Why you are going to buy SH5 anyway [Archive]

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Vanagen

01-31-10, 12:42 PM

You're upset about the DRM. I know. We all are. I bet Ubisoft is pretty upset about it too.

That said, Ubisoft knows that, in spite of the uproar, you will buy their game. Actually, the uproar only confirms how badly you want to buy it. Any concession at all on their part will be seen as a gift from heaven.

And whether you realise it or not, the only time Ubisoft will start to worry about customers is when you stop bitching. That's when you've lost interest in their product.

Allow me to reiterate why you are going to buy SH5 anyway.

1. Silent Hunter V is going to be an awesome next-gen subsim. Also, it's going to be the only next-gen sub game. Heck, chances are this will be the last big budget subsim for a long, long time. Even if it isn't realistic enough to your likings out of the box, it'll be an awesome base for GWX type mods to build upon.

2. Deep down, you realise that the online "DRM" is necessary and that it truly is the only feasible way commercial PC games can survive in a market saturated with piracy.

3. As much as you think that this forum is making a difference, it isn't. You are the hardest core, sure, but Ubisoft caters to a much bigger crowd, even with this game. You're a vocal minority at best and you will be swayed into buying the game anyway, simply because there is no alternative.

I'm not saying that you are weak. I'm only saying that, as consumers, the laws of supply and demand simply dictate that you will indeed satisfy your needs with this game.

Remember the Modern Warfare 2 boycott?

(click for larger image)
http://i.imgur.com/4ox73l.png (http://imgur.com/4ox73.png)

So who am I siding with?

You?

Ubisoft?

No one, really. You both have valid arguments.

When all is said and done, though, this is still the current state of affairs. PC gaming has evolved tremendously in the past years. And if it doesn't keep on adapting, it will die out entirely, and everyone who wants to game on his PC will be playing oldies or subscribe to World of Warcraft.

I know that asking you not to "live in the past" is ironic considering the subject matter of the Silent Hunter series, although it is exactly what you must do.

The choice is yours.

stabiz

01-31-10, 12:47 PM

A bit preachy but I get your point. Lots of the nay-sayers will probably end up buying despite the DRM, I will not though.

urfisch

01-31-10, 12:48 PM

You're upset about the DRM. I know. We all are. I bet Ubisoft is pretty upset about it too.

That said, Ubisoft knows that, in spite of the uproar, you will buy their game. Actually, the uproar only confirms how badly you want to buy it. Any concession at all on their part will be seen as a gift from heaven.

And whether you realise it or not, the only time Ubisoft will start to worry about customers is when you stop bitching. That's when you've lost interest in their product.

Allow me to reiterate why you are going to buy SH5 anyway.

1. Silent Hunter V is going to be an awesome next-gen subsim. Also, it's going to be the only next-gen sub game. Heck, chances are this will be the last big budget subsim for a long, long time. Even if it isn't realistic enough to your likings out of the box, it'll be an awesome base for GWX type mods to build upon.

2. Deep down, you realise that the online "DRM" is necessary and that it truly is the only feasable way commercial PC games can survive in a market saturated with piracy.

3. As much as you think that this forum is making a difference, it isn't. You are the hardest core, sure, but Ubisoft caters to a much bigger crowd, even with this game. You're a vocal minority at best and you will be swayed into buying the game anyway, simply because there is no alternative.

I'm not saying that you are weak. I'm only saying that, as consumers, the laws of supply and demand simply dictate that you will indeed satisfy your needs with this game.

Remember the Modern Warfare 2 boycott?

(click for larger image)
http://i.imgur.com/4ox73l.png (http://imgur.com/4ox73.png)

So who am I siding with?

You?

Ubisoft?

No one, really. You both have valid arguments.

When all is said and done, though, this is still the current state of affairs. PC gaming has evolved tremendously in the past years. And if it doesn't keep on adapting, it will die out entirely, and everyone who wants to game on his PC will be playing oldies or subscribe to World of Warcraft.

I know that asking you not to "live in the past" is ironic considering the subject matter of the Silent Hunter series, although it is exactly what you must do.

The choice is yours.

lol@the pic!

many are so weak...i cant believe it. but this seems to be a human nature thing. most gamers are addicted and need more and more drugs, to manage the day. without them, most become lone and suffering creatures.

i wont buy it, until it is proofed, the game is perfectly modable!!! otherwise i lend a copy of this thing to have a nice weekend.

Vanagen

01-31-10, 12:54 PM

lol@the pic!

many are so weak...i cant believe it. but this seems to be a human nature thing. most gamers are addicted and need more and more drugs, to manage the day. without them, most become lone and suffering creatures.

i wont buy it, until it is proofed, the game is perfectly modable!!! otherwise i lend a copy of this thing to have a nice weekend.

