and all the above by Platapus and Falkirion.

Magic

[MetalMania]

Thanks for the responses folks. I resumed my evasion last night and have to conclude I was just still too close when I secured from silent and poured on more juice - or at least should not have stayed at periscope depth and gone under the thermal again. Which leads me to another question - I know the thermal layer will help deflect active sonar from the destroyer back up, but does it help shield you from passive detection as well? If yes then I would assume it helps mask the enemy from your passive sonar too?

Another reason I thought I was far enough away the first time was that I couldn't pick up at least the closest one on sonar anymore - well next time around I found out why. Sneaky bugger was totally stopped, just listening for me, therefore silent. I was a little annoyed though when he started moving again - slow but enough to show some churning at the stern and a gentle wake - but his props still weren't turning and still couldn't pick him up. I didn't think Japanese destroyers in WWII had jet drives, hmmmm. But I played it extra safe and stayed slow and quiet until a radar check showed him over 5 miles and then surfaced to speed away on the diesels.

As for a premature detonation on the down the throat shot with the magnetic exploder, it sure didn't look like it. I've had those before but I even got a screenshot of this one from the free camera - it looks like it's right under the bow. Unless it happened really close and the speed of convergence between the torp and the ship just made it look like it was a genuine hit. If I find myself in that situation again I'll try setting it a little deeper and see if it helps.

Here's a random tip for a newer player like myself that might not be immediately obvious that I found very useful: before you surface, come to a depth slightly higher than periscope depth - say 45 feet. This will raise your radar mast above the waterline though most of the boat is still submerged. Your radarman will automatically start scanning (at least he does for me - don't know if this is normal or if I never turned off the continuous scan button before diving) and report any contacts. This can really save you if there's a plane in the area or if you miss something on the pre-surfacing periscope search. Instant range and bearing, and if you need to dive quickly you're already 97% submerged.

I have to ask though about part of ERPP8's response - "don't attack unless you're told to, avoid all ships until you're supposed to attack". Unless I'm missing something or misunderstanding you - nobody tells you when to attack. Do you mean avoid everything until you reach the assigned patrol area? Certainly I would prefer to have not missed on any of my shots, and I would not have fired on the first destroyer except it had repositioned from the far side of the convoy over to my side and was either going to run me over or end up driving right through my torpedo spread - would have ruined my whole attack. So I just stopped him right where he was and got my shots off on both ships. Unfortunately the one that sunk him probably would have sealed the deal on the 2nd transport instead of leaving it damaged. On the other hand in a previous attack I had a single hit on a similar transport that was enough to sink it, so it wasn't unreasonable to think 2 might be enough. The down the throat shot was intended as a defensive measure - he had a bead on me and was coming on fast with reinforcements on the way. I guess my point is that I'm not just shooting from the hip. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but understand why I should avoid targets of opportunity. does the game "punish" me for sinking targets outside of my assigned patrol area? At one time I thought I read to accomplish your patrol area assignment you just needed to hang around the assigned zone for 48 hours, regardless of whether you sunk anything (unless you are given a specific target or other goal). Other than that, it didn't matter where you sunk anything - so long as you did it you would be "successful". I'd think as long as I spend my required time in my big star in the East China Sea, and don't get killed, even if I don't get anything else this would be a pretty decent first career patrol. At least according to real accounts I've read. How the game ranks it, I don't know yet.

[ERPP8]

Yes I have to ask though about part of ERPP8's response - "don't attack unless you're told to, avoid all ships until you're supposed to attack". Unless I'm missing something or misunderstanding you - nobody tells you when to attack. Do you mean avoid everything until you reach the assigned patrol area?That's what I meant exactly. Don't attack to save torpedoes and avoid ships so you don't have to resort to using them. There's no "punishment" for firing out of your patrol area, but WWII subs only held about 10 torpedoes which have to be used strategically. I used to be like that before I knew better but it helps a lot. And when a intercept seems to go downhill, go deep and leave.

[Armistead]

Hard to remember everything about stock...if you're not using mods, but one torp usually sunk every dd, maybe a premature.

The one DD that lags behind usually is stopped, so it's listening. The most important thing is water conditions. If waters are calm, in mods they can hear 10,000 yards plus. Also, you don't know they're there unless you use cams, but sometimes no sonar contact, they don't show on cams, course you have the free cam.

I play often with cams and contacts off. What I will do is get a good distance, then turn at some angles to check my baffles. I'll then do a sonar sweep, then I'll stay at silent at 1 kt and come up to scope depth while hitting track nearest warship. That way the sonarman will let me know if something is coming.

I save my torps for merchants when I can. I just tracked a group for 3 hours...takes that long with contacts and cams off. Thought I had a perfect set up, but they heard me..here come 2 Type AB escorts and one Katori light crusier ASW...and me stuck in shallow water. Problem is you can't ID them until you can see them with cams off. I had no choice, so I sunk all three with DTT shots...lucky me, playing TMO 1.9. You don't want to get caught in the shallows with Type AB's on top of you...course I don't think they're in stock....

[Leandros]

Another reason I thought I was far enough away the first time was that I couldn't pick up at least the closest one on sonar anymore - well next time around I found out why.
Also, you should consider it's a great difference if you have your aft towards him and he has you in front. He's in your blind angle while you're in his best. This fact is only amplified if he is lying still, too.