If you dont like the online DRM...

[GoldenRivet]

... perhaps you could explain the FACTS to us all here.

no opinions.

just FACTS by answering these questions:




1. Do i have to have the game disk to play?

2. Will save games be saved on my PC?

3. If i lose connection, will i have to start all the way over back in port?

4. Does the service, by itself, cost anything (per month, etc)?

5. Does UBI install any spyware, malware or fishy software to monitor my online experience?

[zulus]

... perhaps you could explain the FACTS to us all here.

no opinions.

just FACTS by answering these questions:




1. Do i have to have the game disk to play?

2. Will save games be saved on my PC?

3. If i lose connection, will i have to start all the way over back in port?

4. Does the service, by itself, cost anything (per month, etc)?

5. Does UBI install any spyware, malware or fishy software to monitor my online experience?

4. Service might be free, but who can guarantee that UBI will not be asking to pay extra for patches/updates/addons in the future to be able to download, thus draining out customers who already payed full price for the very first release.

[GoldenRivet]

LOL let me help.


1. Do i have to have the game disk to play?

Nope, your game disc can be shelved to protect it from scratches and other damages.

2. Will save games be saved on my PC?

Yes

3. If i lose connection, will i have to start all the way over back in port?

No, you will start right back where you left off when the connection was lost.

4. Does the service, by itself, cost anything (per month, etc)?

No

5. Does UBI install any spyware, malware or fishy software to monitor my online experience?

No




So.....

whats the big deal?;)

[Q3ark]

:up:

[TDK1044]

LOL let me help.



Nope, your game disc can be shelved to protect it from scratches and other damages.



Yes



No, you will start right back where you left off when the connection was lost.



No



No




So.....

whats the big deal?;)

This is the big deal.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1248034&postcount=23

[karamazovnew]

You're wrong GR. On nr. 3, if you loose net connection the game freezes and waits. If you quit, you can only load the last save, wherever it may have been. We don't know yet if we can then save offline and upload the save to the server.

But the big deal for me is that right now I spend 3-4 days a week away from home. I travel a lot on trains that have electrical sockets, but no net. I can play SH3 just fine on my laptop but I won't be able to play SH5. Sure I could play it at home if I weren't too busy "giving flowers" to my girlfriend. Oh well, SH3 it is then... :up:

[GoldenRivet]

-People who simply want to buy a game with no strings attached.

Read your EULA on ANY game you have ever installed :har:

No strings attached commercial software does not exist that im aware of.

-People who have no internet connection (either a gaming PC, or navy people in deployment and so on).

So those without internet connection then... I guess nobody will be travelling back to 1984 and playing SHV... bummer :doh:

As for people on deployment... i would imagine that SHV will just be on a long list of games they wont be able to play unfortunate as that really is.

-People who have a connection paid per hour (dialup, some broadband services etc). If you play your weekly 5 hours of SH5 it's going to raise the bill significantly.

People still do this??? :o

-People who just have a not so stable connection, if your game pauses for anywhere between 5 and 30 minutes everytime there's bad weather or whatever connection issue it's not going to make anybody happy.

While this is true... it brings this image to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScA7PhDJPJE&feature=related

(some folks need to roll with the punches and grow up and realize that this scenario is VERY RARE.)

People who tell others that "this is modernity and if you don't have 27/7 broadband you shouldn't be playing hi-end games", well they're full of ****. The only requirement for a hi-end solo game is a hi-end computer, and those are available regardless of internet coverage. Internet is as relevant to solo gaming as my oven is to my toaster.

an excellent point.

but... you have these options

1. buy the game and deal with it

2. dont buy the game and sulk

3. Do either 1 or 2 but in the mean time, stop crying and whining at subsim about it, it is not our fault and nobody here can do anything about it.

[GoldenRivet]

You're wrong GR. On nr. 3, if you loose net connection the game freezes and waits. If you quit, you can only load the last save, wherever it may have been.

source, because thats not what i read at ubi.;)

[zulus]

GR I wish you luck but I'm affraid you won't change the tide much. Ppl actually don't want to be attached to internet when they play career and furthermore they don;t want to be dependent from internet connectivity since this might and will interfere with natural gameplay. I deffinetly don't want the game to be paused if I suddenly loose ic. This makes no sence at all.

[badkarma]

Let's add 6th and 7th questions that are biased like yours but in the other direction:

6. When UBI's servers go down for the evening when you want to play, are you happy to be locked out of the game you bought?

7. As this does nothing to stop piracy (see every other game that's been DRM'd, including huge stalwarts of the industry like Empire, Modern Warfare and the Steam platform), are you happy for these restrictions that can stop you playing totally outside of your control when the only advantage of them is to the publisher to stop 2nd hand sales and to monitor your usage?