We are not weak. We are consumers.

This is capitalism. And of all the terrible systems people inflict upon themselves, capitalism is still the least terrible one.

It's also the one system that guarantees to provide pretty decent end-user products.

In the end, you'd have to be mad to be both a PC gamer and a subsim enthusiast and somehow resist to buy this game.

If you can indeed resist, kudos to you and your extraordinary moral fiber.

As for me, I'll be indulging myself in my 1:1 campaign.

Letum

01-31-10, 12:58 PM

Didn't buy ROF.
They are now removing online DRM.

Won't buy SHV.
Watch this space.

I know for a fact that the events on this forum are making a difference.

The Subsim crowd stand by their word a little better than the MW2 rabble.

HundertzehnGustav

01-31-10, 01:00 PM

what a heap of philiosophical text.

its not capitalism, nor the gaming or PC industry

Its my life.
Its my Choice
Its my freedom.

Once i can get what i want for the proice i want to pay, i will do so.

Dont tell me what i, or others will do. just dont go there, please. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1253830#post1253830)
:shifty::stare:

IanC

01-31-10, 01:03 PM

fromhell

01-31-10, 01:08 PM

i totally agree:yeah:

Chad

01-31-10, 01:09 PM

Well I have personally met 3 of the developers, and understand the time and pain they have gone through to make this game. I want to support them, as a friend, more than an anonymous company.

Not only that, but Silent Hunter 5 has so much promise, something I wish I could of contributed to, and as such, I'll contribute my part in purchasing SH5 and maybe release a mod or two, to the few people who do go ahead and purchase SH5.

I had dialup until last year, and I would, still purchase SH5 and deal with no phone for hours on time if I had to play. There's always my cell phone :arrgh!:

Vanagen

01-31-10, 01:09 PM

Didn't buy ROF.
They are now removing online DRM.

NeoQB succeeded in preventing prerelease piracy. As far as I'm concerned, their game still hasn't been pirated.

Now that the piracy groups don't care about it anymore, it's time they did indeed remove the DRM to get even more sales.

It proves that the business model works.

I know for a fact that the events on this forum are making a difference.

The Subsim crowd stand by their word a little better than the MW2 rabble.

Care to convey these facts to us? I'm very interested.

As for the adamant Subsimmers, I can only commend you on your moral fiber compared to the MW2 "rabble".

Especially considering that the MW2 crowd had a lot of alternatives to choose from.

what a heap of philiosophical text.

its not capitalism, nor the gaming or PC industry

Its my life.
Its my Choice
Its my freedom.

Once i can get what i want for the proice i want to pay, i will do so.

Dont tell me what i, or others will do. just dont go there, please.Who's being philosophical now?

I said so in my initial post that the choice is yours.

And I apologise for hitting so close to home. I know that this is a very sensitive topic; these are the realities of life.

I'm not telling you what to do. I'm telling you what you will very likely do to yourself. And what I will definitely do.

Still, if you resist, more power to you. :up:

HundertzehnGustav

01-31-10, 01:15 PM

miner1436

01-31-10, 01:16 PM

I don't know if the modern warfare 2 boycott is a good comparison, the PC crowd for MW2 was only a portion of the players: they also sold to other platforms besides the PC, the week one sales for modern warfare 2 on the Xbox 360 alone came to 5,500,000 copies, where as SHV only has one crowd to please: the PC gamers.

ETR3(SS)

01-31-10, 01:19 PM

My two cents here. From what I can tell the requirement to be online itself isn't DRM. There's a hidden factor that we won't know about until release that will put the "DRM" into prospective. My guess is a WoW type account key to go with your Ubi account. So as it stands right now, there is no DRM with SH5. Just something to chew on.:know:

Vanagen

01-31-10, 01:28 PM

Then do not suggest things to others, and put up analogies to what happened to other games...
Analogies i do not understand, nor am willing to learn.

I went philosofic:O: to get down to the basic lifestyle, and explain why i do not like your, nor any other suggestion that i will "give in eventually"

I know what i want. If they give me what i want, i will get it. Thats not giving in, or giving up resistance or anything. Thats just one Guy having made up his mind in accordance to his beliefs, and sticking to them.

Once again, I commend you for your moral fiber.

And if you do end up buying the game in spite of the DRM, I won't judge you either.

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm simply reiterating what has happened countless times before this entire 'DRM drama'.

People tend to bitch and indeed give in eventually, even if they have a choice.

I don't know if the modern warfare 2 boycott is a good comparison, the PC crowd for MW2 was only a portion of the players: they also sold to other platforms besides the PC, the week one sales for modern warfare 2 on the Xbox 360 alone came to 5,500,000 copies, where as SHV only has one crowd to please: the PC gamers.

