What would have happened in this situation in real life?

[cawimmer430]

Something interesting happened in my last patrol.

It's mid 1941 in my game and I have a type IX submarine. For the fun of it, I ventured towards New York.

Well, at the entrance to New York, I come across a C2 cargo ship with the Union Jack: British. At the same time, there is an American Somers destroyer patrolling the area. All three ships, my IX, the C2 and the Somers destroyer are within visible range of each other.

The weather was great, so I had my deck gun manned and proceeded to get close to the C2 cargo ship in order to sink it. I sunk it myself out of fear that my deck gun crew, being trigger happy, would attack the Somers destroyer once the C2 had been sunk.

Anyway, the C2 went down but the Somers destroyer did nothing. Didn't attack me - as expected - since the US is still neutral.


My question is, what would have happened in real life here? Would the Somers destroyer have attacked me since technically I was inside the 3 km shore zone of the USA attacking a foreign vessel on their "ocean" if you will :hmmm:.

[GoldenRivet]

In real life, the American DD would have probably positioned itself between you and the C2 and called for reinforcement.

Eventually, i would Imagine that your sub would be pursued and possibly boarded / interned in the very least for attacking a ship in Neutral American waters.

[Hitman]

In real life?

I guess a Ritterkreuz and a meeting with the Führer at the Wolfschanze for having the balls to do something like that :haha:

[Frank0001]

Hitler wouldn't be too pleased, since he specifically ordered NOT to interfere with the Americans or piss them off, to avoid them joining the war (and look how well that ended!)

[GoldenRivet]

Hitler wouldn't be too pleased, since he specifically ordered NOT to interfere with the Americans or piss them off, to avoid them joining the war (and look how well that ended!)

Yes and in addendum to my previous post, there are reports of American DDs placing themselves in the line of fire between U-boats and british merchant ships.

i feel like this would be the most likley scenario.

[floundericiousWA]

Hitler wouldn't be too pleased, since he specifically ordered NOT to interfere with the Americans or piss them off, to avoid them joining the war (and look how well that ended!)

In real life, the American DD would have probably positioned itself between you and the C2 and called for reinforcement.

Eventually, i would Imagine that your sub would be pursued and possibly boarded / interned in the very least for attacking a ship in Neutral American waters.


There's your answer, I think they've encircled the question, illuminated it, and shot it to death, so to speak! :yeah:

[Red Heat]

Thats why i love this game so much...in every patrol all aways something happened...but remember keep you alive to tell your story later...in Officers Quarters drinking a beer with your crew! :yeah:

[johan_d]

You would end in a camp, either German or US.

[Lt.Fillipidis]

I also believe that the DD would block you.
But i have another question. What would happen if the commander would board the cargo (outside the 3km shore limit), order the crew to abandon and then sink it and all this being observed by the same DD.

[FIREWALL]

Is the C2 scored as a neutral if sunk, And a Renoun loss ?

I'm assumeing this is GWX.

[bigboywooly]

Well as all 3 of you are in the Pan-American security zone chances are the DD may have acted aggresively - definately if he was escorting the cargo ship
Certainly it would have radio'd in plain language your position to all listening

[KL-alfman]

Hitler wouldn't be too pleased, since he specifically ordered NOT to interfere with the Americans or piss them off, to avoid them joining the war (and look how well that ended!)


you are probably right up to the point where I've read in Albert Speer's diaries, that the "Führer" was underestimating the US a lot.
direct quote (analogously and pls, apologize the words!!): "they are just a bunch of jews and nixxers over there, they never compete with our supreme arian race"

I'm just too happy it proved wrong.

[FIREWALL]

Well as all 3 of you are in the Pan-American security zone chances are the DD may have acted aggresively - definately if he was escorting the cargo ship
Certainly it would have radio'd in plain language your position to all listening

In game or RL ? Or both ?

[bigboywooly]

In game or RL ? Or both ?

