So which way do you lean? [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

GoldenRivet

01-19-10, 09:13 PM

Think about it guys.

Though upon initial release we wont get the Type II or the IX or XXI subs.

what we get in exchange is a Type VII sub that is 3D modeled and simulated from the forward tubes to the stern tubes. - that has been a BIG TICKET ITEM on the subsim wish list for a long time for a lot of players.

secondly, though the stock campaign ends in 1943... i think ubisoft has a strategic overall reason for doing this.

Dan "The Man" has said himself that SHV was made to be MORE modder friendly. Just like every subsim we have seen, SHV will grow and mature through modification to the liking of virtually everyone here!

whenever the devs close a hatch, they open a MBT vent! (or whenver they close a door they open a window if you prefer)

another BIG TICKET ITEM on a lot of subsimmers wish lists have been full crew with the option to interact with the crew members - even if on some limited scale.

i am encouraged by the interview with members of the dev team as they have indicated that this exact item has been implemented.

think about it people!!!

think of all the things SH3 and SH4 have that they didnt come with stock :rock::rock::rock:

playable surface ships, AI subs, Kiel Canal, hundreds of added surface ships, tweaked AI

the list goes ever onward.

previous installments of the Silent Hunter series were not without their bugs, errors, mistakes, overlooked items etc...

SHV will have problems and wont meet everyones taste.

at first anyway.

but the Dev team IS looking out for us in the long run.

Have faith in your dev team, though sometimes it might seem like they have ulterior motives - they are working for you!

Snestorm

01-19-10, 09:22 PM

Working for me?
I don't think so.

SH5 is not fit to polish SH3's boots.

As it stands now, Ubisoft can keep SH5, and I can keep my money.

GoldenRivet

01-19-10, 09:23 PM

Working for me?
I don't think so.

SH5 is not fit to polish SH3's boots.

As it stands now, Ubisoft can keep SH5, and I can keep my money.

fair enough,

but i dont want to see you playing it this time next year when the smash hit supermods are released.

:up:

karamazovnew

01-19-10, 09:33 PM

Just one thing pisses me off.... The Q&A on the Ubi forum. They should've announced these "features" since September when we were still picking our jaws from the floor after the first trailer! Instead they told us to use our own toilets, ffs!

Otherwise, I'm still game. The things that bother me most are the Dive teleport thing and the crew disappearing below decks. On the other hand you wouldn't be able to remain on deck to see them. Still, I would've loved to see them descent down the stairs and take their places.

Mikhayl

01-19-10, 09:36 PM

That's the spirit :up:

Onkel Neal

01-19-10, 09:39 PM

what we get in exchange is a Type VII sub that is 3D modeled and simulated from the forward tubes to the stern tubes. - that has been a BIG TICKET ITEM on the subsim wish list for a long time for a lot of players.

Very true! Why do so many people forget that after SH3, one of the most popular wish items for SH4 was a fully explorable sub? :hmmm:

misfitdreamer

01-19-10, 09:42 PM

im with goldenrivet here 100%. i think the developers are doing a very impressive job with overhauling the game engine and making alll the new features work into the game. i'm excited. and from what i have seen, though it may not include everything we want, the games got alot of finesse. im even impressed with how lifelike the crew animations are (the sonar man at rest while cruising on the surface comes to mind.) sh5, for what it is, seems to be very polished in appearance.

and you know, ubisoft doesn't have to make another silent hunter for us. they just know that there are people out there, like us! who love subsims.

Otherwise, I'm still game. The things that bother me most are the Dive teleport thing and the crew disappearing below decks. On the other hand you wouldn't be able to remain on deck to see them. Still, I would've loved to see them descent down the stairs and take their places.

while i admit that's a moot point, i really think that those features could cause problems for the game. i mean.. how fast the sub submerges is therefore dependent on how fast your crew AND YOURSELF get down the ladder. might be kinda hard to squeeze down the conning tower all together.

:rock:

Snestorm

01-19-10, 09:43 PM

fair enough,

but i dont want to see you playing it this time next year when the smash hit supermods are released.

:up:

That's fair.
The only mod I have on SH3 is Wolfies SubTweek, so I can have my torpedoes in the correct tubes.

cappy70

01-19-10, 09:58 PM

So very true,,I remember waaaaaaay back,,(see my join date:arrgh!:) how this " take-a-walk-through-the-sub" was on everybodies wishlist and here it is finally coming. That is a MEGA HUGE thing for the SH-series. in spite of talk about the campaign length and or/any other issue.
Smile, be happy....:salute:

THE_MASK

01-19-10, 10:01 PM

Good post , the countdown is on . Should be some interesting reading on the forum until release LOL .

Ducimus

01-19-10, 10:11 PM

From the sounds of things, all SH5 is, is Das boot the video game. Yeah sure an fully rendered interior is fantastic, but i find that for most of my gameplay in this series as so far, 90% of the time is spent in the nav map and periscope or TBT/UZO, swapping between the two via hotkey. A fully rendered interior to my style of play is a joy short lived.

So you have more graphics, more roleplaying, and more das boot, but what you don't have is more simulation. Technical aspects that are missing that should be included, furthered, or refined. So gameplay wise, aside from the campaign that sounds like it wants to rewrite history, it seems like its going to be identical to SH3 and SH4. Couple that with the war "ending" in 43, and a total absence of my favorite uboat types , ( let alone my preferred theater and subs ), my verdict is:

Meh. Not interested.

If it at least had a type 9C, i'd probably sing a different tune.

Carotio

01-19-10, 10:41 PM

Well, I was positive for a very long time, but...

Anyone remember this interview?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyS9X3Kggvo
The interview is uploaded to youtube back in December, the 17th

Around 1:40, Dan talks about Operation Drumbeat just outside New York.

Let's have a look at uboat.net then:
http://www.uboat.net/ops/drumbeat.htm

Now, howcome did one get the feeling that IX boats would be part of SH5 then... :hmmm:

YES, I think the full interior is a BIG step FORWARD, but I also think not adding the types from SH3: II, IX & XXI is a BIG step BACKWARDS.
And starting to make speculations now, whether the customers have to pay extra, and by download no less, for these extra types, without clarification from the dev team right from the start, will of course lead to unsatisfaction, and even worse if it's true.
I have been through numerous forums of different languages, and I have seen plenty of other people criticising this important lack of content.

Okay, so they may make the early part as perfect as possible, and add the last part of the war in an add on, so they get more time to make that part perfect too. Fair enough that they postpone the XXI till then, and all that other late-war technology. And sure, okay then, I would pay for such an add on.
But the II and IX types belong to the early part just as much as the type VII, and they should definitely have those types in the game from the start before it's released, and if not, they should at least add them as part of free patches. And not enforce it as pay downloads. That won't be fair.
And they should acknowledge that a large group of users demand these types, and thus interact more with us. Yes, I said us. Again, I'll refer to the poll, which was made here: we want all the types.

So clarification from the dev team is kindly requested. :yep:

Now since it's night here in Europe, and the devs won't answer anytime soon anyway, I'm off to bed and won't be bothering you anymore anytime soon....

GoldenRivet

01-19-10, 10:44 PM

@carotio...

Type VII boats did in fact operate in American Waters for Operation Drumbeat.

several of them in fact.

Carotio

01-19-10, 10:50 PM

@carotio...

Type VII boats did in fact operate in American Waters for Operation Drumbeat.

several of them in fact.

Maybe, but still it's the IX boats who comes into mind for the long-range patrols, which American waters are...

Snestorm

01-19-10, 10:59 PM

@carotio...

Type VII boats did in fact operate in American Waters for Operation Drumbeat.

several of them in fact.

Sorry.
Operation Drumbeat: 5 boats.
U66 IXC
U109 IXB
U123 IXB
U125 IXC
U130 IXC

Not a VII in the lot.

Reece

01-19-10, 11:06 PM

I have decided I'm leaning toward the negative side of SHV :cry:

Ducimus

01-19-10, 11:07 PM

http://www.uboat.net/ops/drumbeat.htm
This may surprise many of you but Operation Drumbeat really was just the inital wave of 5 large U-boats, Paukenschlag was meant to be a fast and surprise attack on the eastern seaboard of the US, and it succeeded as such. Then there were several other "waves" of U-boats that went into American waters but those don't really count as Drumbeaters.

Task Force

01-19-10, 11:18 PM

yea, im gonna have to go with reece with this one... SH5 dosent look to be as good as it could have been, I feel that it will be abit like most games, fun for acouple of times, but loose its fun after awhile, AKA, wont be as big of a Wow, whats gonna happen feeling as in SH3...