Yes, you are absolutely right, of course. They were different circumstances and different issues to begin with, but I wanted a strong image from recent memory. Well, for people who follow PC gaming, that is.

Also, the MW2 people have a lot of first person shooters to choose from.

We have just this one subsim.

My two cents here. From what I can tell the requirement to be online itself isn't DRM. There's a hidden factor that we won't know about until release that will put the "DRM" into prospective. My guess is a WoW type account key to go with your Ubi account. So as it stands right now, there is no DRM with SH5. Just something to chew on.:know:
Your common sense and logic have no place on this forum!

Begone, foul demon!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

IanC

01-31-10, 01:31 PM

I had dialup until last year, and I would, still purchase SH5 and deal with no phone for hours on time if I had to play. There's always my cell phone :arrgh!:

No SH5 for dialup. :shifty:

Turbografx

01-31-10, 01:40 PM

@Vanagen:

You assume this is a need, it is not. It is a want, a hobby. A disappointing loss but one I can easily live without.

JU_88

01-31-10, 01:41 PM

Well for me, You're preaching to the converted
I was going to buy SHV from the moment I knew it existed.
and nothing changed there either. :)

HundertzehnGustav

01-31-10, 01:44 PM

People tend to bitch and indeed give in eventually, even if they have a choice.

i dont give in....
what i want, is an offline game, what ever the cost. even an extra 10 bucks.

i never said i wasnt interested or would not get SHV. in fact i am VERY interested. :hmmm:

Offline. Off the chain. Off the Hook. Free.:up:

Vanagen

01-31-10, 01:57 PM

Well, take a pledge, then. On your honour. That you won't buy this game unless they remove all DRM.

Or maybe you prefer that they remove the online requirement and add StarForce?

Either way, I'll buy the game. Even with both forms of DRM. Even if they force me to play it naked with a carrot shoved up my, uh, ear. (I was going to do that anyway)

The thing is, in two months time, when everyone is playing the game and the forums here are full of people talking about their actual experiences in-game, good or bad, will you simply sit by and say: no, I'm still not buying it out of principle?

If so, as I've said three times before already, I'll take a few moments time to applaud you and tip my hat at you, then return to my boat and taste the soup.

MercurySeven

01-31-10, 02:21 PM

Maybe there should be a thread for this. Every week the hardliners write a short "Yupp, no purchase so far" and we can monitor how well the thing holds out. Sort of like stop smoking together. ;)

As for me: Easy to make that pledge. With current info on DRM SH5 simply wont work on my PC so buying it would be similar to taking 50 bucks out of my bank account and burning it just for the fun of it.

But I'll closely monitor the whole thing. Hopefully a few months after release the whole Online-At-All-Times thing will be dealt with in a patch (which at the same time removes some bugs that have bitten everybodys ass so far) and then I'll happily buy.:yeah:

Doing so will then of course not send a signal that this sort of DRM is evil per se to UBI, but hopefully it will contribute to UBI releasing similar patches for their other future games in a similar manner. As long as a few months down the road such ludicrous obligations get patched out in the games I am grown up enough to just sit back, read a book and wait for the "second release". :salute:

Nickolas

01-31-10, 02:21 PM

Actually, the uproar only confirms how badly you want to buy it.

Yes, we want to enjoy the game, but that doesn't mean we will buy it. We are NOT a bunch of winning eleven junkies.

Allow me to reiterate why you are going to buy SH5 anyway.

no, i'm not...

1. Silent Hunter V is going to be an awesome next-gen subsim. Also, it's going to be the only next-gen sub game. Heck, chances are this will be the last big budget subsim for a long, long time. Even if it isn't realistic enough to your likings out of the box, it'll be an awesome base for GWX type mods to build upon.

probably true, and even more if its a flop... (drm, coff coff)

2. Deep down, you realise that the online "DRM" is necessary and that it truly is the only feasible way commercial PC games can survive in a market saturated with piracy.

please don't project your DRM-love on us... :nope:
there are many ways to fight piracy, and shoving stuff down the buyer's throat isn't the best one.

3. As much as you think that this forum is making a difference, it isn't. You are the hardest core, sure, but Ubisoft caters to a much bigger crowd, even with this game. You're a vocal minority at best and you will be swayed into buying the game anyway, simply because there is no alternative.

and... where does "the forum making a difference" to ubi affects cash spilling out of my wallet?
This is not about a dumb boycott, this is about personal choice, if John Doe buys it thats HIS problem, not mine. I still wont buy it.

I'm not saying that you are weak. I'm only saying that, as consumers, the laws of supply and demand simply dictate that you will indeed satisfy your needs with this game.

