Would you pay $10 extra for no DRM? [Archive]

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TigerOmega

01-29-10, 08:07 PM

I know I would.

Antiacus

01-29-10, 08:08 PM

I'd pay an extra $25

I paid that much for Flight Sim X

theluckyone17

01-29-10, 08:16 PM

I'd hate doing it, since implementing DRM requires extra effort, and therefore should increase costs. However, if it means avoiding DRM... you betcha. Call it what you want: extortion, subsidizing pirates, whatever: but I'd pay it.

Nickolas

01-29-10, 08:18 PM

i would, but to be honest i chose not to buy (or at least wait) this game before i heven knew what DRM was being used. The DRM only confirmed my choice.

longam

01-29-10, 08:19 PM

I really don't want to pay for something I didn't want to begin with.

Thomen

01-29-10, 08:22 PM

No. :up:

Mikhayl

01-29-10, 08:25 PM

I really don't want to pay for something I didn't want to begin with.

Exactly this :hmph:

Letum

01-29-10, 08:28 PM

It's worth that much or more to me, but I wouldn't pay for it on principle and to avoid setting a precedent.

martes86

01-29-10, 08:44 PM

For the price SH3 & 4 were sold in Spain, I wouldn't mind an additional 10 bucks if they served a fair purpose. :DL

mookiemookie

01-29-10, 08:49 PM

Hell no. I'm not paying a ransom.

frau kaleun

01-29-10, 09:55 PM

Nope.

FIREWALL

01-29-10, 10:09 PM

While I only paid at a GameStop store $29.99 for FSX with Acceleration.

Yes I would pay the extra 10 bucks.

I feel a good Sim should go for $80.00 anyways.

I've seen XBOX and PS3 games going for CLOSE to that.

If you can't afford the Hardware and Software for this hobby, Go play with dolls and pretend you have a Hitech Sim.

longam

01-29-10, 10:15 PM

Carotio

01-29-10, 10:35 PM

I was at an auction the other day, helping some exchange students to buy themselves some used bikes, which are more convenient than public transportation. And we discussed the price, and how much they maximum should bid for the bikes. The situation or maybe quality of the bikes reminds me of this DRM issue. Some things are just not worth paying extra for. It's as simple as that. Playing SH5 would hurt as much as riding an old bike without a saddle... :o:-?:arrgh!::cry:

So no I would not pay extra. Especially not for chains and locks....

PaulH513

01-29-10, 10:37 PM

SH5 = $50
Without DRM + $10
Type II sub + $10
Type IX sub + $15
Type XXI sub + $15
war extends till 44 + $10
war extends till 45 + $10
stormy seas + $5
various soups + $5
reliable server for MP + $25
Lobsters = Market Price

* Prices subject to change

IanC

01-29-10, 10:40 PM

By principle, had to vote no. Shouldn't pay extra for something that shouldn't be there to begin with.

Lt commander lare

01-29-10, 10:43 PM

i would pay an extra 20 dollars if they removed the drm option and gave us an offline option but you need the internet to put the key code in and it has a special incryption so it knows that its connected only to my computer and that i was not pirating the game then i would pay the extra money

lt commander lare

Adriatico

01-29-10, 10:44 PM

If I buy something... want it to be mine, without limitations... no permanent seller's conditions... if it is +10$ just tell me straight forward.

JScones

01-29-10, 10:46 PM

No.

FIREWALL

01-29-10, 10:51 PM

With this mentality you'll lose.

You've shown them your too cheap no matter what they do.

Gabucino

01-30-10, 04:00 AM

No piracy here.

The Management

HundertzehnGustav

01-30-10, 04:24 AM

SH5 = 45
Without DRM + $10 (basic requirement, just plain common sense to me)
Type II sub + 8
Type IX sub + 25
Type XXI sub + 0 (no interest)
war extends till 45 + 5
stormy seas + 0 (basic stuff!)
various soups + 5
reliable server for MP + 0
AI units using Torpedoes +25
Printed Recognition Manual + 3
Hardcore settings with

complex sinking mechanics,
no life bars,
no red triangle
misc other settings

extra + 5
Keep the Game developpers on board to Help in support of their own product/creation (another year of anwering questions and developping modding tools) + 10

Total i would pay for SHV = 141 Euroes.

and an extra 10 balls to increase the Dev teams living conditions (more offduty time, increased pay, health insurance and whatnot)

151 then.

