Suggested Antipiracy Weapon For Ubi (merged) [Archive]

Brag

01-28-10, 09:31 AM

As this article indicates, we are not the only ones outraged by Ubi's OSP (DRM by another name) decision.

As pressure mounts in other sectors, Ubi will feel the pressure of its clients voting with their wallets.

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/ubisoft-drops-drm-but-future-games-require-internet-connection-20100127/ (http://www.geek.com/articles/games/ubisoft-drops-drm-but-future-games-require-internet-connection-20100127/)

Keep up the pressure, cracks are showing :D

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2048/ubi2.jpghttp://img63.imageshack.us/img63/710/drm3.jpg

__________________

Letum

01-28-10, 09:35 AM

:yeah: Stay solid chaps.
If we don't back down, we will force them to.

piri_reis

01-28-10, 09:44 AM

:smug: Good news.
We don't want any single player games with "always online DRM" policies!
We shall make all the noise we can.

Navarre

01-28-10, 10:15 AM

I do not know how it is with the other versions of "The Sims 3", but here in Germany, EA would had exactly the same idea with this game, you should be only able to play it if you use a permanently online connection to the EA servers. This announcement has led to low preview ratings long before the release e.g. at Amazon.de and others, and there were mass cancellations of pre-orders at various online retailers.

In the end, EA has released the game here in Germany without these DRM and it became a sales success even with the pirate copies of this game.

Lt commander lare

01-28-10, 10:16 AM

the more noise the better we keep on them never back down from a fight never stop fighting till the fight is done mush morton would have kept on fighting and we have to do the same even the german crews kept fighting when it was pure hopeless they werent doing anything but getting themselves killed but what they still went out there we need to keep there legacy alive

lt commander lare

urfisch

01-28-10, 10:19 AM

:salute:

Dowly

01-28-10, 10:25 AM

Ahaha, love the sig Letum. :haha:

Brag

01-28-10, 10:34 AM

Letum's sig is the winner, so far :haha::haha::haha:

:haha:

Lanzfeld

01-28-10, 10:44 AM

It's "bought" not "baught" but still a great sig.:yeah:

Steeltrap

01-28-10, 10:54 AM

It's "bought" not "baught" but still a great sig.:yeah:

And "paid".... great sigs, but getting the language right adds weight to them.

Cheers

Letum

01-28-10, 10:57 AM

That was sloppy of me. Fixed.

Thanks for the positive feed back. :yeah:

Gatt

01-28-10, 11:03 AM

Guys, Rise Of Flight players made neoQB re-thinking their (always online) DRM system.

It will be probably abandond in one of the next patches (they release a patch every month).

Silent Hunter community is so HUGE compared to the RoF one. You can do a lot if you hold on.

sabretwo

01-28-10, 01:31 PM

TO THE STREETS!!!

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Science/Images/angry-mob.jpg

Vanagen

01-28-10, 01:38 PM

I'm willing to put up with everything being online as long as there is absolutely no intrusive DRM installed on my system and something of a promise of online multiplayer on the horizon.

nikbear

01-28-10, 01:39 PM

Oh cool! An angry mob,always wanted to be in an angry mob,where do I get my 'flaming' torch from? :rotfl2:

Vanagen

01-28-10, 01:40 PM

Oh cool! An angry mob,always wanted to be in an angry mob,where do I get my 'flaming' torch from? :rotfl2:

*hands you a pitchfork and a tinfoil hat*

Brag

01-28-10, 01:42 PM

Yes, to the streets, up with the barricades!
I wrote a little item on Geek.com also made a comment on Youtube.
Client revolts have always been succesful!

Lurkers,get into hottest action since GWX 3.0, join the uprising!
Video wizzards:
We need a film with Doenitz haranging against OSP :O:

GlobalExplorer

01-28-10, 01:42 PM

funny.

at least I am happy that the mood is heating up ..

NO ONLINE DRM

:up:

FIREWALL

01-28-10, 01:48 PM

@ letum I'd like permission to use a copy of your sig and recommend others do likewise to show daily our oposition to DRM in SH5.

:up: @ LETUM :salute:

Vanagen

01-28-10, 01:50 PM

Gentlemen...

The time has come.

*orchestral music in background*

Are you with me?

Let's do this!

*music is soaring to a roaring crescendo*

Let's take the biggest step of them all!

Let's start...

*absolutely epic musical apotheosis*

AN ONLINE PETITION!!!!!

(relax, everything is going to be okay)

Letum

01-28-10, 01:55 PM

@ letum I'd like permission to use a copy of your sig and recommend others do likewise to show daily our oposition to DRM in SH5.

:up: @ LETUM :salute:

Like my sig says, I'm only too happy for others to use it.
Spread the good word.

Ed: :salute:

FIREWALL

01-28-10, 01:56 PM

No offense Vanagen but, other Petitions around here Ubi used as tp.

Iron Budokan

01-28-10, 02:10 PM

Keep up the pressure. :up:

Elder-Pirate

01-28-10, 02:46 PM

Like my sig says, I'm only too happy for others to use it.
Spread the good word.

Ed: :salute:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/thanks31-2.gif Letum
I'll try and put it to good use.:arrgh!:

Brag

01-28-10, 03:32 PM

According to the poll elswhere on this forum, Only 18.18% of Subsimmers will buy SH-5 with OSP installed. So let's give Ubi a 3% margin of error.

OSP is a disaster in the making for Ubi. What we are doing with our rebellion is trying to save Ubi before they run aground. :salute:

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2048/ubi2.jpghttp://img63.imageshack.us/img63/710/drm3.jpg

Delareon

01-28-10, 03:40 PM

Im now a little bit more than 3 years a member of this forum and many years more forum user of a couple of other forums. I never used a signature, because i dont like them. But this signature is an exception.

Thanks Letum.

Nickolas

01-28-10, 03:57 PM

"We shall go on till the end. We shall fight in Subsim. We shall fight on other forums. We shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the net. We shall defend our rights what ever the cost may be. We shall fight with our wallets and we shall fight on the game shops. We shall fight in the malls and in the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We will never surrender."