Reece

01-19-10, 11:22 PM

No type II or IX boats
Game ends in 1943
Dynamic Campaign appears to be scripted ** See update below **
No Rough seas
Have heard thunder but seen no lightning (SHIV bug)
Looking at the latest video there is no dynamic shadows.
Other question come to mind like flotilla's, are they selectable, are we able to play in the Atlantic or is it just in the Med!:hmmm:
I admit they have added some nice eye candy but important area's have been taken out, starting to look like an arcade game rather than a simulator!:oops::doh:
I hope some of the above concerns come to light soon!:-?

UPDATE:

Originally Posted by TarJak:

Because the "Dynamic" campaign sounds more like a scripted campaign than a SH3/4 sandbox type environment, thereby limiting its replayability.
Elanaiba said:
Let's stop that right there.

The campaign will be much more dynamic (not to mention moddable in a very powerful way) than SH3/4. (BTW those were not dynamic, but random)

People keep turning words around trying to find proof that their greatest fears come true: Scripted Campaign.

Yes, you have a crew. Yes, there's a storyline to it.

But the campaign is dynamic and that's the end of it :) I wouldn't have it any other way.Reece said:
Are you saying that there is no random elements in the game? we have to follow a set out scripted events? can we choose the flotilla we want and patrol area's of our choice?:hmmm:Elanaiba said:
Yes, there's random in the game.

Yes, you can choose your patrol area, we can't put walls in the middle of the Atlantic.

Later Dan quoted TarJak: To get access to ANY historic port flotilla that you choose, you have to mod it. You will have several starting points that we have chosen, but those are easily modable too.This sounds a little better, but only if modded it seems!:hmmm:

Task Force

01-19-10, 11:24 PM

yea, I would have to agree, appears the modders will have alot of work. I get this odd feeling it will be like ETWs, American revolution campaign... In chapters...

Snestorm

01-19-10, 11:44 PM

This is my side of the issue also.

dcb

01-20-10, 12:10 AM

Let me join the club, please.

Reece

01-20-10, 12:15 AM

Let me join the club, please.It's unfortunate to have to say "Welcome!":oops:

kiwi_2005

01-20-10, 12:18 AM

No type II or IX boats
Game ends in 1943
Dynamic Campaign appears to be scripted
No Rough seas
Have heard thunder but seen no lightning (SHIV bug)
Looking at the latest video there is no dynamic shadows.
Other question come to mind like flotilla's, are they selectable, are we able to play in the Atlantic or is it just in the Med!:hmmm:
I admit they have added some nice eye candy but important area's have been taken out, starting to look like an arcade game rather than a simulator!:oops::doh:
I hope some of the above concerns come to light soon!:-?

Game ends in 1943 :o My crystal ball tells me an addon will come out that unlocks 1943 onwards with new boats.

No rough seas. :o If this is true it will truly suck for us 'external view' players.

Dynamic Campaign appears to be scripted. :o. I can live with that (barely) i will treat the game like a role playing game. Questing in the Atlantic!

no dynamic shadows. :hmmm: Not really a problem for me. I think.

nice eye candy :rock: lol

Will i still buy SH5? 'sigh' yeah lol

conus00

01-20-10, 01:16 AM

I'm with you Reece. Here is what I posted in another thread:
Even with beautiful graphics, full 3D interior, excellent RPG-like crew management etc., the scripted campaign is gonna put a huge dent on the re-playability. The last thing I wish for is SH series to turn into CoD series: it sure looks pretty, it has gripping action and effects but it is always THE SAME.

The SH3 has been installed on my PC since the date it was released and has never left my hard drive. I can finish one career and almost immediately start another one, knowing for SURE that there is going to be something I have not seen before....

I'm very afraid that SHV will not provide the same....

I really, REALLY wish to be wrong...

conus00

01-20-10, 01:22 AM

I'm afraid I'm with Reece on this one: sure SHV will have bunch of steps forward but overall, compared to SH3, it's just huge leap BACK!

I will probably buy it anyway but am I happy about it? Definitely no!

Reece

01-20-10, 01:39 AM

IanC

01-20-10, 02:05 AM

eh, you guys want a little cheese with that whine? :O:

THE_MASK

01-20-10, 02:14 AM

You are trying to compare apples with oranges . Its a new direction by the looks of it . Its obviously not a simulation like SH3/4 . Its a first person history lesson .

msalama

01-20-10, 02:26 AM

Hmmm... as an incurable optimist all I'm saying so far is that the devs said the bugga will be more moddable than its predecessors. And if so I'll probably end up buying it _and_ a new computer to boot to see what's really customizable - and to be able to run it at all actually, since this POS current computer of mine most likely won't! S**t, if you can't play it then just tinker it to death is what I'm sayin' :yeah:

JScones

01-20-10, 02:59 AM

Have faith in your dev team, though sometimes it might seem like they have ulterior motives - they are working for you!
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::har::haha:
Umm, they are working for Ubisoft Romania. If they were working for me we'd have Type II's, Type IX's, Wolfpacks etc and so on.

You are trying to compare apples with oranges . Its a new direction by the looks of it . Its obviously not a simulation like SH3/4 . Its a first person history lesson .
If I want a history lesson, I'll read a book. ;)

BulSoldier

01-20-10, 03:10 AM

yes but the book is cheaper, contains much more information and majority of gamers wont buy it.

JScones

01-20-10, 03:11 AM

Are you suggesting a lack of immersion, perhaps? :hmmm: :haha:

JScones

01-20-10, 03:38 AM

For the record, I'm on this side.

IanC: Would you like bread for your spam?

THE_MASK

01-20-10, 03:42 AM

Im on this side until the modders have had a go .

01-20-10, 03:44 AM

What bothers me about sh5 is campaign till 1943 when all fun and challenge just starts.
I hoped that all new Ailed technologies would be simulated in sh5 but i see no progress was made here since sh3.:timeout:

msxyz

01-20-10, 03:57 AM

Scripted campaign + Only one type of sub available = limited replayability

Type IXs, despite less numerous, played an important role, especially early in the war. I'm very disappointed by the decision to leave them out to concentrate on type VIIs only

The sub type with the highest kill ratio per unit is IXB, and they were operative during the 'happy days' of uboot warfare .

Wreford-Brown

01-20-10, 04:01 AM

I'm with you, Reece. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but SH5 as it currently stands seems to be an unfinished product.

Boris

01-20-10, 04:07 AM

Count me in as being officially on the optimist side :smug:

Adriatico

01-20-10, 04:26 AM

1) I have no problems with 1943 ending... 44/45 Criegsmarine Atlantic effort was "pointless" survival game - with no influence on Allied control of Atlantic...
In fact 44/45 Kriegsmarine was just another problem (one more headache) to Reich... where to hide it and how to protect it from B-24, Mosquitos, P-47,...
By mid 1944 Kriegsmarine could not not defend itself, let alone Reich...

(Even when playing original Il-2 Sturmovik, as our example of great sim, my Luftwaffe campaign faded in 1943...)

2) Haveing only VIIc is just normal thing: with fully detailed "live" interior - it would be out of reality to expect the same things for TypeIX... it would take another 12 months - to create and polish that kind of project (even more complicated)

Just my opinion...:up:

3) BAD thing would be - no dynamic shadows ??? I would kindly ask this klub not to use term "eyecandy" till we see that feature...:down::nope::cry:

4) Windy sea and storm - it is out of question... it is just not displayed, I guess, because it remained at SH4 level (no progress to display)
:hmmm:

It would be harakiri of Ubisoft to release only calm weather, marketing suicide...

zulus

01-20-10, 04:30 AM

I'm with you, Reece. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but SH5 as it currently stands seems to be an unfinished product.

History just keeps repeating. SH3 wasn't finished enough and was a paradise for bugs. SH4 was never finished. Time for SH5 to meet it's predecessors destiny.. You can guess it's twisted UBI's signature in creating "simulations"
Only one thing keeps my mood up: In modders I trust!

zulus

01-20-10, 04:40 AM

I also found a golden crumb in this pile of ashes. It's - Nice Graphics..

01-20-10, 04:46 AM

Reece

01-20-10, 08:55 AM

Note: See update in post #1

Carotio

01-20-10, 08:59 AM

I'm glad this thread was started as opposed to the other. I did consider to do it last evening, but hey, as long as it's done.

I'm joining this club too. EDIT: the negative club.

If they focus on early war, they cannot exclude the types II and IX, it's just not right.:nope:

AVGWarhawk

01-20-10, 09:01 AM

Nah, its all good with what is created in SHV. I'm guessing we will be lookin at some DLC. Much fun to be had.