In response to 5. Does UBI install any spyware, malware or fishy software to monitor my online experience? - As you're connected to their server and they're aware of everything you do in the game as you do it, and can quite easily have a nice skim of all your hardware, drivers, frame rates, etc. That'd be a yes.

[GoldenRivet]

GR I wish you luck but I'm affraid you won't change the tide much. Ppl actually don't want to be attached to internet when they play career and furthermore they don;t want to be dependent from internet connectivity since this might and will interfere with natural gameplay. I deffinetly don't want the game to be paused if I suddenly loose ic. This makes no sence at all.

Im one of those people who doesnt wish to be attached to the internet when i play in career mode either.

Dont get me wrong, im not all "feel good" about the DRM myself... but i think it is Much Ado About Nothing, and i think that for the most part, players wont even realize its active.

its just a sea of endless complaints - and i find it highly unlikely that ubi is going to change course based on our desires and demands.

[GoldenRivet]

Sad really.

perhaps ubisoft should just abort? forget about the project?

[Kapitanleutnant]

Maybe they should.

[ParaB]

perhaps ubisoft should just abort? forget about the project?

If a publisher wants to force me into tying an offline-singleplayer game to an online service which may well restrict my legal usage of said product and in addition makes it basically impossible to re-sell the product, yes.

[Lanzfeld]

Don't be a fool. You have to be able to see that this is just the first step in making us pay a monthly fee to keep the servers up and running. It is just the way these guys work nowadays. It is about nothing more then $$$.:88)

But besides that, I simply do not WANT to be on the internet while I play a game. Period. This is a leash. They can keep the game. Really. All of us can be happy doing other things like improving SH3 even more or, with luck, another subsim will pop up one day.:yeah:

[guynoir]

Sad really.

perhaps ubisoft should just abort? forget about the project?

You can go ahead and call me "Ubisoft" because I'm about this close || to doing what you suggested...

My uncle won't be able to make that choice since he's stuck with a terrible modem connection out in the country... Ubi made it for him.

[piri_reis]

So those without internet connection then... I guess nobody will be travelling back to 1984 and playing SHV... bummer :doh:

-People who have a connection paid per hour (dialup, some broadband services etc). If you play your weekly 5 hours of SH5 it's going to raise the bill significantly.

People still do this??? :o


Dude get back down to earth. There are people out there:

Without Internet connection, people that get services w/ quota.
And there are people that want to play the game without needing a connection. (Out at a summer house, on the road, at a coffee shop where there is paid internet, etc..)

[TDK1044]

Im one of those people who doesnt wish to be attached to the internet when i play in career mode either.

Dont get me wrong, im not all "feel good" about the DRM myself... but i think it is Much Ado About Nothing, and i think that for the most part, players wont even realize its active.

its just a sea of endless complaints - and i find it highly unlikely that ubi is going to change course based on our desires and demands.


You make some valid points, GR. Ironically, I think the biggest hit will be felt right here. These are not "I'm taking my ball and going home" cries we're hearing here. Many members will not purchase Silent Hunter V. If a few of the more experienced modders are among those choosing not to purchase, then the effect here will be noticable.

You'll see the same level of discontent at the Ubi Forum and others.

[zulus]

Im one of those people who doesnt wish to be attached to the internet when i play in career mode either.

Dont get me wrong, im not all "feel good" about the DRM myself... but i think it is Much Ado About Nothing, and i think that for the most part, players wont even realize its active.

its just a sea of endless complaints - and i find it highly unlikely that ubi is going to change course based on our desires and demands.

Nop. This is a high time for UBI to open their eyes and ears and listen what subsim lovers are asking for.As you know popularity of submarine simulations aren't that high but it seems they just keep pushing it to make it even smaller ? If they think DRM will protect their software from piracy they are so damned wrong.. Show me at least one protected game that wasn't cracked ? Ppl aren't braindead and they will always find solutions to avoid unnecessary procedures that makes entertainment so complicated or unacceptable from their POW. Simple as that, f.e. motivate me. why should I waste my money, then time registering my account then having headaches if my internet connection is lost or subsim server is down when I was about to attack the convoy if instead I can find a "light" version in the web to download and have no disruptions when I least want them ?

[GoldenRivet]

I completely understand all of the frustrations, really i do.

However, i fail to see what complaining will really do for you besides maybe raise your blood pressure.

Ubi is NOT your friend.

Ubi is a corporation out to make money

dont be delusional about it.

