Memo to Ubisoft

[TDK1044]

Reading through the threads of this Forum, so much could be accomplished if Ubisoft was to give Neal access to a full version of the game NOW.

There is an understandable mixture of disappointment, frustration and anger in the air at the moment, and I believe a lot of that could be significantly reduced by Neal having review access to the latest version of the game.

Come on Ubisoft. You have known Neal for many years. You know that you can trust him. Allow him to do your company a big favor, by addressing the concerns of many here regarding the latest incarnation of a franchise that this Forum has strongly supported over the years.

Let him review the game!

[Dowly]

What if our fears are found to be true and the game will be crap? :88)

[TDK1044]

What if our fears are found to be true and the game will be crap? :88)

Then at least people would know for sure. Right now, all we are getting is negative frustration based on very little hard information regarding the game. Even something as simple as dynamic shadows in the game could be answered once and for all.

I'll bet you that there are some really nice features in the game that we are totally unaware of.

We are stuck with the VII subs and a 1943 finish....for now, but there may be some really nice gems that we are unaware of.

[Decoman]

I expect money to be deposited magically to my bank account and my refridgerator filled with tasty food, after purchasing SH5.

Also my hair ought to become bigger.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Dear Ubisoft,

Up your bum.

I remain yours everlastingly
Mr. Sir. Kapitanleutnant Esq. (est.1984)

[Dowly]

Then at least people would know for sure. Right now, all we are getting is negative frustration based on very little hard information regarding the game. Even something as simple as dynamic shadows in the game could be answered once and for all.

I'll bet you that there are some really nice features in the game that we are totally unaware of.

We are stuck with the VII subs and a 1943 finish....for now, but there may be some really nice gems that we are unaware of.

Well, all game devs tend to keep their mouth shut about their game until it's released. It's part of the marketing strategy, if you dont tell everything about the game, the player must buy the game to find out what it's about. Atleast, I think that's the point of this. :yep:

[Dowly]

Dear Ubisoft,

Up your bum.

I remain yours everlastingly
Mr. Sir. Kapitanleutnant Esq. (est.1984)

:haha::haha:

[TDK1044]

Well, all game devs tend to keep their mouth shut about their game until it's released. It's part of the marketing strategy, if you dont tell everything about the game, the player must buy the game to find out what it's about. Atleast, I think that's the point of this. :yep:

You are absolutely right. And I think that for most people, the allure of the game will be too much and they will buy it knowing that it can be modded. But a review from Neal would certainly help the frustration and anger element currently present.

[Adriatico]

Reading through the threads of this Forum, so much could be accomplished if Ubisoft was to give Neal access to a full version of the game NOW.


How do You expect Ubi to do it NOW: when you have so many "smarteys" on this forum, repeating to us:
- not to judge before actual release
- to wait for instalation on HD before complaining
- not to disturb Devs now, because they are tired
- ...etc.

Ubi wont give us something - if we, as community, do not know clearly what we want !

:damn:

[ReallyDedPoet]

the allure of the game will be too much and they will buy it knowing that it can be modded

Regardless of how good or bad the game may be, the difference has always been this, moddability. Not just that folks can tailor the game to their liking, but the fact that it can be modded period to the level it has to this point.

[TDK1044]

Regardless of how good or bad the game may be, the difference has always been this, moddability. Not just that folks can tailor the game to their liking, but the fact that it can be modded period to the level it has to this point.

Agree totally, Kev, and a review from Neal could also answer things like AA, AF, Dynamic Shadows, FPS on a mid range rig, how good does the water look? Does the sub feel like it's on rails? How much fun is the first person mode? What options can be enabled/disabled in the game? How does the AI feel?

None of the answers to these issues will prevent sales here, other than a very small percentage who have already decided not to buy it, but a good review would establish a 'glass half full' feeling in the community in my view. :)

[ReallyDedPoet]

None of the answers to these issues will prevent sales here, other than a very small percentage who have already decided not to buy it, but a good review would establish a 'glass half full' feeling in the community in my view. :)

Plus SUBSIM has done a lot for the series over the years. The majority of it constructive
( threads, forums and posts ) :yep:

[Deimos01]

Development process of any Silent Hunter game.

1) Game is announced

2) There is much excitement in the community of what the new game promises.

3) Frustration grows as the devs release little or no new information.

4) Wild speculation ensues around the scraps of information that are released.

5) Wild speculation meets frustration which in turn generates anger and hostility.

6) The longer the game is in developement the more time this salty mix of wild speculation, frustration, anger and hostility has time to ferment which leads to unrealistic expectations of what the game should be.