Don't scuttle the boat!

;)

GertFroebe_neu

01-20-10, 09:08 AM

Without the other uboat types and the end of the game 1943 (with a weird explaination from the DEVs) I will join the negative side too. I thought with POV, cool graphics and great new features SH5 could be the answer for my prays. But I am sooooo disappointed right now.

Installed SH3 with GWX again.

AVGWarhawk

01-20-10, 09:17 AM

Personally I think all are jumping the gun. This edition will be ground breaking if you ask me. I'm leaning on the postive side because the developers have put in much study, time, effort, blood, sweat and tears over the years. As a result, I trust in what they do and decide to add or take away. :yeah: Furthermore, I truly sense some DLC or another disk with additional content. :03:

Uber Gruber

01-20-10, 09:22 AM

I think its absolutely ground breaking, a wonderfull achievement and proof that both UBI and the DEVS are top of their league. The graphics are simply oustanding.

The idea of ending in 1943 is sheer genius as it allows modders to re-invent the last 2 years of the war.

The interaction with the crew is fascinating. I can see myself now listening to the grumpy WO as he recounts the tale of his broken heart left in Kiel, and then replying from a list of pre-prepared responses. Every patrol will now be different due to this one feature alone.

The VII interface is a work of art and surely something the germans were secretly working on themselves but failed to deliver before the end of the war.

Thumbs all the way UP for this one....we are so damned lucky to have UBI and the DEVS working day and night to achieve such splendor.

Thankyou, thankyou and thankyou :rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::r ock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock::roc k::rock::rock::rock::rock::rock:

Uber Gruber

01-20-10, 09:25 AM

I just cannot wait to get this baby, hell i'm gonna rush out now and pre-order 20 copies to give to all my family and friends at christmas. Well done UBI, yet another fantastic achievement.

I am simply not worthy to even utter your name with my pathetic mortal breath. Please forgive us for ever doubting you, and thankyou forever and ever.:salute::woot::shucks::yeah::D:):DL:up::rock: :|\\:sunny:

martes86

01-20-10, 09:35 AM

I'm with you, Reece. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but SH5 as it currently stands seems to be an unfinished product.

It will be unfinished if the promised features are not in, and the sim is full of bugs. Otherwise, it's a product with a design you don't like, not an unfinished product, because it seems like it's gonna be finished, just not the way you'd like it to be. And there's a big difference in that. ;)

martes86

01-20-10, 09:36 AM

I'm on the positive side, for the moment. I'll definitely say neg or pos once I test the sim myself.

Cheers :rock:

Mikhayl

01-20-10, 09:42 AM

To the people bitching about dynamic shadows, have you even watched the damn trailer on the SH5 website? All the crewmen project shadows on the interior model and on themselves.
The trailer for the dynamic campaign is made of bits of footage not necessarily taken at the same time. Some early screenshots of the sub showed no dynamic shadows, later screenshots showed dynamic shadows.
On this screenshot, the conning tower and deck gun project a shadow on the deck:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1296/75045028.jpg

mookiemookie

01-20-10, 09:51 AM

I'm cautiously optimistic. While I am disappointed that they've excluded the Type IX's (Don't cry for me, Freetown! :wah::cry:) I really do hope that they execute their vision of the Type VII very well.

One of the common themes I'm seeing is that they're keeping it as open as they can for modders....if they give us a powerful platform to tweak and massage into the subsim we all want, that's a great thing.

Don't worry too much about what the stock game will have or won't have. How many of you play stock SH3/SH4? The modders are who truly finish the game. Now, "should that be the case?" is another debate for another thread. So long as Dan and company provide us the platform, the very very talented folks we have here will do amazing things with it.

Just remember what Dan said at the 08 Subsim meetup: "Even the development team has no idea how the modders have done some of things they've done"

Galanti

01-20-10, 09:57 AM

what we get in exchange is a Type VII sub that is 3D modeled and simulated from the forward tubes to the stern tubes. - that has been a BIG TICKET ITEM on the subsim wish list for a long time for a lot of players.

If it's a Type VII study sim that fully - or close to it - models all the interior workings of that particular class ala Falcon4, then I'll be somewhat optimistic (Although that periscope interface has got to go, i've developed hemorrhoids just looking at it).

However, I'm starting to suspect that the first-person tour through the sub is largely cosmetic. Yes, the interior may be an esthatic work of art - and certainly looks to be at this point - but is the actual operation of the boat modelled in greater fidelity than previous installments? will the player be able to do all the quirky little things that kaleuns did to get the most out of their boat and crew (i.e the oft-requested feature of deciding how many engines to put on battery charge)?

codmander

01-20-10, 10:08 AM

buying it ...yes :hmmm:
crew... yes looks great:yeah:
graphic...yes looks good:)
roaming the north sea in my typeII in 39 guess not:cry:
roaming off cape cod mass in my type IX in 42 guess not:cry:
snorkeling off norway in 44 guess not:cry:
hopefully add ons :03:

Kapitanleutnant

01-20-10, 10:09 AM

How many of you play stock SH3/SH4?

This is a very good point.

cawimmer430

01-20-10, 10:21 AM

No IX!? :damn:

I just hope to God that those damn software bugs are fixed before the game is released. The Silent Hunter series seems to have a history of bug-infested software. :down:

Redwine

01-20-10, 10:42 AM

Sailor Steve

01-20-10, 10:49 AM

What I'm loving is this ongoing rant about the campaign. They have mentioned scripted elements. Way back in SH1 the campaign was completely random, but there were scripted elements - photo recon missions, lifeguard missions. SH4 brought this back very nicely. Sure, some of the missions weren't historically accurate, but they made that easily moddable.

My point is that they are promising more of that, with a campaign that is truly dynamic in that the enemy will change his strategies based on what we do, with the overall randomness still included. They have never once said that the campaign itself would be scripted, and every single complaint in that area is a complaint derived from your own imagination, not from anything anyone on the development team has said.

As for the lack of other boats; yes, that is my complaint too. However, given that people (not me) have been demanding full interiors and more interactive crews for several years now, and given that creating a complete interior for each type plus designing the crew members so they work within the confines of each particular type without walking into or through walls, creating everything needed for every type of boat could take months, if not years, and they don't have that kind of time.

Martes86 is exactly right: I'm complaining, but not because what the devs are doing is wrong, or unfinished, or anything like that. I'm complaining because I wanted something different that what I'm being given. Too bad for me, but that's the way it goes sometimes. I'll still buy it.

IanC

01-20-10, 11:02 AM

About the campaign fears, this is what elanaiba posted in the sticky;

Originally Posted by elanaiba
Let's stop that right there.

The campaign will be much more dynamic (not to mention moddable in a very powerful way) than SH3/4. (BTW those were not dynamic, but random)

People keep turning words around trying to find proof that their greatest fears come true: Scripted Campaign.

Yes, you have a crew. Yes, there's a storyline to it.

But the campaign is dynamic and that's the end of it :DL I wouldn't have it any other way.

AVGWarhawk

01-20-10, 11:19 AM

danurve

01-20-10, 12:46 PM

I am generaly optimistic about SHV.

I was thinking after the recation UBI got from SHIV that might have been the end of the line. And soon we'll have a generation that could probably care less about WWII games unless its something of a FPS. So thanks goes out to UBI dev's for continuing with the series. Hope I'm not disapointed.

simsurfer

01-20-10, 12:56 PM

simsurfer

01-20-10, 12:57 PM

btw, add me to this side of the fence, I dont like unfinished games.

GoldenRivet

01-20-10, 01:01 PM

At this point in time, given the release of information recently, where do you lean in regards to Silent Hunter V?

Before you answer

Consider all if the positive points you enjoy

Consider all of the negative points you despise

Consider whether or not you think Silent Hunter 5 shows promise in the long run

Dowly

01-20-10, 01:07 PM

No clear opinion yet. I'll wait and see how it is once it is released.

BulSoldier

01-20-10, 02:58 PM

I wanted to put that poll, but never managed to do so.Anyway i am leaning towards the negative side.
In long run it may or if moders work hard is going to be much better than sh3 but that is yet to happen.

ichso

01-20-10, 03:00 PM

I'm leaning towards positive because of how the dynamic campaign. The periscope interface is still ugly but thats not the biggest issue to deal with by modding.
I'm rather exicted about what fine differences they have to offer within the multiple type VIIs. I'm just really hoping that the scenario gets stretched to '45 later on.

