I am now OSP (DRM) ready. [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

conus00

02-02-10, 09:11 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_Internet_access

Problem solved.

I have seen many of your posts about DRM and internet access.
I haven't reacted so far but I do have a question for you: Are you really that short sighted, ignorant or do you just try to piss people off?

I can't decide which one is it?

FACT:
About 35% of United States computer users are still on dial-up or have NO INTERNET ACCESS AT ALL!

Wake up! It's all peachy for you to sit on hi-speed broadband access but very disrespectful of you to make such a comments considering those 35%.
:nope:

Thomen

02-02-10, 09:18 PM

I have seen many of your posts about DRM and internet access.
I haven't reacted so far but I do have a question for you: Are you really that short sighted, ignorant or do you just try to piss people off?

I can't decide which on is it?

FACT:
About 35% of United States computer users are still on dial-up or have NO INTERNET ACCESS AT ALL!

Wake up! It's all peachy for you to sit on hi-speed broadband access but very disrespectful of you to make such a comments considering those 35%.
:nope:

It's even worse.. only roughly 35% (+/- some) have broadband.. :hmmm:
Real numbers somewhere here in the forum..

EDIT:

Well, lets see how many people in the US had broadband by June 09?

Quote:
79,014,100 Internet broadband connections as of June/09, per ITU

compared to:

Quote:
227,719,000 Internet users as of Aug/09, 74.1% penetration, N-O.

Nickolas

02-02-10, 09:25 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_Internet_access

Problem solved.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9056/trenken.jpg

problem solved

Onkel Neal

02-03-10, 12:00 AM

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/646/70057190.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/70057190.jpg/)

Lol, awesome.

Except for the people who cannot receive cable due to location or finances.

... But as long as YOU get to play, to hell with everyone else, right?

What about people who cannot afford a computer? Electricity?

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 12:03 AM

What about people who cannot afford a computer? Electricity?

Yer, I tried making this point in another thread already. Fell on deaf ears.

Onkel Neal

02-03-10, 12:07 AM

I'm ready
http://img.slate.com/media/82/TP.jpg

TarJak

02-03-10, 02:43 AM

I'm not. Where do I plug this thing in?:hmmm:

http://www.onlineshop.com.sg/images/IMTC0053.jpg

Adriatico

02-03-10, 03:45 AM

Ubi is testing alternative DRM system for regions without broadbend !

But somebody has lost the manual...

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1057/ubia.jpg

Anybody has spare one ?
:timeout:

martes86

02-03-10, 04:03 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_Internet_access

Problem solved.

Oh really? Then PLEASE, take out your wallet and start making some big investments in infrastructures for contryside small towns and disconnected neighbourhoods. Or give me enough money to get "mobile" cable to that I can transfer my cable connection at home to my grandma's for sundays, or to my uncle's on summers when I'm on vacation.

Sure the amount of DRM posts is getting silly now, but telling everyone to suck it up and get cable doesn't help, unless you have a working tangible solution, which you don't.

Letum

02-03-10, 04:08 AM

What about people who cannot afford a computer? Electricity?

Computers and electricity are needed for single player gaming.
They are essential for single player gaming in fact.

The following are not needed to play a single player game:

A driving license
Multiple players
A commission from the Kreigsmarine
A constant internet connection
A diet of tinned food and sausage
20/20 vision
Two monitors
Satellite TV

If one of these things is needed; something has gone wrong.
If it's not needed, then those who don't have it shouldn't need it (obviously!).

Alex

02-03-10, 04:44 AM

I'm ready
http://img.slate.com/media/82/TP.jpg

LOL http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/Panzer_Kamerad/smileys/Mrglasses.png :yep:

danlisa

02-03-10, 04:53 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_Internet_access

Problem solved.

Some people really are oblivious to things outside of their own door.:nope:

In the UK alone:

Only 70% of UK residents have access to ASDL broadband. Of those, only 45% are on advertised line speeds faster than 2mb/sec.

Cable Internet/Infrastructure is only available to < 50% of UK residents.

The UK government has only just pledged to ensure that 100% of residents will have access to a ADSL that is 2mb/sec minimum within the next 2 years.

TarJak

02-03-10, 05:53 AM

Don;t get me started on the situation down under either. If you are anywhere outside a major metroplitan area you will be lucky to get broadband of any kind and the much vaunted NBN is still years away.:nope:

Brag

02-03-10, 06:09 AM

I wonder how much Ubi is paying Trenken for spouting rubbishl

msalama

02-03-10, 06:39 AM

I wonder how much Ubi is paying Trenken for spouting rubbishl

Or maybe he's just an outspoken person with opinions vastly different from ours?

Look, I don't like the DRM either and will if not refrain from buying the game altogether, then at least have a wait-and-see attitude for a loooong time still. But to imply we've some - what? - secret UBI agents amongst us is IMHO a bit rich regardless...

Live and let, erm, rant, eh? ;)

IanC

02-03-10, 07:45 AM

Ready!

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/545/64360794.jpg

Onkel Neal

02-03-10, 08:48 AM

Or maybe he's just an outspoken person with opinions vastly different from ours?

Look, I don't like the DRM either and will if not refrain from buying the game altogether, then at least have a wait-and-see attitude for a loooong time still. But to imply we've some - what? - secret UBI agents amongst us is IMHO a bit rich regardless...

Live and let, erm, rant, eh? ;)

:sign_yeah:

sharkattack76

02-03-10, 09:19 AM

PhantomLord

02-03-10, 09:32 AM

well if you don't have permanent internet access tough luck. Now a days who hasn't got permanent internet access? In what country do you live?
Guess that you'll not be playing SH5 then.
Get over it!
It's not the end of the world.:salute:

Aha... i´ll write a letter to my provider. Germany is a hightech country, not the third world! So come on! Give me 16Mbit in every room, up- and download please.
I tell you what... I sit here near the big big city of Berlin. And it was a year long fight to finally have DSL here.
In which country i live in??? In a country where all providers count there money.
"It´s too far away, too little amount of customers here out in the green. It´s not worth it to connect them." That´s the thing... here, in the UK, in the US, everywhere

Brag

02-03-10, 10:16 AM

well if you don't have permanent internet access tough luck. Now a days who hasn't got permanent internet access? In what country do you live?
Guess that you'll not be playing SH5 then.
Get over it!
It's not the end of the world.:salute:

You should join Trenken and sing a duet of:

I love to be Chained to Big Brother

:haha::haha::haha:

martes86

02-03-10, 10:35 AM

well if you don't have permanent internet access tough luck. Now a days who hasn't got permanent internet access?

My granma, for one. :shifty:

In what country do you live?

Spain. :hmmm:

trenken

02-03-10, 10:53 AM

well if you don't have permanent internet access tough luck. Now a days who hasn't got permanent internet access? In what country do you live?
Guess that you'll not be playing SH5 then.
Get over it!
It's not the end of the world.:salute:

It's a waste of time. It's the year 2010 and you can get internet all over the world. I doubt you even need broadband to play SH5, the server is not streaming the game to you.