:rock:

difool2

01-28-10, 04:01 PM

No offense Vanagen but, other Petitions around here Ubi used as tp.

Yeah, like the one where they give us the SDK. Not.

Topo65

01-28-10, 04:05 PM

:yeah: Stay solid chaps.
If we don't back down, we will force them to.

OT: Thanks for the sign, Letum! :yeah:

Nickolas

01-28-10, 04:20 PM

http://www.mzzt.net/tf2/crit/light/backstab/red/Ubisoft/blue/SH%20fans.png

Ubisoft: Gentlemen...

johan_d

01-28-10, 04:22 PM

'There is no need to be worried about anything, go to bed and sleep'

- Minister president Colijn 1936 in the Netherlads when the Germans invaded the Rhineland and militarized it.

Vanagen

01-28-10, 04:55 PM

No offense Vanagen but, other Petitions around here Ubi used as tp.

I was being sarcastic, which doesn't work on the internet.

Neither do petitions.

Brag

01-28-10, 07:34 PM

Only one thing works with executive suite of a company--money.

Spread the word to other gamers and vote with your wallet.

It is too early to tell if our protest has yet gone viral. But stuff that affects gamers around the world (not only us) will spread.

Ubi is in the same position of Von Paulus at the beginning of tf the battle os Stalingrad. He didn't realize how pissed off the Russian people where.

nearly 80% of Subsimmers are outraged. Other gamers are, too. We'll take the fight right into the Ubi bunker, if needed

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2048/ubi2.jpghttp://img63.imageshack.us/img63/710/drm3.jpg
Feel free to use any of these sigs for your self. Vive la resistance!

sabretwo

01-28-10, 08:12 PM

Only one thing works with executive suite of a company--money.

Spread the word to other gamers and vote with your wallet.

It is too early to tell if our protest has yet gone viral. But stuff that affects gamers around the world (not only us) will spread.
!
I think it already is. I spoke with my IT manager on my way out of the office today. He's not a subsimmer, but he is a very active gamer and keeps an eye on what's going on in the gaming industry. According to him, EVERYONE (industry mags, broad industry news sites, blogs, etc.) is in an uproar over this!

If the outrage is that far and wide, I have a feeling that UBI is making a monumental business mistake.

There are quite a few folks like me who are pushed out on this because of lack of continuous connectivity. (An issue of practical access to the game because of geography, travel, time and place of play habits, etc.). But an even larger percentage of the outrage seems to be on issues of principle...That is the kind of anger that goes viral!

I wonder how much research UBI did before implementing this decision? :hmmm: Smart companies usually do very careful research on this type of thing before making such radical decisions.

I might be wrong, but I see this as a possible ticking time bomb for UBI. Time of detonation: Fiscal Q2 2010! (Sell that stock now kids before its too late!!!!)

KL-alfman

01-28-10, 08:30 PM

But an even larger percentage of the outrage seems to be on issues of principle...That is the kind of anger that goes viral!

yep!
this is the main issue.
nobody can expect me to let him/her into my house, if I dont like to. why should it be different with PC-games?
I don't even consider to activate an account with UBI because I don't like to and don't like to be forced to.
therefore I just can't buy the game and will stick to SH3/GWX3
no regret! :D

Iron Budokan

01-28-10, 08:51 PM

I was checking up on the Internet. Man, they are really ripping this DRM stuff over at Eurogamer.... :rock:

Lord Justice

01-28-10, 08:51 PM

:yeah: Stay solid chaps.
If we don't back down, we will force them to.Here here, discipline men, we shall hold the lines, we must maintain the ranks and files, fit to sound out in good order our severe censure to such an act. Let us have steam at very most, to at least play offline say i. :damn:

Brag

01-28-10, 09:15 PM

I was checking up on the Internet. Man, they are really ripping this DRM stuff over at Eurogamer.... :rock:

The internet is abuzz. Standing at the cutting edge where a game is to be released, we are just the front rank of the opposition to DRM/OSP. We have millions, yes, millions of backers!

Who is the giant, Ubi or our ideals?

IanC

01-28-10, 09:19 PM

Who is the giant, Ubi or our ideals?

Our ideals!!! *pumps his pitchfork in the air

bigboywooly

01-28-10, 09:28 PM

Interesting

One other concern: Ubisoft’s authentication servers aren’t guaranteed for life, and 10 years from now, players could be shut out of the game they bought. In fact, last time Ubisoft tried online authentication with Assassin’s Creed, some players had trouble (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/04/assassins-creed-on-the-pc-bad-ui-bad-drm-bad-port.ars) immediately after purchasing.http://technologizer.com/2010/01/27/ubisoft-to-pc-gamers-you-must-play-online/

Letum

01-29-10, 03:47 AM

Interesting

http://technologizer.com/2010/01/27/ubisoft-to-pc-gamers-you-must-play-online/

Well waddya know!
No surprise there. :shifty:

Alienfresser

01-29-10, 03:58 AM

Before you leave to UBI HQ I just wanted to say:

"When you come upon him, know this: Pardon will not be given. Prisoners will not be taken. Bear your weapons so that for a thousand years no UBI-Manager will dare even to squint at a SubSim-Member.
Carry yourselves like men, and the blessing of God go with you. The prayers of the entire nation and my good wishes go with you, each and everyone. Open the way for civilization once and for all!

Now you can depart! Adieu, comrades!" :salute:

Kaiser Wilhelm II

Brag

01-29-10, 05:29 PM

The secret password of the rebellion is MOO :D

If you haven't visited the Are We Cattle? thread, find out why MOO is the word.

Mhen you say MOO, we know who you are and what you mean. :salute:

FIREWALL

01-29-10, 05:37 PM

Like my sig says, I'm only too happy for others to use it.
Spread the good word.