Of course not... we aren't weak, we just arent strong enough. :shifty: Wait... what?

Also, the laws of supply and demand don't say a specific person will buy it. actually, the laws of supply and demand only show that if ubisoft counted all of our heads before starting to make the CDs they'll end up with a surplus of at least one (mine).

to sum it up...
if YOU want to buy it great for you, i hope you have a blast with it. But just because you have a little envelope that is labeled "SH V money" doesn't mean we will buy it, at least not in it's current state.

Mud

01-31-10, 02:27 PM

I for one have a tight budged, wife, kids, house etc.
SH5 for me means I have to invest in a new PC, I have still my 5 year old P4.
The games I play are mostly older ones from the budged box which I still enjoy.
So it cost me about 800 euros to play SH5, the way SH5 is going I'm gonna pass on that one and hold the money in my pocket.
As I've read in an other thread then I'm probably not a true subsimmer, well so be it.

Mud

conus00

01-31-10, 02:32 PM

I will not buy it. Regardless what you say and regardless how much I like german sub simulators. For simple reason: I have a freedom of choice. If I do not like what is being sold, and what it imposes on me,I will not shell out my hard earned money.

As somebody stated before: playing games is a my hobby NOT my life.
After all SHV is just a GAME. :nope:

I managed to get through life before SHV release, and guess what, I will manage after it too... :haha:

IMO Your original post is pretty immature, you can not assume to know what is going in other people's heads, so you are not entitled to speak for them.
I want to believe that you didn't mean any offense by it, so none taken.

GREY WOLF 3

01-31-10, 02:35 PM

:up::agree:
:up::up:

Vanagen

01-31-10, 02:39 PM

to sum it up...
if YOU want to buy it great for you, i hope you have a blast with it. But just because you have a little envelope that is labeled "SH V money" doesn't mean we will buy it, at least not in it's current state.

Thanks, I'm sure I will have a blast with it! :yeah:

I'm actually already letting my beard grow in preparation.

How about we stop getting our panties in a bunch and check back in two months, see who's actually bought the game and who hasn't?

HundertzehnGustav

01-31-10, 02:51 PM

I'm still not buying it out of principle?

The moment i can go, buy the package (game, license, data...) and play it without Ubisoft requiring me to be hooked up to the net, i will.

Its not going to take long. Not at all - i hope.

Principles are stronger than my addiction.

*sits at 220meters, listening to depth charges all around*

theluckyone17

01-31-10, 02:55 PM

You're upset about the DRM. I know. We all are. I bet Ubisoft is pretty upset about it too.Unless Ubisoft somehow failed to predict this level of backlash (I find this hard to believe), they're probably not upset. The Dev's? Yes. The Suits at Ubisoft? Nope.

That said, Ubisoft knows that, in spite of the uproar, you will buy their game. Actually, the uproar only confirms how badly you want to buy it. Any concession at all on their part will be seen as a gift from heaven. Heh. Not at all. There's SH3, SH4, and Danger From the Deep. Yes, I want SH5. Is it worth dealing with OSP? No. If Ubisoft opts to remove OSP, then I'll be happier. If the mod tools prove to be as good as promised, I'll be even happier. If Ubisoft manages to open source SH5 in a year, that will be a gift from heaven.

And whether you realise it or not, the only time Ubisoft will start to worry about customers is when you stop bitching. That's when you've lost interest in their product.They'll start worrying when their wallets are empty, regardless of how much we complain.
Allow me to reiterate why you are going to buy SH5 anyway.I will not do anything of the sort.

1. Silent Hunter V is going to be an awesome next-gen subsim. Also, it's going to be the only next-gen sub game. Heck, chances are this will be the last big budget subsim for a long, long time. Even if it isn't realistic enough to your likings out of the box, it'll be an awesome base for GWX type mods to build upon. As long as OSP is a component, I'm not touching it. It could make my bed, wash my dishes, and cook supper for me, too, and I still wouldn't buy it. I don't trust Ubisoft, I don't like the concept of OSP, and I will not suffer it, regardless of the benefits.

2. Deep down, you realise that the online "DRM" is necessary and that it truly is the only feasible way commercial PC games can survive in a market saturated with piracy.Is that why Galactic Civilizations 2 (http://forums.galciv2.com/index.aspx?AID=106741) was such as success, despite it's lack of DRM? Is that why there are reports (http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2010/01/bittorrent-census-about-99-of-files-copyright-infringing.ars) stating that the media being shared on P2P networks is mostly DRM'd media, while the DRM-free stuff isn't being shared? Let's see... another media form, the ebook: O'Reilly (http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/22/oreilly-drops-ebook.html) sees a 104% increase in sales after they drop their DRM. Is DRM/OSP necessary? Doesn't look like it to me.

