Are We Cattle? [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Brag

01-29-10, 03:27 PM

Businesses are created to satisfy needs, A businessman sees what people want, manufactures a product and sells it a fair price. In modern times, some companies have tried to influence trends to woo clients to their products and advertize the benefit these products.

You all know that.

It is a matter of mutual respect and trust.

If Ubi had respect for its customers, they would have consulted us or other gamers, explained the benefits, gaged the attitudes and decided to go ahead or not.

Instead:

They trotted out their PR guy who read out a Diktat as if we were a bunch of Zeks (Gulag inmates). The twit didn't even bother to come up with don't worry be happy platitudes.

Now, they expect us to line up like obedient cattle and buy their DRM/OSP bugged game.

Are we cattle?

Moo, moo, moo, moo, moo. Yeah, a herd of charging bulls :D:D:D

HundertzehnGustav

01-29-10, 03:31 PM

Yeah, a herd of charging bulls :D:D:D

Dude i like that!

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/07/09/nytfrontpage/24018440.JPG

But... who is who in the picture? we will have to wait and see.:arrgh!:

Letum

01-29-10, 03:34 PM

Haha!
You drama queen you!

trenken

01-29-10, 03:36 PM

Task Force

01-29-10, 03:37 PM

yea, we are cattle... MOOOOOO!!!

FIREWALL

01-29-10, 03:39 PM

Well put Brag :up:

Consumers need to take back control.

onelifecrisis

01-29-10, 03:46 PM

Another rah rah speech, Brag? How many is that for you today? :yawn:

Maybe save it for just before release. You wouldn't want your herd of charging bulls to peak too early.

Brag

01-29-10, 03:54 PM

Please list the games that you've played that use DRM. Because I sure hope you have experience with it before you went complaining about it, like everyone else here that has never played a DRM game.

I've played 4, 2 are single player only, not 1 bad experience.

Do you really want to know? Zero.
The beef is, no stinking body is going to tell me to log in so I can play alone. I like the SH series, that's why I want Ubi to remove their bugging.
So I'm not buying until they do, So, moooo .:salute:

AVGWarhawk

01-29-10, 03:56 PM

Moo...

sergei

01-29-10, 03:58 PM

Please list the games that you've played that use DRM.

Only two.

Fallout 3 and Empire Total War.

Neither of which insisted on a permanent internet connection for me to play.

SteamWake

01-29-10, 03:58 PM

me moo too :haha:

Highbury

01-29-10, 04:34 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Needs-moar-drama.jpg

theluckyone17

01-29-10, 08:14 PM

Please list the games that you've played that use DRM.
I'll bite. My list, compiled from http://forum.daemon-tools.cc/gamedb.php?letter=Z:
American McGeeґs Alice
Avatar - The Game
Battlecruiser Millenium Gold Edition
Crysis
DCS Black Shark
Deus Ex: Invisible War
Diablo
Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Enigma: Rising Tide
F.E.A.R.
Fable - The Lost Chapters
Fallout
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
FlatOut Ultimate Carnage
Gears of War
Half-Life 2
Hidden & Dangerous 2
Icewind Dale
IL-2 Sturmovik
IL2-Sturmovik: The Forgotten Battles
Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault
Nascar Racing 2002 Season
Nascar Racing 4
Neverwinter Nights
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide
Pacific Fighters
Silent Hunter 3
Silent Hunter 4
The Sims
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Total Annihilation: Kingdoms
Unreal Tournament
Warcraft III
X2 The Threat
X3 Reunion
X-Plane 8
X-Plane 9

I've rarely had a problem. I scratched a disk for X-Plane 8, gave me a reason to buy X-Plane 9. Couldn't install the U-boat missions (patch 1.5) for SH4, but an email resolved the issue within a day... I was irritated, but I survived.

The rest? Not a problem. Most are either plain disk checks or one time authorizations on the 'net. I don't worry about disk checks: When I started computing, I had all my games stored on floppies (I'm 29, been using PCs for 25. We didn't have hard drives back then, not in a residential setting). Swapping a disk isn't going to bother me.

Same goes for one time authorizations. Odds are, I'll be connected when I install (not when I want to play, just when I install). Not a big deal.

Some of those games listed above have install limitations... realistically, I'm not going to hit the limit. When I have (SH4 Uboat Missions or Windows installations), a simple email or phone call resolves the issue. Life goes on, and I'm happy.

Chaining me to a server? Ain't going to happen. There's a line, and OSP crossed it.

Ducimus

01-29-10, 08:22 PM

Are we cattle?

When it comes to this crowd.......
yes.

mookiemookie

01-29-10, 08:56 PM

Chaining me to a server? Ain't going to happen. There's a line, and OSP crossed it.

He doesn't get the difference between DRM and OSP. People are fine with registration keys. people are even fine with games connecting at startup for authentication, like Steam. But people are NOT fine with being constantly tethered.

He makes us out to be the technological Neanderthals, railing against the rising tide. If we're railing, we're not alone. Just look at any of the comments from any of the news sources that carried the news of Ubi doing this on all of their games...Digg, reddit, et.al. Almost every single comment is negative.

Vanagen

01-29-10, 09:25 PM

Okay, we get it, you don't like DRM.

No one likes DRM, not even the developers. Not even the publishers. It costs lots of money, it's a pain to implement and it's marginally effective at best.