The only people that have a good reason to complain about DRM are the ones UNABLE to get internet, and in that case you really picked the wrong hobby to get into.

If you can get the internet, but cant afford it, seriously, what the hell are you doing playing PC games? Im pretty damn sure most people playing PC games these days that could afford to build a machine to even run these games have the freaking internet.

This site is like a trip into the mid-90s where people on the internet where rich and basically from the future. Little different now guys, if you cant deal with this game having to connect then go buy a board game or something, its more up your alley I think.

I love this site, Im very excited about SH5, but this board is a cell pool. I cant even post a positive thing about this game without being attacked. 10 year olds telling me I work for ubi just because im positive and excited for the game. Grow up already. Are there any mods here? Is it humanly possible to get these DRM topics merged? Jesus.

PhantomLord

02-03-10, 10:57 AM

Indeed... it´s a waste of time... :nope:

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 11:04 AM

http://www.thespeakersblog.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/12/spartan_phalanx_2.jpg

OH ES PEE!!! Come and get us! We're ready!

BTW, am I the only one that considers 300 to be one of the best action movies ever? I mean c'mooon! Just look at it

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/03/08/movies/300span,0.jpg

Sorry, sorry... My Rome Total War addiction has been resurfacing lately.

PhantomLord

02-03-10, 11:28 AM

GREY WOLF 3

02-03-10, 11:31 AM

It's a waste of time. It's the year 2010 and you can get internet all over the world. I doubt you even need broadband to play SH5, the server is not streaming the game to you.

The only people that have a good reason to complain about DRM are the ones UNABLE to get internet, and in that case you really picked the wrong hobby to get into.

If you can get the internet, but cant afford it, seriously, what the hell are you doing playing PC games? Im pretty damn sure most people playing PC games these days that could afford to build a machine to even run these games have the freaking internet.

This site is like a trip into the mid-90s where people on the internet where rich and basically from the future. Little different now guys, if you cant deal with this game having to connect then go buy a board game or something, its more up your alley I think.

I love this site, Im very excited about SH5, but this board is a cell pool. I cant even post a positive thing about this game without being attacked. 10 year olds telling me I work for ubi just because im positive and excited for the game. Grow up already. Are there any mods here? Is it humanly possible to get these DRM topics merged? Jesus.

I cant even post a positive thing about this game without being attacked. 10 year olds telling me I work for ubi just because im positive and excited for the game.

This 10 year old is 61 your coments do not reflexed all people,to you IM ALL RIGHT JACK SOD YOU.
Just carry on living in your sad little world.:zzz:

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 11:34 AM

I cant even post a positive thing about this game without being attacked. 10 year olds telling me I work for ubi just because im positive and excited for the game.

This 10 year old is 61 your coments do not reflexed all people,to you IM ALL RIGHT JACK SOD YOU.
Just carry on living in your sad little world.:zzz:

Wasn't there a forum rule about not provoking Trenken? Some guys never learn :nope:

Anyway, I'm gonna get my popcorn... be right back.

Galanti

02-03-10, 11:36 AM

Sorry, sorry... My Rome Total War addiction has been resurfacing lately.

I'm trying to keep mine at bay until Roma Surrectum 2 is released.

trenken

02-03-10, 11:38 AM

Wasn't there a forum rule about not provoking Trenken? Some guys never learn :nope:

Anyway, I'm gonna get my popcorn... be right back.

Im not provoked into anything, I just thought we were allowed to talk some positivity about this game, and express our excitement for it on this site.

Apparently thats not allowed here because when you do it, you get 25 people telling you you're a troll, that you must work for ubi. You cant actually be legitimately excited for the game without getting attacked by this board, and the mods do nothing about it.

How ridiculous is that? The fact that these are grown men doing this is embarassing.

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 11:48 AM

Im not provoked into anything, I just thought we were allowed to talk some positivity about this game, and express our excitement for it on this site.

Apparently thats not allowed here because when you do it, you get 25 people telling you you're a troll, that you must work for ubi. You cant actually be legitimately excited for the game without getting attacked by this board, and the mods do nothing about it.

How ridiculous is that? The fact that these are grown men doing this is embarassing.

I'm excited about the game too. I for one am not thinking about you as a troll. You have a very strong opinion and you never fail to remind us about it every time. It's just that as you must've seen, you really are the only one that actually LIKES this OSP thing. Or at least you appear to do. And it's your way of dismissing people who don't have a stable net that prompted me to use the word "provoke". :salute:

trenken

02-03-10, 11:56 AM

I'm excited about the game too. I for one am not thinking about you as a troll. You have a very strong opinion and you never fail to remind us about it every time. It's just that as you must've seen, you really are the only one that actually LIKES this OSP thing. Or at least you appear to do. And it's your way of dismissing people who don't have a stable net that prompted me to use the word "provoke". :salute:

Just because Ive played games that use it, always works great for me. If people are allowed to trash it here, then I sure as hell should be able to defend you. I have that right if they have the right to trash it in every thread. And I actually love the save file being on the server, so yeah, im a fan.

I think I should be allowed to like things even if other people dont, no? I see the same people here everyday complaining about it in many threads, constantly making new ones, flooding the entire board, flaming me for liking it. If I'm in the wrong expressing my excitement for this game, my favortism towards DRM games, then I would think they are in the wrong too for trashing it and flaming people that like it.

It's just a one way street here. Most people here either dont have internet or have never played a DRM game, im one of the few I guess that apprently has both, so im the bad guy I guess. Real mature behavior there.

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 12:11 PM

I think I should be allowed to like things even if other people dont, no? I see the same people here everyday complaining about it in many threads, constantly making new ones, flooding the entire board, flaming me for liking it.
I agree on this one, luckily the DRM flame has died down a bit. It was becoming boring. Unfortunately it has not been replaced by optimistic threads :wah:

Just because Ive played games that use it, always works great for me.

Trust, me 99% of the people here would take you much more seriously if you wouldn't say that again. You have not played games that use OSP. Again and again you're giving the impression that you can't tell a copy protection from an mmo account. Let that rest. Here, I'll help you:

- Having saved games on the server is safer than on your PC... ok, fine by that, I just hope that corrupted saves will not be uploaded to the server too. Plus, do you REALLY care that much about save games in SH? I started and ended 100+ careers... And does your HD burn often?
- Being able to play on any PC that has the game. Ok... but it's practical but completely useless. Not a lot of folks have more than one computer which can play such a modern game. I have 6 computers. A P2, two P4, a P4 laptop, a dual core laptop and this quad core. I can only play SH5 on the last two and transferring saves with a usb stick isn't that difficult.
- OSP will be the future of copy protection.... I perfectly agree with that assumption. UNLESS the game is cracked in the first week. In that case, UBI will find itself in the midst of the biggest marketing blunder EVER.
- OPS might actually work great and we might come to love it... doubt it, but it's a possibility. As with other "features" of the game, I'll make a judgment after I buy and play it.