Ed: :salute:

Thx letum I'll fire up my Image Shack and get it installed. :salute:

Letum

01-29-10, 05:42 PM

Thx letum I'll fire up my Image Shack and get it installed. :salute:

Feel free to hotlink too.

coronas

01-30-10, 07:50 AM

Hold the line!!! :salute:

HundertzehnGustav

01-30-10, 08:01 AM

MOOOOOOooooooo:yeah:

janh

01-30-10, 11:42 AM

Indeed let the wallet vote. If you are willing to sacrifice your customer rights for SHV, fine, enjoy it. Nothing wrong with it. But what DRM will come next?

I thought the music industry and online stores particularly have learned from the DRM disaster and removing copy protections. Piracy is overstated, and nobody comes up with hard numbers. Many causes for piracy -- lack of demo, lack of quality of products (no new features other than polished graphics, which only attracts younger, less "financially liquid" gamers, etc; no new game ideas; setbacks even in comparison to earlier titles of the owen series etc.). I have grown up with games on C64 and early PC days, and I tell you those were others days. Games came up with new features, and functions, and realism, and a lesson in history, physics or anything "exciting". But just "new engine, better wave effcts, new graphic explosions" or similar details were low on the list on the backside of your new box...
Now if customers don't feel being taken serious by delivering them a products that enhance previous qualities sufficiently for the given price... Customers are not fools, and lobbying politicians to crank down on copyright etc. will be only a short term fix for the symptom, but in the long run low quality will at some point mean low sales. However, it is cheaper than investing double the time into a product. I am not an expert on this, but I have the impression the consumer IT industrie cranks out products at a much faster rate than 10 years ago. No development time, likely no real progress.

The gaming market has seen a lot of dynamics. Well, DYNAMICS Aces of the Deep, after the Silent Service series surely the best of the subsims still. SH3 close on the heels. But that shows that there is no reason why another competitor won't pick up the subject soon after they watch UBI getting the proper market response from customers. And I bet you in 3-5 years a competitor will provide us with what you can consider a sequel to "Aces of the Deep" or the SH series. They are just waiting. I have been waiting a long time since AoD, so why not wait another 3-5 years for something that is worth my rare leisure time then. Until then, there are plenty other good games without nasty DRM on the market. And UBI's competitors will hopefully be more thankful for my money.

JScones

01-30-10, 06:41 PM

I was checking up on the Internet. Man, they are really ripping this DRM stuff over at Eurogamer.... :rock:
I did a general Google last night - they're ripping into it everywhere; in most of the upcoming game forums!

Funny in a sense, because the threads are exactly the same as here, with the same arguments, same counter-arguments etc and so forth.

longam

01-30-10, 07:12 PM

I just downloaded the ROF demo and played it with DRM and it really wasn't that much different then without it.

I don't know, I'm starting to think we don't want it because it has become the norm of the forum to see negative.

I have to trust on a stable internet connection to a server somewhere in someplace everyday for our corp email and ISP to work. You have to trust on a server somewhere and someplace to get on the internet everyday. You have to trust on a server somewhere and someplace to be here and posting everyday.

I'm changing my view and buying SH5 with or without DRM. I just hope that it makes a difference on piracy so we can have some great games to come in the future.

longam

Méo

01-30-10, 07:13 PM

Funny in a sense, because the threads are exactly the same as here, with the same arguments, same counter-arguments etc and so forth.

Are those arguments based on something concrete?

I didn't see all comments in every threads here, but that's what it seems to be missing here, IMO.

What I would like to see is some CONCRETE EVIDENCE that DRM used in other games was a failure (cause we cannot base our reasoning on a game that we haven't tested yet).

I guess I'm not learning you anything new when I say that things like:
I don't want to, I hate it, it's crap, etc. are not evidence.

The thing is that I would like to be objectively convinced by some real evidence, links, you know...

It's kinda boring to see only expression of anger...

At the risk to agree once again with you. :O:

HundertzehnGustav

01-30-10, 07:22 PM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1252541&postcount=1

this gentleman right here said something INDICATING it does not do the game any good.
But no numbers.

Brag

01-30-10, 07:34 PM

Being a keen student of FU's, I have followed the War on Drugs, The War on Terror and many other balls-ups. If Ubi has such huge loses to piracy, it would behoove it to do something that works.

Hit pirates where it hurts. Like legit companies, pirates need customers. So, lure customers away from pirates.

Give customers incentives to buy the legitiate, true product.

If you had a monthly raffle for registred customers with a substantial cash reward, let's say 1,000 euros or a sexy computer and let's say another 10 prizes of 100 euros, there would be a strong incentive to buy from you and legitimate retail outlets than from pirates. This would be much cheaper than messing with servers, which only increase your risks of exposure to hackers.

Have contests, get closer to your client base, make it fun for someone to belong to a Ubi club. Use your imagination on the positive cures to problems..

You know that there is a rebellion among your hardcore SH clients. This is a perfect opportunity to approach them and learn how to keep clients happy.

We all wish Ubi well. Just don't shove ugly stuff down our throat.

Moo,
Brag

PS: If you don't know what moo stnds for, you lack knowledge of your client base.

Webster

01-30-10, 07:38 PM

sort of like "don't pee on my leg, then tell me its raining"

Méo

01-30-10, 07:46 PM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1252541&postcount=1

this gentleman right here said something INDICATING it does not do the game any good.
But no numbers.

Interesting, but it is only a single example (it may be an exception, who knows?), nothing tells me it represents a global situation.

Stealth Hunter

01-30-10, 07:46 PM

I've still got the game under my Amazon preorders. How many others are left?

Really, the whole online thing doesn't bother me at all. But then again, I rarely have problems with it. I still love Rise of Flight, and the only thing that could make me not love SH5 is if they completely mess up the game mechanics. Otherwise, I don't really care. If I can play it, and I like how it plays, all's well in Denmark.

HundertzehnGustav

01-30-10, 07:52 PM

more like: show us your smile as you hold your newly aquired SHV disk, and you might win a SHV T-shirt!

Elder-Pirate

01-30-10, 08:04 PM

The secret password of the rebellion is MOO :D

If you haven't visited the Are We Cattle? thread, find out why MOO is the word.

Mhen you say MOO, we know who you are and what you mean. :salute:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/MOOooooooo.jpg

MOOOOoooooooooo

TwistedFemur

01-30-10, 08:06 PM

just my 2 cents. Take it for what its worth.