7) Game is released followed immediately by more anger and hostility as unrealistic expectations arent met meets buggy unfinished game.

8) The mod community takes over and begins a slow campaign of improvements and fixes. As the gamers can then pick and choose the mods that suit them best, anger and hostility slowly turns to joy.

9) Devs announce next installment in SH series ---- go to step #2

10) Releases of all subsequent games in the series are also met with feelings of nostalgia for the good ol days of Silent Hunter (insert number here) which was the best game ever made.

:D

Just a little levity brought to you by Deimos.

[TDK1044]

Development process of any Silent Hunter game.

1) Game is announced

2) There is much excitement in the community of what the new game promises.

3) Frustration grows as the devs release little or no new information.

4) Wild speculation ensues around the scraps of information that are released.

5) Wild speculation meets frustration which in turn generates anger and hostility.

6) The longer the game is in developement the more time this salty mix of wild speculation, frustration, anger and hostility has time to ferment which leads to unrealistic expectations of what the game should be.

7) Game is released followed immediately by more anger and hostility as unrealistic expectations arent met meets buggy unfinished game.

8) The mod community takes over and begins a slow campaign of improvements and fixes. As the gamers can then pick and choose the mods that suit them best, anger and hostility slowly turns to joy.

9) Devs announce next installment in SH series ---- go to step #2

10) Releases of all subsequent games in the series are also met with feelings of nostalgia for the good ol days of Silent Hunter (insert number here) which was the best game ever made.

:D

Just a little levity brought to you by Deimos.

:rotfl2:

[JScones]

But TDK, you are failing to consider the possibility that Ubisoft may well be trying to hide something. You keep saying that a review [sic] would reduce frustration and anger. Sure, if SH5 was indeed all bunny rabbits and teddy bears like you are obviously assuming.

But let's just pretend for one second (I know you like doing this) that the dynamic shadows were broken, the dynamic campaign was merely a supercharged scripting engine or the enemy AI was the equivalent of a frog on steroids. Do you think they'd want us to know that now? And do you think knowing that would make this a happy place?

Just imagine this place had they given Neal a beta copy of SH4 to preview...

Of course, on the other hand, if they do have nothing to hide, then I fail to see the harm in giving Neal a beta copy to preview - as you correctly state, that can only be a good thing.

And that's the perplexing thing. :hmmm:

[TDK1044]

But TDK, you are failing to consider the possibility that Ubisoft may well be trying to hide something. You keep saying that a review [sic] would reduce frustration and anger. Sure, if SH5 was indeed all bunny rabbits and teddy bears like you are obviously assuming.

But let's just pretend for one second (I know you like doing this) that the dynamic shadows were broken, the dynamic campaign was merely a supercharged scripting engine or the enemy AI was the equivalent of a frog on steroids. Do you think they'd want us to know that now? And do you think knowing that would make this a happy place?

Just imagine this place had they given Neal a beta copy of SH4 to preview...

Of course, on the other hand, if they do have nothing to hide, then I fail to see the harm in giving Neal a beta copy to preview.

And that's the perplexing thing. :hmmm:

As always, you make valid points, Sir. I just believe that this game will be better than it's poor promotion leads us to believe.

I may be wrong. Time will tell. :)

[JScones]

I just believe that this game will be better than it's poor promotion leads us to believe.
Man, I sooo hope you are right...seriously.

I think my 7 and 4 yr old daughters (heck, add in my 2 yr old as well) could market this thing better.

[AVGWarhawk]

The game is going to be great and more than anyone imagined. I truly believe the threads of discontent are all for nothing. :03:

[andycaccia]

Man, I sooo hope you are right...seriously.

I think my 7 and 4 yr old daughters (heck, add in my 2 yr old as well) could market this thing better.


hey, I guess somebody will buy it anyway... (2 or 3 maybe..:D)

I only hope it won't be as ba as the previews.

[SteamWake]

Reading through the threads of this Forum, so much could be accomplished if Ubisoft was to give Neal access to a full version of the game NOW.

While I would approve of giving Neal getting a preview copy I'm not so sure that "so much could be accomplished".

They plan to go to market in a month or two and the time to add features is past.

Furthermore I dont belive that Neal would ailenate the developers by an overly critical review.

