Of gunsights and bible quotes [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

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Skybird

01-19-10, 04:39 PM

:dead:

Religious moralists manage to surprise me time and again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8468981.stm

Idiotic. Simply that. When a soldier gives his rifle a name, or a ordnance crew loading bobms on a plane writes something sarcastic with chalk on a bomb, than that is one thing. If a manufacturer thinks he must spread religious propagande as a factory settingy encraving it on his weapons by default, then this is something different.

If I were the defense ministries, I would sue them for financial compensation equal the value of all gunsights delivered in these 30 years, plus contract violation fees.

Jimbuna

01-19-10, 04:45 PM

Looks like they're simply spreading the word of God to the disbelievers :DL

SteamWake

01-19-10, 04:48 PM

Yea saw this the other day and found it to be hilarious on so many levels but not really worth posting about.

Weiss Pinguin

01-19-10, 04:52 PM

Eh, I mean, does it really hurt anything? It's not like they can't just file the letters off anyways.

Letum

01-19-10, 04:56 PM

They should have chosen Matthew 26:52

"Then saith Jesus to him, 'Turn back thy sword to its place; for all who did take the sword, by the sword shall perish"

I suspect Mikey Weinstein's quote is on the money:
I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American
public would react if citations from the Koran were being inscribed
onto these US armed forces gunsights instead of New Testament citations,

Snestorm

01-19-10, 05:35 PM

They would have been better off with something that had Zeiss or Bushnell engraved on it.

Task Force

01-19-10, 05:40 PM

Hmm... A multi use gun... to study bible stuff,and kill someone at the same time... lol

Ducimus

01-19-10, 05:51 PM

:shifty:

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition!

(sorry, couldn't resist making at least one wisecrack)

August

01-19-10, 06:30 PM

I suspect Mikey Weinstein's quote is on the money:

Personally I doubt most of my fellow Americans would care one way or the other.

GoldenRivet

01-19-10, 06:38 PM

Personally I doubt most of my fellow Americans would care one way or the other.

All i care about.

is there a firearm in my side table drawer?

is it capable of being childproofed?

does it have stopping power?

when i squeeze the trigger will a projectile leave the barrel at high velocity and strike the approximate area at which the firearm was pointed?

if the answer is yes to all of those questions, i can protect my family far better than any federal, state or local law enforcement agency can.

MothBalls

01-19-10, 06:48 PM

I'm surprised the bible thumpers haven't come forward and bitched about putting coded references to biblical passages on weapons.

Ducimus

01-19-10, 07:19 PM

It does bug me, but that's because i don't have better things to worry about. I know that when i was in the service, my attitude would have been along the lines of, "I don't have time worry about this stupid bullschitt". People in the states, and servicemen oversea's live in two different realities. They're probably more worried about the basics of life. We're as we are secure in the basics of life, so we look at more lofty crap instead.

August

01-19-10, 07:36 PM

My only question would be whether it was a serviceable piece of equipment. If anything I would have appreciated the blasphemy of putting bible verses on weapons of war.

SteamWake

01-19-10, 08:37 PM

I'm surprised the bible thumpers haven't come forward and bitched about putting coded references to biblical passages on weapons.

Hah !!! excellent point !!!

I'm sure that out there somewhere exactly that is in the works.

Task Force

01-19-10, 08:48 PM

yea, now tomorrow...

Log into subsim, press new posts, and see a new thread...

"religious people freaking because of bible stuff on guns!"

bookworm_020

01-19-10, 08:50 PM

Maybe they need to start taking requests, other verses for other religions. Could be a money spinner?:hmmm:

Ducimus

01-19-10, 09:23 PM

yea, now tomorrow...

Log into subsim, press new posts, and see a new thread...

"religious people freaking because of bible stuff on guns!"

Honestly, i was thinking the exact opposite. Usually they like to put their bible stuff on EVERYTHING. So i was thinking that this has their support, and they'd complain if it was removed.

UnderseaLcpl

01-19-10, 10:06 PM

I had to look at my own looted ACOG (thanks, taxpayers:up:) to make sure this was true and sure enough, it is; 2COR46.

In all honesty that's the most retarded method of spreading the faith I have ever seen, even moreso than televangelism. I'm a religious guy myself and after I looked at the lettering again I realized I had seen it many times before as I spent hours screwing around with the ACOG and using it as spyglass. Even so, I didn't catch the reference and I am fairly familiar with 2 Corinthians.

What makes the message particularly ignoreable is the fact that the ACOG also has a warning printed on it that advises against breaking the glass tube that contains a "radioactive agent"(namely, tritium) and/or setting the thing on fire. There are only two kind of IED attacks in Iraq; explosive and incendiary. Very encouraging.:dead:

Castout

01-19-10, 10:10 PM

They should have chosen Matthew 26:52

"Then saith Jesus to him, 'Turn back thy sword to its place; for all who did take the sword, by the sword shall perish"

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Nicolas

01-21-10, 03:04 PM

It's kind of weird, if they want to spread the gospel, i don't know.. they should give bibles to the soldiers or something like that. Bible says you are not allowed to kill. Putting bible things into weapons... :-?