I bought Rise of Flight and enjoyed it immensly (sp) until.......

After a few weeks of playing as the ROF community grew and more and more people bought and played it. I noticed that i was getting more and more "lost connection to master server" errors as the server struggled with all the conections.

well I guess my point is.... there is going to be a point where the server is not going to be able to handle all the connections.

As an anti-pirating scheme required internet connection works well and to my knowledge ROF has not been successfully copied.....but...... hundreds, if not thousands of people have decided not to buy it because of the internet connection requirement and the extremely long load times as the server checks the code at start up and in between each mission.

THE_MASK

01-30-10, 08:25 PM

SH5 could be activated once online when first installed . They need to offer DLC thru there OSP such as new subs . No need to be constantly connected to play SH5 .

HundertzehnGustav

01-30-10, 08:25 PM

sounds like you have been sold a promise... and they are not willing/able to keep it.

thanks for the warning...

JScones

01-30-10, 08:29 PM

Are those arguments based on something concrete?
Nup, at least nothing that I could find. You could just as well take any thread here and replace SH5 with <insert game name>.

Pretty much lots ofhttp://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/images/smilies/extras/cussing2.gif and oodles of http://www.thedailyscrapper.com/forum/images/tds/smilies/smiley_emoticons_panik3.gif and http://www.spartantailgate.com/forums/images/smilies/panic.gif

Task Force

01-30-10, 08:34 PM

well, anouther thing wold be to stop chargeing 40 or 50 dollars for a game, people dont want to pay 30 to 50 bucks to buy something that could be a POS...

Elder-Pirate

01-30-10, 08:44 PM

Nup, at least nothing that I could find. You could just as well take any thread here and replace SH5 with <insert game name>.

Pretty much lots ofhttp://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/images/smilies/extras/cussing2.gif and oodles of http://www.thedailyscrapper.com/forum/images/tds/smilies/smiley_emoticons_panik3.gif and http://www.spartantailgate.com/forums/images/smilies/panic.gif

Yeah but the question is are you going to MOO or not? :haha:

THE_MASK

01-30-10, 08:46 PM

well, anouther thing wold be to stop chargeing 40 or 50 dollars for a game, people dont want to pay 30 to 50 bucks to buy something that could be a POS...
$88 at ebgames here in aus .

Stealth Hunter

01-30-10, 08:46 PM

Task Force

01-30-10, 08:49 PM

lol... 88$ games arnt worth almost 100$:yep: NO game is.

subsimlee

01-30-10, 09:45 PM

Just thought of something that would really get Ubi to rethink this DRM/OSP thing. Much has been said about showing displeasure with your wallet. We know this is hard to quantify; how's Ubi to know exactly how many COULD have bought the sim ( or any of the future games they plan to apply this scheme ) .
The one source that they can have good and clear numbers from is their stock value. If we can make noise in the right venues.......... venues that shareholders frequent, they're going to see that there are real risks to the value of the stocks they hold in Ubi and start bailing out before they lose their shirts.
That IMHO may just get Ubi's attention in the concrete manner that might put this horrible issue to rest for good!

TwistedFemur

01-30-10, 09:58 PM

Odd. What kind of connection are you using? Because I've been playing it so far with no problems at all. Even on my wireless.:hmmm:

maybe its because I am over 5000 miles from moscow. But I havnt played ROF in over a month. Ive completly lost interest in it because of the 2 reasons stated in my OP

Tok

01-30-10, 11:40 PM

Well, where I live you do not depend on being online much......it's down most of the time. Well damm it anyway.....i'm not buying SH5 I guess. :cry:

Gatt

01-31-10, 01:56 AM

Interesting, but it is only a single example (it may be an exception, who knows?), nothing tells me it represents a global situation.

Look, my NDA allows me to say that I'm a RoF beta-tester and I can assure you the DRM can be a PITA. To be honest, not always but for some guys OFTEN. From time to time servers and/or your connection ARE down. It happens. I can tell you that since I've been an AcesHigh2 player for 6-7 years. When it happens ITS FRUSTRATING.

RoF (with the Dogfight dedicated servers) and AH2 are online simulations but SH5, AFAIK and in any case for me, is mainly an offline sim. This kind of DRM, for offliners IS an obvious problem. What will I do from my country house (no internet connection) if I want to play on my laptop? I'd curse UBI?

Players, through hundreds of posts made neoQB change his mind about it and they probably will drop it in the near future for offline playing.

You dont know how many people are waiting for this drop before buying RoF. Many of my friends are.

What about the old DVD in the player and a thick printed manual? What about Battlefront online activation? Or Steam? Players would prefer (and/or) accept these systems instead of the "always online" DRM.

HundertzehnGustav

01-31-10, 07:44 AM

I remember settlers II, where you had to have the manual , to get some sympbols in it, to activate/verify if you were a legit user. That was fun, back in the day.

Brag

01-31-10, 08:01 AM

This morning it only took me a few seconds to find anger against Ubi, not here, not about subsims, but other games.

Ubi is faced with a general customer revolt!

Try it yourself:

Type Ubisoft forum SH-5 on your browser.

Moo!

HundertzehnGustav

01-31-10, 09:11 AM

should i go there?

i have seen the Ubi-zoo, and do not dare stepping back in again...
but curious i am! whats up?

Steeltrap

01-31-10, 09:17 AM

should i go there?

i have seen the Ubi-zoo, and do not dare stepping back in again...
but curious i am! whats up?

I went and read a thread. Much the same as you'll see, with many posters saying "constant internet connection for single player makes no sense".

Oh, and Tim Renken (a.k.a. Trenken) is posting there about its merits, too.

HundertzehnGustav

01-31-10, 09:21 AM

...bull-poo...

Its pretty unhealthy in here latelty, a situation that nobody cares much for.
no need for me to bring their pile of crap in here by copypaste :)

*silently awaits the offline days of SHV*

Jimbuna

01-31-10, 09:21 AM

should i go there?

i have seen the Ubi-zoo, and do not dare stepping back in again...
but curious i am! whats up?

