[Poll] SH5 & you - One sub or more?

[Mikhayl]

---

[danlisa]

Voted for several.

It can't be accurately described as a simulation without the player having access to each and every U-Boat that went to sea.

Being limited to a single playable type makes the game a FPS in water. I have no interest in that.

[Ship Hunter]

Voted also for several subs.

Just playing the Type VII is lame ^^

I like the IX and the Type II at the begin of the war very much, it's interesting to do the first missions with this small boat.

What I personally don't need is a Type XXI or Type XXIII Submarine - but the three "important" war Boats II, VII and IX are a MUST in a Submarine Game about the Kriegsmarine.

[TarJak]

Must have at least the Types II, VII, IX and XXI.

[Apos]

I hope Ubi wont suprise us with tons of DLCs...10 euro per each new sub/mission? No way!

[mookiemookie]

Seeing as the Subsim new page has been updated to describe SH5 as a "Type VII U-boat interactive subsim" ( http://www.subsim.com/nucleus/index.php?blogid=4 ) then that's an ominous sign.

Say goodbye to Cape Town, Cape Hatteras and the Caribbean. :down:

[JScones]

Several. Happy with a II, VII and IX...would be even happier if modders could add more types without needing to replace/fudge an existing u-boat type.

[The General]

Well, not the most realistic poll I've ever seen, but this is how I broke the question down and think what our friend is getting at:


One Sub - Sim

Many Subs - Arcade

As a result, I had to vote for one sub.

[MH]

One detailed sub instead of few scetchy ones that play almost the same...

[Turbografx]

As you describe it, one detailed sub would suit me better. However, I know that sub would be a VII and I love me some II...

[Sailor Steve]

Several.

I disagree with Danlisa that having only one makes it an FPS game, but I also disagree with The General that having several makes it an arcade game.

Having only one can make it a true simulator, but only if everything on the boat is accurately represented and works exactly as the real thing did, and even then a true simulator would require 'hands-on' capability, which in turn would require a real u-boat interior to walk around in, and I mean really walk around in, not pretend to with a computer screen.

On the other hand, having all boats playable allows us to simulate a believable career, with all the variables that come with being forced to put to sea in an older training boat and hoping to be given a real ocean-going submarine before we retire.

Aces Of the Deep had all four major types, and for all its limitations was much more sim than arcade game. The same was true of Silent Hunter. As with SH3 and SH4, for all the complaints made about the last one. It may have it's faults, but arcade shooter it most definitely is not. Only SH2 comes close to being an FPS, with its 'level' one had to pass to go on to the next one.

Back when SH3 was in development someone said that he didn't need the 3D view and the 3D crew - he would be happy with AOD's gameplay and SH2's graphics. I have quoted that line several times in the six years since then, and I'd be happy with SH4 if everything worked properly. SH5 looks cool, but that wish still stands.

[Alex]

SH being a niche game and not evolving within the same category as FSX :hmm2:, maybe we'll have a chance to see some UK subs or italian subs add-on released later, but I don't think we'll ever see one featuring a single U-Boot type.
Also, do not forget that Type II, IX and XXI as well as the type VII definitely were all part of what's called the Battle of the Atlantic. For that reason I can't even imagine stock SH5 not including all of them U-Boote types.

I don't think it would be fair to script operation Paukenschlag in SH5 with the type VII as only playable unit available, forcing the player to refuel from a Milchkuh in the middle of the ocean before reaching the american east coast. :-?

[danlisa]

Sorry SS but I can't justify SH5 as a Simulation if it doesn't accurately depict the U-Boat War. To do that, surely, it must include all the operational U-Boat types and theaters of operation?

Then again, that raises an interesting question! Was the SH series designed to be a U-Boat Simulation (as in vessel) or a U-Boat War Simulation? Is SH5 a departure from the latter?

Edit - Perhaps I've been spoilt by the community campaign scripting so much that I only remember the historical realism of the actual conflict rather than the control of the vessel in question.

[Sailor Steve]

True, and put that way I do agree. I want them all, as I like imagining I'm a captain sailing the high seas. I don't want to tweak every button and pull every knob. My captain never did that. I did, and I hated it.