3. As much as you think that this forum is making a difference, it isn't. You are the hardest core, sure, but Ubisoft caters to a much bigger crowd, even with this game. You're a vocal minority at best and you will be swayed into buying the game anyway, simply because there is no alternative.Belittle me and my voice. I will speak up, I will speak out, and I will not be silenced. There is an alternative, and that is continuing to speak out until Ubisoft removes OSP from its products.

I'm not saying that you are weak. I'm only saying that, as consumers, the laws of supply and demand simply dictate that you will indeed satisfy your needs with this game.You imply that because Ubisoft is supplying, we as consumers must use their product to fill our "need". It's not a need, it's a want. And we can fill that want with SH3, SH4, and Danger from the Deep. Ubisoft may think they're the only company with the only game in town, but they're wrong. Furthermore, as consumers, we drive the market. We create demand. Not Ubisoft. If Ubisoft cannot fulfill that demand, then someone else will.

Remember the Modern Warfare 2 boycott?I place more faith in the SH5 community to be steadfast than an FPS community. We tend towards fanaticism, whereas the FPS community seem to be afflicted with ADHD. We're devoted to our sims... the FPS community, not so much.

So who am I siding with?

You?

Ubisoft?

No one, really. You both have valid arguments.

When all is said and done, though, this is still the current state of affairs. PC gaming has evolved tremendously in the past years. And if it doesn't keep on adapting, it will die out entirely, and everyone who wants to game on his PC will be playing oldies or subscribe to World of Warcraft.

I know that asking you not to "live in the past" is ironic considering the subject matter of the Silent Hunter series, although it is exactly what you must do.

The choice is yours.Not all evolution or adaptation proves to be useful. It holds true in biology, and holds true in the computer industry. PC Gaming will not die out entirely. It cannot. If Ubisoft cannot provide a sub sim, then some other company will. If another company will not, then we will do it ourselves (DftD).

I will not stand for OSP, and I will not succumb. If no one else does the same, so be it.

conus00

01-31-10, 03:04 PM

I will not stand for OSP, and I will not succumb. If no one else does the same, so be it.

^Amen.

ryanglavin

01-31-10, 03:06 PM

Just throwing my 2 cents in to everyone whos doesn't buy SH 5 because of the DRM:

Anyone remember starforce? Lets not go back there.

Letum

01-31-10, 03:20 PM

The number of canceled pre-orders speaks volumes.

trenken

01-31-10, 03:30 PM

Before I heard about the DRM/OSP in SH5 I planned on buying it, and I still do. I've played 4 games that use a form of it, never had a bad experience.

While you complain about it everyday after release, ill be enjoying the game thank you.

JackAubrey

01-31-10, 03:33 PM

While you complain about it everyday after release, ill be enjoying the game thank you.
Unless you press "A" :woot:
Sorry, couldn't resist. :03:

Rosencrantz

01-31-10, 03:49 PM

Can't find my choice from those you gave, sorry. Are you sure you didn't forget something? Something like "No-DRM"...? :03:

Greetings,
-RC-

TDK1044

01-31-10, 04:02 PM

For me, it's a point of principle. I have no objection to logging onto a Ubisoft server in order to authenticate the game. I have a very strong objection to logging onto a Ubisoft server in order to play it.

I will only purchase it if off-line access becomes possible. :)

Mikhayl

01-31-10, 04:05 PM

It's not like the game is a hot pastry anyway. I bought SH3 2 years after release, it didn't undermine my enjoyment, more like the contrary since after so long my copy was patched, with no starforce and I had NYGM, WAC 3.0 and GWX 2 available.
If nothing is done about that DRM I don't mind delaying my purchase.

Sailor Steve

01-31-10, 04:56 PM

Well, take a pledge, then. On your honour. That you won't buy this game unless they remove all DRM.
In my case it's not a matter of principle, though I may drag that out too. No, for me it's a matter of fact: I don't have an internet connection, so for me to buy a game I cannot possibly play would be stupid. I said I would buy it in spite of the other percieved flaws, but for me it has to be that way. If they make it so I can't play it, Why bother?

or maybe you prefer that they remove the online requirement and add StarForce?
Starforce has not affected my computer one bit. That said, I now have the newer version of SH3 without it. But If they remove the "online only" requirement, sure I'll buy it.

The thing is, in two months time, when everyone is playing the game and the forums here are full of people talking about their actual experiences in-game, good or bad, will you simply sit by and say: no, I'm still not buying it out of principle?
Yes, I'll sit by, but I'll cry and say "Why me?" As I said, for me it's not the principle but the necessity.