Of course we can't really tell about the positives and negatives in those changes until the game is out. But my expectations are rather positive. Maybe it was time for some different approach to the series anyways.

Carotio

01-20-10, 03:08 PM

People keep turning words around trying to find proof that their greatest fears come true: Scripted Campaign.

Well, I'm not complaining about the campaign, it has been cleared out that it will be dynamic.
But sadly, it has also been cleared out that it will be a VII simulator in the early years only, and that's just not good enough.
I can live with the late war being added later in an add on aka DVD, but not as download content only. If they make that part perfect, that is.
But if this is the early war, they cannot simply skip the types II and IX, which was just as regular as the VII type.

And that part: I have not yet seen any positive comments from the devs or any other ubisoft representatives that they will add II and IX before releasing the game.

You can call me whining all you want. I have been very openminded and positive up untill I read that interview. But the 2/9 & 1943 issue is just too much a provocation from Ubisoft. I don't blame the devs, make no mistake here. They're probably just doing what they're ordered to do, but they can well pass on the message to the management that a lot of users are complaining about missing sub types and no late-war, and then make a clear statement what their plans regarding this is. Which we then can read and consider as we please.

JU_88

01-20-10, 03:22 PM

Voted no opinion, but the truth is that im dead in the middle,
Im very dissapointed about the missing years and missing boats from the previous games, but im also very happy with what IS confimed to be in the game also (Ai subs, excellent sounding campaign that reacts to the player actions etc.)

So- dead center for me....

Buddahaid

01-20-10, 03:29 PM

Sounds like a personal question. :D Anyway, I'm looking forward to a change in the same old format and will just have to see how it feels. It may even be a moot point as I may even like SH3 and SH4 better when the new rig gets home and I can turn all the features to max.

Letum

01-20-10, 03:35 PM

Whats all this about no rough seas?

Randomizer

01-20-10, 03:39 PM

With a glass-half-full thread and a glass-half-empty thread there is no place for one who may have grown indifferent to SH5. Now that the quantity of blood flowing from the scuppers has been reduced somewhat, think I will post $0.02 CAD here.

For those who are going to make lemonade out of might turn out to be a hard-core subsimmer's lemon, best of luck. Here's hoping that Stock makes you happy and that the incredibly skilled modders out there can improve it even further.

For those on the opposite side of the fence, some of you really need to lose the hate. UBISoft has evidently created an SH5 that fits into their business plan and none of us here have any reason to take it as a personal afront. The level of righteous indignation and percieved entitlement shown by some of the posts around here is really comical.

For myself this new model SH5 is really "Das-boot, the game of the movie of the novel" and is far too limited and selective to have any real historical value regardless of the sentiments expressed in the interviews. But it appears to be pretty to look at and who knows, maybe CGI soup and cutting boards are no longer available after spring 1943 due to wartime shortages, hence that particular cutoff date.

There has been much speculation on added DLC however if that is coming then it might mean some hard-coded issues that may not be modded out. It is entirely likely that UBISoft will not offer up for sale anything that might be created for free by the modding community. In any case, that issue is for the future one way or the other and could well be no issue at all.

I intend to pass on SH5, at least until it expands from 1943 through 1945. SH3+GWX and SH4+TMO+RSRD now have their usable lives extended into the foreseeable future and given all the past (and ongoing) efforts expended on them by the many modders out there, that is probably as it should be. Hopefully SH5 becomes as worthy.

Good Hunting - at least through to Black May

capthelm

01-20-10, 03:41 PM

Sailor Steve

01-20-10, 03:43 PM

You think we could get Neal to conduct another interview with the Devs to alert them to the fact that we ant the entire campaign enabled into the game and we want more boats in game as well. With more boats comes new weapons as well.
They already know what people are saying. Some of them are regular posters on these boards, and read all of this, including your very post.

We forced UBI to delay SHIII, why not version 5?
That was because SH2 was not so good, and SH3 promised to include the very worst part of that. Because of the difficulties in creating a truly dynamic campaign and getting the crew to respond properly to the different interiors, the could take some time. How long are you willing to wait? Another year? Two? Three?

dcb

01-20-10, 03:44 PM

Well, I'm pessimistic by nature and I voted for the "dark side,":D... but I'd love to be proven I was wrong, when the game gets released.

HanSolo78

01-20-10, 03:51 PM

For me it is the good side...

I am curious about the latest developement and awaiting a new different, better gameplay. (If all things that have been promised work like the should by the devs)

nikimcbee

01-20-10, 03:54 PM

I say positive, but it's hard to tell until it's released and the bugs come out. Hopefully they aren't too bad.:salute: Just keep up the good/hard work:yeah:.

Mikhayl

01-20-10, 03:55 PM

Positive as well, and I already know the first thing I'll do once I get the game in the mail: shut down internet and enjoy the game a few weeks before all the whining on the forums spoils it all :)

dcb

01-20-10, 03:59 PM

I already know the first thing I'll do once I get the game in the mail: shut down internet and enjoy the game

And what if it requires Internet connection to play?:D

AVGWarhawk

01-20-10, 03:59 PM

Man, I read the thread topic and I thought this was a sexually oriented question. :hmmm:

I'm positive the game will be great.

Mikhayl

01-20-10, 04:01 PM

And what if it requires Internet connection to play?:D

Ok, I have nothing against anything that's been anounced so far but THAT would suck :)

Buddahaid

01-20-10, 04:02 PM

And what if it requires Internet connection to play?:D

You're reading this.

Webster

01-20-10, 04:03 PM

as i expected, there is a lot i am dissappointed to read and there is also

a lot about sh5 that i am very happy to read about.

give it a few more reads guys and do it with an open mind

and you will see they are giving us a very very moddable game :rock:

is it perect? nope, it is tragic? nope, will i buy it? yes definately

i see sh5 as a ready made fixer-upper that just needs to be fine tuned by the modders to be a very great game. after all, we as modders are able to devote a lot more time to the game then the devs are allowed to so i trust this will be a wonderfull game when modded.

plus dont forget they said near the end that if sh5 did well it was likely we would see an expansion for it to add more subs and content to the end of the war. i dont mind paying for another ($10-$15 hopefully) expansion if the new content is done correctly and ads something more to the game.

Randomizer

01-20-10, 04:05 PM

I came in as completely indifferent but will not be buying SH5 any time soon.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1241110&postcount=36

flag4

01-20-10, 04:05 PM

one of my complaints is the innevitable march of time...

...i will have to buy/build a new computer...

money money money!

martes86

01-20-10, 04:05 PM

Positive for the time being. :DL

nikimcbee

01-20-10, 04:08 PM

Man, I read the thread topic and I thought this was a sexually oriented question. :hmmm:

I'm positive the game will be great.
Hey, what you do when you get back from patrol is up to you. Just don't expect Ubi to provide you a bottle of penecillin. Give him a wiff of the gunpowder!:har:

Webster

01-20-10, 04:11 PM

Adriatico

01-20-10, 04:18 PM

I don't understand how genuine member of Subsim could be - generally "Mostly negative opinion of SHV"

SHV is the only future of Subsim.com and only u-boat simulator in a years to come...
I am personally "bitching" on 2-3 points that deeply disturb me... but this is sign how much SH series means to me...

The only thing that could spoil general feeling could be "periscope screen" failed concept... but I hope it would be at least "usable"

So "no strict opinion" would be my safe ground, untill I try feeling of "being there in WW2 Atlantic"

Onkel Neal

01-20-10, 04:24 PM

Just one thing pisses me off.... The Q&A on the Ubi forum. They should've announced these "features" since September when we were still picking our jaws from the floor after the first trailer! Instead they told us to use our own toilets, ffs!

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. If they were going in a different direction with the franchise, and I don't have a problem with that, they should have made it clear early on. Why wait until the last minute to shock their most vocal and influential customers? Even if people find the game amazing when it comes out, there all that negative buzz for two months.

V.C. Sniper

01-20-10, 04:25 PM

No opinion until I see 100% realism.

Carotio

01-20-10, 04:38 PM

I don't understand how genuine member of Subsim could be - generally "Mostly negative opinion of SHV"

Well, i did vote mostly negative because if we all just bow our faces into the dust and don't speak up, ubisoft will just exploit our finances even more.
Did they forget the motto: the customer is always right.

Several members desires playing other types than just the VII, and if they are not part of the original game, it feels like a slap in the face.

Personally, I can accept minor glitches like the command room not being as narrow as in real life - we're yet to see if it will be realistic - and also some minor graphic glitches, they ain't experience killers. But the missing types of the early war: This is a major error.

