VII TYPE SIM: Modding & modability vs. DLC! [Archive]

urfisch

01-15-10, 01:33 PM

Now stated:

" Silent Hunter 5 Ubisoft Type VII U-boat interactive subsim March 2010 Beta"what a crap...

yes, as Neal wrote: IF it is fully detailed...it MIGHT be a good "sim", even there is only one boat. but this is far from beeing guarenteed.

i tell you guys: i see us trying to get the other boats added...and gettin nicely stuck in creating the animations for the crew in these boats, or any other detail. cause as we know, UBI does not do anything for the modders support...so there will be a lot of stuff, we dont know how to handle.

REMEMBER SH3! For example we had to wait 3 years(!) to get new harbours...after a lot of people digged out enough information, by spending weeks on code-investigation -> Although UBI stated, to release a "harbour creation kit"...lol and this only concerns harbours - and after we also never got any "development modding kit"...i do not believe in any announcement these studio makes, concerning modding/modability. this is pure cheekiness.

So, what do you think. Will we be able to mod the game as easy, as stated? Or will we be forced to buy DLC, cause this means much more profit for UBI.

:stare:

mookiemookie

01-15-10, 01:40 PM

So, what do you think. Will we be able to mod the game as easy, as stated? Or will we be forced to buy DLC, cause this means much more profit for UBI.

:stare:

Who knows? The game isn't out yet.

urfisch

01-15-10, 02:33 PM

Who knows? The game isn't out yet.

Really?!...i might missed something...

BulSoldier

01-15-10, 02:43 PM

Is this for real ??? If so my bigest fears have came to be... Once more gwx team and the other modders are the ones i will count on.Maybe will see the reopening of the gwx4 project or brand new gwx5.
They are the subsimers first ,last and only hope of quality time with subs.

Ducimus

01-15-10, 04:12 PM

Huh?

Could someone rewind please? Im not quite "getting" the original post. Sources?

Jimbuna

01-15-10, 04:38 PM

I must admit to feeling a tad confused....would someone enlighten me please? :hmmm:

Mikhayl

01-15-10, 04:53 PM

The basis of the new row of speculation :)
http://www.subsim.com/nucleus/index.php?blogid=4 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/../nucleus/index.php?blogid=4)

danlisa

01-15-10, 04:54 PM

SH5 is listed as a 'VII Simulation' (as per Neals header) leading to the conclusion that there will only one playable uboat type. This also raises the question of chargeable DLC in the form of other boat types and in turn hints that the modability of SH5 might not be that open, assuming that UBI wish close it off to ensure max profit from any DLC.

Ducimus

01-15-10, 05:02 PM

Well, i know everyone here already thought of porting the type 9D2 out of UBM after reading this thread. :haha: But on that note, seems silly that Ubi didn't already do that. The type 9 interior they could have fudged by just changing the locations of the periscope in the type 7 so both are in the conning tower.
But i guess it could be that a Bethseda styled DLC is the future business model. :hmmm: Meh. Time will tell i guess.

Mikhayl

01-15-10, 05:04 PM

That's a possibility, but given the huge amount of work needed to create a complete sub up to SH5 standard, with interior and whatever amount of scripting needed to make it work, maybe UBI won't care so much about leaving the game open. Modders "could have" added German boats to SH4 1.4 but it didn't happen and the add-on sold reasonnably well.

Between a half assed free add-on sub or a say $10/15 sub with all bells and whistle, well, there'd be a lot of moaning but I'm sure ultimately it would fly.

Ducimus

01-15-10, 05:17 PM

That's a possibility, but given the huge amount of work needed to create a complete sub up to SH5 standard, with interior and whatever amount of scripting needed to make it work, .

Well, were' really not even sure what that standard is yet, do we? The screenshots are nice, but alot of that could be shader effects and PPF. I will admit the poly count looks higher on the models. We do know the file structure remains the same (or so the devs stated), and if thats true, it can't be much more then an hours worth of work to add another Uboat assuming you had existing resources to reuse/retouch like the 9D2 from UBM. The interior is the heckler though. Yeah they could fudge it by just making the CR and CT unique in periscope placement, but it would probably come off as being cheesy.

Weather-guesser

01-16-10, 01:08 AM

Hmm...I fear preparing myself for SH5 with only a type VII will only lead to being stuck with one sub with SH4 quality when released.