[DEZ]

Generally speaking the quieter the developers are about a game the worse the game is.
Operation flashpoint Dragon Rising is a great example. Nothing is said apart from a few videos which are more like movies. No demo, "selected" reviewers given the game before release day. Result i think i gave that game around an hour before it was uninstalled.
Other games are much more open, i recently watch the first 10 minutes of the new AvP game on youtube. No idea if it will be any good but it does give you a good feel to the how the game will play
At the end of the day they are never going to release a version of the game here as if it does not go down well they are losing a fair wack of expected income, its way to much risk.
I have no idea is SH5 will be any good, but no information and the flashy film like videos are a worry.

[TDK1044]

In my opinion, the real problem is that Sales And Marketing handles the promotion of the product.

Those guys wouldn't know an AA/AF setting if it bit them in the ass. So when they release new screenshots, sometimes things like AA and Dynamic Shadows are included and sometimes they are not. This leads some people to believe that these elements are being photoshopped into the promo shots.

I think it must be incredibly frustrating for the Devs to see this happen. That's why I believe that a review could sort out once and for all questions regarding AA,AF, Dynamic Shadows, water texture, cloud texture, sub on rails etc.

[Feltan]

One thing for sure ... with no advance copies out there, I will wait to buy until someone reviews it!

Regards,
Feltan

[FIREWALL]

Hopefully Ubisoft will release at least one more video showing gameplay before the game hits the store shelves.

It would definitely help preorders.

[Adriatico]

In my opinion, the real problem is that Sales And Marketing handles the promotion of the product.

Those guys wouldn't know an AA/AF setting if it bit them in the ass. So when they release new screenshots, sometimes things like AA and Dynamic Shadows are included and sometimes they are not. This leads some people to believe that these elements are being photoshopped into the promo shots.

I think it must be incredibly frustrating for the Devs to see this happen. That's why I believe that a review could sort out once and for all questions regarding AA,AF, Dynamic Shadows, water texture, cloud texture, sub on rails etc.
It's not that simple TDK... It is "Iceberg" story:
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3700/icebergfo.jpg
You see 20% above surface (Marketing)... and 80% of SHV is below surface invisible (Devs)

I would say that Marketing is marginal in this story... as they started two months before release date... so there is obvious lack of interaction willingnes... an feed back consideration...
that lasted for 8-12 months... before marketing even stepped in this story

Marketing did not make that "periscope screen"... and marketing is not supposed to "reconsider" it after obvious community rejection...

And afterall... the relation betwen devs and marketing is certainly not that bad - that devs can't tell them "show them those d**n storm waves next weekend"

Ubi is not "kindergarden" organization... so marketing haven't created HAWX, Rainbow Six:Vegas 2 or GRAW2 "simulations"...

:know:

[FIREWALL]

When I posted HAWX as a simulation here I was almost ran out of town on a rail. :haha:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Dear Ubisoft,

Up your bum.

I remain yours everlastingly
Mr. Sir. Kapitanleutnant Esq. (est.1984)


OH MY GOD!!!!!

:rotfl2::rotfl2:

:salute:

[Nisgeis]

Those guys wouldn't know an AA/AF setting if it bit them in the ass. So when they release new screenshots, sometimes things like AA and Dynamic Shadows are included and sometimes they are not. This leads some people to believe that these elements are being photoshopped into the promo shots.

I think it must be incredibly frustrating for the Devs to see this happen.

What is it you are saying would be frustrating exactly? To see things like AA being photoshopped into a screenshot, or to see people say it is being photoshopped in?

[FIREWALL]

Another good thread that dissolved to sh!ts and giggles. :nope:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Just STFU and wait til its on your HDD!

Damn! the Stuff is Frozen and in Beta! the Marketing guys are ready to let it hiot the shelves and the presses are ready to get the empty CDs.

Other games experience has shown me that the Game is ready now. Nobody will alter any more code, and nobody will get an alpha or beta build for testing.

IT IS OVER!

Now is the hole between developping and Selling in the shops. So please stop bitching and whining, for chrissakes.

:shifty::down:

[TDK1044]

'And some fell on stony ground'........:DL

[FIREWALL]

Just STFU and wait til its on your HDD!

Damn! the Stuff is Frozen and in Beta! the Marketing guys are ready to let it hiot the shelves and the presses are ready to get the empty CDs.

Other games experience has shown me that the Game is ready now. Nobody will alter any more code, and nobody will get an alpha or beta build for testing.

IT IS OVER!

Now is the hole between developping and Selling in the shops. So please stop bitching and whining, for chrissakes.

:shifty::down:

Do's Neal know you've taken over ownership of HIS website and are telling everyone what to think or say ?

[urfisch]

Agree totally, Kev, and a review from Neal could also answer things like AA, AF, Dynamic Shadows, FPS on a mid range rig, how good does the water look? Does the sub feel like it's on rails? How much fun is the first person mode? What options can be enabled/disabled in the game? How does the AI feel?