If a producer only wants to satisfy a minor group of customers, that's his choice of course, but I would say that an extra investment of time and money in producing a FULL game would make more potential customers pay FULL price. Releasing a half game will earn them half the income, because some won't buy it at all, and others just later at reduced price. And the latter would ultimately indicate bad sales and give them the wrong impression that we don't care. But nothing is further from the truth. We do care. Companies should make surveys to collect feedback to polish the game before release, and in this case some MAJOR features are definitely missing in this game, as it has been described as of late.

Because I really care about this game, because I want to see it succeed I speak up about the REALLY bad things so that it can be corrected in time. And that's why I find it okay to say that I'm negative. You may call it constructive criticism. :03:

Ducimus

01-20-10, 04:44 PM

Spoke my opinion here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1240548&postcount=11

If i buy SH5 now, it will be when it hits the bargain bin and a supermod adds the missing subs and campaign years.

Iron Budokan

01-20-10, 05:12 PM

btw, add me to this side of the fence, I dont like unfinished games.

To be fair, I think the game will be finished...as long as all you want to play are VIICs and have the war magically end in 1943. :O:

zulus

01-20-10, 05:20 PM

So so opinions are related to the ppl who expresses it, You do the math with pluses and minuses but IMPPOW since UBI is not offering a FULL finished simulation despite grapical interface I have troubles in claping my hands to them at the mean time. I'm not going to rant anything or something, I'm going to wait untll the release date and after I'm going to buy it (because I'm damned subsim lover I'm going to buy this s*** anyway) after that I will let the whole world know what I'm thinking about it. However I confess the latest news aint' cheering me up, but I trust in modders as in safety-catch who will do the right thing anyway in future. So I'm floating here between yes and no so far. God bless you all!

JScones

01-20-10, 05:45 PM

IMHO were the marketing geniuses open and up front to begin with, I think things would be far different now.

Had they announced this stuff back in September, sure, people would have been angry, but Ubisoft would have had many months to woo players back to the fold through some great videos that would have undoutedly softened the blow (time heals all wounds and all).

But feeding us useless information does no more than make people sceptical, and more likely to look for the "sting" that must be hidden. When it comes, well, what do you expect?

It finally came the other day for many people. Ubisoft now has just over one month to regain the confidence of those who are now obviously even more wary and sceptical.

You think Ubisoft would have learnt from their SH4 marketing campaign.

Ubisoft marketing department = :har:

capthelm

01-20-10, 06:27 PM

To be fair, I think the game will be finished...as long as all you want to play are VIICs and have the war magically end in 1943. :O:

uboat battle was pretty much over in 43 they are right on this though, was a last ditch no win struggle rest of the war really.

Platapus

01-20-10, 06:37 PM

I am trying to maintain neutrality and keeping an open mind. I fully intend on buying this game as soon as it comes out and giving it a fair trial.

What is making it hard for me is that the only information about SH5 being released concentrates on areas I personally don't put a high priority on (graphics) and little (none) about the areas I personally put a high priority (simulation, realism, game play mechanics).

I hope that I am getting only half the story, but fear that I am, indeed, getting everything from Ubi.

GoldenRivet

01-20-10, 06:44 PM

Sorry.
Operation Drumbeat: 5 boats.
U66 IXC
U109 IXB
U123 IXB
U125 IXC
U130 IXC

Not a VII in the lot.

not so fast

Operation Drum Beat lasted from January of 1942 until about August of that year when it was abandoned.

During that time many boats of various types were deployed to the US Coastal waters.

The 5 boats you name did not encompass the ENTIRE operation... they were simply the front line boats sent in January and February.

some of the other boats which were deployed for example were...

U-404 (VIIC)
U-333 (VIIC)
U-571 (VIIC)
U-552 (VIIC)

and numerous other VII u-boats were deployed to the area of operations outlined in Operation Drum Beat off the United States Eastern Coast

Some VII u-boat attacks took place within sight of shore!

Snestorm

01-20-10, 07:00 PM

not so fast

Operation Drum Beat lasted from January of 1942 until about August of that year when it was abandoned.

During that time many boats of various types were deployed to the US Coastal waters.

The 5 boats you name did not encompass the ENTIRE operation... they were simply the front line boats sent in January and February.

some of the other boats which were deployed for example were...

U-404 (VIIC)
U-333 (VIIC)
U-571 (VIIC)
U-552 (VIIC)

and numerous other VII u-boats were deployed to the area of operations outlined in Operation Drum Beat off the United States Eastern Coast

Some VII u-boat attacks took place within sight of shore!

Many Type VIIs were deployed to the US East Coast succesfuly, and one even entered the Gulf Of Mexico, but Operation Drumbeat was only the First Wave (The Surprise Element).

GoldenRivet

01-20-10, 07:09 PM

I see.

thought you were indicating that VIIs never went to America.

Its unfortunate that IX boats are not included in the initial release.

I see no reason to assume they never will be added either as a mod pack, downloadable content, or as an add on from ubisoft.

i still think that IX boats not being included is a rather silly reason to disown the franchise altogether. :cry:

Snestorm

01-20-10, 07:21 PM

i still think that IX boats not being included is a rather silly reason to disown the franchise altogether. :cry:

I am a confessed IXaholic.

GoldenRivet

01-20-10, 07:24 PM

I am a confessed IXaholic.

Sadly their are no meetings for your condition :D

I am with you on one point and against you on another Snestorm...

1. I think it was a total mistake on Ubi's part to not at least include the IX series boats. I dont understand why this decision was made... however i am but a lowly outsider.

2. I really think that SHV deserves a chance, even by the guys with raging hardons for the IX boats.

Carotio

01-20-10, 07:29 PM

I am a confessed IXaholic.

i'm one of those too. Now we only need the rest of us Anynymous IXaholics to gather up to form a circle to stand up and say: I'm an IXaholic too, and everybody will clap their hands in acknowledgemeant of the courage of admitting it. :03:

Onkel Neal

01-20-10, 07:29 PM

Many Type VIIs were deployed to the US East Coast succesfuly, and one even entered the Gulf Of Mexico, but Operation Drumbeat was only the First Wave (The Surprise Element).

Good point! I tend to think of all US Coastal ops as Operation Drumbeat. :salute:

i'm one of those too. Now we only need the rest of us Anynymous IXaholics to gather up to form a circle to stand up and say: I'm an IXaholic too, and everybody will clap their hands in acknowledgemeant of the courage of admitting it. :03:

:haha: I'm an IXaholic, it's been 27 days since my last patrol. I smile because I am happy and what makes me happy is more torpedoes to fire and more range to hunt.

Sgtmonkeynads

01-20-10, 07:40 PM

Hi Neal !!!!!

Does on......

Oh wait.....MY name is Aaron and I''m a IXaholic.
[Hi Aaron !!!]
Does one know the twelve steps in this program yet ?

Snestorm

01-20-10, 07:55 PM

I really think that SHV deserves a chance, even by the guys with raging hardons for the IX boats.

Money comes more slowly than it once did. Although I can always support my NEEDS, my WANTS are something I have to consider much more carefuly.
It's going to take a good product, that meets my expectations, to sell me.

Reece

01-20-10, 08:06 PM

mookiemookie

01-20-10, 09:01 PM

Carotio

01-20-10, 09:15 PM

I think they merge threads when you're repeating the topic already started in another thread.

Actually, first there was a positive club, then a new thread with a negative club and then this thread, where the initiating post now is nr. 66:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1241039&postcount=66
You'll see it makes - sort of - sence when comparing that post with the poll in this merged thread.
I said it makes sort of sence.....
So no repeating in this case.

GoldenRivet

01-20-10, 09:21 PM

i think the mods did the right thing in deleting both of those leaner threads and leaving it up to a poll.

the problem with the "Do you lean to the positive side" thread is that all the negative minded people post in it.

the problem with the "do you lean to the negative side" thread is that all the positive minded people post in it.

in the end i think the choice to close both threads and just leave it up to the poll was made.

either way, the mods know what they are doing.

SteamWake

01-20-10, 09:23 PM

I personally after long consideration just voted...

Yall have fun arguing now :salute:

Reece

01-20-10, 09:34 PM

I personally after long consideration just voted...

Yall have fun arguing now :salute:That's all it is now, a place to bitch/argue!!:doh: So be it!!:x

Onkel Neal

01-20-10, 09:40 PM

Onkel Neal

01-20-10, 09:48 PM

Oh wait, maybe not... I'm confused... :timeout:

Steeltrap

01-20-10, 09:57 PM

Oh wait, maybe not... I'm confused... :timeout:

Confused about them being merged/unmerged, or confused about you sorting it out?