Hell they can only improve on SH4 right?...right??? :damn:

urfisch

01-16-10, 05:16 AM

Well, were' really not even sure what that standard is yet, do we? The screenshots are nice, but alot of that could be shader effects and PPF. I will admit the poly count looks higher on the models. We do know the file structure remains the same (or so the devs stated), and if thats true, it can't be much more then an hours worth of work to add another Uboat assuming you had existing resources to reuse/retouch like the 9D2 from UBM. The interior is the heckler though. Yeah they could fudge it by just making the CR and CT unique in periscope placement, but it would probably come off as being cheesy.

you are quite optimistic duci...but, lets see. i do not want the game to be badly modable..., maybe some might think me to wish so. NEVER! i loved to mod sh3 and would love to mod sh5. but the rumors about dlc are that frightening and realistic, that nice mods would be dangerous for the business model. and therefore the ability to make some, is cut down to an absolut minimum.

we all know, how business works. its not the red cross for subsimmers...

Ducimus

01-16-10, 09:30 AM

you are quite optimistic duci...

First time I've ever been accused of that. :haha:

Hartmann

01-16-10, 12:30 PM

First steps to a closed platform ?? :shifty:

Make a IX could be possible with mods but there are some problems, for example the external model, different length of the submarine interior, stern torpedo tubes, damage screen, crew, ...

And this assuming that ubi don´t want to sell aditional submarines in addons,
this can limited a lot the mods for the game.

DLC is a way to sell a incomplete game to the public and do business with the missing parts

Jimbuna

01-16-10, 02:30 PM

Lanzfeld

01-16-10, 02:38 PM

They dont care about resentment. They care about $$$.

"Rise Of Flight" has done this and paved the way (well.....maybe not the first to do it). I have no idea if it is working out or not.

Dowly

01-16-10, 02:52 PM

If true, this is BS. Shame on you Ubi. :nope:

Lionclaw

01-16-10, 05:02 PM

If they take the path of just having the Type VII in the finished product and sell the other u-boats as DLC. Then sticking with SH3 + GWX is a better option. IMO

Everyone doesn't have the capability to purchase DLC!

The option would be to sell a complete package in retail stores after some time.

HundertzehnGustav

01-16-10, 05:43 PM

Lionclaw +1

that would put me off.
"gets a sinking feeling about shV, v2.0"

JScones

01-16-10, 06:25 PM

They dont care about resentment. They care about $$$.
:yep: Couldn't agree more. :up:

Platapus

01-16-10, 06:30 PM

They dont care about resentment. They care about $$$.

Yeah it is like UbiSoft was some sort of business or sumptin. :D

Hitman

01-17-10, 04:17 AM

JU_88

01-17-10, 05:49 AM

Meh.. to much jumping to conclusion again :doh:
Lets at least wait for the big announcement before we start the great subsim riot of 2010 :haha:

Lanzfeld

01-17-10, 08:50 AM

Hitman has a good point. I am not saying that I am against DLC. I just dont know if it is working well (profitable) for Rise Of Flight... and keeping the masses happy (which I already said doesnt really matter after you got the $$$).

HundertzehnGustav

01-17-10, 08:54 AM

But if UBI released it two years later, all in one for 80$, everyone would be saying how fantastic sim it is, and that the price and wait was well worth it!

Such is humankind :nope:

Yea, but i wouldn t b*tch about my cash, i would b*tch because
-They got my expectations up for "SHV = NEW SHIII+GWX+2010 standard" -And didnt do it by 2010.
-I would bitch because i have to wait. i mean 2005-2012, thats a long time.
- And If 2012 (with DLC n shiz) the successor of SHIV will finally give me what i have had 2009 in GWX 3.0, for that i would not be a happy SHV customer.

80 Balls aint the problem. I want it to be complete 2010. To be serious. To have Systems. Options. Deep Gameplay. Proper Units. Hundreds of ship Variants. Complete Navies and air forces. Then they can also have a hundred Balls if they desire.

Today, what they say, i take that as a promise. I hope they keep their promise, for me to keep my smile.

andycaccia

01-17-10, 09:28 AM

but are we SURE about SH5 being a type VII only sim?:06:

Sorry to bother the community, but It sounds really unbelievable to me, and all this rumoring made me anxious about this..:-?

urfisch

01-17-10, 09:40 AM

The funny thing is that:

A game with a detailed Type VII, dynamic campaign & wolfpacks=50$
Add-on with Type IX, new gadgets, fixes, improvements=10$
Add-on with Type II, new gadgets, fixes, improvements=10$
Add-on with Type XXI and XXIII, new gadgets, fixes, improvements=10$

Total = 80$

but why should we pay for something, that could be build on our own??? thats the point. and in the german forum one fellow stated, that times of low quality junk games are more or less over. the people want quality back, with good gameplay. the argument, that ubi NEEDS to do it like this, is pure nonsense. if they would have released more quality games, instead of fast output games, with bugs unlimited...they would not have to start with DLC.

anyway. i wonder, why i should pay for "improvements" which are nothing else, than bug fixing. and "new gadgets"? lol. hitman, with all respect: do you really expect "gadgets" in a DLC package with new boats? never. this reminds me of the german xsoftware firm addon "battle in the mediterranean", which only put community mods together to sell them as an own product. but all where told, there is "a fantastic load" of new gadgets inside.

no, hitman. this is idealist thinking. if the new way is to sell a whole game in parts...i do not accept, to explain it with such arguments. cause why buying a buggy game with all content for 80 dollars, if one could have it for 50? no way!

it is not us, to pay for the consequences of a wrong strategy in business...