Webster

02-03-10, 12:14 PM

Just because Ive played games that use it, always works great for me. If people are allowed to trash it here, then I sure as hell should be able to defend you. I have that right if they have the right to trash it in every thread. And I actually love the save file being on the server, so yeah, im a fan.

I think I should be allowed to like things even if other people dont, no? I see the same people here everyday complaining about it in many threads, constantly making new ones, flooding the entire board, flaming me for liking it. If I'm in the wrong expressing my excitement for this game, my favortism towards DRM games, then I would think they are in the wrong too for trashing it and flaming people that like it.

It's just a one way street here. Most people here either dont have internet or have never played a DRM game, im one of the few I guess that apprently has both, so im the bad guy I guess. Real mature behavior there.

i think its more of a case of you defending what some people see as an unwanted intrusion into their life

this DRM thing is like a subject you cant argue because those with the power "game companies" arent listening so people feel like they are being dismissed and there voices arent being heard.

now you come along to defend them and suddenly there is an actual real person they can vent their frustrations on so they direct their anger over DRM into a dislike of what you say and the more you say in favor of it the more their frustration grows that you cannot see it from their view.

in all of this the "game" itself is lost and forgotten and its become a format issue weather the game should be online or offline and sh5 isnt even really relevent to the discussion anymore

Nisgeis

02-03-10, 12:19 PM

The only people that have a good reason to complain about DRM are the ones UNABLE to get internet, and in that case you really picked the wrong hobby to get into.

That's not exactly right. As it has been explained, you need your internet connection to be up 100% of the time. There is no such thing as 100% uptime for internet connections and there is also no such thing as 100% uptime for servers. There will be downtime and during it you will not be able to play.

Also, why would Ubisoft choose to deliberately narrow it's customer base? Why would a wookie live on Endor? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense!

PhantomLord

02-03-10, 12:21 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_Internet_access

Problem solved.

It's a waste of time. It's the year 2010 and you can get internet all over the world. I doubt you even need broadband to play SH5, the server is not streaming the game to you.

The only people that have a good reason to complain about DRM are the ones UNABLE to get internet, and in that case you really picked the wrong hobby to get into.

If you can get the internet, but cant afford it, seriously, what the hell are you doing playing PC games? Im pretty damn sure most people playing PC games these days that could afford to build a machine to even run these games have the freaking internet.

Is that mature behaviour?

GREY WOLF 3

02-03-10, 12:39 PM

Wasn't there a forum rule about not provoking Trenken? Some guys never learn :nope:

Anyway, I'm gonna get my popcorn... be right back.

But when the record gets stuck in the same groove (sorry its cd im not up to Trenken standards:03:) you have posted the same thing on sevarel sites,the response being they are bored with it.

So from now on lets live by Trenkens rules SOD YOU IM ALL RIGHT JACK.
:har::har::har::har:

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 12:56 PM

Trenken may make is point a bit harshly at times but I think it's a fair point, and one that repeatedly falls on deaf ears despite what appears to me to be pretty flawless logic. Crying about an always-on internet connection is no different than crying about a high CPU or GPU requirement. If you don't meet the required specs for the game then don't buy the game. Or if you do meet the required specs but you don't want to put up with any server downtime at all, then don't buy the game. It's pretty simple really. Have Ubisoft misjudged the PC specifications (and downtime tolerance) of the average gamer? We'll see. I'd say, judging by the success of WoW, that they have not.

Galanti

02-03-10, 12:59 PM

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 01:02 PM

You're correct, but to a degree. My main criticism of the scheme is not reliance on my own connection, but the Ubi servers. If they go down, how can I control that? Whereas I can always sell my child to Gypsies and upgrade my rig.

I don't dispute that point, but seeing as we have no idea yet just how stable the servers will be it seems daft to make assumptions one way or the other. You can't say "I'm not buying the game because UBI's servers suck" when you don't actually know yet whether they suck or not.

Galanti

02-03-10, 01:04 PM

I don't dispute that point, but seeing as we have no idea yet just how stable the servers will be it seems daft to make assumptions one way or the other. You can't say "I'm not buying the game because UBI's servers suck" when you don't actually know yet whether they suck or not.

I'm willing to bet they will suck.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 01:06 PM

I'm willing to bet they will suck.

And use that bet as a basis for endless complaints until you find out whether you won the bet or not?

Nisgeis

02-03-10, 01:14 PM

And use that bet as a basis for endless complaints until you find out whether you won the bet or not?

Well, as you brought up a comparisson with WoW earlier, WoW servers have regular maintenance downtime periods. Usually Tuesday morning (depending on your TZ) for a few hours. Sometimes they don't come up on time due to problems. When there is a patch released there is also an extended downtime period to implement the changes required on the server for the new patch. Other online games are much the same. I don't know of any that don't have regular scheduled donwtime. Now it makes sense to not be able to play an online game if the online servers are down, but not so much when it's a single player game.

Galanti

02-03-10, 01:18 PM

And use that bet as a basis for endless complaints until you find out whether you won the bet or not?

I've some reports of Ubi server outages. But I'll concede we just won't know until March or so.

Look, if I lose the bet, I will gladly eat my own words. I want this thing to succeed, like most people here. But again, my point is that most people here have some measure of control of their own boxes. We're being held hostage more by the Ubi servers.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 01:18 PM

Well, as you brought up a comparisson with WoW earlier, WoW servers have regular maintenance downtime periods. Usually Tuesday morning (depending on your TZ) for a few hours. Sometimes they don't come up on time due to problems. When there is a patch released there is also an extended downtime period to implement the changes required on the server for the new patch. Other online games are much the same. I don't know of any that don't have regular scheduled donwtime. Now it makes sense to not be able to play an online game if the online servers are down, but not so much when it's a single player game.

I don't doubt that the servers will have some downtime. I do doubt that they will need as much maintenance (and, therefore, as much downtime) as the servers that run the worlds largest MMO. Ubisoft are not releasing any MMO's AFAIK. All their servers have to do is authenticate logins and send and receive saved game data.

In any case, whether it "makes sense" or not isn't the issue. The issue is whether or not people will put up with a reasonable amount of server maintenance, and every successful MMO is testament to the fact that - for a good game - they will.

Vanagen

02-03-10, 01:23 PM

All lies.

http://themachineisus.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/the-internet-a-series-of-tubes.jpg

Letum

02-03-10, 01:26 PM

The difference being, that for a online game, the down time is
necessary. For a singleplayer game it is not.

It's far more annoying not to be use a game because something you
don't need or want in the first place is being maintained.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 01:28 PM

The difference being, that for a online game, the down time is
necessary. For a singleplayer game it is not.

And how does that make any difference whatsoever? To the player it's the same either way.

Webster

02-03-10, 01:32 PM

And how does that make any difference whatsoever? To the player it's the same either way.

because multi player online games are bought and understood to go along with all the headaches and problems of the online connection but single player games have always been offline and it is a given and it is understood that they are free of those intrusive and demanding restrictions of online play.

Nisgeis

02-03-10, 01:32 PM

And how does that make any difference whatsoever? To the player it's the same either way.