:D

rascal101

01-20-10, 09:59 PM

Will prbably buy it for the eye candy, because its U-Boats and from loyalty to the series -

But as there is still no confirmation of an open-ended dynamic campaign such as is the case with SH3, and the likleyhood of being able to mod such a campaign from 43 to 45 is remote, unless the developers release an add-on dealing with the later part of the war then I imagine the game will be shelved fairly soon after purchase.

For me the Dynamic Campaign such as it was in SH3 was and is the big daw, it's what kept me coming back to it years after it was released - To date I've not heard anything that suggests prolonged interest in this game.

My comments above in no way should be taken as a critisism of Ubisoft, the developers or any one else, they are the publishers - not me and I thank them for producing games such as these for us to play - They seem to be taking the game in a direction that I'm not all that interested in, I really hope I'm wrong but somehow I just dont think so.

After-all God invented computer games so decent folks wouldnt have to watch TV.
Regards

Rascal

Webster

01-20-10, 10:07 PM

You gotta love how they merge threads when they don't like what is said!!:nope:
I must point out that SH3 was released having a Dynamic Campaign, now we are told that it wasn't a Dynamic Campaign, it was random, well I liked this "Random Dynamic Campaign",:yep: I don't like the sound of this "Scripted Dynamic Campaign with Random elements" (best description I can give)!!:x
The only saving grace is that it can be modded!:oops:

i merged 3 different threads by 3 different people going at the same time all asking "which way do you lean"?

in case you havent noticed this forum has been a madhouse since the news came out and there was barely enough room left on the first page to handle all the brand new threads being started over it.

as to "You gotta love how they merge threads when they don't like what is said!!:nope:" :06: since every single word in ever single post is moved as a whole and added to the bottom of the other thread, whats said is still right there for all to read.

if it just so happened that your post was last when it happened and now is in the middle and may not get the attention you feel it deserves then im sorry but nothing is done for the purpose to hide or mask comments when threads are merged.

Onkel Neal

01-20-10, 10:22 PM

Ok, good deal. I'm not confused any more :)

Confused about them being merged/unmerged, or confused about you sorting it out?

:D

Smarty pants!

Sgtmonkeynads

01-20-10, 10:24 PM

Well it depends in which hand I'm holding my beer [hic-up], sometimes I lean to the left [hic-up] ,and othertimes I lean to the left [hic-up]

It762

01-20-10, 10:26 PM

So the ˇreesult of the poll is? :))

the critics need to calm down a bit , though they have a strong voice :)

Reece

01-20-10, 10:27 PM

i merged 3 different threads by 3 different people going at the same time all asking "which way do you lean"?

in case you havent noticed this forum has been a madhouse since the news came out and there was barely enough room left on the first page to handle all the brand new threads being started over it.

as to "You gotta love how they merge threads when they don't like what is said!!:nope:" :06: since every single word in ever single post is moved as a whole and added to the bottom of the other thread, whats said is still right there for all to read.

if it just so happened that your post was last when it happened and now is in the middle and may not get the attention you feel it deserves then im sorry but nothing is done for the purpose to hide or mask comments when threads are merged.As I said before I had valid points on the opening thread, now it is lost here on post #19!:doh:

GoldenRivet

01-20-10, 10:36 PM

As I said before I had valid points on the opening thread, now it is lost here on post #19!:doh:

it will be alright.

rest assured.

85 million years from now, when all of humanity is extinct, and earth is a lifeless frozen stone, and Subsim.com is the only remaining repository of all human knowledge... im sure the alien archaeologists who manage to boot up the server will take note of the validity of all of our talking points. :D

Reece

01-20-10, 10:48 PM

it will be alright.

rest assured.

85 million years from now, when all of humanity is extinct, and earth is a lifeless frozen stone, and Subsim.com is the only remaining repository of all human knowledge... im sure the alien archaeologists who manage to boot up the server will take note of the validity of all of our talking points. :DDon't rub it in or I will hide in the corner and cry!!:wah: .... :D

Webster

01-20-10, 11:00 PM

I have decided I'm leaning toward the negative side of SHV

No type II or IX boats
Game ends in 1943
Dynamic Campaign appears to be scripted ** See update below **
No Rough seas
Have heard thunder but seen no lightning (SHIV bug)
Looking at the latest video there is no dynamic shadows.
Other question come to mind like flotilla's, are they selectable, are we able to play in the Atlantic or is it just in the Med!:hmmm:
I admit they have added some nice eye candy but important area's have been taken out, starting to look like an arcade game rather than a simulator!:oops::doh:
I hope some of the above concerns come to light soon!:-?

UPDATE:

Originally Posted by TarJak:

Because the "Dynamic" campaign sounds more like a scripted campaign than a SH3/4 sandbox type environment, thereby limiting its replayability.
Elanaiba said:
Let's stop that right there.

The campaign will be much more dynamic (not to mention moddable in a very powerful way) than SH3/4. (BTW those were not dynamic, but random)

People keep turning words around trying to find proof that their greatest fears come true: Scripted Campaign.

Yes, you have a crew. Yes, there's a storyline to it.

But the campaign is dynamic and that's the end of it :) I wouldn't have it any other way.
Reece said:
Are you saying that there is no random elements in the game? we have to follow a set out scripted events? can we choose the flotilla we want and patrol area's of our choice?:hmmm:Elanaiba said:
Yes, there's random in the game.

Yes, you can choose your patrol area, we can't put walls in the middle of the Atlantic.

Later Dan quoted TarJak: To get access to ANY historic port flotilla that you choose, you have to mod it. You will have several starting points that we have chosen, but those are easily modable too.

This sounds a little better, but only if modded it seems!:hmmm:

these are very valid points made by Reece

Steeltrap

01-20-10, 11:51 PM

From Elenaiba:

Yes, you have a crew. Yes, there's a storyline to it.

This bit bothers me somewhat. I'm not sure what 'storyline' there should be other than according with the broad sweep of the conduct of the u-boat war.

The bit about ending mid-43 doesn't bother me that much. The devs' summary of the picture is fairly accurate; after mid-43 a u-boat was lost for each merchant sunk, pretty much. An 'accurate, realistic' portrayal of that will be short and grim. As has been stated, no commanders who served from the early war were at sea in/after '43. In its introduction, Peter Cremer's book (U-333 The story of a u-boat ace) includes a breakdown of serving commanders based on time of service, as written by British intelligence. Makes for interesting reading in itself.

I do not want this 'interaction/roleplaying' to overwhelm the essential part of being a kaleun i.e. following your orders by taking your boat to your assigned patrol place and attacking/calling in wolf packs. This desire to include recon etc etc missions is statisitcally nonsense; the overwhelming majority of missions were 'go to x grid location and sink things'. OK, so there are some ops around Norway etc. that weren't about tonnage, but Doenitz opposed them as being contrary to the strtegic purpose of u-boats.

We're meant to be kaleuns, not managers of a day care centre....

Remains to be seen what all this means, but 'storyline' implies 'scripting' to some extent. So long as it is within the context of the broader Atlantic war, fine. If it becomes ridiculous, no thanks.

I do appreciate the point that 'random' is NOT dynamic in that a truly dynamic campaign will ensure previous actions will have consequences, even if that is only that you can't sink the KG5 4 times.... At the same time, if 'storyline' means a linear track of posting, missions etc then that is tantamount to scripted, even if there is some freedom of action within it.

As has been said, we're still very short on the technical mechanics i.e. sensors, method of commands, encounter density, weapon performance (no '3-shot deck gun of doom', ability to shoot down 20 planes) etc etc. My decision to buy will be based primarily on these.

Cheers

GoldenRivet

01-21-10, 12:05 AM

i think the story line concept will be appreciated once all is revealed.

personally im looking forward to what SHV has to offer.

both off the shelf... and 4 years down range

@ Reece...

your a good man!

im only teasing :up:

IanC

01-21-10, 01:25 AM

Yup! I gotta go with most people here and say I've got a good feeling. In fact the more I think about it, the more I'm looking forward to it.

rascal101

01-21-10, 03:09 AM

Hi to you Sailor Steve,

Further to my comments from another post - I'm not complaining about a few scripted 'element's - and neither am I ranting - my complaint is that the developers seem to be returning to the kind of game play that was in development before SH3, and which was dumped when the SubSim community went balistic about the kind of game play being considered.

Sure they're using different words and sentences to describe the thing but at the end of the day the campaign, such as it is in SH5 is closed, it will be repetitive and predictable, which means a couple of weeks ogling the graphics and then good bye Silent Hunter 5, on to the next game, ho hum!