HundertzehnGustav

01-30-10, 04:27 AM

Gabuchino, you just said you would help crackers, or support them.
you are swimmming with the sharks... act now and edit that crap!

GREY WOLF 3

01-30-10, 04:29 AM

Shouldn't pay extra for something that shouldn't be there to begin with. :down::down:

Dowly

01-30-10, 05:10 AM

Hell no. :shifty:

V.C. Sniper

01-30-10, 05:35 AM

no.

goldorak

01-30-10, 05:41 AM

I really don't want to pay for something I didn't want to begin with.

Listen to the man. ^^^^ :D

goldorak

01-30-10, 05:46 AM

I feel a good Sim should go for $80.00 anyways.

I've seen XBOX and PS3 games going for CLOSE to that.

If you can't afford the Hardware and Software for this hobby, Go play with dolls and pretend you have a Hitech Sim.

First point :Console games cost more because publishers HAVE TO PAY a certain amount of money to the console manufacturers to have the game published. No such cost is necessary on a pc. Its the greatness of publishing on an open platform.

Second point : for 80 $ I want a gigantic box, with a 300 page manual that decribes not only the how to use the sim, but also the tactics used. I want maps, and features, lots of features in the game itself (dynamic campaign, multiplayer on the internet and lan, possibilty to host an ongoing campaign in multiplayer etc..). Throw everything and the kitchen sink in.
Anything less would be unacceptable.

Oh and no phone home system.

Uber Gruber

01-30-10, 05:54 AM

That's just like saying

"Will you pay for us not to break yer legs?"

Kapitan_Phillips

01-30-10, 06:13 AM

No, neither would I pay an extra $10 for someone to spit on my cheeseburger.

Kefru

01-30-10, 06:24 AM

The hackers will get it for $0 and no DRM, while the people who actually purchase it will be treated as criminals with a highly restrictive DRM. :wah:

Remember that Ubi tried to say that the absence of 1944/5 and only one type of boat was a feature, as if lack of content could ever be a feature, but in this case removing the DRM might work.

bigboywooly

01-30-10, 06:33 AM

I wouldnt pay to have the DRM/OSP removed

However IF the game had been 10£$ dearer without DRM/OSP in the first place I would have happily paid it

There's a difference there

subvers4

01-30-10, 10:30 AM

I wouldnt pay to have the DRM/OSP removed

However IF the game had been 10£$ dearer without DRM/OSP in the first place I would have happily paid it

There's a difference there

100 % with bbw here :up:

VonHesse

01-30-10, 11:18 AM

I wouldnt pay to have the DRM/OSP removed

However IF the game had been 10£$ dearer without DRM/OSP in the first place I would have happily paid it

There's a difference there

Yup, that.

To pay ANY money to have it removed now would be extortion and "bait and switch", and I couldn't support that on the principal of it.:nope:

If, however, they needed to charge more in the future to increase their profit margin, through honest customers, to negate the influence of pirates, then that would be acceptable.

At this late date, paying to have DRM/OSP removed would be like paying the Mafia "protection money" to ensure that the same Mafia wouldn't send it's goons to your place of business to trash the joint...

Unacceptable.:down:

tater

01-30-10, 11:52 AM

Yes, I would. So would---and do---all of you already.

Prices need to be set to cover expenses, and make profit. Short of this no new games get made. Piracy mitigation is a cost to the publisher, and there are opportunity costs implied with NOT mitigating piracy (lost sales).

The price of the product SHOULD reflect this. If games need to be $100 because of piracy, so be it, I'll happily pony up what is required for a game I like.

Look at professional software packages like Photoshop. They have the same piracy issues. Those of us with legit copies pay a premium. That's one business model, another is to charge so little that piracy is not worth the trouble. Clearly that is not a model pursued by larger companies, so it must not be viable---though the iPhone app market might be proof that it does work for programs with low dev costs anyway.

