A Question For Big Time Modders

[Brag]

What are the obstacles that prevent a group of modders like the GWX team to prodduce a game from the ground up?

1.- Technical obstacles?
2.- Financial resources?
3.- Other problems?

[Hitman]

Programming, programming and programming.

Finding someone to do textures and models is not that difficult, but good programmers skilled enough to write a simulator are scarce, and normally not interested in spending their free time in the same thing they do on their daily jobs.

Also, any decent commercial game has several programmers, not just one. Add that to the time limitations, and you get the picture: Developing a stable, bug-free, reasonably good simulator can take .... ages.

Still, if you are about to rely on that to get a decent sim, your best choices as of today are Imperial U-Flotilla (WW1) and Danger from the Deep (WW2).

Both in alpha or prealpha status, and already developing for a long time. :hmmm:

[bigboywooly]

Programming, time and resources

If we had the devs tools when doing GWX would have been a lot easier but starting from scratch and creating own code and software would take forever

[ParaB]

People massively underestimate the time and ressources you need to actually create a pc game nowadays. Creating textures, 3d models and modifying config files is NOTHING compared to the task of actual game development.

Just look at the number of indie titles built from scratch that actually rival the quality of games of big publishers. You won't find a lot.

[karamazovnew]

wowow, wait a sec... You mean GWX actually went inside the core code? What programming skill do you need to change config files? I thought the main victory of the GWX team was to circumvent the hard code and implement new features plus rework the campaigns, sensors and above all, TEST it all again and again and again.

[bigboywooly]

wowow, wait a sec... You mean GWX actually went inside the core code? What programming skill do you need to change config files? I thought the main victory of the GWX team was to circumvent the hard code and implement new features plus rework the campaigns, sensors and above all, TEST it all again and again and again.

lol no we didnt go inside the hard code
I said IF we had the devs tools would have been a lot easier
But we didnt
Which is why it wasnt so quick or simples

[ReallyDedPoet]

This was has been posted here before, never played it so I am not sure what the experience is like.

http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/

But it looks like the project is still going.

Have a look at some of the screens:

http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/gallery/

[Nicolas]

Seems that making a good 3d engine is the hard part.

[karamazovnew]

lol no we didnt go inside the hard code
I said IF we had the devs tools would have been a lot easier
But we didnt
Which is why it wasnt so quick or simples

I agree. Having made a mod myself I know what a pain in the arse it can be to not have access to the code. Even a non-skilled programmer like me could've made big improvements. Making SH3 better requires access to the code. Making a game from scratch requires imba programmers :up:

[johan_d]

I agree. Having made a mod myself I know what a pain in the arse it can be to not have access to the code. Even a non-skilled programmer like me could've made big improvements. Making SH3 better requires access to the code. Making a game from scratch requires imba programmers :up:

since you are very near, why dont you visit them ?

[trenken]

What are the obstacles that prevent a group of modders like the GWX team to prodduce a game from the ground up?

1.- Technical obstacles?
2.- Financial resources?
3.- Other problems?

I do 3D work for a living, Im a professional for over 10 years. If someone came to me to create all the 3D art for a game like this, full time it would probably take me 1-2 years.

Most of these guys have jobs, so multiply that. It's just not possible for a group of guys to build a game like this without funding. It costs a fortune and takes a looooooonnnnggg time.

[johan_d]

I agree. Having made a mod myself I know what a pain in the arse it can be to not have access to the code. Even a non-skilled programmer like me could've made big improvements. Making SH3 better requires access to the code. Making a game from scratch requires imba programmers :up:

Unless you have a simple version to build on, like FS had from the beginning, MS kept on building on the original until FSX.. then someone pulled the plug.
I think SH5 is going the same way, where SH3 is the best for us, the hardcore will stick on it, and the newbies go for the grapics, and quit playing after a few months. UBI cares less, since they are a Stockholder Satistfy Company and not a developper. $$ is all what counts, and publishing some games is just a way to get it. If UBI could satisfy the stockholders by making painted eggs, then they would that.. all for the money these days.

If the dev's really liked SH series, they better publish on their own or find a smaller publisher, like Bohemia did, and make a qualit sim.

[Letum]

If money wasn't an issue, I wonder how much it would cost.

[urfisch]

read my thoughts? THIEF!!!

:D

i think this is a very nice idea. but money is missing, as you need some really talented coders and graphic experts.

if you plan to develop a game, which is going to be sold (which is a need, as nobody wants to spend so much time in a project, that is for free) you need a lot of expensive licenses for usable frameworks, an 3d engine and software. you also need a good management and if you plan to set up a virtual working platform, where people from all over the world can work with, you need to code this too, i think.

so hitmans right. most work consists of coding. and coders want to be paid...

;)

[Letum]

If you are going to sell it you will need plenty of time from a lawyer as well. I know this from experience.

[GreyOctober]

Even a non-skilled programmer like me could've made big improvements.

Now THATS a big statement! :D

[Brag]

Whai I was thinking is; if a team got together to dev a good game. Just on this forum they would have access to over 20,000 subsimers to market their game to. That is not a shabby start.

If they sold 10,000 games, that would gross something like USD 500,000. That's not much to divide among the team for, let's say, two years work.

Reviews in the gaming press and community would bring more clients. A good game could lead to more games and a career developing simulations.

[urfisch]

right. i would state the amount of money for a simulation like this as followed:


development 120 working days (24 weeks):

- 10x coders á 200e/day - 240.000 (german standard income)
- 6x graphic artists á 100e/day - about 72.000
- 4x 3d artists á 150e/day - about 72.000
- 2x sound artists á 100e/day - about 24.000 (12.000)


management:

- 2x directors á 150e/day - 36.000
- 4x teamleader á 175e/day - 84.000
- 2x lawyer á 300e/day - 12.000 (8000)


software:

- licenses 45.000 Euros (photoshop, development tools, 3d programs, etc.)


3d engine:

- cryengine 2 - 6x 35.000 Euros, 210.000


frameworks:

- game engine self coded


======

personal ressources: 528.000 Euros
technical ressources: 255.000 Euros
======

783.000 Euros / 1.096.200 Dollars

:o

and this is without costs for offices, computers, etc.

[Hitman]

coders á 200e/day

lawyer á 300e/day

Say what?

I can't trust those figures, specially the last one -which belongs to a matter I know very well.

[urfisch]

Say what?

I can't trust those figures, specially the last one -which belongs to a matter I know very well.

this is just calculated on monthly income. a good coder here in germany costs 3000 euros a month. a lawyer costs 200 euros/hour.

the whole calculation is just a rough one. lets say, you can also get along with less than 1 mio dollars, if you hire eastern european coders. but its still enough...then...