Sure this is not the Pacific which I think is your preferred theatre, and sure the game only covers type VII's and finishes at 1943 - I don’t give a rats are about either of these items as they can always be fixed with an add-on or modded.

The thing that has my goat is that after all the furor re the lack of Dynamic Campaign in the lead up to SH3, lets not forget this eventually caused the release to be delayed because the developers to their credit actually listened to the complaints. Here we are prior to the release of SH5 and we have the same dam arguments all over again.

The developers seem to be trying to return to the very thing that got every one so upset in the lead up to SH3. And it seem it's because they cant or dont want to script the convoys or individual movements of WW2. Why this is a problem when it's already been done in Silent Hunter's 1, 2 and three is beyond me

Sure they're using different words and really trying to put a brave face on it, maybe its time thing - but look at the publicity so far. If the lessons of SH3 were learnt - we simply shouldn’t be having these discussions now.

Sure the new SH5 will be fun, and it will be graphically amazing, of this there is no doubt, it may have even a few game play surprises -

But the single - inescapable fact is that the new SH5 will be a closed, finite experience. Unlike SH3, once you've played through SH5 the first time, there will be nothing new, ever again, no new surprises; your personal skill, powers of observation or deduction wont count for squat.

The whole joyu of hunting, as the name Silent Hunter will be meaningless because the game will play through, in sequence, exactly the same time after time. The whole joy of SH3 will be lost -

SH3 was, or is one of the few games that has this random, open campaign style, and its this that I think most of the long time folks on this forum are really interested in.

I don’t give a dam about scripted elements, all games have these, what I'm trying to get at is a type of game-play which fully encompasses chance, guess work and luck.

From what I've heard so far these three magic words, chance, guesswork and luck have been thrown out the window in favor of some sort of pseudo educational experience.

At the end of the day I play SH3, and for that matter the Total War series because they are the only games where these three magic words, chance, guess and luck actually mean something -

All the other games offer varying degrees of graphic excellence, but for all their visual sophistication you may as well be in a 2D world driving a pink banana which shoots fire at big hairy monsters - a modern computer version of a coconut shy - for those old enough to know what such a thing is, or was.

Once again I humbly assert that I for one will be utterly and completely happy if I am wrong, I will eat humble pie, will offer considerable sponsorship to SubSim, I will grovel, I will eat my hat and you can film it - if only I am wrong -

Best regards to you and the SubSim community and Ubisoft and the developers of this outstanding series of games

Rascal

What I'm loving is this ongoing rant about the campaign. They have mentioned scripted elements. Way back in SH1 the campaign was completely random, but there were scripted elements - photo recon missions, lifeguard missions. SH4 brought this back very nicely. Sure, some of the missions weren't historically accurate, but they made that easily moddable.

My point is that they are promising more of that, with a campaign that is truly dynamic in that the enemy will change his strategies based on what we do, with the overall randomness still included. They have never once said that the campaign itself would be scripted, and every single complaint in that area is a complaint derived from your own imagination, not from anything anyone on the development team has said.

As for the lack of other boats; yes, that is my complaint too. However, given that people (not me) have been demanding full interiors and more interactive crews for several years now, and given that creating a complete interior for each type plus designing the crew members so they work within the confines of each particular type without walking into or through walls, creating everything needed for every type of boat could take months, if not years, and they don't have that kind of time.

Martes86 is exactly right: I'm complaining, but not because what the devs are doing is wrong, or unfinished, or anything like that. I'm complaining because I wanted something different that what I'm being given. Too bad for me, but that's the way it goes sometimes. I'll still buy it.

Wreford-Brown

01-21-10, 05:30 AM

Does anyone else get the impression that ubisoft are waiting for modders to increase sales on SHV by coming up with a mod/supermod that drastically improves their first release?

Reece

01-21-10, 09:02 AM

@ Rascal, your getting my concern spot on!!:yep: It is a BIG worry!!:-?
+1

urfisch

01-21-10, 09:05 AM

Does anyone else get the impression that ubisoft are waiting for modders to increase sales on SHV by coming up with a mod/supermod that drastically improves their first release?

be sure about that!

Uber Gruber

01-21-10, 09:06 AM

Does anyone else get the impression that ubisoft are waiting for modders to increase sales on SHV by coming up with a mod/supermod that drastically improves their first release?

No....they wouldn't do that! UBI cares an incredible ammount about customer satisfaction. They're not like all the other greed merchants, their goal is quality over greed which I think is very commendable. So don't you worry Wes, they will release an excellent SH5 and will follow it up by releasing plugins....like

1) Atlantic U-Boat Pack
2) Atlantic Wolfpack Pack
3) StormySeas Pack
4) U-Boats, the later years Pack

All of these will be released at no extra charge to the community. That really is how much they care.....gawd bless 'em....and all they ride.:salute:

sharkbit

01-21-10, 03:37 PM

I voted no opinion.
I'm in the wait and see mode.

:)

Carotio

01-21-10, 03:47 PM

All of these will be released at no extra charge to the community. That really is how much they care.....gawd bless 'em....and all they ride.:salute:

Do you sincerely believe that yourself? :o
No extra charge, noway. IF it's game + 1-3 add ons, you can bet anything it will be payware no matter the shape.

SeaWolf U-57

01-21-10, 04:20 PM

JScones

01-21-10, 06:12 PM

No....they wouldn't do that! UBI cares an incredible ammount about customer satisfaction. They're not like all the other greed merchants, their goal is quality over greed which I think is very commendable. So don't you worry Wes, they will release an excellent SH5 and will follow it up by releasing plugins....like

1) Atlantic U-Boat Pack
2) Atlantic Wolfpack Pack
3) StormySeas Pack
4) U-Boats, the later years Pack

All of these will be released at no extra charge to the community. That really is how much they care.....gawd bless 'em....and all they ride.:salute:
Well, as people keep stating here "they are on our side working for us", so of course they will do this, just for us. :up: I am disappointed with you though UB for underselling Ubisoft. Do you really think that they'd limit follow-on packs to a measly four? Of course not! We can expect many, many free add-ons, and all gloriously detailed, such as "The Black Sea", "The Indian Ocean" and my personal fave "Take Antarctica!".

sergbuto

01-22-10, 04:35 AM

In case someone has not notice, Uber Gruber is actually being quite sarcastic. I guess, this is just another way to show his dissapointment on SH5 design decisions and marketing/business policy by UBI.

JScones

01-22-10, 04:38 AM

Yes, I know one person missed it, but I don't think the rest of us did. ;)

Uber Gruber

01-22-10, 09:13 AM

We can expect many, many free add-ons, and all gloriously detailed, such as "The Black Sea", "The Indian Ocean" and my personal fave "Take Antarctica!".

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::up:

Me, sarcastic, the third Duke of Windbourne....with my reputation ?!!! Are you mad! :88)

Feuer Frei!

01-22-10, 09:34 AM

Would be fascinating to see what feedback there would be about SH5 if SH3 hadn't existed.
Dare say that some if not most would still be indicating SH5 is a "glammed-up" version of no4 (obviously different theatre of war etc etc).

I, as i've indicated in another thread, am being patient, totally open-minded about final product content, after all, as i learnt in the army a number of years ago, "assumption is the mother of all $#@@ups".

I'm looking forward to the release, hell, i will even fork out my hard-earned cash for it, why? Because i want to and i'm hooked on the Silent Hunter series. Yep, every one of them.......
Bring it on.........can't wait!

IanC

01-22-10, 09:53 AM

I, as i've indicated in another thread, am being patient, totally open-minded about final product content, after all, as i learnt in the army a number of years ago, "assumption is the mother of all $#@@ups".

:yep: :up:

Safe-Keeper

01-22-10, 10:01 AM

Very true! Why do so many people forget that after SH3, one of the most popular wish items for SH4 was a fully explorable sub? :hmmm:But this wasn't what they wanted - what they wanted wasn't new features at the expense of existing ones. What they wanted was for Ubisoft to wave their magic wands and magick 3D subs into the game.

Now reality has come crashing down, they realize wands don't exist, and that Ubisoft has only limited resources and time, and that if they want more detail in the subs, they'll receive either fewer subs or fewer other features.

Be careful with what you wish for, people;).

Sailor Steve

01-22-10, 10:06 AM

my complaint is that the developers seem to be returning to the kind of game play that was in development before SH3, and which was dumped when the SubSim community went balistic about the kind of game play being considered.
I think you're basing that entire assumption on an interpretation of what has been said, rather than what was actually said.