No it's not. For one, it's 'I can't play on the server because the server is down. I'll wait until the server is up.' The other is 'I can't play on my own PC, because the server is down? What's that about?!'. The latter would be MUCH more annoying.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 01:35 PM

because multi player online games are bought and understood to go along with all the headaches and problems of the online connection but single player games have always been offline and it is a given and it is understood that they are free of those intrusive and demanding restrictions of online play.

It was once given and understood that the world is flat. Things change.

No it's not. For one, it's 'I can't play <snip> because the server is down'. The other is 'I can't play <snip> because the server is down'. The latter would be MUCH more annoying.

^
Edited to show the flaw in the statement.

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 01:36 PM

The latter would be MUCH more annoying.

I see you've never had to loose loot on Vashj because of server resets :har:

Ah.. good times... good times... I'd like them back Blizzard! :stare:

Nisgeis

02-03-10, 01:38 PM

Edited to show the flaw in the statement.

Oh come on, editting a post to completely change the meaning of it is a poor way to prove a point. That's very bad form.

Edited to <snip> flaw <snip> the statement.

More like.

trenken

02-03-10, 01:39 PM

but single player games have always been offline

Well thats they key right there that so many here are missing. They WERE always offline, that's clearly not the cast anymore.

Nothing stays the same forever. Online is the big trend in gaming, and its beginning to crossover into single player games. If you dont have a constant connection, well then you cant play these games.

There were lots of people that couldnt afford CD players when those came around, many people complained about having to switch, but what did they have to do? They had to switch. If they couldnt afford it well then they end up those people in vintage shops.

The game stores will have a used game bin of single player only offline games. Thats where you'll be in a year or 2. Even though you cant understand why everything is going online now, doesnt mean its not going to. Sorry. There are millions of us that have no problem with this change.

Nisgeis

02-03-10, 01:42 PM

I see you've never had to loose loot on Vashj because of server resets :har:

Ah.. good times... good times... I'd like them back Blizzard! :stare:

Well, let's see what happens when you've been tracking a big juicy convoy for a couple of days and the server resets :DL.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 01:43 PM

Oh come on, editting a post to completely change the meaning of it is a poor way to prove a point. That's very bad form.

Okay, if you say so, I'll reword my response.
In one case you can't play because the server is down.
In the other case you can't play because the server is down.
In the first case, you knew when you bought the game that the server would sometimes be down.
In the second case, you knew when you bought the game that the server would sometimes be down.
The first and second case are the same.

Galanti

02-03-10, 01:44 PM

The game stores will have a used game bin of single player only offline games. Thats where you'll be in a year or 2.

Eh? Can you explain why exactly this will be the case, without mentioning your 6000 lost hours of Guild Wars?

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 01:45 PM

Oh come on, editting a post to completely change the meaning of it is a poor way to prove a point. That's very bad form.

<snip> Come <snip> post to completely change the meaning of <snip> a <snip> poor <snip> point. <delete rest>

Wait, that didn't come out right, I actually agree with Nisgeis on his point about multiplayer mentality vs singleplayer mentality. We might need to all adjust and look at OSP games as a sort of mutant. ("hibrid" has too much of a nice ring to it)

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 01:45 PM

Well, let's see what happens when you've been tracking a big juicy convoy for a couple of days and the server resets :DL.

Totally baseless. Name one single time when the Ubisoft servers have reset while you were hunting a convoy in SH5.

*IF* the servers do prove problematic then you can bet your life that I will avoid SH5 like the plague, at least until I start seeing reports that they have stabilised. Until then, I'm keeping an open mind.

Iron Budokan

02-03-10, 01:45 PM

Many people on this forum tried to play multiplayer on UBI servers. They can tell you how "reliable" they are.

Yeah. They're gonna suck canal water. And, no, I don't have to play the game to know that's true. All I have to do is look at past UBI history and plot the graph.

Moo! :)

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 01:47 PM

Totally baseless.

Of course it's baseless. I wasn't taking about Vashj after the patch, we downed her BEFORE the patch :timeout:.

Ups.. sorry. I see people moved on...

trenken

02-03-10, 01:47 PM

Okay, if you say so, I'll reword my response.
In one case you can't play because the server is down.
In the other case you can't play because the server is down.
In the first case, you knew when you bought the game that the server would sometimes be down.
In the second case, you knew when you bought the game that the server would sometimes be down.
The first and second case are the same.

You should probably let it go. You're talking to people that dont seem to understand the concept of change, adapting, etc...

They think that things should remain as they've always been, just for them. Technology is a moving train that slows down for noone. Jump on board or get left behind, ive always understood that and every time gaming has gone through a change, ive transitioned very smoothly. I dont cry about anything, I dont pray that things will work out in my favor, I just adapt. It's a good way to be. Im that way when everything in life and it has served me very well.

I never feel bad for myself about anything, and I never blame others or complain. If I were on the other side of the fence and couldnt afford broadband, or couldnt get internet at all for whatever reason, I know exactly how I would react. Id say, "I get why this is happening, so life goes on". I wouldnt lose a minute of sleep over it.

Iron Budokan

02-03-10, 01:48 PM

Totally baseless. Name one single time when the Ubisoft servers have reset while you were hunting a convoy in SH5.

*IF* the servers do prove problematic then you can bet your life that I will avoid SH5 like the plague, at least until I start seeing reports that they have stabilised. Until then, I'm keeping an open mind.

The aggregate number of people who will now be playing (well, forced to play) on UBI servers with the release of SH5 can in no way be compared to the numbers who used UBI servers when playing SH3/4. And even then there were lots of people complaining about server downtime.

Seriously, check the threads. The complaints are documented. :)

Nisgeis

02-03-10, 01:49 PM

In the second case, you knew when you bought the game that the server would sometimes be down.

We do? Is that definate? Is it on the box? How often will the servers be down? For how long?

The difference, which I am sure you can see, is that in the first case, there are technical reasons why the server has to be up to enable people to play in the game environment together. These technical reasons are not present in the single player game and the only reason you can't play when the server is down is because Ubi says so.

Sailor Steve

02-03-10, 01:51 PM

Im not provoked into anything, I just thought we were allowed to talk some positivity about this game, and express our excitement for it on this site.
Actually you intentionally provoked people by being directly dismissive with your "Problem solved" comment.

You are certainly free to express any opinion you want, as is everybody else. But when that opinion stumbles into the "stop living in the past" type of insults, then you are no longer expressing an opinion, but telling people who disagree that they aren't good/smart/enlightened enough to meet your standards. This is especially true when someone comes across a funny picture, posts it in what he thinks is a funny context and you can't see the humor so have to attack the post, no matter how mildly.

Edited to show the flaw in the statement.
I have to disagree with that summation. There is a big difference between not being able to play online because the server is down and not being able to play at home by yourself because the server is down. If I can't watch a pay-per-view movie because I don't have the connection, that's acceptable. If I can't put a movie in my DVD player and watch it because I'm not connected to a Satellite provider, that's not.