But it's a necessary evil.

Even if it doesn't make a lick of difference in the grand scheme of piracy, it's just unthinkable for a triple-A game from a major developer to ship without any kind of copy protection.

Why DRM?

Because of the one group of people Ubisoft cares more about than its customers.

The people who own these:

http://www.google.com/finance?q=EPA%3AUBI

Businesses are created to satisfy needsNo, businesses are created to generate profit.

Satisfying customers is only a means to an end.

To satisfy shareholders.

For extra e-pedant points, allow me to directly quote Wikipedia:

A business (also called a company, enterprise or firm) is a legally recognized organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization) designed to provide goods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_%28economics_and_accounting%29) and/or services (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_%28economics%29) to consumers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business#cite_note-0) Businesses are predominant in capitalist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism) economies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy), most being privately owned (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property) and formed to earn profit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_%28economics%29) that will increase the wealth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth) of its owners and grow the business itself.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business ] - Wikipedia

Be thankful that it isn't StarForceLargeUncomfortableObjectsUpYourPooper DRM that breaks random hardware on your PC, but an online play system, which will be common practise in ALL games a few years from now and is already used in every single MMO imaginable since bloody Ultima Online (and earlier).

As for people who don't have stable 24/7 broadband? It bloody well sucks. It really does. I feel for them. Honest. I sincerely hope that their local telecom company smartens up and builds the infrastructure required or that they move to a place where they can indeed get an internet connection.

Still, yeah, it sucks; there's no other words for it.

You know what sucks even more?

Haiti.

Now can we please, please focus on the quality of the actual game?

DRM issues will eventually be resolved.

A fundamentally flawed game is what worries me most. That is something all the modding in the world won't be able to solve.

When all is said and done, nothing stops you from buying a legit copy to support the developers and playing with a cracked version.

It isn't like most of us don't play our games with a NoCD patch, including SH3.

Thomen

01-29-10, 09:47 PM

Be thankful that it isn't StarForceLargeUncomfortableObjectsUpYourPooper DRM that breaks random hardware on your PC, but an online play system, which will be common practise in ALL games a few years from now and is already used in every single MMO imaginable since bloody Ultima Online (and earlier).

As for people who don't have stable 24/7 broadband? It bloody well sucks. It really does. I feel for them. Honest. I sincerely hope that their local telecom company smartens up and builds the infrastructure required or that they move to a place where they can indeed get an internet connection.

Trenken...? Is that you? :06:

Please, don't confuse requirements for a MMO (guess what that name means, eh?) with a single player game that is played on your own machine, all by your self.

You know what sucks even more?

Haiti.

Now can we please, please focus on the quality of the actual game?

DRM issues will eventually be resolved.

A fundamentally flawed game is what worries me most. That's something all the modding in the world can't solve.

Well, I guess we can agree to that..

When all is said and done, nothing stops you from buying a legit copy to support the developers and playing with a cracked version. It's not like most of us don't play our games with a NoCD patch, including SH3.

Are you sure you played SH3 lately? Never needed a CD or patch to play it.. :hmmm:
Just wondering..

theluckyone17

01-29-10, 09:48 PM

He doesn't get the difference between DRM and OSP. People are fine with registration keys. people are even fine with games connecting at startup for authentication, like Steam. But people are NOT fine with being constantly tethered.

That's exactly what I was trying to point out to him. DRM doesn't make me happy, but I'll deal with it. That list ought to be proof enough for anybody. When DRM comes in the form of OSP, then I'm not going to deal with it. Simple as that.

IanC

01-29-10, 11:32 PM

Moo you *$#@%\

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7967/73515482.jpg

Méo

01-29-10, 11:55 PM

When it comes to this crowd.......
yes.

And about PTO crowd, are they cattle too ?

UrPeaceKeeper

01-30-10, 12:55 AM

Moo you *$#@%\

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7967/73515482.jpg

Utterly amazing :yeah:

:arrgh!:

FIREWALL

01-30-10, 12:59 AM

And about PTO crowd, are they cattle too ?

I think the PTO crowd is the MOOST. :DL :up:

Let's all stick together or, we will all hang seperately.

oscar19681

01-30-10, 01:08 AM

perhaps we are inneed!

zulus

01-30-10, 04:01 AM

Brag. Yeah I'm a cattle these last few days, but it's just a flowers and you already know who is responsible for it right ? You said: " A businessman sees what people want" Let me guess I think you're talking about UBI and their customers ? If so maybe you would like to think about how many customers wants to have DRM trojan in their PCs ?

Dowly

01-30-10, 05:10 AM

Moo. :hmmm:

Uber Gruber

01-30-10, 05:52 AM

Satisfying customers is only a means to an end.

To satisfy shareholders.This is the current reality...but, as you say, customers ARE the means to the end. Without customers then the shareholders will be largely unsatisfied. As customers, we encourage businesses to make a healthy profit...but surely not when that profit is at the expense of a slow erosion in social capital? Likewise, profit should never be acquired at the expense of the slow erosion of customer base.

So, as the OP highlighted, the ending of this little sorry story will be decided by the customers, not the shareholders. That is our only leverage. Use it by not buying the game. Or lose it by following the heard.

Be a FREE MAN.....or be shafted., the choice is yours...:|\\