In RL
Sometimes in game I have sunk a Br cargo under the nose of a US ship without interference
Other times the US DD will become aggesive and look to take me out

I guess depends on whether you have hit or sunk a US flagged vessel while sailing off the US coast
If so it will defo be interested in having a go at you

[Jimbuna]

The DD (in RL) would probably attack as a means of self defence....especially if you fired at the merchant.

In a gameing sense and as already pointed out....the 24hour aggressor rule would apply.

[FIREWALL]

Maybe I should ask this.

In GWX

It's mid 1941

I'm off US east coast in American waters off New York.

I sink a Brit C2

Do's it show green (neutral) and do I get a renoun hit ?

edit: Green on the map.

[ryanglavin]

Do's it show green (neutral) and do I get a renoun hit ?[/QUOTE]

You should get a renown hit, i wouldn't know why you wouldn't. The game would count renown kills on what flag it flies, not where it is. But the americans might get a little mad at you.

[Lt.Fillipidis]

you are probably right up to the point where I've read in Albert Speer's diaries, that the "Führer" was underestimating the US a lot.
direct quote (analogously and pls, apologize the words!!): "they are just a bunch of jews and nixxers over there, they never compete with our supreme arian race"

I'm just too happy it proved wrong.

He was half wrong actually. USA owns a great deal to the French resistance and the British intelligence for its operations in Europe. The Germans were a whole new enemy for the Americans to fight compared to the Japanesse. More organized, disciplined and experienced. And USA was still using Paratroopers in battles which costed a lot of lives. Something that no country could afford after so many years of fighting. Plus, in my opinion, the German war machine was supreme. It was the combination of bad allies and wrong moves that turned the tide of war.

[psykopatsak]

now that as it may be - it was most likely not because the germans were aryan...:know:

[FIREWALL]

Do's it show green (neutral) and do I get a renoun hit ?

You should get a renown hit, i wouldn't know why you wouldn't. The game would count renown kills on what flag it flies, not where it is. But the americans might get a little mad at you.[/QUOTE]

Why ? It's a Brit ship and were at war with the Brits.

Or is it an unfixable game problem ?

[bigboywooly]

Maybe I should ask this.

In GWX

It's mid 1941

I'm off US east coast in American waters off New York.

I sink a Brit C2

Do's it show green (neutral) and do I get a renoun hit ?

edit: Green on the map.

No it shows as red and you GET renown
Why green ? Br is at war
Doesnt matter where in the world
You can sail into new york 4th Sept 39 and sink a brit and shows as red

Location means nothing
If they are at war then they are at war

[KL-alfman]

He was half wrong actually. USA owns a great deal to the French resistance and the British intelligence for its operations in Europe. The Germans were a whole new enemy for the Americans to fight compared to the Japanesse. More organized, disciplined and experienced. And USA was still using Paratroopers in battles which costed a lot of lives. Something that no country could afford after so many years of fighting. Plus, in my opinion, the German war machine was supreme. It was the combination of bad allies and wrong moves that turned the tide of war.


I can follow up to the point where you say the USA have to be grateful to their european allies (resistance and GB), but no one ever should challenge the USA or under-estimate them. and this is what the "Reich" did, without any need. of course they supported GB from the start but to drag them into the European war-theater is just sooo stupid.
btw, glad they did. no one would like to live under Nazi-governments. :03:

[Patkins1983]

The resistance in occupied Europe was a real help, I read in a book how a French resistance fighter walked onto an SS Panzer training Barracks to case the place.

He uses fake papers to blag the Germans and is allowed to roam free, and gives the RAF lots information.

The RAF pasted the place on the eve of passing out, causing some nasty damage and casualties.

Thats one hell of plan.

I hope someone bought him a drink or two.

[Jimbuna]

Maybe I should ask this.

In GWX

It's mid 1941

I'm off US east coast in American waters off New York.

I sink a Brit C2

Do's it show green (neutral) and do I get a renoun hit ?

edit: Green on the map.

Stick my contact colour mod in ....just to be sure :DL

[cawimmer430]

Thanks for the great info and responses. :DL

[Kimmers]

now that as it may be - it was most likely not because the germans were aryan...:know:

:rotfl2::rotfl2: