why do you blame ubi? cause they dont offer YOUR product? [Archive]

Jaeger

01-29-10, 11:59 AM

indeed, THATS the prob: we need a second company selling subsims. and because there isnt a second one atm, i hope ubi will sell as much copies as they can for tons of new DLC, Addons and perhaps a sh6. an arcade sub game (modable) is better than nothing. the community will bring in the realism with the help of the devs tools and modability of the stock game.

when more or less bugfree, i see a good perspective... but what i really cant read anymore is the anti ubi garbage. But Mikhayl is right, here, we should stop the discussion now. it is enough.

NGT

01-29-10, 12:04 PM

..................................................

If ATIand Nvidia wanted you to connect to the net in order to get antialiasing, what would you say?

:yeah:

Salutations de Itzig....:up:

IanC

01-29-10, 12:13 PM

Gosh.. do we really need to explain why DRM is a bad idea. C'mon...

tater

01-29-10, 02:42 PM

Interesting that virtually all the no holds barred OSP supporters have vanishingly small post counts.

HundertzehnGustav

01-29-10, 02:44 PM

:yeah:

Salutations de Itzig....:up:

Yo, NGT, Salutations de Lintgen, Coeur du Pays!:D

JU_88

01-29-10, 03:09 PM

If ATIand Nvidia wanted you to connect to the net in order to get antialiasing, what would you say?

+1
That is the most awesome thing I have read today :haha::haha: :up:

Webster

01-29-10, 03:18 PM

Interesting that virtually all the no holds barred OSP supporters have vanishingly small post counts.

companies dont hire people to open up forum accounts to promote and pump their products do they? :O:

GlobalExplorer

01-29-10, 03:20 PM

pointless thread

Kapitan_Phillips

01-29-10, 03:22 PM

But you can have Nvidia.

WE, WWII subsimmers, DONT have such a choice.
Eiteher Ubi or Nothing.

I have the same view about EA's monopoly with the NFL

HundertzehnGustav

01-29-10, 03:24 PM

We need some mor Subsim producers... Monopoly Sux to teh Bonez.

JScones

01-29-10, 06:34 PM

next week, i will start a public campaign against ati: i dont like their new grafic boards and i dont like their marketing policy...
Go for it. Good luck. Tell us how it goes. :up:

Mud

01-29-10, 06:44 PM

next week, i will start a public campaign against ati: i dont like their new grafic boards and i dont like their marketing policy...

I hope you are not have a dial up conn to keep your long campaign running.

Cheers,

Mud

Jaeger

01-29-10, 08:38 PM

Interesting that virtually all the no holds barred OSP supporters have vanishingly small post counts.

can you explain this?

Jaeger

01-29-10, 08:41 PM

I hope you are not have a dial up conn to keep your long campaign running.

Cheers,

Mud

please dont mix online play and single play with online save. drm means savings will be stored on ubi servers, nothing else. i think it would be like sending an email: you load up your save game after playing thats all.

Thomen

01-29-10, 08:46 PM

please dont mix online play and single play with online save. drm means savings will be stored on ubi servers, nothing else. i think it would be like sending an email: you load up your save game after playing thats all.

OSP requires a constant connection. It just not only saves your games, it also checks if you are there the whole time, too.

martes86

01-29-10, 08:48 PM

Interesting that virtually all the no holds barred OSP supporters have vanishingly small post counts.

What surprises me is the apparently increasing amount of people that defend the new system while telling everyone else to shut up and suck it up. Ignorance of its effects? Or some hidden campaign?

Conspiracy day! :rotfl2:

John W. Hamm

01-29-10, 08:48 PM

please dont mix online play and single play with online save. drm means savings will be stored on ubi servers, nothing else. i think it would be like sending an email: you load up your save game after playing thats all.

I think UBI should have Jaeger and Trenken on payroll...or maybe they already are???? who knows. Next thing you know you'll here they both jumped off a cliff....

Greyghost

01-29-10, 09:59 PM

Interesting that virtually all the no holds barred OSP supporters have vanishingly small post counts.

I thought it was more amusing at how aggressive they are in their support of DRM and Ubi.

Shiplord

01-29-10, 10:01 PM

please dont mix online play and single play with online save. drm means savings will be stored on ubi servers, nothing else. i think it would be like sending an email: you load up your save game after playing thats all.

I think you don't have clearly understand how this new DRM system works.
You must be online the whole time you play the singleplayer no matter how often you save during this time.

If you don't have a broadband flatrate it could be very expensive to play 2h the singleplayer campaign because you must be permanent online these 2h via Internet by Call and pay for the 120 minutes singleplayer.

KL-alfman

01-29-10, 10:08 PM

I thought it was more amusing at how aggressive they are in their support of DRM and Ubi.

that's only because of Jimbuna's influence!

trenken

01-29-10, 10:27 PM

that's only because of Jimbuna's influence!

No, it's because we've played games that use it, unlike most here, and it works just fine.

For this games purposes online, dialup might be just fine. If you can get broadband in your area, and can possible afford to build a machine capable of playing these games, then you can afford broadband, with a constant connection.

If it's not offered to you, which you'd be pretty hard pressed to find many towns that dont in some form in the year 2010, then you're one of the select few that will be left behind. Sorry.

IanC

01-29-10, 10:36 PM

No, it's because we've played games that use it, unlike most here, and it works just fine.

It's not about if it works. But I'm guessing if you're not getting why so many people are upset, nothing I can say now will make much difference. Right? Right.

Reece

01-29-10, 11:07 PM

Another "Oh isn't UBI wonderful - crawl - crawl" minority thread to ignore!:yep:

mookiemookie

01-29-10, 11:09 PM

then you're one of the select few that will be left behind. Sorry. Smart businesses don't make moves that provoke overwhelming customer ire. So nobody's getting left behind, except the companies taking this path thus alienating their customers and destroying their bottom line.

Nisgeis

01-30-10, 03:50 AM

But Mikhayl is right, here, we should stop the discussion now. it is enough.

I don't think that this issue will go away quite so easily as that.

HundertzehnGustav

01-30-10, 04:11 AM

Never shut up about a problem you have.
never just "take it".
Never back down.
Do NOT fall asleep.
stay awake.
discuss together.
plot your (collective?) revenge.

Gotmilk

01-30-10, 06:35 AM

Another "Oh isn't UBI wonderful - crawl - crawl" minority thread to ignore!:yep:

I dont see anyone praising UBI in this thread.

JU_88

01-30-10, 08:30 AM

Actually, you all blame Ubi, but isnt DRM really the fault of Software pirates? :hmmm:

Letum

01-30-10, 08:35 AM

Actually, you all blame Ubi, but isnt DRM really the fault of Software pirates? :hmmm:

In a sense this is true, but it is a trivial connection because that
reasoning would allow a publisher to cut off your fingers to prevent
piracy and then blame it on the pirates who forced them to take such
measures.

DRM that over steps the line is a consequence of piracy, but piracy
can't be blamed for it in any meaningful way. Software publishers can.

JScones

01-30-10, 09:48 AM

Actually, you all blame Ubi, but isnt DRM really the fault of Software pirates? :hmmm:
By this logic, then aren't software pirates largely the fault of the developers/publishers, for releasing games that aren't value for money? :hmmm: :O:

While releasing finished games with detailed manuals and such and at a reasonable price won't remove piracy altogether, it would arguably have a better effect than applying something like DRM, which simply invites hackers to crack it for the challenge and fame.

tater

01-30-10, 10:26 AM

next week, i will start a public campaign against ati: i dont like their new grafic boards and i dont like their marketing policy...

The basic premise of the OP is entirely wrong.

Of course EVERY customer "blames" a manufacturer for not making a product they like. If you don't like a product, or how they sell it, etc, ad nauseum, it's part of your decision making on what to buy or not buy.

If ATI adds a new scheme that only lets you use features of their card if the card is connected at that moment to the internet, you'd probably not be thrilled, either.

How about a net PC? Since all the sycophants have perfect connections, why not a PC that doesn't even have a local copy of the OS, it can boot up then load the OS from a server at Microsoft. You down with the next version of windows not being on your PC, but at the Gates' house?

Jaeger

01-30-10, 10:35 AM

The basic premise of the OP is entirely wrong.

Of course EVERY customer "blames" a manufacturer for not making a product they like. If you don't like a product, or how they sell it, etc, ad nauseum, it's part of your decision making on what to buy or not buy.

If ATI adds a new scheme that only lets you use features of their card if the card is connected at that moment to the internet, you'd probably not be thrilled, either.

How about a net PC? Since all the sycophants have perfect connections, why not a PC that doesn't even have a local copy of the OS, it can boot up then load the OS from a server at Microsoft. You down with the next version of windows not being on your PC, but at the Gates' house?

an os using internet servers as an alternative to your harddisk is in the making by google. most of the applications will be stored on google servers, theres only a small, slim os on your system. look at this: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html

and second: not to buy a product is a good choice of telling the company that you dont like their product. so, if you doont like drm, dont buy sh5. and, if you are interested, fight for a better world and tell all the noobs that drm is wrong. but what a cant understand is the verbal attack of ubi

oscar19681

01-30-10, 11:14 AM

next week, i will start a public campaign against ati: i dont like their new grafic boards and i dont like their marketing policy...

Why? Do Ati have DRM as well now? Lol!:haha:

HundertzehnGustav

01-30-10, 11:17 AM

but what a cant understand is the verbal attack of ubi

They have a good product we want - we clearly want, since we can mod it!
But we are not ready to trade in any freedom for it, thats what makes us mad!

tater

01-30-10, 11:37 AM

Because a not buying tells the bean counters something, but gives it no context. They will always blame it on something else. They'll blame it on piracy, lol. Anything but the reality.

This way at least they know they have to figure that X% of lost sales is people not wanting a DRM scheme that negatively affects their ability to play when they wish.

CaptainHaplo

01-30-10, 11:44 AM

JU_88

01-30-10, 01:03 PM

Nisgeis

01-30-10, 02:50 PM

If ATI adds a new scheme that only lets you use features of their card if the card is connected at that moment to the internet, you'd probably not be thrilled, either.

That would be very annoying. I had a similar issue once with an ethernet card. It only worked properly when it was connected to the network. I had a devil of a time trying to get a refund.

HundertzehnGustav

01-30-10, 03:28 PM

:haha::haha::haha:

tennozan

01-30-10, 03:50 PM

Ya'll have to forgive me as I've been travelling a bit over the last couple of years (344 days sleeping in hotels) and only get to glance at the Subsim boards occasionally. I'll have to admit that although I don't like DRM in principle, I think I understand some of the why: software piracy and control over product sales, etc. As for blaming Ubisoft for not offering my (YOUR) product, I'd probably beg to restate it as: troubled at the heavy handed approach to offering their product for sale to me. I guess I've gotten used to just living with all these "protection" programs that supposedly defend against software pirates ( who probably circumvent them for fun ) and have become a bit jaded to their intrusiveness. But frankly what this sounds like (constant online connection required) is just over the top for me. It feels like I not only have to buy and prove that I bought (which again, I can live with) the game but now must live with being continually monitored by the seller (Ubi). Now that I think about it, it seems that they are not really offering me to buy their game (YOUR) but rather allowing me to buy the opportunity to play (THEIR) game as long as I can be good and stay connected to them when I want to play. Again, it just feels pretty heavy handed to me.

JScones

01-30-10, 08:10 PM

JU88 - this move is NOT about piracy - its about later resells of the game that means money changes hands and Ubi doesn't get another slice of that pie.

They know this won't stop piracy.