KL-alfman

01-30-10, 12:07 PM

Look at professional software packages like Photoshop. They have the same piracy issues. Those of us with legit copies pay a premium. That's one business model, another is to charge so little that piracy is not worth the trouble.

and there is a third:
open source software
GPL - GNU
there's a lot of good and even better than the "expansive" professional software programmes out there. and there are even companies which do the distribution and have successful business-models

Rosencrantz

01-30-10, 12:11 PM

No, I would not.

It would be like I should pay extra money for McDonald's so I could take my hamburger with me...

-RC-

tater

01-30-10, 12:15 PM

No, I would not.

It would be like I should pay extra money for McDonald's so I could take my hamburger with me...

-RC-

You DO. Any software you buy without DRM has the associated losses to piracy built into the price. Nothing is free. Nothing. Someone pays, or it doesn't happen.

Open source? How on Earth to the devs feed their kids under that model? I'm serious, enlighten me. I'm not a shill for this OSP crap in case you haven't been reading my posts, BTW. I'm not buying because of the possible limitations to me playing (assuming there is ever a fleet boat version since I don't do u-boats).

TH0R

01-30-10, 12:32 PM

Yes.

KL-alfman

01-30-10, 12:34 PM

Iron Budokan

01-30-10, 01:48 PM

I shouldn't have to pay extra money just to protect myself from being punked by UBI.

That's like giving the neighborhood bully your lunch money. "Here's my milk money, just don't hurt me."

Webster

01-30-10, 01:55 PM

You DO. Any software you buy without DRM has the associated losses to piracy built into the price. Nothing is free. Nothing. Someone pays, or it doesn't happen.

i dont know if i would agree with that, i think its the investment in game developement or lack there of thats effected by piracy not the price.

game companies charge THE most they can force customers to pay them even if there was NO piracy but they definately would or might be able to spend those extra profits gained from not having piracy to make better games by hiring more devs and giving larger budgets to the builders.

Sailor Steve

01-30-10, 02:39 PM

Nein

goldorak

01-30-10, 02:41 PM

You DO. Any software you buy without DRM has the associated losses to piracy built into the price. Nothing is free. Nothing. Someone pays, or it doesn't happen.

Open source? How on Earth to the devs feed their kids under that model? I'm serious, enlighten me. I'm not a shill for this OSP crap in case you haven't been reading my posts, BTW. I'm not buying because of the possible limitations to me playing (assuming there is ever a fleet boat version since I don't do u-boats).

Many people make a living by developing open source software. The point is that open source in commercial game development just doesn't work. So you will never see a Falcon 5 or SH 10 etc.... open source.
On the other hand, simulators developed in the free time by people that share a common passion can be viable. You just have to refocus your expectations. Now before you go on saying that open source games are "s h i t" , or cannot compete with commercial offerings you're wrong. And you're wrong because commercial offerings have to cater to the larger market (why do thing that SH 5 has all those "arcade" like settings in the first place ? ) whereas the community developed sims no.

Take for instance Orbiter, its a space simulator (way way better and more complex than the only other commerical sim Microsoft Space Simulator 1994/1995), it was developed by one man over the course of several years and he had the insight to make the core of the sim "closed source" but he gave to the community a great SDK and API with which to develop add-ons. The community is way way less numerous than that of subsim members, and yet if you look at the quality of several add-ons well they are commercial quality. And all of them are freeware and most are also open source. It works because the man found its audience. He develops in his free time, its a hobby of his (his main job is being a professor....) and the add-on developers do it in their free time too.
And with all this being a hobby, the quality and scope of the project is just mind boggling. I can tell you that if a commercial space sim should ever see the light of day they are going to have one hell of a time surpassing the hardcore Orbiter.

In the field of flight simulators, you have Flight Gear. This one is 100% open source. Everything from models, to textures etc... It has been in development for more than 10 years I think and its pretty good. Of course compared to FS 2004/ Fs X its way way back but can you play Fs X on linux ? No. Can you modify the inner working of the sim because you want to improve it ? No.