[danurve]

..
Also, do not forget that Type II, IX and XXI as well as the type VII definitely were all part of what's called the Battle of the Atlantic. ..:-?

I can't agree with that unless it's considered that the XXI helped to loose the Battle of the Atlantic. That's right, in the end all it did was consume resources to no avail. On the other hand if they scrapped the entire IX series for the XXI .. another useless debate though.

Back to the poll; had to vote for multiple subs. Even though I'd get the game if it was only a type VII. Seeing how it's the best sub to work with.

But come on, does anyone realy think the game will be limited like that?
I call BS.

[Jimbuna]

Several, Tpes II, VII, IX, XXI.........and XXIII.

[Méo]

Seeing as the Subsim new page has been updated to describe SH5 as a "Type VII U-boat interactive subsim" ( http://www.subsim.com/nucleus/index.php?blogid=4 ) then that's an ominous sign.

Say goodbye to Cape Town, Cape Hatteras and the Caribbean. :down:

I'm starting to understand why everyone is worried about the game...

Imagine if there's no wolfpacks, only type VII without wolfpacks... that would be :down::down::down:

Several. Happy with a II, VII and IX...would be even happier if modders could add more types without needing to replace/fudge an existing u-boat type.

Agreed, the type XXI can wait for a add-on or something.

[Mikhayl]

For me, if having only one sub means that the 100% realism option nuts get a crazy good experience, then I'm fine, although I love the type II.

I mean, if instead of modeling a type II and type IX with interior, they spent that time on coding accurate engine management, sub controls, and a very detailed damage model with technically accurate flooding, I'd find that just plain awesome.

Now of course if there's just one playable sub with not so much perceived added value over several subs, well meh.

Btw I'm surprised by the results so far, I didn't expect the difference to be so sharp. If the "hearsay" is true, UBI might have used a poll about that 1 year ago :)

[Alex]

I can't agree with that unless it's considered that the XXI helped to loose the Battle of the Atlantic. That's right, in the end all it did was consume resources to no avail. On the other hand if they scrapped the entire IX series for the XXI ..

I'm 200% (to say the least :D) sure that you Sir know what I meant.
Unlike the type XVIII Walter that never got a chance to sail as these boats were cancelled in favour of the XXI in 1944, quite a few XXI got commissioned ;) - though I agree with you, none of them sunk significant tonnage, as most if not all were used as training boats until the end of the war. :)

another useless debate though.

:O:

@ Jim : Aw you're right, I forgot the type XXIII ! :o :88)

[mookiemookie]

Imagine if there's no wolfpacks, only type VII without wolfpacks... that would be :down::down::down:

Agreed. I could somewhat understand only Type IX's with no wolfpacks, as those weren't wolfpack boats. But Type VII's with no wolfpacks? Not good. Not good at all.

[urfisch]

lol...whats this here? took some drinks at moe´s? you really thought there would be more than one sub to play with? no. there is only one sub, which also needs to be shared!!! only 50 players can play this at a time...all on their own station.

UHHGH!

:o

yeah, got ya.

[Sailor Steve]

"Oh, crud! I'm the number six torpedo-loader again? I hate this game!"
:rotfl2:

[TarJak]

Well if only the VII is modeled as playable in game then playing the Paukenschlag campaign will be a bit iffy!:hmmm:

Buggered if I want to get stuck halfway back across the Atlantic every time I pay the yanks a visit. The trip to Capetown or Argentina will also be a problem.

[Schultz]

I would preffer more subs and highly detailed

[Nisgeis]

I'm fine with a single sub, but I'd prefer more... so how do I vote?

[Ducimus]

All im going to say is, If all you get is a type 7, then your patrol areas are going to be very limited.

[finchOU]

I dont get it!!?!!??! why would you only be happy playing one sub...when you could have more? since you've had the option in the past? Its like a step back in time to want less. Kind of like Wolfpacks! hahah

[Hartmann]

Seeing as the Subsim new page has been updated to describe SH5 as a "Type VII U-boat interactive subsim" ( http://www.subsim.com/nucleus/index.php?blogid=4 ) then that's an ominous sign.

Say goodbye to Cape Town, Cape Hatteras and the Caribbean. :down:

Another interview say ..."unlock new areas" ..could be milk cows in the way to far grids ,or a "warp drive" key ??. :nope:

If there is only a one submarine type i would continue with sh3 sh4 campaigns because i always use big boats , the same in the PTO , i don´t like to be limited to 14 torpedoes and 5 tubes, compared with 22 and 6 tubes.
:down:

i´m starting to be very worried . I hope that developers give to the community more fresh info, videos and screenshots. if they want to release it early in 2010 the game must be in a very advanced state or nearly finished.

perhaps the date is for a VII version only and the other boats come later in addons :o

[Snestorm]

Especialy after seeing these poll numbers, I think this is a question the devs need to address.

[Sailor Steve]

What poll numbers? As I type this there are 138 members reading these forums, and in the many hours this has been up only 69 have voted so far.

Subsim has thousands of registered members, but not that many visit regularly and obviously a lot of the ones who do don't really care one way or the other. And the 500+ 'Stowaways' obviously can't be bothered, so they don't even count.

Who knows what the majority of people who will buy this really want?

[Sgtmonkeynads]

I had to vote for several. Sorry, kind of a hard choice, like closeing time at the bar. Do I go home with one hot chick, or two sort of hot chicks ?
But then again quality over quantity. I'd be happy with one photo realistic one like in those pics posted the other day.

[Jimbuna]

What poll numbers? As I type this there are 138 members reading these forums, and in the many hours this has been up only 69 have voted so far.

Subsim has thousands of registered members, but not that many visit regularly and obviously a lot of the ones who do don't really care one way or the other. And the 500+ 'Stowaways' obviously can't be bothered, so they don't even count.

Who knows what the majority of people who will buy this really want?

Precisely....all will be revealed in march http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[difool2]

For me, if having only one sub means that the 100% realism option nuts get a crazy good experience, then I'm fine, although I love the type II.

I mean, if instead of modeling a type II and type IX with interior, they spent that time on coding accurate engine management, sub controls, and a very detailed damage model with technically accurate flooding, I'd find that just plain awesome.

Ain't happening-did you get a chance to view those screenies with the digital torpedo panel? Looks like I'll likely be taking a pass on this if these things I've been seeing are in (or, in the case of the other subs, not in) the intial release.

[Mikhayl]

Well, the interface doesn't say anything about the level of detail of the simulation so we can keep hoping. Personally I don't mind the interface that much, except the odd left/right focus for the scope.

And, the interface is one aspect of the game that the devs guaranteed will be thoroughly moddable, though I hope it will good out of the box, above all with descent plotting/targetting tools. We need more screenshots :)

[Tomi_099]

Well, the interface doesn't say anything about the level of detail of the simulation so we can keep hoping. Personally I don't mind the interface that much, except the odd left/right focus for the scope.

And, the interface is one aspect of the game that the devs guaranteed will be thoroughly moddable, though I hope it will good out of the box, above all with descent plotting/targetting tools. We need more screenshots :)

####################

I simply add the question differently.:hmmm:

What can you expect for 50 euros a game like Silent Hunter 5

For the moderns 3D Tehnik not least .. half of the dynamics of SH3 as a little better graphics., Mar.

SH3 goes back several years....Hmmm !! who goas Silent Hunter 5 ...!!!:06:

[HundertzehnGustav]

no proper IX series with upgrades and proper systems right from the start?
not a fan of such an idea.

Not. at. all.

[karamazovnew]

Voted for "one sub". I love the Type VII and never use other boats. The Type 2 has too few eels, the IX has too many. XXI is just cheating... If they had only modeled the Type II, i'd cry :haha:

However I highly doubt we'll only see the Type VII.

[JU_88]

Its pretty obvious what most people want from SHV, -SH3 on steroids!. :DL
Cutting back on playable unit types - just have a full VII interior will be seen by most as a poor trade off.

Anyway its not as if the creation three sub types (exteriors and interior) is such a monster task for a crack team of professional 3d artists working overtime!
Plus once you got your Type 7 interior, you can use that as a base for your type 2 and 9.
Its not like they were all that different from each other!

[HundertzehnGustav]

Its pretty obvious what most people want from SHV, -SH3 on steroids!. :DL
Cutting back on playable unit types - just have a full VII interior will be seen by most as a poor trade off.

SHV better be Based off GWX3.0 Gold. That creation puts the bar that SH V has to pass by a very wide margin, in order to spend 50 Balls on.

one sub+crappy interface+"health bars"=not convinced. That does not spell subSIM to me, that spells SubGame.

*sits on the fence waiting for more indepth info*

[JU_88]

SHV better be Based off GWX3.0 Gold. That creation puts the bar that SH V has to pass by a very wide margin, in order to spend 50 Balls on.

one sub+crappy interface+"health bars"=not convinced. That does not spell subSIM to me, that spells SubGame.

*sits on the fence waiting for more indepth info*



Forget about the healthbars, if you cant turn them off in the options menu I will eat my own face and post it on youtube.
And it wont be 'a sub game', because Ubi knows that the simers dont want a 'game' and gamers dont want 'subs' :haha:

Anyway budge up abit because I want to sit on the fence too!

[HundertzehnGustav]

makes room for "Teh German Twinengined Divebomba"

If it is a SIM, with indepth systems and no BS, and the entire VII series be modeled from B to C/42... i might still be interested. But dude, a II/B or D, and at least a IX/B should defnitely be 'in'...

*sits on the fence, binoculats pointed towards the Horizon*

[LiveGoat]

I voted more subs. Sub upgrade is very important in a true dynamic campaign for me. Make the Type II interiors command room only, the type VII subs full interior with details and use the VII interior for the type IX and I'll be happy with that.

[Schultz]

In the trailer with sh5 presentation I saw a bigger list of U-boat not only one.

[Randomizer]

What no XB minelayers or VIIF torpedo transports? UBISoft ain't gettin my business...

On the other hand this may be a function of graphics development issues or perhaps just wild rumours driven by the lack of hard information thus far. All will be clear on release if not before.

[andycaccia]

Personally, I demand the presence of fully modeled types VII B, C, C-41; Type IX B, C-40, D2/D-42 and possibly the type XXI. Considering that type VII and IX have some sub-variants which do not need the full interior for each boat, the devs have to make "only" 3 sub interiors. This would give us at least 7 different u boat types.

[Platapus]

Given the limitations of the survey. I voted for one sub.

To me, it is quality over quantity

[Jimbuna]

All will be revealed in March http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Mikhayl]

What, the opinion of subsim members about quality over quantity or vice versa?

[Méo]

Given the limitations of the survey. I voted for one sub.

To me, it is quality over quantity

And what about if you get neither quality nor quantity?

Sorry, I'm starting to be a bit pessimist...:-?

[andycaccia]

C'mon!!! :DL

I don't really think UBI will screw us all with a pathetic single sub simulation...

[HundertzehnGustav]

LOL i will remember your post and rub your nose in it if its VII only:woot:

[lorka42]

C'mon!!! :DL

I don't really think UBI will screw us all with a pathetic single sub simulation...
oh you mean like the did with rainbow 6? http://www.nextgenboards.com/vb/rainbow-six-vegas-discussion/4366-screw-ubisoft.html

or HAWX http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2541006247/m/5901018067

anyone remember farcry2's flop?

/bashing ubi....

[andycaccia]

And than UBI will pay....:/\\chop

[Platapus]

Just wanted to check what people think about this :)

Option 1 is: Only one playable submarine, but very detailed, not just graphic-wise but also all the workings of the sub (physics, sub-systems, upgrades, you name it). Imagine some of those $30 add-on planes for Flight Simulator X.

Option 2 is: All historical subs playable, but given that the developping timeframe is identical, they are much less detailed, imagine something similar to SH3 brought up to 2009/2010 standards, good looking but nothing fancy technically speaking.

Short version: One (1) very detailed playable sub, or several (4/5) not so detailed playable subs?

Edit: my vote goes to the single sub, assuming that the "hyper detailed single sub SIM" isn't just wishful thinking :)

And what about if you get neither quality nor quantity?

Sorry, I'm starting to be a bit pessimist...:-?


This is why I stated "within the limitations of the poll" The two options we were given in the poll were one high quality sub or multiple lower quality subs. Given that choice I would choose option 1.

Your option of single low quality was not part of the survey. :)

It was a rather poorly worded survey after all.

[Mikhayl]

That's true, to sort it out I should make a new poll: have you voted after just reading the header of the poll (ie 1 or more), or did you actually read the description (the quality vs quantity thing) :D

[karamazovnew]

If you think about the great sims, they'll all about just one weapon: Falcon 4, Black Shark, M1 Tank Platoon 2, F15. Look at Battle of Britain 2. It only featured a few planes, but what great planes they were.

Now, out of the water, I'd say the Type VII is the sexiest war machine ever built:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/U995_2004_1.jpg

I wouldn't mind givin' her a ride even if she doesn't bring her ugly friends along.
http://www.hq.wwiionline.com/profiles/u_boat3.jpg

[Snestorm]

If you think about the great sims, they'll all about just one weapon: Falcon 4, Black Shark, M1 Tank Platoon 2, F15. Look at Battle of Britain 2. It only featured a few planes, but what great planes they were.

Now, out of the water, I'd say the Type VII is the sexiest war machine ever built:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/U995_2004_1.jpg

I wouldn't mind givin' her a ride even if she doesn't bring her ugly friends along.
http://www.hq.wwiionline.com/profiles/u_boat3.jpg

U505 (IXC) looks pretty sexy in Chicago.

And U123 (IXB), IN THE WATER, was the sexiest of them all.
(Yes, I know U48 (VIIB) was the most successful).

[JScones]

In the trailer with sh5 presentation I saw a bigger list of U-boat not only one.
IIRC it was merely a list of Type VII variations.

[Sgtmonkeynads]

He's right, it was a list of type VII variants. But it may have been a list of available subs for that historical mission. Also, i remember hearing about unlockables...so they could be more missions ( the trailor only shows two available), with different subs.

Also,again,..Has any one seen the campaign menu yet?
I'm gonna bet it will be just like the other games, differnt flottilas, with their subs and start dates.
Even if it is VII+varients only,the MOD GODS will fix all in time.

[Schultz]

I won't go in that tin can(IIA) even if you pay me 1 milion$, but in the VIIC I would go spining.

[Sailor Steve]

I won't go in that tin can(IIA) even if you pay me 1 milion$, but in the VIIC I would go spining.
Be grateful it's only a game. In real life you would go exactly where you were told, or you would go to prison. That's why I like the options for the lesser boats - sometimes life just sucks.

[HundertzehnGustav]

LOL whats safer... a Type II or prison?

Gimme jail time anytime!!

Nah... the little "Einbaum" is a challenging sub, fer sure!

[Sailor Steve]

Unless they decide it's wartime and the correct answer is to shoot you instead.

Then again, since it is only a game and I can't get hurt, I like taking the trash machines. It's more fun that bragging that I sank a million tons.:sunny:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Yep... Imagine that. :o
Dude... meh in a potential war?
I would pack my bags and run away beforehand. Dont care where i live, but being sent to "kill or be killed" by some dumb politician... never.

Makes me appreciate our Peace.

[mookiemookie]

Kretschmer started the war in a IIB. If its good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

[Jimbuna]

Kretschmer started the war in a IIB. If its good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

Precisely http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Brag]

Precisely http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

Historical fact: Krechner did not start the war.

:haha::haha::haha::haha::har::har::har::har:

[karamazovnew]

Historical fact: Krechner did not start the war.

:haha::haha::haha::haha::har::har::har::har:

Exactly, Poland did. :haha:

[THE_MASK]

I playable sub would be SH!THOUSE .

[karamazovnew]

I playable sub would be SH!THOUSE .

So based on Mikhayl's original intention on this poll, most think that:
1. A single detailed sub is sh!thouse.
2. More sh!tty subs would be nirvana.

:nope:

[Reece]

I playable sub would be SH!THOUSE .Agree, should atleast have the type 7 and 9,:yep: I don't like trying to go to USA in a type 7!!:nope:

[THE_MASK]

So based on Mikhayl's original intention on this poll, most think that:
1. A single detailed sub is sh!thouse.
2. More sh!tty subs would be nirvana.

:nope:
What i am saying is that SH5 should have at least type 2/7/9 . The level of detail that you can see in the screenshot of the engine room is fine .
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5103/60203silenthuntervscree.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/i/60203silenthuntervscree.jpg/)

[CaptainHaplo]

I expect they will at have the II, VII and IX at the minimum.