In the second case, you knew when you bought the game that the server would sometimes be down.
In the first case, the server is required so you can play with other people.
In the second case, the server is NOT required, but you have to use it because UBI said so.

Big difference.

trenken

02-03-10, 01:51 PM

We do? Is that definate? Is it on the box? How often will the servers be down? For how long?

The difference, which I am sure you can see, is that in the first case, there are technical reasons why the server has to be up to enable people to play in the game environment together. These technical reasons are not present in the single player game and the only reason you can't play when the server is down is because Ubi says so.

The game is all online now, so its understood you just have to deal with server issues. Thats just the way it is, deal with it or dont buy the game, but ill bet you plenty of people will still buy the game, Ubi is well aware of that. Half you guys complaining about this game will end up getting it anyway.

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 01:53 PM

I'm so glad I've taken the time to make this image...

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1280/drmc.jpg

Can anyone help me with the translation of the german text?

trenken

02-03-10, 01:56 PM

But when that opinion stumbles into the "stop living in the past" type of insults, then you are no longer expressing an opinion,

How is that in insult? Is it not the way of the world, the way of life, moving forward, especially when it comes to technology? Im not insulting anyone here. if they take insult to that then I feel bad for them. If I ever feel like im trying to hang on to the way things were then ill just slap myself in the face. We have no control over the direction that gaming is heading in, online. It's spreading into single player games, so what can we do about that?

All you can do is roll with it or just keep playing old games.

Webster

02-03-10, 02:01 PM

Well thats they key right there that so many here are missing. They WERE always offline, that's clearly not the cast anymore.

you and a few others have already accepted DRM/OSP as the future but it hasnt happened yet and it may NEVER happen unless players roll over and do as they are told instead of refusing to accept it.

history is filled with examples of companies who thought they had the power to force customers to buy their products only to put themselves into financial ruin and sometimes bankrupt themselves.

one thing you cannot dissmiss is if people stand up and refuse to accept it then another company will accept our buisness and be only too happy to take our money for their games sold without DRM. its called supply and demand.

nothing is certain and your absolute assertion that this has already happened and the rest of us just need to "get with the program" is my only criticism of your position. just because you like it and want it to be this way doesnt mean others shouldnt fight to the bitter end to oppose something they and i feel is beyond acceptable.

maybe kids feel they have to buy a new game every few months and must accept DRM/OSP but im an adult and i have no problem never buying another game from any company. if they refuse to provide me (the customer) with a game i want to buy (no DRM/OSP) it is no different in my view if the game isnt playable or if i just hate the game itself because if it has DRM/OSP then as far as i am concerned i cant use it and wont buy it.

i own over 50 games that were mostly all made in the last 5 years and 90% of them have online multiplay that i never used or want to use because i dont do online "period" and they dont even have overly intrusive BS like DRM.

Galanti

02-03-10, 02:03 PM

You should probably let it go. You're talking to people that dont seem to understand the concept of change, adapting, etc...

They think that things should remain as they've always been, just for them. Technology is a moving train that slows down for noone. Jump on board or get left behind, ive always understood that and every time gaming has gone through a change, ive transitioned very smoothly. I dont cry about anything, I dont pray that things will work out in my favor, I just adapt. It's a good way to be. Im that way when everything in life and it has served me very well.

I never feel bad for myself about anything, and I never blame others or complain. If I were on the other side of the fence and couldnt afford broadband, or couldnt get internet at all for whatever reason, I know exactly how I would react. Id say, "I get why this is happening, so life goes on". I wouldnt lose a minute of sleep over it.

You jackass, you are like a broken record, (sorry CD), continuing to refuse to directly answer the specific criticisms people are having with this DRM and instead insisting everyone should have broadband in this day and age when
a) It is clear universal broadband access is far from the norm.
b) We are not playing MMOs
c) We don't want to rely on the reliability of someone else's servers.
d) No one but you wants their savegames online.
e) No one but you actually thinks the limitations placed upon us by DRM are 'services'.

And WTF does your Zen-like acceptance of perpetual change have to do with the specific criticisms you quoted yourself in your post? We're all talking about the pitfalls of relying on Ubi servers and you're waxing poetic about us Luddites missing the train of technological change.

Sailor Steve

02-03-10, 02:04 PM

How is that an insult?
The only people that have a good reason to complain about DRM are the ones UNABLE to get internet, and in that case you really picked the wrong hobby to get into.
Dismissive.

This site is like a trip into the mid-90s where people on the internet where rich and basically from the future. Little different now guys, if you cant deal with this game having to connect then go buy a board game or something, its more up your alley I think.
Dismissive and directly insulting.

The problem is that there is absolutely no real need for this connection-to-play thing. It's done for reasons that are not justifiable, and it's intrusive to say the least.

I cant even post a positive thing about this game without being attacked. 10 year olds telling me I work for ubi just because im positive and excited for the game. Grow up already. Are there any mods here? Is it humanly possible to get these DRM topics merged? Jesus.

The attacks aren't happening because of positive things you've said about the game, but because of your supporting what are basically draconian measures aimed at those who want to play it, and the way you talk to those who disagree with you. "It's not what you say, it's how you say it."

I haven't attacked you at all, but you've openly said that I should come into the future (which I will when I can, but I will still be against this treatment from a company that claims to want to help me), and that I should "go buy a board game or something" (which I do still play with my friends).

We have no control over the direction that gaming is heading in, online. It's spreading into single player games, so what can we do about that?

All you can do is roll with it or just keep playing old games.
Why do we have no control? Because someone else says so? What can we do about it? We can protest, we can refuse to buy games that force us to play their way. We don't have to "just roll with it". We don't have to accept anything we don't want to.

Again, people aren't against you for accepting it. They're against you for telling us we're wrong for not just accepting it. And you do that a lot.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 02:10 PM

The aggregate number of people who will now be playing (well, forced to play) on UBI servers with the release of SH5 can in no way be compared to the numbers who used UBI servers when playing SH3/4.

Exactly.
You are the CEO (or whatever) of Ubisoft. You have some mutliplayer servers that are populated by literally a handful of gamers out of the entire planet. How much time and money do you spend on maintaining those servers?
Now you have some servers to which every single player of every single Ubisoft game for the forseeable future must connect. How much time and money do you spend on maintaining those servers?

PhantomLord

02-03-10, 02:11 PM

:har:

This is like an artillery duell... can´t see the enemy´s entrenchment but with repetitive fire i´ll flat him.

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 02:12 PM

Phantom, can you help me with the translation of the above picture? I'd really like to know what it says.

Brag

02-03-10, 02:14 PM

Trenken serves an excellent purpose. With his placid acceptance of Big Daddy, he gives us an excuse to rant about the idiotic DRM/OSP; thus reversing his masters' purpose :D

Sailor Steve

02-03-10, 02:15 PM

You jackass...
Not helpful.

The rest of your summary I agree with.

Nisgeis

02-03-10, 02:17 PM

The game is all online now, so its understood you just have to deal with server issues. Thats just the way it is, deal with it or dont buy the game, but ill bet you plenty of people will still buy the game, Ubi is well aware of that. Half you guys complaining about this game will end up getting it anyway.

I'm sorry, but there's something you don't understand. I have already stated that I *WILL* be buying the game on day one. I have never said that I will not be buying it because of DRM. Do I think DRM will cause me to not be able to play at some times? Yes, I do. Do I like it? No. Just because we are being forced to accept a DRM system we do not like does *NOT* mean that we have to roll over and take it. There is an alternative and that alternative is to complain about it. For others it is to boycott the sale. Server issues are not to be taken for granted.

OK, we get it, you love DRM and will never have a days downtime, even when the servers are down, which reminds me - you have said in the past that you've never had a problem with downtime on games - is that making allowances now for the obvious downtime of the servers? You are starting to contradict your 100% uptime message you have been proclaiming throughout the streets of subsim.

Technology does not ever forwards move on. It goes forward, comes back, make a U-turn, dredges up old ideas and uses them anew, scraps ideas completely. Anyone who has been around long enough can see a definite cycle in technology. All technology is consumer driven.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 02:17 PM

I have to disagree with that summation. There is a big difference between not being able to play online because the server is down and not being able to play at home by yourself because the server is down. If I can't watch a pay-per-view movie because I don't have the connection, that's acceptable. If I can't put a movie in my DVD player and watch it because I'm not connected to a Satellite provider, that's not.

In the first case, the server is required so you can play with other people.
In the second case, the server is NOT required, but you have to use it because UBI said so.

Big difference.

The reason your DVD example is not acceptable is because the DVD player was not sold to you with your acceptance that an always-on connection would be required for it to function. Ubisoft are not claiming that SH5 can be played without the connection, so your example is way off.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 02:21 PM

:har:

This is like an artillery duell... can´t see the enemy´s entrenchment but with repetitive fire i´ll flat him.

Well I have to pass the time somehow. ;)

I know I'll "win" one way or the other. Either the game will die and this forum with it, or the game will be a success and all the boycotters will drift away and be replaced by new players. Either way I only have to listen to this nonsense for a few months.

Wait.... a few months!? Noooooooooooo! :wah:

Sailor Steve

02-03-10, 02:21 PM

The reason your DVD example is not acceptable is because the DVD player was not sold to you with your acceptance that an always-on connection would be required for it to function. Ubisoft are not claiming that SH5 can be played without the connection, so your example is way off.
But we're not complaining about buying the game and finding this out too late, we're complaining about it being there at all. Where did this "sudden surprise" argument come from?

Letum

02-03-10, 02:22 PM

the DVD player was not sold to you with your acceptance that an always-on connection would be required for it to function.

I believe he is saying IF a DVD was sold as being unable to play with out a satellite connection.
It's hypothetical.

PhantomLord

02-03-10, 02:23 PM

Phantom, can you help me with the translation of the above picture? I'd really like to know what it says.

I´ll try...

I just started to read this thread again. Just take the last posts... this artillery picture came to my mind. Each side is somewhat barricaded into their positions. Same words over and over are the ammo to shoot the "enemy" out of his position. Hope this clears the picture a little bit

Or you mean my sig?

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 02:28 PM

But we're not complaining about buying the game and finding this out too late, we're complaining about it being there at all. Where did this "sudden surprise" argument come from?

I believe he is saying IF a DVD was sold as being unable to play with out a satellite connection.
It's hypothetical.

Oh I misunderstood.

Well, I suppose time will tell whether the market is willing to buy DVD players that require an always-on connection. For me, if I had an always-on connection anyway, and if the servers worked fine, and if the DVD player was in fact the only DVD player on sale in the whole world (let's say that SH3 and SH4 are VHS players in this metaphor) then I'd buy the DVD player. What do I care if it's connecting to a server in the background and I never notice that it's doing it?

Mikhayl

02-03-10, 02:30 PM

Another hypothetical scenario:

-Day 0: SH5 is released
-D1-6: users report problems with Ubi auth servers
-D7: a crack is released on a :arrgh!: website
-D30: Ubi releases patch to remove DRM from SH5

PhantomLord

02-03-10, 02:33 PM

@karamazovnew

Oh now i got it :D Give me a few seconds... translation is on the way

Sailor Steve

02-03-10, 02:33 PM

You forgot to mention:

-D35: Someone discovers that the new patch is actually the same <bleep> released on day 7.

PhantomLord

02-03-10, 02:37 PM

"Out with the troublemakers!

unity of the youth in the DRM-youth"

A bit rough but i think that´s it in general

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 02:48 PM

Personally I'm hardly pro-OSP/DRM. If the DRM is removed I'm more than happy with that. If it isn't removed but it does work (i.e. I can play the game without problems) then I'm fine with that too.

Letum

02-03-10, 02:49 PM

Oh I misunderstood.

Well, I suppose time will tell whether the market is willing to buy DVD players that require an always-on connection. For me, if I had an always-on connection anyway, and if the servers worked fine, and if the DVD player was in fact the only DVD player on sale in the whole world (let's say that SH3 and SH4 are VHS players in this metaphor) then I'd buy the DVD player. What do I care if it's connecting to a server in the background and I never notice that it's doing it?

I think you might have missed the point a little.

I'll try and rephrase Steve's point:
Steve has bought a DVD and doesn't have satellite, perhaps his dish is
broken or perhaps the satellite crashed.
Steve decides to watch Das Boot on satellite TV. It won't play (doh! He
doesn't have satellite). Steve may be unhappy, but he can't really be
angry because it is naturally impossible to watch satellite TV when you
don't have satellite.
"No problem!" thinks Steve, "I have Das Boot on DVD". In goes the
DVD and Steve gets some popcorn. However, when he gets back the
DVD won't play because Steve doesn't have satellite TV.
"Hold on a moment!" cries Steve. "Why would a DVD need satellite TV to
play?". Being recourceful, Steve finds a customer service number to
ring on the back of the box. He also notices that the DVD does indeed
say that it needs satellite TV to work and Steve remembers seeing
something to that effect when he bought it.
Customer service explains to Steve that although the DVD contains all
the data needed to watch Das Boot, just like any normal DVD would,
the makers of the DVD added a mechanism to the DVD that prevents it
being played with out satellite TV.
As before, Steve is unhappy because he can't watch Das Boot, but now
he is also pissed off because although he has all the data needed and
the means to watch that data, he is prevented from doing so because
he doesn't have something that he wouldn't need to watch a DVD where
it not for an unnecessary impediment placed in the DVD.
It's not even his fault that he doesn't have what he shouldn't need. He
can't help that there is no satellite TV at the moment. That's enough to
make anyone angry, especially when Steve considers that if the DVD
was just like a normal DVD, he could be enjoying it right now, instead of
being sat with a bowl of popcorn and nothing to watch.

guynoir

02-03-10, 03:06 PM

What do I care if it's connecting to a server in the background and I never notice that it's doing it?

There's that lack of empathy again that you and Trenken are having problems with... I think that you guys are getting so much grief in these debates because it sounds a lot like you're saying 'screw you, I got mine.'