You should pay the forum a visit...it can often be a good source of entertainment...the bun fights are the best parts of the show :DL

HundertzehnGustav

01-31-10, 09:28 AM

No no, today is Sunday, day of Peace and praise for The Lord.:timeout:

Only tomorrow will we be back in the thick of the action!:haha:

Reaves

01-31-10, 09:30 AM

What I'll miss about SH5 is playing it on my laptop when I'm not at home. I sure as hell won't be paying for mobile internet...

Thanks Ubi!

theluckyone17

01-31-10, 10:14 AM

should i go there?

i have seen the Ubi-zoo, and do not dare stepping back in again...
but curious i am! whats up?

I hit the "UPlay" forum, where there's quite a few threads complaining about issues or being unable to connect to the UPlay server(s). Ubisoft states "The service is currently in beta so some issues are inevitable during the beta period, however we thank you for your patience while we look into the issue and will update you as soon as we know more."

OSP had better be implemented a lot smoother than this if they want the gaming community to put up with it...

tater

01-31-10, 11:03 AM

The concrete arguments need to be on the Ubi side (they are after all trying to convince us to buy this (ie: "selling").

The only 3 that really matter:

1. Can we play without a net connection (laptops, etc).

2. Can they promise 100% that we will NEVER not be able to play due to errors on Ubis part (sever downtime without auto-switching to a backup). And I do mean NEVER.

3. Can they promise that we will never be prevented from playing due to the net—not our personal ISP connections, but the internet at large (short of acts of god—hurricanes, earthquakes, things where people die are a viable excuse, nothing else).

#1 is arguably less important, #2 is a show-stopper, IMO, and 3 is nearly as important as 2.

Can they guarantee the internet, in other words. Not a patch that comes the next day, I want proof ahead of time that the net is now perfected, and that they have a track record of 100% server uptime as far as the end-user is concerned. Not 99%, not 99.9%, 100% uptime.

If they cannot make this promise, how do they plan on reimbursing me?

tater

John Channing

01-31-10, 11:11 AM

Guys... let's pleeeeeeease not get into cross-forum stuff again. We have enough of our own issues here without opening that can of worms again.

Thanks,

JCC

Méo

01-31-10, 11:16 AM

but the internet at large (short of acts of god—hurricanes, earthquakes, things where people die are a viable excuse, nothing else).

:o ...:stare:

If such things occur in my region, I WILL HAVE OTHER CONCERNS THAN A VIDEO GAME!!!

If such things occur in other region of the world, a bit of tolerance is never a bad choice!

I'm gonna talk for myself, but if people in some place in the world SUFFER THE LACK OF PRIMARY NEEDS (i.e. lack of water, lack of food, etc.), I'm not gonna complain because I CAN'T PLAY MY VIDEO GAME.

Jeez... some people are...:nope::nope::nope:

HundertzehnGustav

01-31-10, 12:07 PM

If they cannot make this promise, how do they plan on reimbursing me?

tater

and that is when we drag them to court!

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1253691&postcount=17

:yeah:

Wayyy too many factors involved.
I dont need a promise, i can take care of my own Gaming.

Brag

01-31-10, 06:01 PM

Based on the reduced visits to this thread, it looks like few people are interested in positively helping Ubi :|\\

jerm138

01-31-10, 06:42 PM

I like your train of thought :hmmm:

What if legitimate copies came with tangible incentives that the gameplay somewhat depends on?

I'm talking about things like:

Printed AoB calculator
A map with information not found on the in-game map... information that is crucial to certain missions.
Printed strategy guide (not like a huge expensive one, but something that sums up a lot of the strategies for intercepting and targeting.) They could have asked for help from this community and I'm sure that many talented folks would have jumped at the opportunity to contribute to the project.

Sure, people could get by without these things, or download and print them on their own... but at some point the effort wouldn't be worth the savings.

It's nearly impossible to punish the pirates, but if you reward paying customers, the honest route might start looking better than the pirating route.

ME$$ENGER

01-31-10, 06:47 PM

That's my thought exactly. DRM doesn't reward paying customers. If anything it's more like a punishment. You want to stop piracy, you have to give paying customers something that pirates don't have. When the pirates want them, too, there will naturally be more sales.

SeaWolf U-57

01-31-10, 06:49 PM

He has something there.
how about selling the game to registered users then restricting the SH5 threads to the users that have purchase the game through legal channels IE. Ubisoft or here on Subsim then only allow updates or Mods to be show in the limited access threads.
no need for any other crap then. :salute:

It762

02-01-10, 04:53 AM

I would start to "release" broken and virus contaminated versions into the illegal channels so it takes a lot of tries for a pirate to grab a working copy.

Best break the versions so they install but cause CTD etc...

That would be what I do if i sell stuff. It will likely not stop the people in the "scene" but for these people you would need the police and some moles anyway :)

Contests and these kind of marketing activities are great but i think it will not affect the people who anyway play only for free...

I know many people who (also for audio cds) have a terrible mentality to get everything for free and do not even see themselves in oding something wrong.

I dont think that any positive marketing actions or extras would get a "born" pirate to rethink his actions.

Arclight

02-01-10, 09:13 AM

well, anouther thing wold be to stop chargeing 40 or 50 dollars for a game, people dont want to pay 30 to 50 bucks to buy something that could be a POS...
Try living in Holland. :shifty:

30-50 Dollar? Try 30-50 Euro. That's almost 40% more. Always gives me a laugh when Americans complain about prices. :lol: ;)

razark

02-01-10, 09:21 AM

Printed strategy guide (not like a huge expensive one, but something that sums up a lot of the strategies for intercepting and targeting.) They could have asked for help from this community and I'm sure that many talented folks would have jumped at the opportunity to contribute to the project.

Intercepting and targeting? That's really not strategy guide material. That's stuff that should be included in the manual.

How about including a manual that's more than a quick reference guide?