:stare:

anyone disagrees?

Myxale

01-17-10, 09:53 AM

All that guessing and raging about stuff we don't know makes me tired.

I say lets wait.

UBI knows about us and therefore knows what we want.

Lets wait till the game ships, and if our wost fears are manifested inside the DVD chase, then we still can rage over at UBI for sucking the lemon!

:stare:

Jimbuna

01-17-10, 10:22 AM

All will be revealed in March http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

HundertzehnGustav

01-17-10, 10:37 AM

if the new way is to sell a whole game in parts...i do not accept, to explain it with such arguments. cause why buying a buggy game with all content for 80 dollars, if one could have it for 50? no way!

it is not us, to pay for the consequences of a wrong strategy in business...

:stare:

anyone disagrees?

I am following a similar trend with payware planes for FSX... B-52 top notch model textutes and animations for a pretty cheap price...

But no cockpit no avionics no sound no nothing...

:nope:

Hitman

01-17-10, 02:57 PM

Come to think of the latest things that have happened, and info that has leaked ... here's my educated guess:

-In SH3 we got dynamic campaign at the expense of wolfpacks
-In SH5 we have already dynamic campaign ... but we will get wolfpacks at the expense of other Uboat types

My 2 cents :|\\

andycaccia

01-17-10, 03:17 PM

To the devil with the goddamn wolfpacks!!
Gimme those damn subs!!!:damn:

Nisgeis

01-17-10, 03:35 PM

In SH5 we have already dynamic campaign ... but we will get wolfpacks at the expense of other Uboat types

Weren't wolfpacks described as something they would think about? E.G. not locked in and, as in SH3, where they were also being thought about, never to materialise.

Hartmann

01-17-10, 07:58 PM

My guess is ..

No more u boat types and not wolfpacks , but we will get full interiors

Méo

01-17-10, 08:18 PM

here's my educated guess:

-In SH3 we got dynamic campaign at the expense of wolfpacks
-In SH5 we have already dynamic campaign ... but we will get wolfpacks at the expense of other Uboat types

I hope you're right on because here's my guess:

No wolfpacks + No other Uboat types = very high probability of failure

And we haven't talked about gameplay and bugs...:shifty:

Snestorm

01-17-10, 10:36 PM

I hope you're right on because here's my guess:

No wolfpacks + No other Uboat types = very high probability of failure

And we haven't talked about gameplay and bugs...:shifty:

Agreed.

JScones

01-18-10, 01:47 AM

but are we SURE about SH5 being a type VII only sim?:06:

Sorry to bother the community, but It sounds really unbelievable to me, and all this rumoring made me anxious about this..:-?
It certainly sounds unbelievable to me too, which is why I am not believing it until I hear it direct from Ubi. I certainly couldn't fathom why the other types would be dropped; I'd consider it a gross error of judgment were it true (add the FPS thingy, sure, but not at the expense of key elements such as playable u-boat types!!!)...

Surprisingly, I find myself again agreeing with Meo here (this must be what, twice now ;)); no wolfpacks and no other Uboat types would be pretty close to a FAIL. :down: (I can imagine one of those posters created for it now, lol!). Still, I hold out that we are all merely misinterpreting the skerrick of information that we have been given (albeit a logical conclusion to draw based on what we have seen).

HundertzehnGustav

01-18-10, 11:10 AM

JScones, i think we are all seeing the images, and trying to prepare ourselved for the wordt, still hoping for the best. That is the reason why many of us pay so close attention, seek avery detail, and ask ourselves a multitude of questions, all of them along the line of:

There MUST be a catch somewhere, there MUST be a problem, because we cannot believe this Simulation of a german U-boot can be better than (insert your favourite subsim + supermod)

all the time we still hope it will be close to damn perfect...

Jimbuna

01-20-10, 12:52 PM

I'm beginning to sense that 'sinking' feeling.....but 'ever the optimist' I'm still hoping http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

HundertzehnGustav

01-20-10, 03:02 PM

we ill have to port the IX series from SHIV and SHIII

grumble...

urfisch

01-20-10, 03:15 PM

yapp, as many other things too!!! i wonder, if they open up the possibilíty, to create new animations, so we can have also fully modelled interiors in the other boats. i dont think so.

and i am quite curious, if we will be able to extend or change the campaign!!! this is going to be one of the most interesting things. cause i smell, the campaign may not be that changeable, we wish. with the dependence of actions taking place...and affecting your career/campaign. but, lets see...