None of the answers to these issues will prevent sales here, other than a very small percentage who have already decided not to buy it, but a good review would establish a 'glass half full' feeling in the community in my view. :)

remind the new fact, stated last autumn about the mysterious "COMMUNITY DEVELOPER" that was to come? seems as if the idea wasnt worked out. it simply didnt happened, that the community was involved at all. so we wont will get any specials, except for an interview, or a few screens. you are not alone, when asking for reasons...

this leads me to the opinion, to face the fact: IT IS NOT WISHED TO GET US INVOLVED. we where not the main target group, compared to the release of sh3 (or sh4). things have changed.

they knew, a lot of critism was to come, if we would have been involved from the beginning. we have our wishes, that where washed out since years of playing subsims. a big amount of experience grew. most players wouldnt have signed the concept of this game, as it is now.

and they simply do not wanted to create such a storm of bad publicity, even before the game is being developed. the answers are always simple, but frustrating. money makes games, not passion.


sad, but true.

:stare:

[FIREWALL]

remind the new fact, stated last autumn about the mysterious "COMMUNITY DEVELOPER" that was to come? seems as if the idea wasnt worked out. it simply didnt happened, that the community was involved at all. so we wont will get any specials, except for an interview, or a few screens. you are not alone, when asking for reasons...

this leads me to the opinion, to face the fact: IT IS NOT WISHED TO GET US INVOLVED. we where not the main target group, compared to the release of sh3 (or sh4). things have changed.

they knew, a lot of critism was to come, when we would have been involved from the beginning. we have our wishes, that where washed out since years of playing subsims. a big amount of experience grew. most players wouldnt have signed the concept of this game, as it is now.

and they simply do not wanted to create such a storm of bad publicity, even before the game is being developed. the answers are always simple, but frustrating. money makes games, not passion.


sad, but true.

:stare:

:up: #1 SH5 post of the day imho :salute:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Do's Neal know you've taken over ownership of HIS website and are telling everyone what to think or say ?



did i claim that?
what is written above (STFU...) can be interpreted as "i am tired of this negativity and looking forward to the release, no matter what."

graaar!
should not let this destroy my weekend mantra.
*heads off to photoshop, painting some Naked girls on some Yankee Bombers*

[FIREWALL]

did i claim that?
what is written above (STFU...) can be interpreted as "i am tired of this negativity and looking forward to the release, no matter what."

graaar!
should not let this destroy my weekend mantra.
*heads off to photoshop, painting some Naked girls on some Yankee Bombers*

If your tired of others posts why not take a break and play some sims ?

It beats telling everyone you don't agree with to STFU.

[THE_MASK]

Maybe the game is not finished yet ?

[Snestorm]

Maybe the game is not finished yet ?

Obviousely.
And that's the way they expect to sell it?!

[FIREWALL]

Obviousely.
And that's the way the expect to sell it?!

Just to refresh some memorys. SH4 wasn't even playable the day it hit the grubby hands of the Preorder people.

Patch#1 was released the same day.

For those that know how to work the archives it's there.

[urfisch]

Maybe the game is not finished yet ?

not finished? be sure about that!

:haha:

as firewall said, even when they "finished" the release version, the game will not be finished until its patched AND modded...

just remember...its hard, but its reality.

[THE_MASK]

not finished? be sure about that!

:haha:

as firewall said, even when they "finished" the release version, the game will not be finished until its patched AND modded...

just remember...its hard, but its reality.
Yes .

[rascal101]

By jove I think you hit the nail on the head :yeah:



Development process of any Silent Hunter game.

1) Game is announced

2) There is much excitement in the community of what the new game promises.

3) Frustration grows as the devs release little or no new information.

4) Wild speculation ensues around the scraps of information that are released.

5) Wild speculation meets frustration which in turn generates anger and hostility.

6) The longer the game is in developement the more time this salty mix of wild speculation, frustration, anger and hostility has time to ferment which leads to unrealistic expectations of what the game should be.

7) Game is released followed immediately by more anger and hostility as unrealistic expectations arent met meets buggy unfinished game.

8) The mod community takes over and begins a slow campaign of improvements and fixes. As the gamers can then pick and choose the mods that suit them best, anger and hostility slowly turns to joy.

9) Devs announce next installment in SH series ---- go to step #2

10) Releases of all subsequent games in the series are also met with feelings of nostalgia for the good ol days of Silent Hunter (insert number here) which was the best game ever made.