The only way piracy is stopped is when games go fully MMO style - login and play with data sent from the server on a persistent and constantly modified world.

That isn't this game.
:yep: IMHO this is exactly what it is. It's much more convenient for Ubisoft to blame those rascally, naughty pirates for the need for such heavy handed DRM than it is to admit that they want to stamp out the second-hand PC market (which in doing so is illegal in many jurisdictions mind you - in the US search the recent judgment in Vernor v AutoDesk).

Think I'm off the mark? Then Google the Take-Two Publisher, who is on record as expressing their concern over second-hand sales only a mere few days ago...

Take-Two has said that it is getting more and more frustrated by second hand sales in stores like GameStop and GameStation, according to GI.biz (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/take-two-frustrated-by-second-hand-sales).

As such, the publisher said, it is increasingly moving towards online authentication systems to try and combat second-hand sales, as well as releasing DLC that encourages players to keep hold of their games.

Second-hand sales have long been a contentious issue for the industry as although they push up sales figures and profits for the stores, the publishers and developers accrue no extra profit from them.

"GameStop continues to aggressively push their used game business, which is having a meaningful negative impact on sales of new games," noted analyst Doug Creutz after consulting with Take-Two CEO Ben Feder.

"Management is frustrated with this trend and is examining ways to ameliorate the problem, which includes strategies around online play and downloadable content which extend the lifespan of AAA titles.”

If one of the ways that the company hopes to eliminate second-hand sales is by linking games into online systems like Games for Windows Live and Rockstar Social Club however then we’ll be sorely disappointed.Look what they are planning on doing to combat it. Sound familiar?

dkunath

01-30-10, 09:04 PM

In my not so humble opion, this thread is nonsense and a waste of time--this is directed at the first poster.

I am in total oppistion to DRM. What a bunch of crap UpISOFT is trying to push off on us. WE pay for the game BUT we don't own it! Wow! what a deal! You can only play it on an internet connection to their servers! Can it get any better!

Yes, if UBISOFT gets away with this with SH5 its going to do it with all of their games, and other producers will follers will follow.

Dwayne

Méo

01-30-10, 09:23 PM

JU88 - this move is NOT about piracy - its about later resells of the game that means money changes hands and Ubi doesn't get another slice of that pie.

Good point, but...

When you think that games like Assassin's Creed 2 have expected sales around 9 000 000 copies around the world (the link have been posted here few weeks ago, but can't remenber where).

And a game like SH4 had expected (or hoped) sales around 300 000 copies (been posted by Neal, long time ago, again I can't remember where).

This is approximately a ratio 1/30, 1 pc game sold for every 30 console games sold.

So personally, I can't be mad at them for wanting to avoid resells on SHV. :hmmm:

KL-alfman

01-30-10, 09:32 PM

So personally, I can't be mad at them for wanting to avoid resells on SHV. :hmmm:

you simply ignore the fact (as some members posted in the last days) that some people struck the SH-series at the second-hand market. assuming, they bought SH3 second-hand, liked it, bought SH4 first hand and are now eagerly awaiting the release of SH5 .....
by all means imaginable.

UBI's policy is short-sighted, punktum.

Zander

01-30-10, 09:35 PM

I just wont buy the damn thing. Period!
Enough already.

Subnuts

01-30-10, 09:39 PM

Leave Britney...I mean Ubi alone!

http://i49.tinypic.com/o9o7cn.jpg

Otha

01-30-10, 09:42 PM

Good point, but...

When you think that games like Assassin's Creed 2 have expected sales around 9 000 000 copies around the world (the link have been posted here few weeks ago, but can't remenber where).

And a game like SH4 had expected (or hoped) sales around 300 000 copies (been posted by Neal, long time ago, again I can't remember where).

This is approximately a ratio 1/30, 1 pc game sold for every 30 console games sold.

