BattleCommand (Indie Tanksim) [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Sung

02-01-10, 01:28 PM

Hi there,

i'm working on a own tanksim. It has not professional graphics like TvT and the physics are not very accurate at the moment (but it works).
You see in the picture only a old dummy model of a leopard 1a5. The reason is the game models are not ready textured.

The game will be play during the WW II in the operation "Barbarossa". I would like to make scenries in Poland, Bulgaria, Rumania etc.. You can play old models like Panzer III.

http://www.blitzforum.de/upload/file.php?id=7906
http://www.blitzforum.de/upload/file.php?id=7907

Greetings Sung
:-)

frinik

02-01-10, 10:38 PM

Kudos Sung it's a major undertaking! The more tanks sims the better for all of us.Are you thinking of making a paying one or would it be a freebie?

Your landscapes don't look bad at all.The Leopard is - unfortunately for the Wehrmacht - 70 years too early. Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

Cheers

Chucky

02-02-10, 02:57 AM

Always nice to see a new Tank sim,I will watch this with interest.

Sung

02-02-10, 03:14 AM

Are you thinking of making a paying one or would it be a freebie?

@ frinik & chuky - Thx for the nice words.

I don't think that anyone will pay a cent for this old technique. I work with my mate Nicdel just for fun on it. We belive it will be a freebie.
:salute:

frinik

02-02-10, 03:24 AM

Best of Luck Sung and Nicdel and we will be watching with interest as your game unfolds.Please keep us posted so we can in turn inform others about your project and end game.I'll definitely give it a stab!

Regards

frinik

02-02-10, 03:26 AM

Sung your landscapes remind me of those of the SIM T72 Balkans on fire!

Did you draft them yourself?

Sung

02-02-10, 09:14 AM

Thanks frinik.

Somthing about the technique of the game (BattleCommand) .
The landscape is a mesh terrain generated from a painted heightmap with milkshape. I rendered the colormap with terragen. Over the colormap i took a layer from google-earth (ukraine satellite photo) to get more naturally colors. After that, the enviroment is placed with another map (1color pixel for each house, plant eg..) so its more easy to build up the landscape. The skybox is also rendered in terragen. The mountains are painted in the sky texture. We try to make it flexible for modding if someone wants to do that later. There is no leveleditor and we don't plan to write one.

We need round about 3 weeks for the map with all the enviroment without programming (i can only work 2h a day in the evening). The map is now 94.000 tris big. On my old PC 3 Ghz single core with a ATI XT1600 i have about 51 FPS (60 Frames limited) with 1280x1024 32bit. Nicdel had on his notebook without frame limitation 200 FPS. I plan for the game models not more than 2000 poly, so i hope that it will run fine on older machines.

What you can do acutally in the game? You can drive the tank (3rd person) and change to gunner position (first person). You can shoot and there is collision between the shoot and other tanks/ landscape. But you see only a dummy explosion. It is a really early version of a "game".

Sung :salute:

frinik

02-02-10, 09:59 AM

Sung

02-02-10, 01:53 PM

Sung it sounds very promising and I think it might attract modders who will help you add new tanks, vehicles and missions too.Are you planning on something SP or MP or both?What would be nice guys would be to make or create an easy misison editor so we could all modify games and tailor them to our tastes and then share them with all.

In any event my hat´s off to you and your friend for this wonderful initiative.

AS Chucky said a new tank sim is always welcome!

frinik i think a mission builder is not a big problem. Maybe it will be more textbased, because that is easier for us. First of all it will be Single Player. MP can be fun but if none plays the game because the MP is worse it will be boring. Actually we will go on with small steps.

Sledgehammer427

02-02-10, 04:40 PM

I'll be watching this closely, I like the idea Sung!:yeah:

frinik

02-03-10, 04:38 AM

Hi Sung, any idea when you new tank sim will be ready to test/play?

My advice would be to start with just 2 models one German(either Panzer III or IVE) one Soviet( T34/76 or KV1) to test the game and see how it goes.One thing is sure the toughest part of making a good to outstanding sims are:

1) a decent AI that gives you the feeling that you are fighting not just shooting and killing inanimate targets( the SP missions of Red Orchestra come to mind)

2) realistic ballistics and special effects( explosions/sound/damage) that give realism and life to a tank sim.

Anyway you can count on us to test your game and give you positive( no bashing ,no bitching) feedbakc on what needs to be improved and what's really well.