If Ubisoft decides this is the best way for them to protect their bottom line, they have had hundreds of meetings about it before any announcment was ever made... thats the choice they have made, if you chose not to buy the game, all good and well, i have yet to make up my mind as there are no accurate and available reviews of the game... however, stinking up the place is not going to help either way

thats the whole point im trying to make

[SteamWake]

Announcement.. heh... more like the cat slipped out of the bag :shifty:

[ParaB]

You seem to ignore the fact that massive consumer protest in the past HAS actually led major publishers to re-think their DRM policies. You are, of course, free to go into surrender mode (:03:) but you might also consider that protest (as in protesting with your wallet) CAN actually change the way you, as a customer, are treated.

[Sailor Steve]

Does the service, by itself, cost anything (per month, etc)?
It's funny, but on this one I actually go beyond the obvious in the other direction. Rockin Robbins noted in the big DRM thread that the future of this could include Pay-For-Service, but the service could include updates, additional material and future complete versions of add-ons such as the other boats, Pacific war and everything else we could imagine. I could even see the future of modding being the modder offering something to UBI, them adding it in and releasing it, and the modder getting paid for it! I see all of this as a great possibility.

That said, the last two years have proven to me that I can't always afford an internet connection, so I won't be able to play it at all. And I play games to keep me happy while I can't go somewhere to get online.

So that's the big deal for me, and I won't be buying it now, as they refuse to let me play it (assuming all this is true, of course).

[martes86]

However, i fail to see what complaining will really do for you besides maybe raise your blood pressure.

Ubi is NOT your friend.

Ubi is a corporation out to make money

dont be delusional about it.

You think we don't know that?
I think that now you're the one that's gotten the wrong directions of the protest. The protests are not just to stink the place for no reason. Showing our disagreement and anger about this matter is definitely a way to show we don't like what's been done, and, in some cases, opinions can change the final outcome. The best example is SH3's dynamic campaign and its delay from september to march, that made it much more likable than what it might have been had it been released earlier, and without the people's protests.

And there's no real reason to stink the place, just being civil, polite, and respectful, points can be made, and those shall show Ubi the mistake of their positions. It's been proven to work, why shouldn't it work now?

[trenken]

You think we don't know that?
I think that now you're the one that's gotten the wrong directions of the protest. The protests are not just to stink the place for no reason. Showing our disagreement and anger about this matter is definitely a way to show we don't like what's been done, and, in some cases, opinions can change the final outcome. The best example is SH3's dynamic campaign and its delay from september to march, that made it much more likable than what it might have been had it been released earlier, and without the people's protests.

And there's no real reason to stink the place, just being civil, polite, and respectful, points can be made, and those shall show Ubi the mistake of their positions. It's been proven to work, why shouldn't it work now?

You have to know a little about technology to know that this is a lost cause. When you make a game that uses DRM, so much of the game is structured around that system. This is not something that this small community is going to get changed. It would delay the game for a year or more.

It's a large structural change that would need to take place, its simply not happening. Live with it or stop crying about it because it is what it is, dont buy the game if you dont want. Simple as that.

[piri_reis]

It's a large structural change that would need to take place, its simply not happening. Live with it or stop crying about it because it is what it is, dont buy the game if you dont want. Simple as that.

You got some pretty flawed logic my friend.
This is a single player game not an MMO. So it should have minimal amount of code about the DRM. I bet it's just a wrapper around the core SH5 code, and some more on the savegame/patch update engine. It could be very easy to take out for the developers, if UBI ever decided to do so.

And Subsim is the biggest community of online simmers, just what are you talking about :shifty:

[trenken]

I bet it's just a wrapper around the core SH5 code

Hehe, wikipedia is your friend. It's not a wrapper. It's something that is decided before anything is done on the game because every single aspect of the game needs to know how to work with DRM. Do some research.

About the community, noone is saying its not the biggest, but it is still relatively small to all the gamers that would buy SH5. Im pretty sure they arent going to delay and rebuild aspect of this game for a handful of people here. Seriously man...

[Letum]

If we buy something we should own it.

If I buy an football I should be able to kick it anywhere at any time I like.

Buy a football from Ubi and you have to ring them up to ask them to use
it and stay on the phone whilst kicking it, even though you paid for it.
That doesn't sound like owning the football to me. :nope:

[trenken]

If we buy something we should own it.

If I buy an football I should be able to kick it anywhere at any time I like.

Buy a football from Ubi and you have to ring them up to ask them to use
it and stay on the phone whilst kicking it, even though you paid for it.
That doesn't sound like owning the football to me. :nope:

You do own it. Your save data will remain on their server for many years. Whats the problem here? Your PC dies, you simply install SH5 on a new one, continue where you left off. No transferring saves or anything, which is often a pain in the ass with games like this.

This is the reason why most PC dev's are using this now. What, do you think they're all delusional, every one of them going with an awful system? Come on.

[danlisa]

You do own it......

So you're saying that I can decide when and where to use it. I don't need Ubis say so and can play when the urge takes me.

Long car journeys, train journeys, plane trips etc.......