So personally, I can't be mad at them for wanting to avoid resells on SHV. :hmmm:

Um, I can. A company is entitled to fair market value in exchange for the product that sell me. And once I buy the product, I'm entitled to the same, should I decide to sell MY PROPERTY. A company isn't entitled to earn profits from MY PROPERTY in perpetuity. Now if a company decides that they want to start leasing me the product instead of selling it to me outright, that's their prerogative, just like it's my prerogative to say no thanks and walk away, because I'm not a twelve year old whose mommy buys him anything he wants, I happen to work for a living. Guess which approach is least profitable for said company when it's selling a title that appeals mainly to an adult demographic.

Méo

01-30-10, 09:47 PM

you simply ignore the fact

uh !? ...a fact! :o

assuming, they bought SH3 second-hand, liked it, bought SH4 first hand and are now eagerly awaiting the release of SH5 .....
by all means imaginable.

You're assuming they bought SH3 and you're assuming they liked it and you say it is imaginable...

Seems like a lot of assuming/supposing for a fact. :doh:

KL-alfman

01-30-10, 09:54 PM

uh !? ...a fact! :o

You're assuming they bought SH3 and you're assuming they liked it and you say it is imaginable...

Seems like a lot of assuming/supposing for a fact. :doh:

I was just referring to posts of members (in fact there were two, ok not a very significant figure) who told exactly these stories.

Méo

01-30-10, 10:14 PM

Um, I can. A company is entitled to fair market value in exchange for the product that sell me. And once I buy the product, I'm entitled to the same, should I decide to sell MY PROPERTY. A company isn't entitled to earn profits from MY PROPERTY in perpetuity.

I admit you got a point, but I guess that road leads to very specific details in the law (I guess international law).

Anyway, I'll talk for myself, but I really don't care about the resells thing...it's not like it would cost me an arm and a leg and it's not like I could resell it for 500$...for the amount of hours I've played SH3 (could be the same or even more for SHV, I really don't care about 50$).

And about the ''MY PROPERTY in perpetuity'' I don't expect to play SHV in 20 years from now.

Edit: I might not care about the ''MY PROPERTY in perpetuity'' but I do care about their server's efficiency for the time I will play.

Zoomer96

01-31-10, 02:04 AM

Reece

01-31-10, 02:23 AM

This idea that people shouldn't resell their games is silly, everyone has that right. What about companies like EB Games that have a second hand section for swapping, so instead of buying a game you can just swap it, who gets the money in this deal, certainly not the producers!! So if it's OK for companies like EB to do it why not us!!!:-?:O:

urfisch

01-31-10, 05:57 AM

On top of all this discussion, it looks to me that one day in the future we will be at the front door at Walmart looking at what game we will be renting from a coin operated machine. There would be quite a bit more money involved to all the retailers and Manufacturers if the customer were continually required to "rent". I've seen headlines that indicate DVD's are heading that way. Somehow it is always about the money.............:down:

mostly everything is about money. this is what really pisses me off.

if there would be on one hand a healty combination in profit orientated thinking and passioned work for the customers on the other hand, this would not be that bad. but most companies, if reached a certain size and revenue, do not care a bloody cent about CRM. CRM is only important, when theres to make some more profit with it...

its like a spinning wheel from hell...

DePhazz said in a song, called: squeeze the trigger..."money is just a big mind****, a pact with the devil, first step on a long road of nothing" and i agree with this.

The song is here:
http://www.last.fm/music/De-Phazz/Godsdog/Squeeze+The+Trigger

tater

01-31-10, 09:45 AM

Money is great, and the pursuit of it is the only reason we have cool games in the first place. The more money they make the better—and I can envision no more noble motivator.

The only reason for the DRm to matter to them is if it's a bad business decision from a cost-benefit standpoint. As a consumer, I can have my own reasons to dislike it, but personally them making more money is in the plus side for DRM if true since continued success means more games.

None the less, if protection is more of a PITA on me than some pirate, I'm not gonna buy it, and that is what matters to them at whatever level, the loss of my $$.

The customer, as they say, is always right.