Skybird

01-21-10, 06:23 PM

It's kind of weird, if they want to spread the gospel, i don't know.. they should give bibles to the soldiers or something like that.
It is neither the US army's nor the American state'S business to spread the gospel or any other belief. Nor is the state and its services and offices allowed to do favours to any religion's interest, and servicing them.

August

01-21-10, 06:45 PM

OMG! :o It's a wonder how we managed to still beat the nazis in spite of naming our AFV's after Roman Catholic clergy.

http://www.afrikakorps.org/_photos/US/M7PriestEarlyUSFLagTri-Colo.jpg

Weiss Pinguin

01-21-10, 06:46 PM

But Trijicon isn't part of the US Army or American government, is it? To me it seems that whether they stamp bible verses onto their products or not is their choice. I could be wrong, though.

August

01-21-10, 06:46 PM

Nicolas

01-21-10, 06:51 PM

Skybird

How? dollar says "In God we trust",
But i mean, if the company or the goverment itself want to spread the gospel they can do it, but i dont think writing chapters of the bible on weapons. And less if the buyer do not want those inscriptions. Anyway you can accept a #$@##@$# to Hel%$ you s$@# of $##@ on a bomb but if you see something from the bible why you wonder so much.

Weiss Pinguin

01-21-10, 06:53 PM

Somebody is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
I was responding to Skybird's post :06:

Skybird

01-21-10, 07:07 PM

Skybird

How? dollar says "In God we trust",

Not originally. On coins it was introduced not before 1865, and on banknotes not before 1956 it was printed, after massive lobbying by a Catholic order.

Platapus

01-21-10, 07:14 PM

What makes the message particularly ignoreable is the fact that the ACOG also has a warning printed on it that advises against breaking the glass tube that contains a "radioactive agent"(namely, tritium) and/or setting the thing on fire. There are only two kind of IED attacks in Iraq; explosive and incendiary. Very encouraging.:dead:

If an IED blows up your optical sight or sets your scope on fire, I think a tritium leak is the least of your worries. :shifty:

Skybird

01-21-10, 07:14 PM

But Trijicon isn't part of the US Army or American government, is it? To me it seems that whether they stamp bible verses onto their products or not is their choice. I could be wrong, though.
Maybe, but the army, as a body of the state and no private entity, should have refused to accept the items delivered in that state. As I said, they should sue the cokpany for compensation, contract violation, and replacement of the delivered units. It is clearly a missionary agenda being driven by a private enterprise/person into the state's business. It's the same like with changes for the pro-Creationistic curriculum for a public school, Islamic headscarfs and burkhas, the massive pressure in the air force to christianise it's members, etc.

The first amendement makes it very clear what freedom the state has to service religions and sects of it's choice: none. Else you end up like we in Germany: having secularism on paper and in the Basic Law, but in reality the state is conspirating with the church to collect and enforce obligatory church taxes from church members. That this is done on the basis of a state-given law, is a violation of the secular principle. The state should not have any business in this and the chrcuh should ask it's members all by itself to finance it - the chruch is not part of the legislation or a law-making authority. the German practice is illegal.

August

01-21-10, 07:42 PM

I was responding to Skybird's post :06:

I was agreeing with you.

nikimcbee

01-21-10, 07:51 PM

OMG! :o It's a wonder how we managed to still beat the nazis in spite of naming our AFV's after Roman Catholic clergy.

http://www.afrikakorps.org/_photos/US/M7PriestEarlyUSFLagTri-Colo.jpg

:haha::salute:

nikimcbee

01-21-10, 07:54 PM

August

01-21-10, 08:17 PM

We'll make a scope just for SB. Everytime you go to pull the trigger, the scope plays a quick mpeg video quoting a random scripture.:O::haha:

On a side note, I didn't people took the time to read the engravings on their weapons.:D

Seems like a non-issue to me.

Of course it's a non issue. A mountain out of a mole hill created by those looking to stir up trouble.

On the other hand, poor UnderseaLcpl has done been religionized and he didn't even know it! He ought to apply for a government disability for accute TPD (Traumatic Proselytism Disorder).

Platapus

01-21-10, 08:32 PM

But would it be an equal molehill if the quotation was not from a christian bible but some other religious text?

Or is it only a molehole because it is a christian reference?

August

01-21-10, 08:51 PM

But would it be an equal molehill if the quotation was not from a christian bible but some other religious text?

Or is it only a molehole because it is a christian reference?

We have or have had ships, planes and other stuff named after everything from Greek gods to satanic apparitions and it's never been an issue. Why are some obscure and barely noticeable verse references, ones that I understand have been "gracing" that companies products for almost 20 years, suddenly such a huge problem?