OH WAIT YOU NEED A PERMANENT INTERNET CONNECTION.:damn:

[Letum]

You do own it.

So...I own it, but I have to be constantly asking for permission when I
use it and I can't use it at all when I'm away from the means to ask for
permission?

Funny kinda ownership. Sounds more like Ubi still own it to me.

[trenken]

So...I own it, but I have to be constantly asking for permission when I
use it and I can't use it at all when I'm away from the means to ask for
permission?

Funny kinda ownership. Sounds more like Ubi still own it to me.

What? Have you ever played a game that uses it? Because everything you said there is false.

[Letum]

What? Have you ever played a game that uses it? Because everything you said there is false.


...yes, I have.
What do you think I have said that is false?

[danlisa]

What? Have you ever played a game that uses it? Because everything you said there is false.

Is there an "off-line" option?
No. The added services to the game (unlimited installs, online storage of saved games and the fact that you don’t need the game disc to play) require you to have an online connection while playing the game.

No permanent Internet connection, no play.

Is that clear enough?

[exponent8246]

I personally am not keen on DRM's and dont fancy having to go online just to play BUT i will still buy the game because it looks so promising and I love the series!
I will definately give it a chance!

There is 1 single advantage to being logged into UBI's servers and that is to instantly receive the numerous patches that will be released in the months after release because lets face it, it will NOT be finished when released anyway!!!:D

Buggy and BSOD will be the constant cries from the punters (if previous SH releases are anything to go by):haha:

Bring on the Modders!!!!

[trenken]

...yes, I have.
What do you think I have said that is false?

I play a game called Guild Wars, I know for a 100% fact it uses the exact same system SH5 is using.

This is the process, I turn my PC on, launch the game, log in, begin playing. Thats it. What are you talking about asking permission for ? Lol. I can also do this from any machine I installed the game on, which is limitless.

If I want to install SH5 on my work machine, I can do that, and continue work on my save file that I started at home with no hassle at all.

I simply dont believe that anyone that is complaining about DRM has actually had any experience with it. It works very well. These guys make games for a living, they wouldnt go with it if it sucked, especially when so many other people are using it now.

[karamazovnew]

I play a game called Guild Wars, I know for a 100% fact it uses the exact same system SH5 is using.


Guild Wars is a FREE TO PLAY MMORPG. And a really good one too.

[trenken]

Guild Wars is a FREE TO PLAY MMORPG. And a really good one too.

You have to buy it, but there are no monthly fees. You think there will be fee's to play SH5? Not gonna happen. Its not even an MMO no less, so there is really no reason to keep charging you, unlike MMOs which are just a massive load on the servers.

[trenken]

Just like they didn't go with Starforce? :yawn:
And Guild Wars is a MMO, internet is a material requirement. SH5 is supposed to be a mostly solo (offline) game.

It doesnt matter if its online or solo. Believe me it doesnt make a difference. Guild Wars is a solo game if you want it to be as well, and there's many single player PC games that use DRM.

Starforce was some crap that didnt exactly last very long. DRM is used by many game developers, unlike starforce.

[trenken]

I know exactly whats going to happen. It's going to come out, people will try it, and say "oh this isnt so bad". Then they'll quickly realizes it actually has some great advantages.

You need to experience a game that uses DRM to realize there's nothing wrong with it at all. But naturally people are afraid of change, even if they dont know that its actually an improvement. They get stubborn and just trash it all day, but they'll find out in March.

[badkarma]

Hehe, wikipedia is your friend. It's not a wrapper. It's something that is decided before anything is done on the game because every single aspect of the game needs to know how to work with DRM. Do some research.

About the community, noone is saying its not the biggest, but it is still relatively small to all the gamers that would buy SH5. Im pretty sure they arent going to delay and rebuild aspect of this game for a handful of people here. Seriously man...

So when asked in the Q&A if the DRM would be removed at a future date if the servers were to be removed due to age, etc, their reply that "we would create a patch that would remove the need to connect" is actually a TOTAL lie?
As according to you, it cannot be removed.

Odd that UBI themselves say it can. Oh and no doubt a hacking crew will have it removed within days of release, if not before.

But it can't be removed? I believe "Do some research" is appropriate, for you.

[GoldenRivet]

All very interesting arguments.

I agree with the "i paid for it i should get to use it without having to ring up ubi" comment

but i also feel that there is a lot of needless complaining... if this is the direction Ubisoft has decided to go, there doesnt seem to be much we can do about that.

I also think that most users wont be affected by the DRM choice.

[trenken]

So when asked in the Q&A if the DRM would be removed at a future date if the servers were to be removed due to age, etc, their reply that "we would create a patch that would remove the need to connect" is actually a TOTAL lie?
As according to you, it cannot be removed.

Odd that UBI themselves say it can. Oh and no doubt a hacking crew will have it removed within days of release, if not before.

But it can't be removed? I believe "Do some research" is appropriate, for you.

Did someone say its impossible to remove it? I sure didnt, what I said was thats not a very easy thing to do.

Go on youtube and search for guild wars dev diaries. It also uses DRM, and Jeff Strain talks about how massive a project it is to construct a game around DRM. Every aspect of the game is built with DRM in mind, but it can be removed. Anything can be done, but it would take a long time. A year would not surprise me at all.

[GoldenRivet]

all i can say

with the one sub choice

with the 1943 ending

with the DRM nightmare good vs. evil debate

things are stacking up for SHV

and the image that becomes more and more clear every day is not looking great.

:nope:

[trenken]

So Ubi would pay a team of programmers for 6months/1year just to publish an offline patch when they decide to remove support for a game from their servers? And that for all their games? Please.

No you're not understanding. Again GW is a great example since it uses DRM. Arenanet is talking about stopping support for GW, but you can play the game forever, it will always use DRM, it will always access their server, they just wont be serving any updates, thats what not supporting means, it doesnt mean changing the way the game works.

They wouldnt rebuild the entire game when all their servers are doing is holding people save files and tracking stats. That's nothing. There would never be a need to do that.

DRM is also great as time goes by, it allows them to improve the look of the game over time, updating textures and whatnot. Its really cool.

[badkarma]

Did someone say its impossible to remove it? I sure didnt, what I said was thats not a very easy thing to do.

Go on youtube and search for guild wars dev diaries. It also uses DRM, and Jeff Strain talks about how massive a project it is to construct a game around DRM. Every aspect of the game is built with DRM in mind, but it can be removed. Anything can be done, but it would take a long time. A year would not surprise me at all.

You REALLY need to get over the Guild Wars obsession here.
Have you played any single player non-MMO games that require internet
connection? That might actually be relevant to this discussion.
Guild Wars is an MMO, ergo it will ALWAYS need a connection. It's a totally different beast.

And as Mikhayl stated, there is no way they're going to pay devs a year to rewrite most of the game to remove the DRM, so quit with your random guesses.
According to you hackers rewrite these game in 3 days! Man they're good, maybe we should pay them a weeks wages to write us the ultimate sub sim?

[piri_reis]

So Ubi would pay a team of programmers for 6months/1year just to publish an offline patch when they decide to remove support for a game from their servers? And that for all their games? Please.

Trenken thinks he knows all the intricacies of the DRM world, from the dev diaries of GW.. And that we're all newbies in this computer business..

That game is an MMO, and needs to check everything you do, everything you buy/sell, use, kill, whatever from the server and interact it with the whole community of connected users...
The DRM we have w/ SH5 will just be a glorified disc-checker at the startup of the game, that will connect and check your digital certificate or whatever system they have implemented, check your version and upload/download savegame. That's all there is to it...
But for some reason they need you to keep being connected, for what reason??

Easy to implement and easy to take out.. The devs are busy developing/tweaking/bug hunting the game engine right now not working on the functions of drm..

[trenken]

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good. I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.

Just calm down, wait for the game to come out. This board is turning into a cesspool of negativity. To be expected I guess.

[zulus]

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good. I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.

Just calm down, wait for the game to come out. This board is turning into a cesspool of negativity. To be expected I guess.

So you wanna talk about the wind of changes ? Mind telling at least one good thing about RDM system ?

[Thomen]

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good.

Comparing a MMO, that requires a permanent connection with a single player game that does not need such connection, except when used in multiplayer mode does not make you look any more knowledgeable about the details. ;)

[TDK1044]

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good. I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.

Just calm down, wait for the game to come out. This board is turning into a cesspool of negativity. To be expected I guess.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason for my decision not to buy it is based on a five year history with Ubisoft. Buggy games that need significant patching are one thing, but add online DRM into that equation and for me it's a deal breaker. Simple as that.

That doesn't mean that I disagree with some of the points you make, trenken, especially regarding Starforce. I was trying to figure out what possible relationship Starforce has to online DRM.

I just don't trust this Publisher. So I'm out. :)

[ETR3(SS)]

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge of how to build a videogame actually assuming how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game, and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards. Lol

Only on the internet...

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.

Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good. I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.

Just calm down, wait for the game to come out. This board is turning into a cesspool of negativity. To be expected I guess.Well please, educate the dumb masses here as to what DRM is exactly.:know:

[zulus]

This DRM nonsence will be cut out or completely disabled like an evil cancer by cracker groups anyway. If UBI wants to cancel work on submarine simulations by including DRM and then later bitch about low sale rates to completly shut it down let them have it. Maybe they already have a plan as a excuse how to seize future developments on submarine simulations which maybe showned to be unprofitable enough in the past or by future sell probability prognosis ? Just a wild guess from my camp..