THE_MASK

01-31-10, 05:02 PM

Very good read , but i am not buying it while i have to rely on Ubi servers to play the game . SH4 for me .

Wolfehunter

01-31-10, 05:05 PM

I'll tell you why I won't buy SH5,

I rather buy Metro 2033, Stalker COP.

I just bought Mass Effect 2 Collectors Edition with all the DLCs I've found for free.

Depending on what other game comes out this year I'm doing good.

SH5 was on my list till I found out there direction of the game compared to previous series. Lastly that killed SH5 for me was the DRM.

SH5 isn't for me. Not my kind of game. :D :yeah:

Onkel Neal

01-31-10, 05:22 PM

Vanagen, pardon my ignorance, what do the arrows mean in your pic?

Thomen

01-31-10, 05:24 PM

Vanagen, pardon my ignorance, what do the arrows mean in your pic?
People that officially boycotting the game (MW2, I believe), but are playing it regardless..

Onkel Neal

01-31-10, 05:39 PM

That's what I thought. But how do you recognized these people?

Thomen

01-31-10, 05:42 PM

That's what I thought. But how do you recognized these people?

It is listed beneath their names what they are doing. Some play other games and those with arrows play MW 2. :up:

Steeltrap

01-31-10, 07:08 PM

No, I won't buy it if a constant internet connection is required. Furthermore, I am sceptical following the debacle of shIV with its many, appalling errors.

As for political philosophising, try a few gems from Sir Winston:

Democracy is the worst form of government......apart from all the others

and

The greatest argument against democracy is 5 minutes spent with the average voter (I love this one....)

Mud

01-31-10, 07:20 PM

That's what I thought. But how do you recognized these people?

On the top of the screenie you read Modern warfare 2 boycott member list.
The arrows indicate the guys who are on the list and playing Modern warfare 2 .

Mud

Farinhir

01-31-10, 07:54 PM

That said, Ubisoft knows that, in spite of the uproar, you will buy their game. Actually, the uproar only confirms how badly you want to buy it. Any concession at all on their part will be seen as a gift from heaven.
I think I would love to play an awesome submarine game. Oh wait, I have SH3 with GWX3. I guess I have something to fulfill my NEED there. I also have SH4 if I so decide, but SH3 with GWX3 is actually better in some ways. It is not like we are forced to buy SH5 for a submarine game. It would just be something new.

3. As much as you think that this forum is making a difference, it isn't. You are the hardest core, sure, but Ubisoft caters to a much bigger crowd, even with this game. You're a vocal minority at best and you will be swayed into buying the game anyway, simply because there is no alternative.

I think people claimed this with starforce also. I, personally would not buy POP:SoT or any of the other games while they were on starforce. Turns out that after UBISoft stopped using that, they decided to release said games on steam, without the afore mentioned DRM. Maybe steam works well enough there.

Remember the Modern Warfare 2 boycott?
There was a boycott? I thought it was just a bunch of people whining about how they were not getting the features they wanted. It was content rather than restriction. I am sure that a boycott about restrictions might last longer. I personally will not buy SHV as long as it has this OSP DRM. I have a lot of other games I can play in the mean time, that have yet to be beaten.

Bubblehead1980

01-31-10, 08:35 PM

I believe the autor of this post underestimates the anger over the DRM fiasco.Comparingh someone who enjoys the sim to a drug addict is not exactly accurate.

I along with many others have a real life, but due to my love of history and all, I enjoy SH because its not a scripted FPS, actually the only game I reguarly play and lately have not had the time to play as much as I would like.Sure, there are some gamers who are "addicted" but does not mean most just can not help themselves.I predict most people who say they will not buy this while it has DRM, will stick to their word.
This is about freedom to buy the product we want and be able to use it when we want, not depend on UBI servers or an internet connection to play a single player game.

As far as the change thing, I am so sick of hearing about change blah blah, change is not always a good thing.When something is not really messed up, it does not need change.The way a consumer is able to purchase a game, install it and play at will, nothing wrong there.The piracy argument is just a cop out from the gaming industry for more control of the product they produce but that we ultimately bu, thus it should be the consumers choice how, when he plays it and what he does with said product when does not use it any longer.I for one prob play SH 4 with the mods for years to come.

That being said, I prefer fleetboats but was looking forward to SH 5 so could support the franchise, check out the steps theyve made, hope and wait for SH 6 in the PTO again with great features from SH 5 like a fully modeled submarine. Play it now and then for a change.As long as DRM is present in SH 5, I will not purchase this game and it will not kill me.SH 4 with TMO and RSRD is tops right now as far as I am concerned.