Highbury

02-01-10, 09:29 AM

Try living in Holland. :shifty:

30-50 Dollar? Try 30-50 Euro. That's almost 40% more. Always gives me a laugh when Americans complain about prices. :lol: ;)

Well just because European (and Australian) prices are criminal does not mean N. American prices are not bad lol :up:

I still think the best cure for piracy is a good product, for a reasonable price, in a desirable package.

Mikhayl

02-01-10, 09:40 AM

Best thing against piracy:
http://mngband.com/files/DSCF05521.jpg

Sure you can scan that to pdf, but it's a real hassle to check while playing, if at all possible (some games don't take alt-tabing). You can also print it but then I think it'd be about as costly as buying the game, for a lot of trouble and a poor result.

jerm138

02-01-10, 10:18 AM

Contests and these kind of marketing activities are great but i think it will not affect the people who anyway play only for free...

The thing is... those people wouldn't buy the game anyway, even without pirated copies, so it's no use doing anything to attract them. The only reason they would consider playing it is because they can get it for free. Either way, UBI doesn't get their money.

The people that there IS hope for are the ones who are "fence-sitters." The ones who might buy it, but might just download it instead for convenience. You could sway them to buy the game by offering incentives.

Or you could push them to take the pirate route by punishing them (the current DRM plan) for buying it.

Robsoie

02-01-10, 11:20 AM

Best thing against piracy:
[IM]http://mngband.com/files/DSCF05521.jpg[/IMG]

Sure you can scan that to pdf, but it's a real hassle to check while playing, if at all possible (some games don't take alt-tabing). You can also print it but then I think it'd be about as costly as buying the game, for a lot of trouble and a poor result.

Yes, agree entirely http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/icons/icon14.gif
Giving real customer value to the legal product, fine old school packaging that no downloaded file can emulate (i always remember an old strategy game on my cpc464 that came with a wargaming map and dices+plastic units), getting additional downloadable content and support upgrades in such way a pirated product could not download them (put the authentification/control at this process, not on the retail product and not after) etc... is the way to go.

Basically you need to give the pirate the will to buy the product even if he got it from the internet before.
Putting drm in the retail game, or just getting it a half assed support will certainly not do that.

floundericiousWA

02-01-10, 12:31 PM

Releasing a free demo is a great way to prevent piracy. If the only way to even TRY a game is to get a warez copy, then people have a massive incentive to "try" the cracked game.

If you download the sample demo, you can pay more for the full game (less than the disc version but without the tangible in-box extras) then pay for DLC... if you elect to pay for the "deluxe edition" then you get free DLC for a certain time.

If you buy the disk, you get the full game plus certain free downloads of DLC (validated with your CD-Key)...and some nice tangible extras.

If you elect to buy the deluxe version on disc, you get all DLC released in the first two years free plus some nicer tangibles...or something like that.

*shrug* or you can just stick one in the eye of your customers

FIREWALL

02-01-10, 12:45 PM

Brag

02-01-10, 12:45 PM

Projectin Ubisoft Into The Future.

May 2012

In celebration of the 200th. Anniversary of Napoleon Bonaparte’s triumphal entrance into Moscow, Obisoft is proud to announce the new games, Imperial Power and Half a Sub is Better than no Soup at All.

Other great news you will love, is our Golden Crown membership program. You no longer will have to pay the annual membership to Golden Submarine in one lump sum. For only 20 euros a month you will have unlimited access to our servers and play Half a Sub 24 hours a day in as many computers as you like.

To avoid losing service, please make sure to send us your new credit card number 30 days prior to the expiration of your present card. For those of you who have not yet contributed the 100 euros to the SFC (server fix up contribution,) you have until June to voluntarily contribute before we transfer you to the Class C membership program.

From Ubi, with love
Amour L’Argent
Costumer Service Director

Randomizer

02-01-10, 12:52 PM

I would think that UBISoft's version of Napoleon's Russian campaign would have ended just before the Battle of Borodino. You know, just when things started to go wrong for Nappy...

kapitan_zur_see

02-01-10, 01:00 PM

Instead of fighting the pirates, infest their own nest...
Release 3 to 4 torrents right after release date that looks credibles enough but are massively broken once tried to be installed and then wait for next downloaders to be lured and by doing so, will help to spread exponentially those torrents untill it spams the whole torrent network. If people just have to download like three or four torrents of 2 to 3GB each to have a chance of grabbing the only valid one, the average pirate will tend to give away trying to find SH5 pretty quickly... Would work especially for games that are not highly seeked after

My french fellow compatriots will understand me if I say: "C'est l'arroseur arrosé!" ;)

Letum

02-01-10, 01:04 PM

Ubisoft Releases 2011:

Ubi-Tetris
Unlike normal Tetris, ubi-Tetris ends on level 12, before things get
challenging. You will also only be able to play the '4 block square' shape.
Tetris shapes featured in previous tetris games may, or may not be
featured in future addons.
Previous Tetris games where 'random', but Ubi-Tetris will feature a
'dynamic' game mode where the place you put the block decides the
next block to appear.
You must be online and signed into Ubisoft in office hours to play ubi-Tetris.

Contains Soup.

Méo

02-01-10, 01:04 PM

Who cares about it, it will be the end of the world in 2012...

...and there goes the collective depression. :nope:

karamazovnew

02-01-10, 01:17 PM

Good one Brag :har:.

CNN 2012

"In a related news today, an angry mob was dispersed today from the Federative Ubisoft Control and Knowledge (F.U.C.K) headquarters. The dangerous criminals were said to be former loyal customers that took to a life of crime by refusing to continue their subscriptions. Police reports state that 9 policemen were hurt and 3 criminals were killed. The angry mob, believed to have initially had numbered a total of 4 members, later dispersed to his home, awaiting arrest and prosecution. "

TDK1044

02-01-10, 01:27 PM

No. Here's the future.......

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/8111046728/p/11

:DL

jerm138

02-01-10, 01:38 PM

Releasing a free demo is a great way to prevent piracy. If the only way to even TRY a game is to get a warez copy, then people have a massive incentive to "try" the cracked game.

I hadn't considered that, but I think it's very true.