Weiss Pinguin

01-21-10, 10:16 PM

I was agreeing with you.
Ah, my bad. The Internets strike agin'! :lol: Totally agree with you and nik on this issue.

CaptainHaplo

01-21-10, 11:15 PM

Letum

01-21-10, 11:23 PM

You could argue that the manufacturer is guilty of a form of deception by
hiding and codifying the messages. They where clearly not meant to be
found easily.

Ducimus

01-21-10, 11:38 PM

:shifty:

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition!

(sorry, couldn't resist making at least one wisecrack)

:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEl2xvs4RG8
(edit: Just FYI, I'm joking around)

Skybird

01-22-10, 09:37 AM

Skybird - the private company made a product. Part of that product was a reference to Biblical Scripture. The Government decided to buy said Product after it passed specific reviews. No changes have been made to the product after the acceptancy by the Government.

Should the government not accept the product? Perhaps. But whether it does or not, punishing the manufacturer is unfair - because they did nothing wrong. The error was on the part of the government - not the company that makes the product.

They have every right to put a reference on their product if they wish. The government has (and had) the right to refuse to accept the product. The government did not excersize that right. Why is it the private company the one you want to be penalized by being made to "provide a full refund"?

Like Letum already hinted at, if it would have been no bible reference, but a Quran Sura saying something about the beheading of infidels for example, this thread would see very different comments, I'm absolutely sure.

They tried to sneak in a religious agenda, and hid it to get away with it. And that should be taken queer - both of it. Some letters engraved into a scope is not the issue. The intention behind doing so - that is the issue.

Or what would some of you say if they had engraved some atheistic statement instead...? I know that some visitors in this forum would be pissed, and accept this bible reference only because they consider themselves as christian believers.

and then think about the thing itself: Christian religion understood as being representative for the teachings of Jesus - and tools of war and systematic masskilling. I mean I already have problems with priests blessing guns and bombs. Sometimes war cannot be avoided. But for Christ's sake - leave the Christ out of this human insanity. War is not what he has preached or legitimised.

P.S. I also doubt that the army has ordered "Rifle scopes model xyz with bible references engraved on them". If I would buy a spare part for my bike and find something like this, I would bring it back and confront them over it (as long as I have not bought it in a church-shop - whiczh is extremely unlikely :D ).

August

01-22-10, 10:15 AM

Like Letum already hinted at, if it would have been no bible reference, but a Quran Sura saying something about the beheading of infidels for example, this thread would see very different comments, I'm absolutely sure.

Inaccurate comparison. Those bible references are not advocating violence.

They tried to sneak in a religious agenda, and hid it to get away with it. And that should be taken queer - both of it. Some letters engraved into a scope is not the issue. The intention behind doing so - that is the issue.

What agenda? If it was to proselytize it was a particularly bad job of it seeing as it took 20 years for anyone to notice. Haplo certainly didn't.

Or what would some of you say if they had engraved some atheistic statement instead...? I know that some visitors in this forum would be pissed, and accept this bible reference only because they consider themselves as christian believers.

Strawman argument. Telling others what they would do with no proof at all.

I already have problems with priests blessing guns and bombs

I don't think anyone really cares what you have problems with.

P.S. I also doubt that the army has ordered "Rifle scopes model xyz with bible references engraved on them". If I would buy a spare part for my bike and find something like this, I would bring it back and confront them over it (as long as I have not bought it in a church-shop - whiczh is extremely unlikely :D ).

And they'd be right to tell you to get stuffed.

antikristuseke

01-22-10, 11:23 AM

While I think it to be inapropriate that those sights have refrenzes to passages from the bible on them, I don't really see it as a major issue. The sights with those markings should be used up and all future ACOG's delivered to the military should not have those markings.

Snestorm

01-22-10, 01:31 PM

nikimcbee

01-24-10, 01:12 PM

On a side note, just wait until SB sees Tim Tebow play for the first time.:hmmm:
http://16thandhighland.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/teblow2.jpg

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/tim_tebow_(2).jpg

Tribesman

01-24-10, 01:58 PM

On coins it was introduced not before 1865, and on banknotes not before 1956 it was printed, after massive lobbying by a Catholic order.
:har::har::har::har::har:
Catholic order:rotfl2:wrong date:rotfl2:

MothBalls

01-24-10, 03:06 PM

But would it be an equal molehill if the quotation was not from a christian bible but some other religious text?

Or is it only a molehole because it is a christian reference?Good point. If it was from the Koran there would be hell to pay.

Hakahura

01-24-10, 06:00 PM

Insignificant, mountain out of a mole hill, complete none story. Yes that's how I feel about it. It's also how a great many other people feel about it.
But how does your average Iraqi or Afgan citizen feel when they hear this?
Is this useful propaganda to the likes of the Taliban and Al Qaeda?
The western world says we are not repeating the crusades but how does this play to your average Muslim goat herder?
We want these people on side, we don't want them killing NATO forces.
Me-thinks the manufacturer has done the Services no favours here.