JScones

02-01-10, 04:32 AM

I'll let the pioneers take the arrows. I'll settle later.

Iron Budokan

02-01-10, 10:37 AM

I'll buy the game if, and only if, Neal gives it a positive review and the forum members here give it a thumbs up after weeks of play testing and we learn, yes, Virginia, some of these ridiculous game-play limitations can be modded out. AND my concerns about the DRM are proven to be completely unwarranted.

Then. And only then, will I buy this game.

Why? Simple. I trust them a lot more than I do someone preaching at me as to why I'll "buy the game" regardless of my principles.

janh

02-01-10, 10:38 AM

I'd say check the numbers. Presently >>80% will wait or even refuse purchasing SHV with the requirement of having a permanent online connection, or having all saved data on an online server.

For how many of those is it a choice, how many just don't have a permanent fast online connection? And how many of those have seen so many generations of games, that there wouldn't be a choice to buy something else to cover the next 3 years until SHV comes out (patched and playable) in the budget section without DRM? Or wait till the competitors pick this subject up after the likely blunder of UBI? Or even better: Buy the developers of SHV and bring out and "SHVI" that combines all features of SHIII and SHV?

I really hope people here will stand to their word and vote with the wallet, otherwise this DRM chimaira will keep spreading and spreading while the quality of the releases goes down time after time. We really make it easy for the gaming industry to point the fingers to piracy (and that is in the end to us, isn't it?), instead of studying whether their new releases actually add sufficient new features etc.

kiwi_2005

02-01-10, 12:07 PM

I'll be getting the collectors edition cause i like what we get out of it. Ive already pre-ordered from our main online store in NZ - mightyape.co.nz. They state due 15 March i'll be expecting it like a month later they always get the dates wrong. As for the DRM thing not too worried about it, im sure its going to work out. Long as your got broadband or higher we're all be good to go.

Im more annoyed that theirs only the VII to play and we will probably be expected to buy addons to open up the other boats ingame?

theluckyone17

02-01-10, 12:14 PM

...I really hope people here will stand to their word and vote with the wallet...You'll have me standing right here. I'm might be reduced to crying, watching the features of SH5 and cursing SH3's fatigue system... but I'll be standing (or in the fetal position), without SH5 in my hand, a full wallet, just waiting for Ubisoft to pull OSP from it.

JScones

02-02-10, 04:08 AM

I'll buy the game if, and only if, Neal gives it a positive review...
Well, Neal gave SH3 full marks across the board, so he'd have to give SH5 110/100 to sway me from "the dark side". :D

Feuer Frei!

02-02-10, 09:01 AM

Approximately 80% of "gamers" who stomp their feet, wail like banshees or petition a motion to change content in a game that is in it's pre-release stage, have been found to end up up either buying the game, playing it or, both.

Would love to see the stats as game is released, "real time" monitoring taking into consideration online rego's, obviously sales etc etc etc.

You may say that you are not in that 80%....fair enough.....
The statistic is a collective one, not focused on one developer, or indeed a particular type of gamer....

To address the question: why?

To rehash, it's new, it's different, it looks friggin' good, it's time to move on and go forward.........

DRM? Online saves? Anti-piracy...........:yawn:

rascal101

02-02-10, 03:30 PM

The fact is when I heard there was to be a SH5 I leapt for joy, when I heard it was to be U-boats I leapt even higher. Then like every one else I waited and waited and waited for the first screen shots and information.

I knew there would be one or two things that would be annoying but if the previous incarnations of the game were anything to go by then the new game could only be absolutely fantastic.

Boy how wrong can you be - with every new revelation it just gets worse and worse, and that’s not just my opinion, it seem to be the general feeling of most on this forum. With every new piece of information my worse nightmares are confirmed.

I’ve really tried to keep an open mind but this has gradually given way to anger and annoyance through to sadness. The bright spot is that lately, and following the 'meet the crew' post I've now arrived at outright hysteria - the post itself and those it's spawned have been and are hilarious even though the game is now officially 'a joke'.

Eventually I came to the conclusion that even despite my curiosity and love of ever more sophisticated graphics I would probably would not buy the game, I stress probably – following the ‘meet the crew’ number it’s a definite no go, we now know what they have done to the game.

One can put up with certain aspects of a game if there are others that outweigh the negatives, however in all honesty folks, and based on what we’ve seen - apart from the graphics there's nothing that would interest some one seeking a reasonably accurate simulation of WW2 submarine warfare – lets not even mention the DRM or whatever its called and certainly not a player who’s followed SH2, 3 or 4

So here's the thing, if following the release of SH5 – if I login here at and found to my surprise that the majority of posts were from members complimenting the game and agreeing what a pleasant surprise etc, then I will toddle off to the shop and get a copy, and I will eat my hat in front of any one who cares to film it

But some how I cant think that’s going to happen, although I for one would dearly love to be wrong.