You might have a mythically perfect, always-on internet connection to a mythically perfect, always-on Ubisoft server so that you'll never have downtime in your game. One of the main reasons why others are mad is that many people out there in the world don't have a broadband connection (like my uncle) or they have an intermittent connection (like me). Many people literally don't have access to broadband in their area. It's not a problem they can throw money at (like PC upgrades). They have no recourse to Ubisoft's new scheme.

For others, it feels like this new DRM is not forwards progress (Trenken's argument); it's more like sideways or backwards movement. It'd be one thing if Ubisoft gave us clear benefits (like a common ocean for everyone to sail around in?? :rock:), but instead, Ubisoft is just artificially moving some of the gameplay to their servers in the name of anti-piracy (which never works). Otherwise, the game would be completely singleplayer.

They're essentially screwing potentially paying customers to try and fail to stamp out non-paying pirates...

edit. oh, and for the 'lets just roll over and die, we can't win anyway' argument, look at what happened to Sony's great new music CD DRM back in 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal) ...or how about Michael Atkinson's recent forcing of people to post their names and addresses in political debates on internet forums (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/attorney-general-michael-atkinson-vows-to-repeal-election-internet-censorship-law/story-e6frf7l6-1225826176628)?

Get people mad and fired up enough and all sorts of changes can be made to a company's stance... :)

edit2. oh, and don't think this is just about Silent Hunter V... Many, many more people will be angry about Assassin's Creed 2 having this DRM.

Sailor Steve

02-03-10, 03:09 PM

I've dealt with OLC many times and one thing he cannot be accused of is lack of empathy.

Brag

02-03-10, 03:11 PM

The piracy problem , though serious, is grossly overstated by Ubi, some industry experts call Ubi's statements dishonest. It is used as an excuse to shove DRM/OSP down our throats--We ain't buying it!

Letum

02-03-10, 03:12 PM

I've dealt with OLC many times and one thing he cannot be accused of is lack of empathy.

Hear, hear, quite right.

Nisgeis

02-03-10, 03:16 PM

Many people literally don't have access to broadband in their area. It's not a problem they can throw money at (like PC upgrades).

When mobiles (cell 'phones) were still fairly new, when people called up Mercury to complain they couldn't get a signal in their own home, Mercury would ask if they had considered moving house to an area with better reception.

Come on... you can't REALLY want to play SH5, if you won't move house. :DL.

That was, of course, a joke!

conus00

02-03-10, 03:17 PM

There's that lack of empathy again that you and Trenken are having problems with... I think that you guys are getting so much grief in these debates because it sounds a lot like you're saying 'screw you, I got mine.'

You might have a mythically perfect, always-on internet connection to a mythically perfect, always-on Ubisoft server so that you'll never have downtime in your game. One of the main reasons why others are mad is that many people out there in the world don't have a broadband connection (like my uncle) or they have an intermittent connection or people who literally don't have access to broadband in their area. It's not a problem they can throw money at (like PC upgrades). They have no recourse to Ubisoft's new scheme (like me). Many people .

For others, it feels like this new DRM is not forwards progress (Trenken's argument). It's more like sideways or backwards movement. It'd be one thing if Ubisoft gave us clear benefits (like a common ocean for everyone to sail around in?? :rock:), but instead, Ubisoft is just artificially moving some of the gameplay to their servers in the name of anti-piracy (which never works). Otherwise, the game would be completely singleplayer.

They're essentially screwing potentially paying customers to try and fail to stamp out non-paying pirates...

I could not have said it better myself.
@trenken I have highlighted some very good points for you. Why don't you read them, read them again and read them third time and then THINK before you post another of your derailed posts?

Webster

02-03-10, 03:23 PM

How is that in insult? Is it not the way of the world, the way of life, moving forward, especially when it comes to technology? Im not insulting anyone here. if they take insult to that then I feel bad for them. If I ever feel like im trying to hang on to the way things were then ill just slap myself in the face. We have no control over the direction that gaming is heading in, online. It's spreading into single player games, so what can we do about that?

All you can do is roll with it or just keep playing old games.

when you make lite of a persons financial or living status, his or her ability to live in a better area or get better acces then you are crossing a line in the same way you would make fun of the way someone looks or dresses.

i dont think you have done this intentionally but you have made references to these matters in some of your posts

Webster

02-03-10, 03:26 PM

I'm so glad I've taken the time to make this image... Can anyone help me with the translation of the german text?

it is unfair of you to take shots like this when the crowd is on your side and seams to be piling on in a group manner against the opinions you do not like.

so images like this are uncalled for

guynoir

02-03-10, 03:30 PM

I've dealt with OLC many times and one thing he cannot be accused of is lack of empathy.

You're right, my statement's probably too harsh and I apologize... but it feels sometimes like some aren't taking the time to walk in other's boots.

Webster

02-03-10, 03:32 PM

trenken and onelifecrisis are just as much able to have their opinions as anyone else and just because they are the lone voices in many hundreds who dissagree does not mean they should hold back in any way.

there are also some members out there who just like to go around stirring chit and join in any dissagreement when they dont care about the topic but only wish to flame the discontent but they too, within reason, have the right to say their peace.

the key is that we all need to remember not to cross anyones personal boundry in our attempts to make a point.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 03:35 PM

Too many "ifs". If the servers are poo then I for one will happily join in with the ranting. Until then I see no point in ranting on that particular issue because I'm sure that even the most boneheaded Ubisoft suit is well aware that if their servers don't work then their company will go down unless they fix the servers or drop the DRM, and at that point ranting in the forums is the way to go.

I do empathise (:)) with those who can't get broadband, but I doubt that's enough to sway the issue for Ubisoft. Clearly, they think that enough of the market does have broadband (or can easily get it) and they're willing to sacrifice that part of the market that doesn't have it.

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 03:36 PM

You're right, my statement's probably too harsh and I apologize... but it feels sometimes like some aren't taking the time to walk in other's boots.

No offense taken.
15 posts since 2005? That's some impressive lurking. :salute:

Catfish

02-03-10, 03:36 PM

Hello,
but there's alot of viral marketing going on, however this is now a new level - get some people into forums and let them speak out the company's opinion. And I do not accuse Trenken or OLC here, i am almost sure they are not some of those.
But it is an observation, not only from me, and the sad thing is it's now done all over the internet, especially in simulation forums.

With all due respect, can anyone tell me what feature of this online requirement included in SHV, is to the benefit of the user and BUYER of said software ?
Apart from statements like "it does not matter" or "it is not THAT bad" ?
I mean a genuine advantage ?

Greetings,
Catfish

P.S: i have been offline for two days, viruses/trojans and a veritable rootkit. Seems i am just beginning to see the future of online gaming :shifty:

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 03:44 PM

With all due respect, can anyone tell me what feature of this online requirement included in SHV, is to the benefit of the user and BUYER of said software? I mean a genuine advantage?

Admittedly there is none, unless this OSP actually does stop piracy, which I doubt but again I'm keeping an open mind.

guynoir

02-03-10, 03:48 PM

I do empathise (:)) with those who can't get broadband, but I doubt that's enough to sway the issue for Ubisoft. Clearly, they think that enough of the market does have broadband (or can easily get it) and they're willing to sacrifice that part of the market that doesn't have it.

Very true... This'll definitely all be sorted out shortly. I think Ubi's wrong, though, about broadband penetration numbers if we look at the worldwide broadband stats and then look at the percentage of people that play games online. I think they're needlessly axing a lot of potential customers for what's essentially a singleplayer game.

15 posts since 2005? That's some impressive lurking.

Haha, well, I come here to read about new Silent Hunter games in the pipe... You can probably see why I get angry when it turns out that I won't be buying one of them. :D

I started subsiming back with Silent Service, and I have read a lot of posts here over the years, so I'm not totally new at this. :)

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 03:56 PM

I started subsiming back with Silent Service, and I have read a lot of posts here over the years, so I'm not totally new at this. :)

I wasn't suggesting otherwise! I know people who read forums all the time without posting on any of them. I find it somehow impressive. Me, I can't help mouthing off. :lol:

onelifecrisis

02-03-10, 03:59 PM

Admittedly there is none...

On second thought...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1081315&postcount=61

Don't hit me! :timeout:

Nisgeis

02-03-10, 03:59 PM

With all due respect, can anyone tell me what feature of this online requirement included in SHV, is to the benefit of the user and BUYER of said software ?

Well, if Ubi do the same as Steam, they will be able to harvest all the data about people's hardware and will then be able to tailor games to the hardware the customer base has. It won't benefit anyone immediately though. No in game SH5 benefit I can think of, perhaps DLC later.

Webster

02-03-10, 04:10 PM

With all due respect, can anyone tell me what feature of this online requirement included in SHV, is to the benefit of the user and BUYER of said software ?

Greetings,
Catfish

well i dont know of any benefits to the buyer but it benefits UBI greatly

constant access to all your online activity and viewing/gaming habbits along with the included mandatory spyware for collecting this same data while your not connected to them. see this lets them claim they are not constantly monitoring your activities because a cookie does it instead then reports all this info once you reconnect, its plausable deniability.

then they can use or sell or i should say they will definately sell (because its a viable continued revenue source) your recorded online habbits to the highest bidder so they can better tailor advertising and spam to fit your interests.

plus im sure they have other sneaky ideas while they have access to rummage around on your computer in the name of updating/monitoring the game.

now you also must know that no self respecting hacker would ever try to walk in this big giant door thats always left wide open for them to get into your computer, it just wouldnt be very sporting of them to take advantage of such a ripe juicy plumb.

other than those minor tidbits DRM/OSP is great to have but thats just my opinion

Letum

02-03-10, 04:13 PM

On second thought...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1081315&postcount=61

Don't hit me! :timeout:

That's an an advantage of online saves. They do not require DRM or a permanent connection.

You can even have them in SH3 if you really want. Just set up an
automatic FTP to upload your saves every time they are modified.

karamazovnew

02-03-10, 04:20 PM

it is unfair of you to take shots like this when the crowd is on your side and seams to be piling on in a group manner against the opinions you do not like.

so images like this are uncalled for

When I posted it in the Das DRM thread, it was intended as a friendly nudge to Trenken alone as an energetic defender of the new DRM. This time I posted it to represent the banner of "new wave", the DRM-youths marching triumphantly over the corrupt and rigid old system with determination and vitality.

There really are people who believe that this is not neccesarily the GOOD way to go, but something that is unavoidable and we should all adapt. I did not group up against them as it was not intended as a mockery. I agree the "hitler" aspect might be touchy so I asked for a translation of the text.

The image itself was not directed to Trenken's above post, put to this part, a few posts before that...
You should probably let it go. You're talking to people that dont seem to understand the concept of change, adapting, etc...

They think that things should remain as they've always been, just for them. Technology is a moving train that slows down for noone. Jump on board or get left behind, ive always understood that and every time gaming has gone through a change, ive transitioned very smoothly. I dont cry about anything, I dont pray that things will work out in my favor, I just adapt. It's a good way to be. Im that way when everything in life and it has served me very well.
I found the image to be a good representation of that philosophy. And since his post had nothing to mock about (how can anyone disagree with the statement "this is what I am like"), my post was really not intended as a mock. If it was regarded as an insult, Trenken, please PM me and I will remove it.

Marka Ragnos

02-03-10, 04:22 PM

Here in Belgium most users have a stable broadband dsl or cable connection so you would think we don't have a problem....

WRONG Ubi!

We have a download limit each month some accounts only a few gig a month!
So a constant connection is out of the question.

If I wanna play SH5 for 15 hour straight each day that would be up to me and not my internet provider or Ubisoft to decide.

So people that have cable and unlimited download access are the lucky ones.
And I think that group is a minority.

I REALLY want Silent Hunter 5 LEGALLY!
But in no way I want a constant connection for a SINGLE player game!

evan82

02-03-10, 04:35 PM

The only people that have a good reason to complain about DRM are the ones UNABLE to get internet...

I don't write from the internet cafe :woot:. DRM system is a bad option. In my opinion game without ability for save is useless, so UBI decided to store saves in the net, on the server? But why, if I pay for this game? I like to have my saved game on my PC, and I need ability to edit files, modding. DRM system can be use for block all this options and make troubles.:down:

Pisces

02-03-10, 05:06 PM

Sober: (original post)

You forgot your uplink! How is Ubi supposed to know what grid you left of. ;)

Nickolas

02-03-10, 06:21 PM

"people who literally don't have access to broadband in their area"

i can sense a "they should move to another area then" reply comming our way... :doh:

martes86

02-03-10, 07:32 PM

We have no control over the direction that gaming is heading in, online. It's spreading into single player games, so what can we do about that?

That's pure BS. If there's something we can change, is the direction some games take. How? By showing massive disagreement. It's been proven to work, but it must come from collectives with negotiation power, or else they might be ignored.

In any case, games are made to make money, but games are made after the interests of gamers. You don't see dumb games made after some weird experiment that nobody likes, games are made in a way people like them, and that's where the corp's money hangs. No liking, no money. And that can be said about SH5, though I'm not sure if they care about SH5 specifically, though they might listen the claims of other communitites, if they voice their opinions (silence=agreement).

THE_MASK

02-03-10, 08:05 PM

The bloody internet was down for 4 hours this morning .

Steeltrap

02-03-10, 09:25 PM

I made a similar post somewhere else but can't find it, so....

We're essentially entering a service agreement with Ubi. We give them money, they provide a server to run the game.

Putting aside the issue of whether this makes sense for a single player game, the following questions still arise:

- what will your server availability be?
- how frequently is maintenance scheduled, and how long does that last?
- what is your continuity of business strategy?
Finally, what recourse do I have against you should you fail to meet the obligations that stem from accepting my money?

Those are questions any business would ask of an outsourced service provider. To enter this arrangement without knowing those answers is foolhardy.