In the field of subsims, there is a WWII subsim called Danger of the Deep. Its open source and the graphics have nothing to envy to SH3/4. The pace of development is slow because there isn't a lot of manpower available. I can tell you this, if all the guys that focused on GWX 3 should focus on bringing and devloping content for Danger of the Deep, well in a 3-4 years we could have a real product competing with SH 3/4/5. And with nothing of the restrictions of DRM/modding and what else. The bonus thing is that you could run it everywhere, windows, mac, linux etc.... It wouldn't have a dynamic campaign but even so the game we could have an extremely complete mission editor and multiplayer and whatever else the communioty comes up with.

I'm always astounded how a small, very small community like that of Orbiter has achieved an outstanding simulator, and yet more mainstream simulators like WW 2 subsims with an enormous community and talented modders and/or developers just don't have the same kind of "passion" for developing or contributing to an open source WW2 subsim.

TigerOmega

01-30-10, 09:48 PM

I bought a new car.....Want bucket seats? Nope...Are you sure? Yep...What about DRM? Is it standard? Yep..Can I pay to have it not installed? Nope. Sorry I don't want it..Sorry NO SALE.

tater

01-30-10, 11:39 PM

i dont know if i would agree with that, i think its the investment in game developement or lack there of thats effected by piracy not the price.

game companies charge THE most they can force customers to pay them even if there was NO piracy but they definately would or might be able to spend those extra profits gained from not having piracy to make better games by hiring more devs and giving larger budgets to the builders.

If they charge less that it cost rto make, they go tits up.

They are a business, they can afford to lose some of the time, game dev and release is a gamble sort of like movies. Overall, however, they either make money or they tank.

They SHOULD charge what the market will bear, IMO. It's their duty to make the most money possible for their investors, andf the gravy for us is that it allows them to gamble on less popular titles---like submarines.

I'm always stunned by anyone who thinks these games, or even add-ons are some sort of money-grubbing rip off. Games have been pretty flat at ~$50 for ages. What a deal!

Webster

01-30-10, 11:46 PM

Feuer Frei!

01-31-10, 12:46 AM

Yup, i would......

errr, pay the extra money....

tater

01-31-10, 01:40 AM

my point was you seamed to imply they would lower prices if piracy was stopped and im saying there is no way the would lower prices no matter what for the very reasons you just brought up.

but if they had more profits they might invest more into the games they produce

Games are already cheap entertainment, I see no reason to decrease the cost unless they can move enough more units.

Task Force

01-31-10, 01:50 AM

No, why would I pay for a watered down version of 3...

Sgtmonkeynads

01-31-10, 02:00 AM

No, why would I pay for a watered down version of 3...
Understatement of the year.
It makes me think their pulling a Dragon age:origins strategy.
Release game one day, release DLC that could have been in the game originaly the next, and then an expansion ( which is just as big as the original game, therefore must have already been done at the time of release) the next month. All yours for the price of the original game, thus doubleing their profit if you want the "entire" experience.

kptn_kaiserhof

01-31-10, 12:03 PM

======>>> +1

artao

01-31-10, 12:36 PM

@ goldorak -- re: Orbiter .... GREAT fricken sim!! Love it!! of course, it could do with better damage dynamics (I've re-enterd the DG IV upside-down and not burned up many a time), but you're absolutely right about the quality of the add-ons. Simply astounding!
Also, thanks for bringing to my awareness Flight Gear and Danger from the Deep ... with the quality of modders here, I'd think we could put together a kick-ass sim with commercial viability, at least within our niche community, plus it would have everything we all want. hmmmm ...
:yeah: :hmmm:

artao

01-31-10, 12:40 PM

... oh, and HELL NO I won't pay even an extra $0.25 for a game that should already be without DRM ... that's just extortion, plain and simple ...

Rosencrantz

01-31-10, 12:49 PM

Tater wrote:

You DO. Any software you buy without DRM has the associated losses to piracy built into the price. Nothing is free. Nothing. Someone pays, or it doesn't happen.

Open source? How on Earth to the devs feed their kids under that model? I'm serious, enlighten me. I'm not a shill for this OSP crap in case you haven't been reading my posts, BTW. I'm not buying because of the possible limitations to me playing (assuming there is ever a fleet boat version since I don't do u-boats).