R

Platapus

02-02-10, 03:48 PM

Approximately 80% of "gamers" who stomp their feet, wail like banshees or petition a motion to change content in a game that is in it's pre-release stage, have been found to end up up either buying the game, playing it or, both.

Got anything to back up that "statistic"?

80% of statistics are created or inflated to support the person's opinion :D

How exactly would one collect the data on people complaining about the game and then NOT buying it? I think I just stepped in your statistic and I can't get it off my boot.

Sailor Steve

02-02-10, 03:56 PM

@ Rascal101: None of the things you listed would keep me from buying this game, nor would all of them put together. If what Mihai said about the modding is true then the 1943 ending is probably a good thing, considering that the campaigs are the first things to get tossed out in these things anyway. The boats? Well, if what we're told is true they can be modded.
The crew? Well, if I really hate it I don't have to play it and can have fun complaining about it.

There's only one thing that will keep me from buying SH5, and that's the great unmentionable.:sunny:

Thunder

02-02-10, 04:05 PM

Here in SA we pay shedloads for international bandwidth(roughly 10.00$ a gig), then we pay more for the actual line, depending if its 384 all the way up to 4 meg(wow 60$ a month).
(this is PERMANENT CONNECTION, not dialup)

I can get uncapped of course $250 a month.
@ 4 megs in the evenings, which is dropped lower in the day.

Then the stability of the line is dubious at best.

I can see alot of people in an entire country not getting Sh5 because DRM and ubi have actually priced us out the market. (s'okay we're small sale's UBI:up:)

I downloaded GWX gold yesterday, and it was the best 8.00 $ i've ever spent, even though its FREE.

But when i put it on my laptop, or main it STOPS costing me.

So with DRM, i can't afford to get it.

The Enigma

02-02-10, 04:43 PM

I ain't gonna buy it, unless something has been removed.
It will not be that hard, despite all the candy.
It's a matter of choice, no more no less.

Sea Demon

02-02-10, 04:48 PM

rascal101

02-02-10, 05:00 PM

I just don’t know how much you can mod a game before you have a new game -

What I'm trying to say is that with the changes so far listed you are asking the mod team to take a console offering and turn it into a real simulation with all the historical refinements that members herein would want or hope for.

I just don’t think the Subsim modders can do as much as what would be required to remove or deaden the fluff aspect - especially not with the DRM or whatever it’s called

This is not a crit of the modders if you refer to where modding is referred to in the written or video material we have - yes they assure us that modding is possible and that they may even have provided some resources to make it easier - but they also make it clear there are limits to what can be modded - read the bit referring to the campaign for a start

Of Course I could be wrong - I hope I am but not on what I've read so far -

Having said that once again I offer to eat my hat if I am wrong and folks here at SubSim start spouting praise and wonder following release

Best Regards

Rascal

@ Rascal101: None of the things you listed would keep me from buying this game, nor would all of them put together. If what Mihai said about the modding is true then the 1943 ending is probably a good thing, considering that the campaigs are the first things to get tossed out in these things anyway. The boats? Well, if what we're told is true they can be modded.
The crew? Well, if I really hate it I don't have to play it and can have fun complaining about it.

There's only one thing that will keep me from buying SH5, and that's the great unmentionable.:sunny:

HundertzehnGustav

02-02-10, 05:29 PM

In other words.....it's Capitalism. :up:
of course it is capitalism. but above all the capitalism is something more important... freedom.

ya cannot buy freedom. ya hafta fight for it :):D

Sea Demon

02-03-10, 12:43 AM

of course it is capitalism. but above all the capitalism is something more important... freedom.

ya cannot buy freedom. ya hafta fight for it :):D

You are so right, sir. :up:

JScones

02-03-10, 01:03 AM

conus00

02-03-10, 02:12 AM

TarJak

02-03-10, 02:19 AM

what a heap of philiosophical text.

its not capitalism, nor the gaming or PC industry

Its my life.
Its my Choice
Its my freedom.

Once i can get what i want for the proice i want to pay, i will do so.

Dont tell me what i, or others will do. just dont go there, please.
:shifty::stare:
In other words.....it's Capitalism. :up:
But most of all its my money.

Didn't buy SH4 (Was given 2 copies both of which sit on my disused games shelf),
Didn't buy ROF and until it remvoes the online DRM I don't want a copy.
Not planning to buy SHV now having seen the debacle that it has become and despite my early enthusiasm to see another great subsim released.

Capitalism will not make me buy something I don;t want. And when something I do want comes along then I'll consider a purchase.