If a casual gamer can TRY it for free (demo), then they're more likely to spring the $50, instead of just gambling away $50 on a game they could end up hating because it's not their style.

The ONLY reason I got into SH3/SH4 is because SH3 was on sale at Steam for $5. Having never played a submarine game before, I would have never even CONSIDERED paying $50 for one without knowing what it's like. BUT... if I had played a demo and saw just how great it was, I would have paid the full $50 for it if need-be. I lucked out and got into the game late and only got set back $20 for SH3, SH4, and U-Boat Missions.

On the flipside of that... if you put out a free demo, it had better be a DAMN good product or you'll lose a lot of sales.... a risk that some companies might not be willing to take.

I play a lot of demos, and they often lead to a sale. I can only think of a couple times where I bought a game without trying it first or playing another version of it.

Dowly

02-01-10, 01:38 PM

Instead of fighting the pirates, infest their own nest...
Release 3 to 4 torrents right after release date that looks credibles enough but are massively broken once tried to be installed and then wait for next downloaders to be lured and by doing so, will help to spread exponentially those torrents untill it spams the whole torrent network. If people just have to download like three or four torrents of 2 to 3GB each to have a chance of grabbing the only valid one, the average pirate will tend to give away trying to find SH5 pretty quickly... Would work especially for games that are not highly seeked after

My french fellow compatriots will understand me if I say: "C'est l'arroseur arrosé!" ;)

I think you underestimate the pirates. It's a community, like any other, people will let others know if the game doesnt work and it will be quickly taken down from the site. Besides, most sites have "trusted" members who release working games, the average pirate only has to wait a game to be uploaded by one of these "trusted" members and he knows immediately that it works.

jerm138

02-01-10, 01:53 PM

Instead of fighting the pirates, infest their own nest...
Release 3 to 4 torrents right after release date that looks credibles enough but are massively broken once tried to be installedUnfortunately, Pirates are much smarter than this.
The people who write and distribute the cracks have reputations to uphold. If some new guy pops onto the scene and offers something, and it turns out to be "broken," nobody will seed that torrent and it will quickly die. Most people will only download torrents from a well-known "reputable" source. The guy who downloads a .exe from an unknown hacker is the same type of guy who would walk alone and unarmed into a bad area of Detroit wearing a Rolex watch and $500 shoes.

The only purpose this would serve is to strike back at a few dumb kids who decided to try a game for free. Whooptie doo. It wouldn't put a dent in the pirating of a game.

The biggest defense this game will have agains pirates is the fact that it's a niche game, and as much as UBI wants to reach the mainstream market, not many people are going to be interested in a submarine simulator (or even a "shooter", depending on how it turns out.) It's too much work to interest casual gamers, even with health bars and auto-targeting. Compared to games like Call of Duty, it's like watching grass grow to a casual gamer.

The only sales they will "lose" are the ones from the fence-sitters who MIGHT buy it, or MIGHT download it illegally. Offering them incentives is about the only way to sway them in your direction. Giving them a demo to try would help a lot too. Strong-arming them into restrictive DRM will only send them in the other direction.

Sailor Steve

02-01-10, 02:04 PM

I'm in full agreement. People like this stuff. I know I do. :DL
:yep:

I still have my Silent Service and Their Finest Hour stuff for my old Atari, and Aces Of The Deep and SH1 with all those goodies.:salute:

AVGWarhawk

02-01-10, 02:04 PM

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/521723595_8659c5d91f.jpg

kapitan_zur_see

02-01-10, 02:10 PM

Brag

02-01-10, 02:17 PM

Ubifans are as peeved as weare

Moo

Dowly

02-01-10, 02:26 PM

There's a difference between pirates that are indeed clever and organized, and your everyday downloader that does not know the teams and etc. They just launch a torrent client and bareky do a search. They only knows, and that's not even all of them, to merely check if the size of the torrent is credible or not. Those downloaders are the greatest amount of people that represent the piracy threat, not the pirates by themselves... However, I do recognize that the seeding problem is one of critical matter

Noooo, you're underestimating them again. :03: When someone makes a search for a game, if their IQ is anything higher than 1, they will look for the most popular torrent they see and these are in most cases, the torrents that work.

IanC

02-01-10, 02:32 PM

Yarr!

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4476/44927191.jpg

Catfish

02-01-10, 02:44 PM

Hello,
i have a quite simple idea for the perfect DRM model, no permanent internet conection required, only now and then, maybe depending on time interval or level (date-related) of a campaign. Would probably also work with other games, however it could be implemented perfectly into the Silent Hunter series.
It is not invincible, but the effort to crack it would be enormous, and you would have to do it again from time to time, thus piling up real-time decyphering computing time.

The trick is that every paying customer gets a one time pad with his sim - everyone another one, that is - maybe depending on the serial number that also has to be unique for each sold sim. You could clutch this to PGP military encryption, or think out something else just for the sim.
(For those who are not familiar with PGP or pretty good privacy, just google it).

The thing is the SH 5 or whatever-user sends a request to Ubi, for getting HIS own one time pad, being sent encrypted. You can then enter this code into your in-game enigma (a real working one, as can be found to download all over the web, but being pretty useless without the rigth settings), programming it with the serial number of your game, and read out the outcome following your unique registration number. Without this rigth code the game will then cease to work.

Maybe receive a message from BdU/UBI (lol), and act according to the order. If you cannot decypher it and act accordingly (reach a certain position, sink a special ship, meet a milk cow or other boat/commerce raider giving you new orders within a certain time), the sim will stop.

Would this work ? I guess it would, but it's certainly overkill - but then this current UBI-DRM idea also is - and the pgp idea is not intruding at all.

Greetings,
Catfish

Brag

02-01-10, 03:25 PM

Catfish,
Your idea sounds intriguing. I wonder if the brains at Ubi would be able to understand it :D

KL-alfman

02-01-10, 06:37 PM

I liked most:
"I want to dive with my laptop but it has no connection to internet" :cry:

Kapitanleutnant

02-01-10, 06:44 PM

Shoot me now.