Hello Tater!

Sorry, but I wasn't talking about having something free, or was I? The question was about extra money, wasn't it? Here in Finland one meal in McD's cost about 6,50 euros. I would not mind pay 10 euros just for that I could eat the very same meal at home. To me UBI's planned DRM model is just the same...

Greetings,
-RC-

Brag

01-31-10, 01:08 PM

Why should I pay for not having something I don't want!

Mafia Guy "Give me your money, or I'll instal DRM in your computer,"

:D

Dieselglock

01-31-10, 05:29 PM

I would

Nickolas

01-31-10, 05:32 PM

Why should I pay for not having something I don't want!

Mafia Guy "Give me your money, or I'll instal DRM in your computer,"

:D

because its a double negatory. paying NOT to have something you do NOT want is the same as paying to have something you want :rotfl2:.

jerm138

01-31-10, 05:55 PM

That's a loaded question, so I won't answer it.

If I say "No," I could be sending the message that I'm willing to live with the DRM.

If I say "yes," I'm sending a message that I agree with this shenanigans.

Car Dealer: So, you all ready to get into your new car?
Customer: Absolutely!
Car Dealer: Okay then! Let's just fill out the papers... oh... there's one more thing I forgot to offer you...
Customer: Oh? What's that?
Car Dealer: Well, when we came into the office, I asked one of my co-workers to go defecate on your seat and flatten your tires.
Customer: :o
Car Dealer: But, have I got a deal for you!! :D For an extra $200, I'll call him up right now and tell him to leave it alone.
Customer: :stare:

Brag

01-31-10, 06:07 PM

because its a double negatory. paying NOT to have something you do NOT want is the same as paying to have something you want :rotfl2:.

I'm a notwanting notwanter :D

Nisgeis

01-31-10, 06:10 PM

I'm a notwanting notwanter :D

I wouldn't be telling the truth if I didn't say I wasn't disappointed in that response.

jerm138

01-31-10, 06:12 PM

I wouldn't be telling the truth if I didn't say I wasn't disappointed in that response.

You just blew a fuse in my head.

TarJak

01-31-10, 08:20 PM

Nup. Not in this lifetime.

Bubblehead1980

01-31-10, 08:35 PM

yes, its just 10 dollars, tack it on instead of having DRM, absolutely.

tater

02-01-10, 11:26 AM

Hello Tater!

Sorry, but I wasn't talking about having something free, or was I? The question was about extra money, wasn't it? Here in Finland one meal in McD's cost about 6,50 euros. I would not mind pay 10 euros just for that I could eat the very same meal at home. To me UBI's planned DRM model is just the same...

Greetings,
-RC-

I meant in general nothing is free, and whatever something costs, it reflect the cost-structure required to produce and sell it at some level.

A non-DRM version entirely defeats the purpose of DRM since it is (presumably) easier to crack. So paying an extra $10 for a second, non-DRM version is fantasy.

Instead, if the OSP scheme actually worked, then they'd have to figure out the difference in revenues with not having OSp, then sell SH5 for as much more as it would take to make the same amount of money. That might be $10, it might be less (hence selling more units), it might have to cost $200, who knows.

Zoomer96

02-01-10, 02:29 PM

Yeah, I got $10 bucks toward that.

Jades

02-01-10, 03:53 PM

Pay an extra £10 (because you know that's what it'll be in Rip-Off Britain) for no DRM? Not a chance in hell. I think games are overpriced already without having to pay extra money to not get mugged.

As for paying more to get the feature set of a game I bought five years ago for less money?[1]
If you think /that's/ a good idea then I have a Prime Minister for you to pre-order. [2]

Small print:-

1. In real terms.

2. Anticipated release date 7th May 2010. No refunds.

BulSoldier

02-01-10, 04:08 PM

I was thinking (few days ago) that i am willing (if i were to buy the game) to pay a bit more to get rid of this but now i am willing to pay double just to burn one infront of my eyes.
Yeah its a bit negative but all the news around the game reallllllly disapointed me.