[Nickolas]

...how easy they think it is to remove DRM from any game...


it IS rather easy, that's why games get cracked... its just a few lines of code that activate or block the game's code. That why you can't compare an MMO with a normal game, an MMO needs to be told by the server where other players are and stuff, that's why the whole code "depends" on the "DRM".


DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days. Its not something slapped on in post production. Games are built around it. Starforce is entirely different, its a licensing protection system, that is not what DRM is.


DRM stands for Digital Rights Management, copy protection, by definition is DRM. Starforce is DRM and whatever DRM they are using is not called DRM.

If i remember correctly, mass effect required to connect to internet every 3 or 4 days to remain active (somewhat similar to SHV's DRM) and it was cracked



Change is good sometimes guys, thats your life lesson of the day. Hard for some to believe apparently, but its actually true, change can be good.


change can be good, that's true but it also can be bad. And with the info we are getting looks like change will be BAD this time.


I dont understand the miserable pessimistic state of mind where you spend your days ripping a game to pieces that you havent even played yet.


that speech about "not having played it yet" is getting really old. If we feel we are not happy with the information we are given we can (and will) make it public. That way UBI could (and i'm not saying they will) come and tell us how and why we are wrong instead of thinking "hehe, these guys will love the game", and turns out nobody buys it because we feel alienated by the campaign map screenshot they posted earlier.

[badkarma]

Bunch of people here with 0 knowledge

No, just you.

DRM is not starforce, its not hacked in 3 days.

Go find out how long it took to circumvent the DRM that's in Empire:Total War. Then get back here with some knowledge, not just the details contained in 2 blog posts you once read about an MMO.
People WILL be playing SH5, on the day of release, and won't have paid a penny for it or need to report to the mother ship that they just fired a torp at an AI ship.
And currently, there are probably going to be a lot more people typing "SHV" and "Torrent" into google than there were previously.

This is why piracy is so difficult to stop, because once 1 person cracks (and be sure they will) it it is impossible to stop the distribution.. so much so, whereas once cracked games were the preserve of little groups of hackers they are now open to anyone with a little knowledge and access to google.
Making legitimate users lives so awkward that they consider looking for the cracked version is hardly the solution.

But you continue to preach your amazing future, irrelevant of everyone elses' opinions.
You are, of course, far better than the rest us.

[ETR3(SS)]

1. Do i have to have the game disk to play?
From an Ubi Q&A:

A CD/DVD is not required to play the game.

2. Will save games be saved on my PC?

Again from the same Ubi Q&A

Will all my saved games be stored online?
Yes! They will be stored both online and on your PC.

3. If i lose connection, will i have to start all the way over back in port?

Same Q&A:

What will happen if I lose my Internet connection when I play the game?
If you lose your Internet connection the game will pause while it tries to reconnect. If the Internet Connection is unable to resume you can continue the game from where you left off or from the last saved game.

4. Does the service, by itself, cost anything (per month, etc)?

No data on this at the moment, could go either way. Fact though it does cost money to maintain those servers.


5. Does UBI install any spyware, malware or fishy software to monitor my online experience?[/QUOTE]

From same Q&A as before:

Do any services run when I am not playing?
No. The only service that might be running after you exit the game is the online synchronization of saved games which runs until it is completed. It is not a hidden window, so you can cancel it at any time, and it will finish the synchronization the next time you start the game.

Do you add any monitoring tools to my computer?
No! We respect your privacy and will only access information needed for the new services and game to function. There are no hidden programs or monitoring tools installed.


Opinion: World of Warcraft is a well know game even if you don't play it. It started out the very same way. Later on in an attempt to uncover people that were using packet sniffers to try and develop trainers for the game, this changed. What Ubi says now and what they do later may or may not be the same thing.

Fact:Can I resell my game?
Not at this time.

Can I resell my game along with my Ubisoft account?
Your Ubisoft account features your personal data and cannot be given or sold to anyone. This is the same as with WoW. For those of you that thought you would buy this later on down the road second hand for a cheap price, game over.

[Gatt]

... perhaps you could explain the FACTS to us all here.

no opinions.

just FACTS by answering these questions:




1. Do i have to have the game disk to play?

2. Will save games be saved on my PC?

3. If i lose connection, will i have to start all the way over back in port?

4. Does the service, by itself, cost anything (per month, etc)?

5. Does UBI install any spyware, malware or fishy software to monitor my online experience?

If I have to tell you why I canceled my pre-order of a game that I will play only offline and that will require a permanent internet connection, then you need some serious help.

I am a beta tester of Rise of Flight (same DRM, so far) and I do know what I'm talking about.