Honestly - if I don't land my D2 I am seriously not going to be happy. The VII was a sports car to that truck, but in it you have the range and firepower to really ruin a convoy's day.

The key here is that most players of SH3 loved the VII as the best, and it was historically the most numerous. But each player has their own preferences, and taking OUT boats from the series can only be seen as a step backwards for the franchise.

[Mikhayl]

I know it's way too late and could have been better explained from the start, but when I say "one quality sub", it's not just graphical quality but also how the sub behaves, physics, damage model, all this kind of details.

Now maybe in reality we'll have one so-so sub or several super quality subs, dunno, but I was interested to see whether subsimmers would take quality over quantity or vice versa. Study sim vs Survey sim (didn't know those terms).
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1237177&postcount=42

[HundertzehnGustav]

LOL i will remember your post and rub your nose in it if its VII only:woot:


Haaahhahahaha although i wish it wasnt so, my thoughts have been confirmed.

[Carotio]

A bit ironic that a poll like this shows a majority wishing all uboat types, and they only make the VII....

It may be the end of the genre, if the sales are low because of this....

I wish they would postpone the launch and make the final types plus the remaining part of the war. Of course, we don't know if that's the plan for an add on, but unless they clearly state that, this could cause a worse sale than SH4 was compared to SH3.

[Kapitanleutnant]

It may be the end of the genre, if the sales are low because of this....Now this is only my opinion, but I think people should stop thinking of the Silent Hunter series as "the genre" and feel obliged to support it no matter what. Ubisoft have cornered a niche market, but if they stopped making subsims that doesn't mean another developer wouldn't start their own series.
I won't be reinforcing/enabling Ubisoft's bad habits by buying SH5.
Certainly not until it's been extensively modded, at any rate.

[Ducimus]

>>This could cause a worse sale than SH4 was compared to SH3

Nah i doubt that. There are other factors that contributed to SH4 sales.

[JScones]

Now this is only my opinion, but I think people should stop thinking of the Silent Hunter series as "the genre" and feel obliged to support it no matter what. Ubisoft have cornered a niche market, but if they stopped making subsims that doesn't mean another developer wouldn't start their own series.
EXACTLY! :up:

I always shake my head everytime I read a statement like "I will buy it just to support the genre".

WRONG!

Buying SH5 does not support the genre at all; it merely supports Ubisoft who just happens to realise that they can get away with making half-arsed, half-finished attempts at Subsims knowing that Lemmings will continue to pay them to do so. Ubisoft must laugh uncontrollably whenever they read such a statement! They certainly rub their hands together with glee and dollar signs in their eyes.

"Silent Hunter" is not a genre. Submarine simulation is a genre. The former is a subset of the latter, it is NOT the latter.

If people don't like SH5, they should simply not buy it. That gives Ubisoft a clear message. And what's the worse thing that can happen? We go without a new Subsim for a few years because Ubisoft pull out of the genre (indeed, it's my bet that they will anyway, or if they do go with an SH6, it will be console only and even further "left of centre" than where SH5 appears to be taking the series). So what? Hardly an issue if people think their product is not up to standard anyway. I mean, how many people have stuck with SH3 because they thought SH4 sucked?

Look at it from the other side...continuing to misguidedly pay Ubisoft to "support the genre" may actually do more harm than good. Whilst Ubisoft are "here", other smaller development teams are not. If Ubisoft misses the point of "player backlash" and decides to pull out of the genre altogether, then I can assure everyone that it will just be a matter of time before a smaller development team that does take the genre seriously steps in and tries their hand at producing something. And frankly, I look forward to that rather than a half-arsed, half-finished, XBOX only SH6...

(NB: This is my opinion. It is not meant to be your opinion. Any suggestion that this is your opinion is entirely coincidental. Still, flak suit on for the expected...)

[Iron Budokan]

I don't like the limitation of one sub, or the game ending in '43 when stuff starts to get really hard. :DL

[elanaiba]

I believe you are diminishing the merits of early war uboat captains and crews. They didn't have it that easy.

[Jimbuna]

@Dan

Is there anything at all you can enlighten us with on the topic/subject of additional U-boat types and an extention of gameplay to 1945 in future addons?