Cheers

Sung

02-03-10, 05:58 AM

Hello Frinik,

I have no idea when it will be finish. But i think a techdemo will be no problem.
You are right with that points. But i'm afraid that we are not able to make a outstandig simulation. A.I., physics, realistic ballistics and effects are very difficult and komplex. It depends on knowledege, the game engine and time. That all is limited.

cya

frinik

02-03-10, 06:06 AM

Sung, it doesn't matter whether the ballistics/AI and special effects are up to TvsT or SF standards.Whatever you'll do I'll try and play it with pleasure...

Best of luck,

Sung

02-03-10, 09:21 AM

The first tank a panzer III L is going well. Did you know if the 5cm barrel had enough power for T-34 and KV-1? I think about to make for the first steps russian tanks like bt-7 or or t-60

frinik

02-03-10, 11:54 AM

Sung when I play the Panzer III L in Steel Fury I can destroy KVs and T34/76 without major problems but as long as they are less than 600 metres.The 50 mm is pwowrful enough but I have to aim for the engine or try to take the turret (loader) if I strike the front armour of either tank unless Iam less tahn 300 metres thenit s no go.

Hope the date helps.

Do you play Steel Fury?

Very interesting sim.So is the new TvsT with ZW at the helm.

Cheers

Sung

02-04-10, 12:37 AM

Thank you for the info. It helps because it fits for the maps. I have some problems with wide maps. Max is 2 x 2 km.

frinik

02-04-10, 01:49 AM

Sung using smaller Soviet tanks like the T60, BT7 or T26,T38 etc is a good idea. As for the size of the map don´t worry 4 sqm is a good start as long as you include forets or wooded areas,rivers, trees hills places where we can ambush or hide if need be.

Sung

02-04-10, 12:15 PM

Frinik these are nice tanks. Very interesting. I hope that i go finish with the texture for the PIII this weekend. A big work is to animate all the tyres and the chain :hmmm: I think about to animate it in the model.

frinik

02-04-10, 10:18 PM

Good luck in your endeavours Sung and keep us posted.

PS: next can you do PanzerIVF2? I love that tank....

Cheers

Sung

02-06-10, 09:00 AM

http://www.blitzforum.de/upload/file.php?id=7926

Texture is finish now. I hope you like it.
The model has now 3020 poly. Over 1000 poly more that i have planed in. I think it make no sense to reduce more details.

@frinik
Panzer IV is also one of my favorites tank.
The next on will be a BT-7.

:salute:

frinik

02-06-10, 09:34 AM

Kudos Sung your Panzer III is quite gorgeous( if one can use that term for a tank!!!!).

Very good work! Can´t wait for your Panzer IV...

Please keep sending those updates very interesting.

regards

Sung

02-06-10, 01:31 PM

Thanks frinik!

here is the first ingame picture of the panzer iii.

http://www.blitzforum.de/upload/file.php?id=7932

greetings
Sung :salute:

frinik

02-06-10, 01:36 PM

Nice pic SUng!.How many tanks can your game handle at a time?

Cheers

Sung

02-07-10, 04:06 AM

I didn't know frinik. I'm looking for a level of detail system (lod). Maybe i must reduce more enviroment just trees and houses.I think that i need something about +-20 units on the map for nice missions. What do you think?

frinik

02-07-10, 06:54 AM

Sung , 20 units is a good start.Hopefully it can be expanded in the future and other modders may help you make new missions and expand-increase the number of units that can de deployed.

Looking forward to trying it....

Best of luck!

Fercyful

02-08-10, 12:45 PM

hey is looking very nice! :yeah: good work :rock:

frinik

02-09-10, 09:41 AM

Fercyful re your post on the Graviteam forum for the T34-85 Sobolevskyii mod.I am unable to upload the mod to you.Why don´t you give me your email address in a PM and I´ll email it to you by yahoo with an attachment so you can just download and extract the file?

Cheers

Fercyful

02-09-10, 06:34 PM

Rompedor

02-10-10, 11:36 AM

Nice work, Sung.:yeah:

I am waiting your progress. :DL

We need to have a tank sim for all community. It made by all the community collaboratively by all.
It is better if the project is open-source.

Sung

02-11-10, 02:03 AM

Thank you Rompedor

open source is difficult, because some people work on parts and that code segments are not open source. We try to make it modable.
:salute:
cya Sung

ajrimmer42

02-11-10, 02:28 AM

wow, looking fantastic Sung, keep up the good work! Can't wait to try it out!

Sung

02-11-10, 08:03 AM

http://www.blitzforum.de/upload/file.php?id=7957

Thanks ajrimmer42

The look through the german optics. I didn't know if all german tanks had the same view? Did anybody knows the zoom value?

frinik

02-11-10, 09:08 AM

Sung, German what you are showing are the optics of most German tanks.There were variations of course.What´s missing are the gradings for the machine gun on one side and the others for the main gun.There´s a book on German optics but it´s rather technical and not necessarily helpful.However it might be a good idea to read.I ´ll try to find you the title and the link.The alternative would be to look at other sims with realistic optics like Steel Fury, Panzer Elite SE)( not the action but the sim) or even TvsT.

Cheers

You´re sim is taking shape good work!

Sung

02-11-10, 09:15 AM

Thanks frinik that helps.

hodi

02-12-10, 02:02 PM

The look through the german optics. I didn't know if all german tanks had the same view? Did anybody knows the zoom value?

http://www.tarrif.net/

click on "Intelligence"

and then "Text Database of Optics Information"

apropos

RedOrchestra or ForgottenHope have very good reticles implemented :up:

Sung

02-13-10, 11:17 AM

http://www.blitzforum.de/upload/file.php?id=7964

frinik

02-13-10, 12:10 PM

Nice work Sung! How s your game coming along?

Cheers

Sung

02-14-10, 03:03 PM

Hi,

here is a bad short vid :DL from the actual version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCZY0lzLwJ0

cya
:salute:

frinik

02-15-10, 02:08 AM

Interesting vid Sung and not bad at all!

2 remarks though:

WWII tanks woould rarely if at all shoot while moving. Because they did not have a fire stabilisation system( which was invented after the war) like modern tanks, they had to stop in order to shoot accurately.

2) your tank seems to be moving a bit too nimbly for a panzer III.Tweak ti so it advances more like tracked vehicle than one on wheels...

Otherwise good start!

Cheers

Frinik

hodi

02-15-10, 06:00 AM

The turret turns a little too fast - i think that can be tweaked

on the other hand ... what frinik first-mentioned ... a tank must be moving ponderous

a nice job - just carry on!

Sung

02-15-10, 07:40 AM

Thank guys,

how fast is the moving, turning?

frinik

02-15-10, 09:18 AM

Ok Sung I played the Panzer III in a Steel Fury mission to compare with yours.SF is supposed to be fairly accurate in terms of historical data.To give you a rough estimate the tank speed needs to be reduced by 30% and the turret speed by 20% approx.

Hope it helps.

hodi

02-15-10, 09:30 AM

That's different from tank to tank but the moving speed averaged between 15 km/h and 20 km/h offroad right up to 40 km/h on the road.

The turret rotation speed is very different - it's ranging from 15 sec to 60sec for 360°

Sung

02-15-10, 01:41 PM

Thanks guys that helps. We fix it.

Hitman

02-15-10, 03:21 PM

Excellent effort, I love to see more tanksims appearing :yeah:

Just a hint: If you would model the north african campaign (Afrika Korps versus Desert rats) you would be able to make a first edition of the sim very quickly, because the desert terrain is much more easy, repetitive and FPS friendly, and you have much less tank and vehicle models to deal with :shucks:

frinik

02-16-10, 04:15 AM

Sung, I found this link on German optics that might be of help to you.
German gunnery sights, aiming and range estimation explained:
http://pedg.yuku.com/topic/1728/t/Ra...ht-optics.html (http://pedg.yuku.com/topic/1728/t/Ranging-Turmzielfernrohr-TZF-9b-gun-sight-optics.html)
__________________

Cheers

Sung

02-16-10, 07:21 AM

Thanks Hitman, the african campaign sounds good. But we will try the russian scenaria first.

@frinik
great link - thx

@all
Please do not expect too much. Surely we can not produce a realistic tank simulation.

Snow White Sorrow

02-16-10, 08:55 AM

Do you need beta testers? I'm very interested to help develop a tank sim (never had one in ages)

Lieste

02-16-10, 10:04 PM

I've never been very convinced by the explanation put forward by Barkman for the '13' mark...

With zero range the aim-point for both Spr and PzGr must be almost the same, with increasing difference with range. A constant and initial 5 degree aim off is just wrong.

Comparing the data given for the later sights shown below, Spr seems to share similar data as the MG34 (right side of the TZF12 diagrams), so using the MG scale and 'tick' on the left of the 9b seems logical and simpler.

Given the original reference to calibration, I prefer the assumption that the '13' tick mark is used in adjusting the mechanical linkages to conform the sight movement to the correct amount (given the Tigers operated in Russia where temperatures range from +40 in the south in the summer, and -30 in the worst of the northern winter, it would make sense to have some method of correcting for gross temperature changes).