[zulus]

4. Does the service, by itself, cost anything (per month, etc)? No data on this at the moment, could go either way. Fact though it does cost money to maintain those servers.This is it! The half mouth spoken truth IMO! It's aaaaaalll about the money. Weren't they be gipsies afterall to include DRM for later money draining operations "as to support servers" lol omg... Sorry if I insulted somebody bur seriously it is theft with braking in.

[KL-alfman]

my last words to this DRM-issue are quoting:

"defending freedom means thwarting DRM"
(Richard Stallman)

[tater]

A flakey net connection is not "very rare" for some of us, sadly.

If a game requires me to be online, I expect to be playing with and vs other human beings. Period. I can accept that when my connect goes to crap I cannot play.

When an OFFLINE game gets screwed up because of a flakey connection, that's where I draw the line. It's a 100% show stopper. Never would I pay money for that. Not ever.

[bigboywooly]

thought[/B] you would buy this later on down the road second hand for a cheap price, game over.


No it will be in the bargain bin after a few months
New
Cheap
and without DRM

:rotfl2:

[conus00]

Sad really.

perhaps ubisoft should just abort? forget about the project?

Maybe they should. They also should release the game engine code to the subsim community so we can pitch money together, "hire" devs and build ourselves u-boat simulator WE want. :haha:

[conus00]

No you're not understanding. Again GW is a great example since it uses DRM. Arenanet is talking about stopping support for GW, but you can play the game forever, it will always use DRM, it will always access their server, they just wont be serving any updates, thats what not supporting means, it doesnt mean changing the way the game works.

They wouldnt rebuild the entire game when all their servers are doing is holding people save files and tracking stats. That's nothing. There would never be a need to do that.

DRM is also great as time goes by, it allows them to improve the look of the game over time, updating textures and whatnot. Its really cool.

Somebody open this guy's eyes: NOT EVERYBODY HAS STEADY INTERNET CONNECTION. Speaking about internet connection (just in the USA) about 30% of people still have dial-up. Do you seriously think that they play pay-per-hour game?

[badkarma]

Somebody open this guy's eyes: NOT EVERYBODY HAS STEADY INTERNET CONNECTION. Speaking about internet connection (just in the USA) about 30% of people still have dial-up. Do you seriously think that they play pay-per-hour game?

I'm afraid he's a lost cause. He just suggested that someone get a satellite connection so they could play on a laptop where they have no connection.
I noticed he didn't offer to pay for it!

The guys so wrapped up in his own little world I'm afraid he's oblivious to anyone who isn't him :-?

[martes86]

You have to know a little about technology to know that this is a lost cause. When you make a game that uses DRM, so much of the game is structured around that system. This is not something that this small community is going to get changed. It would delay the game for a year or more.

It's a large structural change that would need to take place, its simply not happening. Live with it or stop crying about it because it is what it is, dont buy the game if you dont want. Simple as that.

Don't even try to lecture me on technological complications, I'm a professional programmer working in the medical systems for the whole southern Spain, and developing for an indie railroad sim in my spare time, so I know the field well enough to ponder what's complicated and what not.

Is it complicated? Yeah, that's no mistery when it involves synchronizing info with a remote server. All methods managing the game information must have calls to the respective client-side communication libraries, which, in the event of a need for a change, would involve creating all class libraries that would use independent system interaction without the need for a remote connection. Or maybe it's much simpler, and all it does is gather runtime information, and then send all at once in the programmed events, which would actually be the wise decision, to centralize communications within a class, that gets a single call whenever a synchronization takes place, and so, if this was the case, it could be as easy as developing a new class that contained methods for intro validation, and load/save routines.

No matter what, it doesn't mean we have to "stop crying". Again, tell that to those that cried for dynamic campaign back when SH3 was being developed. As long as it is civil, I don't see a problem in people complaining about the ill-advised design decisions.

[Platapus]

5. Does UBI install any spyware, malware or fishy software to monitor my online experience?


Monitoring online experiences is not the only purpose of spy/malware.

I am not as trusting as I used to be concerning what software companies will and won't do once they have access to my computer.

When it comes to corporations, if they can, they will, if there is a profit/advantage in it for them. Trusting corporations is not one of my core values. :nope:

[Webster]

im less worried about the game companies stealing my info but its the door they open and leave open for any bad doers who know how to follow the games access through these entry points.


im not going to have one computer for my banking and another just for games, if i wanted to do that i would buy a console

[JScones]

http://vittlesvamp.typepad.com/photos/blog/oliver.jpg
Please Sir Ubisoft, may I play some more?