THE_MASK

02-01-10, 07:05 PM

You wouldnt believe it , i bought a house and today it settled and when i read the documents it says i dont actually own it and the landlord can turf me out whenever he wants . Sound familiar .

JScones

02-02-10, 03:38 AM

I would think that UBISoft's version of Napoleon's Russian campaign would have ended just before the Battle of Borodino. You know, just when things started to go wrong for Nappy...
:haha:

urfisch

02-02-10, 12:54 PM

You wouldnt believe it , i bought a house and today it settled and when i read the documents it says i dont actually own it and the landlord can turf me out whenever he wants . Sound familiar .

the so called "entertainment" industry has turned into a drugstore, which has full control of its customers. and if you dont want to be addicted, you need to throw all of your electric gadgets out of the window...far from home. this is the only way to be free again. and boycotts will never work, as too many dumb asses are weak, consuming and supporting the drug-suppliers. the nicely and open minded "casual gamers"...the new heaven for gaming.

theres nothing new on that.

:nope:

Brag

02-04-10, 07:01 AM

Who was it who said, A sucker is born every day?
Let’s look at Ubi’s OSP way of doing business transactions.
1.) You give them money
2.) They take it and they send you a DVD
3.) You are now a little bit poorer, Ubi made a bit of money
4.) You install game, register, connect to server and play
5.) Ubi spends money every time you log in to OSP
6.) The more you play, the more money UBI has to spend on you
7.) Ubi does not like spending money after they made a sale.
8.) Now they know your playing habits. Since you save your game on their server, this storage space not only costs Ubi more and more, but they also learn about your personality.
9.) Eventually comes the day when the say, we will no longer spend money to keep this sucker online.
10.) Good morning, sucker! Now you pay us if you want to keep playing.

That’s the 10 Step Program.
Not many suckers are falling for this scheme, but a few are.
Those complaining about the negativity in this forum, watch your wallets!

Mud

02-04-10, 07:14 AM

Hmm let me see, normal fee is about 13 euros a month to keep your account active.
But keep in mind that money is well spend to take the servers down for maintenance on regular bases to keep it up to date.

Mud

urfisch

02-04-10, 07:22 AM

we need to make use of the "viral marketing effect" and post in all available forums and blogs about the bad facts of this game.

we need really bad publicity...this is what might work to send some signal...

evan82

02-04-10, 07:52 AM

1.) You give them money
2.) They take it and they send you a DVD
3.) You are now a little bit poorer, Ubi made a bit of money
4.) You install game, register, connect to server and play
5.) Ubi spends money every time you log in to OSP
6.) The more you play, the more money UBI has to spend on you
7.) Ubi does not like spending money after they made a sale.
8.) Now they know your playing habits. Since you save your game on their server, this storage space not only costs Ubi more and more, but they also learn about your personality.
9.) Eventually comes the day when the say, we will no longer spend money to keep this sucker online.
10.) Good morning, sucker! Now you pay us if you want to keep playing.
Not only UBI scare me with ideas like this. In the nearest 2-4 years "someone" probably made another Windows based on the "10 steps program", or something similar.:nope:

Gato76

02-04-10, 08:09 AM

EBgames is listing the two newUBI upcoming games Assassins creed 2 and Splintercell conviction at 59.99,hmm high prices and DRM,one more reason not to buy any more Ubi games

Apos

02-04-10, 08:12 AM

They also can plug off the SHV server and force players to buy next SH product.

Kapitan_Phillips

02-04-10, 08:12 AM

EBgames is listing the two newUBI upcoming games Assassins creed 2 and Splintercell conviction at 59.99,hmm high prices and DRM,one more reason not to buy any more Ubi games

Then they wonder why their software gets pirated by people :-?

Ragtag

02-04-10, 09:11 AM

The all new 10 commandments for gamers :damn:

Brag

02-04-10, 09:13 AM

The Inquirer blasts Ubisoft
2K Games bends to customer demands to drop DRM

Ubisoft touts games drm - The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1589307/ubisoft-touts-games-drm)

Ubisoft has a history of badly implemented DRM solutions (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1589307/ubisoft-touts-games-drm#) and DRM methods deployed by publishers could potentially damage sales. Only this Monday 2K Games caved in to public pressure and said that it was scaling back DRM on its forthcoming Bioshock 2 release.

Ubisoft touts games drm - The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1589307/ubisoft-touts-games-drm)

See, protests do work

While DRM itself has its place, badly implemented DRM does more harm than good and this one from Ubisoft sounds like a shocker to the nth degree. It's not front page news that content providers want to protect their intellectual property but a viable solution seems to be in another postcode right now. The only thing we can say for sure is that for every new fangled snake-oil DRM platform hitting the market, there'll be a few sweaty pre-pubescent hackboys waiting to breach it and brag. µ

martes86

02-04-10, 09:18 AM

I totally agree. :DL

goldorak

02-04-10, 09:23 AM

They also can plug off the SHV server and force players to buy next SH product.

Don't be surprised, this is already standard operating procedure for EA and its various sports games. Even Activision with the Modern Warfare franchise is moving in that direction now that multiplayer has been forcefully taken back from gamers through the absense of dedicated server support.

Brag

02-04-10, 10:04 AM

Since this thread was merged, this new posting got shoved waaay back.

With apologies I'm reposting it here.

Who was it who said, A sucker is born every day?
Let’s look at Ubi’s OSP way of doing business transactions.
1.) You give them money
2.) They take it and they send you a DVD
3.) You are now a little bit poorer, Ubi made a bit of money
4.) You install game, register, connect to server and play
5.) Ubi spends money every time you log in to OSP
6.) The more you play, the more money UBI has to spend on you
7.) Ubi does not like spending money after they made a sale.
8.) Now they know your playing habits. Since you save your game on their server, this storage space not only costs Ubi more and more, but they also learn about your personality.
9.) Eventually comes the day when the say, we will no longer spend money to keep this sucker online.
10.) Good morning, sucker! Now you pay us if you want to keep playing.

That’s the 10 Step Program.
Not many suckers are falling for this scheme, but a few are.
Those complaining about the negativity in this forum, watch your wallets!
__________________