:D

Just a little levity brought to you by Deimos.

[JScones]

In my opinion, the real problem is that Sales And Marketing handles the promotion of the product.

Those guys wouldn't know an AA/AF setting if it bit them in the ass. So when they release new screenshots, sometimes things like AA and Dynamic Shadows are included and sometimes they are not. This leads some people to believe that these elements are being photoshopped into the promo shots.

I think it must be incredibly frustrating for the Devs to see this happen. That's why I believe that a review could sort out once and for all questions regarding AA,AF, Dynamic Shadows, water texture, cloud texture, sub on rails etc.
Who do you think marketing gets the screenshots from. ;)

Just STFU and wait til its on your HDD!

Damn! the Stuff is Frozen and in Beta! the Marketing guys are ready to let it hiot the shelves and the presses are ready to get the empty CDs.

Other games experience has shown me that the Game is ready now. Nobody will alter any more code, and nobody will get an alpha or beta build for testing.

IT IS OVER!

Now is the hole between developping and Selling in the shops. So please stop bitching and whining, for chrissakes.

:shifty::down:
You know, there is one very simple solution that will make you a very happy man...stop reading the forum if it bugs you so much. Much easier to change oneself than expect all those around you to change. :up:

Otherwise, STFU and stop telling everyone else how to act.:yeah:

[Nisgeis]

What is it you are saying would be frustrating exactly? To see things like AA being photoshopped into a screenshot, or to see people say it is being photoshopped in?

You may have missed this TDK?

[HundertzehnGustav]

Who do you think marketing gets the screenshots from. ;)


You know, there is one very simple solution that will make you a very happy man...stop reading the forum if it bugs you so much. Much easier to change oneself than expect all those around you to change. :up:

Otherwise, STFU and stop telling everyone else how to act.:yeah:

J...
I think that is effectively what i will do. I think i have a small clue whats going on, and i will keep my thoughts to myself.
And share the stored energy with some girl. Thats far more positive than to rant here.

[TDK1044]

You may have missed this TDK?

Hi Nisgeis, Sorry, yes I did miss your post.

I think the frustration comes from members here seeing some screenshots with elements like Dynamic Shadows and some screenshots without them. This leads to unnecessary suspicion.

A review could answer a lot of questions and would not have any negative impact on sales in my opinion.

[Adriatico]

did i claim that?
what is written above (STFU...) can be interpreted as "i am tired of this negativity... "


So what are we supposed to do? To sing and dance - for our beloved simulator being turned into SH5: Command and Conquer ?

[Mud]

So what are we supposed to do? To sing and dance - for our beloved simulator being turned into SH5: Command and Conquer ?

I just bought farm simulator 2009 gold edition ................. honest :rotfl2:
Now you know how much I'm bored atm hehe

Mud

[Nisgeis]

Hi Nisgeis, Sorry, yes I did miss your post.

I think the frustration comes from members here seeing some screenshots with elements like Dynamic Shadows and some screenshots without them. This leads to unnecessary suspicion.

A review could answer a lot of questions and would not have any negative impact on sales in my opinion.

Thanks TDK,

From the screenshots I have seen, there seem to be certain PARTS that have dynamic shadows and others that don't. It's all a bit strange - one shot, a U-Boat deck gun has a shadow, the next it's the conning tower. It's pretty bizarre. I'm leaning toward game engine oddity. By the way, if there is no AA, then WTF?

As for a review, the quiet is what is worrying people... An honest review would be good.

[d@rk51d3]

Could all be just one big April 1'st in the making. :hmmm::D

[Reece]

What if our fears are found to be true and the game will be crap? :88)The very fact that UBI doesn't give Neal the game to review supports this view!:-?

[Mikhayl]

After the ADD kids, the can't-live-without-it-one-more-day adults :D
Game will be finished in about a month, we'll have reviews then...

[Adriatico]

Reading through the threads of this Forum, so much could be accomplished if Ubisoft was to give Neal access to a full version of the game NOW.

There is an understandable mixture of disappointment, frustration and anger in the air at the moment, and I believe a lot of that could be significantly reduced by Neal having review access to the latest version of the game.

Come on Ubisoft. You have known Neal for many years. You know that you can trust him. Allow him to do your company a big favor, by addressing the concerns of many here regarding the latest incarnation of a franchise that this Forum has strongly supported over the years.

Let him review the game!

It seems that our voice is getting a stereo transmision:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/2071000528

:hmmm:

[urfisch]

The very fact that UBI doesn't give Neal the game to review supports this view!:-?

nothing to add here...