Sure they're using different words and sentences to describe the thing but at the end of the day the campaign, such as it is in SH5 is closed, it will be repetitive and predictable, which means a couple of weeks ogling the graphics and then good bye Silent Hunter 5, on to the next game, ho hum!
Again, what exactly brings you to that conclusion? Nothing I've read so far.

Sure this is not the Pacific which I think is your preferred theatre,
Now you're jumping to conclusions about me. Since I play SH3 and SH4 using OM, I hardly think the Pacific is my "preferred theater". I just like submarines.

The thing that has my goat is that after all the furor re the lack of Dynamic Campaign in the lead up to SH3, lets not forget this eventually caused the release to be delayed because the developers to their credit actually listened to the complaints. Here we are prior to the release of SH5 and we have the same dam arguments all over again.
Yes, I was part of that 'Great Mutiny'. And what the developers said that had us up in arms was that SH3 would have a campaign "similar to that in SH2, only expanded". That is nothing like what is being said now. Again, I think you're reading in something that's not actually there.

Unlike SH3, once you've played through SH5 the first time, there will be nothing new, ever again, no new surprises; your personal skill, powers of observation or deduction wont count for squat.

The whole joyu of hunting, as the name Silent Hunter will be meaningless because the game will play through, in sequence, exactly the same time after time. The whole joy of SH3 will be lost -
And again you're making flat-out definitive statements about what the game will have, based on nothing more than how you interpret a quote that ends up saying it will be like SH3, only better. I don't see where you get these conclusions from.

SH3 was, or is one of the few games that has this random, open campaign style, and its this that I think most of the long time folks on this forum are really interested in.
On that we agree. However, what has been promised is not a scripted, closed campaign, but a dynamic campaign that allows the AI to adapt and change its tactics based on our actions. If that works out as I read it, it will be a great improvement.

From what I've heard so far these three magic words, chance, guesswork and luck have been thrown out the window in favor of some sort of pseudo educational experience.
And yet again, exactly what have you heard that leads you to that conclusion? Nothing the devs have said makes me think that way at all. To me it's like the new "No Stormy Weather" argument: Someone guesses at something, and the next thing you know it's gospel.

Once again I humbly assert that I for one will be utterly and completely happy if I am wrong, I will eat humble pie, will offer considerable sponsorship to SubSim, I will grovel, I will eat my hat and you can film it - if only I am wrong -
And you could end up being right. I'm just not getting that from what Dan has said so far. I do have my own reasons for being less-than-enthusiastic about where this is going, but my desire is for nothing more than an SH4 that works properly. I like that one as it stands except for the things that need to be fixed. That, and I'd like to see the new graphics applied to SH3/4.

scrapser

01-22-10, 10:26 AM

I think I'm going to raise my arm and wave good-bye to the Silent Hunter franchise. SH3 was a good attempt...SH4 fell flat like a bottle of soda left in the sun with the cap off. Now we have this new offering which in my opinion should really be titled, "Silent Hunter-Type VII" or maybe, "Silent Hunter: A Case Study of the Type VII U-Boat".

I'm really not interested in being able to walk around the interior, look at the engine room or go to the galley and see what's for dinner. I want...as I always have...a modern version of what was produced by MicroProse so many years ago. They did it right with only 64K of RAM! Strategic Simulations produced an excellent update with the original Silent Hunter. Everything after that has been like playing horse shoes...close but no ringers.

Everybody here seems to be h*ll bent on convincing themselves this is going to be great but I'm just not so sure. I think the basic architecture of what a submarine simulation is has long since been established and now they're just experimenting.

I have to ask this question:

After SH3 was released, there was an enormous effort within the community to polish the sim. The same thing occured after SH4. I know the developers of these two releases are fully aware of what the modding community has produced so they also have intimate knowledge of what people are looking for in a sub sim. Why don't they take all that knowledge, add it to their own experience, and produce a polished product instead of continually going back to square one and trying something different?

SH4 was shocking to me. I expected it to be a huge improvement over SH3 but instead it had a completely new set of problems...some of them incredibly dumb (like using meters instead of yards for the US Navy). I mean come on...that's like leaving your house with no pants.

Snestorm

01-22-10, 04:13 PM

SH4 was shocking to me. I expected it to be a huge improvement over SH3 but instead it had a completely new set of problems...some of them incredibly dumb (like using meters instead of yards for the US Navy). I mean come on...that's like leaving your house with no pants.

And KiloMeters instead of Nautical Miles for ANY seagoing vessel.
Completely absurd!

Brag

01-22-10, 05:02 PM

Heh, Steve!

You are like those movie swordsmen fighting off a mob of raging bad guys :salute:

totodog

01-22-10, 05:10 PM

I don't really lean either way. I'm still probably going to buy it when it comes out.

Snestorm

01-25-10, 01:38 PM

I wonder how Danger From The Deep is coming along?

Brag

01-25-10, 02:08 PM

I voted no opinion. I will buy the game and see for myself. Knowing the work the Devs do, I think it will be a worthwhile investment. I'm sure after devloping SH3, which had brilliant ideas. SH 4, which I only heard had major deficisiences, and studying GWX, the Devs have produced a worthwhile investment.

I have saved enough to get a new computer and get back into the fray.:salute:

HundertzehnGustav

01-25-10, 02:11 PM

Which way do you lean in regards to SHV?

I lean forward, slowly moving one foot backwards.
Then i lean back, shoving my foot up some suit's arse!
enough!

i'm outtahere.

onelifecrisis

01-25-10, 03:16 PM

I've seen a few people mentioning a lack of dynamic shadows, but I've seen several SH5 videos clearly showing dynamic shadows on the crew and even being cast from the ships onto the sea - something I wanted ages ago - so, what's with the complaints?

On topic: I voted no opinion, cos I've not played the game.

Julhelm

01-25-10, 03:21 PM

I think the game sounds like it will have vastly superior gameplay compared to SH3/4. I'll be buying it.

Brag

01-25-10, 04:02 PM

After the following statement just made by Elenaiba I'm leaning waaaay in favor.

Elenaiba's statement:

FREE ROAMING IS IN!!!!!

And it will stay in. You may not follow orders and if you sink ships this will have an effect in your area and may affect the results of your patrol.

oscar19681

01-25-10, 04:21 PM

I,m buying it definitly! I just dont understand some people on the forum keep on nagging about. I mean the VIIC is the coolest u-boat anyway and i,m sure the other u-boats and the rest of the campaign will find there way into sh-5.

ryanglavin

01-25-10, 05:13 PM

@carotio...

Type VII boats did in fact operate in American Waters for Operation Drumbeat.

several of them in fact.

Well, to be correct, a ton of them did. most of the second and third wave (if i recall) were type ViiC's refueling from milch cows on the return trip.

ryanglavin

01-25-10, 05:19 PM

And Hell, I'll just throw something out.
If none of us have played the game yet, how do we know if we like it or not? I just like to point out basic facts... don't judge a book by its cover.

Snestorm

01-25-10, 06:54 PM

Well, to be correct, a ton of them did. most of the second and third wave (if i recall) were type ViiC's refueling from milch cows on the return trip.

Type VIIs did operate off the US East Coast.
Type VIIs did NOT paticipate in Operation Drumbeat.

Drumbeat was ONLY the first wave of boats sent following the Declaration of War.

5 U-boats participated in Drumbeat, ALL of which were Type IXBs and IXCs.
Sorry. No Type VIIs in the lot.

Link:
http://uboat.net/ops/drumbeat.htm

Frederf

01-27-10, 02:24 AM

I'm not so upset about the TypeVII and cut off date. I can have tons of fun in a limited selection of submarine(s) and years... IF IT'S WELL DONE.

Obviously, the devs would love to model all boats for all years but they can't do it within time/budget constraints. They even said in the Jan 2010 interview "Yeah late war had all these crazy technologies that we NEVER did right in SH3." They basically admitted that since they couldn't do the late war right they weren't going to do it at all.

What makes me pessimistic is how the devs have left huge flaws in SH3, SH4, and undoubtedly SH5 upcoming that either take tremendous modder effort or are impossible to mod-fix. What about the Jap DDs in SH4 that would magically turn on their sonar when you might be in position instead of historically leaving it on all the time or only turning it on when they suspected something there? Yeah, that's a pretty big hole in their sensor and AI behavior code. What about the aircraft that magically appear from a dice roll and happen to make a perfect round trip over your sub? The TDC never operated like it was suppose to and the captain had only the option to play a 1-man submarine or use arcade mode.