[henriksultan]

1. Do i have to have the game disk to play?
No

2. Will save games be saved on my PC?
Yes

3. If i lose connection, will i have to start all the way over back in port?
No (we will se about save corruptions do :P)

4. Does the service, by itself, cost anything (per month, etc)?
No

5. Does UBI install any spyware, malware or fishy software to monitor my online experience?
Not that we know of :P

But this doesnt change a thing, these are the good things but you still must have a working internet and always sync with there servers. I dont buy games to be spied on, I like the offline gaming. And as always loads of people are going to react this way and just crack the game instead (might take time but it will be done) to show Ubi how much they like the idea.

Why are you hitting yourself Ubi?

[bigboywooly]

http://vittlesvamp.typepad.com/photos/blog/oliver.jpg
Please Sir Ubisoft, may I play some more?


:rotfl2::rotfl2:

[Galanti]

and so deathly afraid of a change that the entire PC gaming industry is moving towards.

I think you're making a mistake equating this community with the majority of gamers out there. The 'services' this DRM scheme offers may be of some value to the COD gun bunnies or Guild Wars fanatics of the world, but at the risk of repeating myself, are just not compatible with the way most subsimmers play their beloved sims.

Most of us, I think, play offline exclusively. Streaming updates kill mods, and we need mods, particularly if we're only getting one boat and that wretched UI is actually going to be shipped with the game.

You may be right that this is the way the industry is moving, and that we as a community may very well be marginalized and left behind, but you;re not going to change very many minds here. Go pitch 'The Great Leap Forward' somewhere else.

[DEZ]

Did i not read that a patch would be released if any server downtime is planned to allow people to play offline.
If this is true then a patch must already be made to send out if needed.
A bigger worry for me would be unplanned server downtime. If UBI servers go down, we are left looking at an error message till they fix it

If your in rural area with unstable connection then i guess you will get to know that error message quite well

[CaptainHaplo]

This decision dooms SH5 to be a failure compared to SH3/4.

This decision absolutely throws the whole "its mod friendly" statement out the window. Sure Dan and his team may have made it easily moddable, but any "OSP" is going to verify files to make sure you haven't tried to "crack" the software illegally. Then of course Ubi is looking at rolling out patches and updates this way, meaning you may log in, and hose your game because they patched it and screwed up your working, modded install. Oh - and don't forget the DLC packages are going to mean modders will have to have different versions of their mods to match up with whichever packages you may have vs someone else. That's going to be real fun for us to keep track of!

But the real issue I have with this - is the question of what happens 2 years after the game is released. Lets say those who buy it love it, nothing eats their computers or their data. But the game isn't making money anymore - so Ubi decides that since the people playing are not a high enough number - they shut down the server that is required to play.

Either they will arbitrarily shut the server down - meaning no more playing SH5, or notify customers that they will need to pay to keep the server up. Ultimately, this day WILL come, because its a business inevitability. Ubi can't just keep the server running forever once sales of SH5 disappear.

The only hope SH5 has is if Ubi does release a patch that allows offline play. If they do - then I suspect sales will immediately jump. Until then, expect the SH5 numbers to be less than satisfactory for Ubi.

[Turbografx]

http://vittlesvamp.typepad.com/photos/blog/oliver.jpg
Please Sir Ubisoft, may I play some more?


WHAT!? MORE!!!

[THE_MASK]

You can download my sobers SH5 OPS(DRM) mod from the SH5 download section .

[TwistedFemur]

So.....

whats the big deal?;)


Well, If its anything like Rise of Flight were in the middle of a mission a box appears saying "Error Lost connection to Master Server"
Next thing you know your staring at the hanger screen with a dead pilot and no credit for the kills you spent the last half hour racking up.

You might not have to start your campaign over again, but you sure as snot have to start that mission over again.

and if for some reason you dont pay your internet bill and it gets shut off you cant play it

Nope constant internet connection to play singleplayer is a deal breaker for me.:salute:

<EDIT> oh and it takes between 3 to 5 minutes for Rise of Flight to load, even between missions.

[FIREWALL]

I don't lease games(SIMS) I buy them. Get it ?


I hope the ones who are a little slow on the uptake on this website can get how the majority here and elsewhere feel.

If various languages don't get thru to you. USE TRANSLATE. :DL

[Task Force]

anouther question... so your in the middle of a convoy, near ship(s) Oah nos! server connection lost... save, try to restart, and you soon find that 5 has the same save game bug 3&4 had... Im sure this game has a chance to have this bug...

Now your sol...

[Sgtmonkeynads]

Great point Task Force ! I used this one in another thread,

If I spend four hours to get into a convoy, at periscope depth, and my connection is lost, the game will pause. They said it will save the game for me, cool ! But when I reload the game, if it is like anyother SH, it will start me on the surface, then I get my butt handed to me by an entire convoy while I try to crashdive. That is if it works the way they say it does in the first place. Face it, the entire SH series has been void of a safe save the game anytime you want feature since I don't know when.