USN Dazzle Colors in World War I?

[tigone]

Can anyone point me to an authoritative source (online or in print) on the specific colors used by the USN in World War I dazzle schemes? I have good photos defining the pattern, but identification of specific colors is difficult, especially given the limitations of orthochromatic film used at the time.

I'm familiar with Floating Drydock, shipcamouflage.com and the Rhode Island School of Design website, but none of these deal specifically with the USN in World War I.

Andy Hall
maritimetexas.net

[Dowly]

I have to say that I'm not familiar with WWI camo, but looking at some of WWII dazzle camos it seems that they didnt use the "official" colors, but colors with higher contrast i.e. black and white. :hmmm:

[tigone]

While there was some "freelancing" during the war -- usually when new camouflage instructions were unclear or specific colors were unavailable -- the USN tried many different patterns (http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measures.htm) (or "measures") during the war, especially in the Pacific, and issued extensive guidelines and patterns (keyed to specific classes of ships) for their use. Obviously some were better than others for specific purposes, but the Navy put a lot of effort and bureaucratic process into developing them. It wasn't a haphazard business, even if some of the resulting schemes look like they were made up on the spot.

The black and white dazzle patterns you've seen are likely variations of Measures 31 (http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_31.htm) and 32 (http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_32.htm).

[Sailor Steve]

As for the OP's original question concerning dazzle in the FIRST World War, this might be a good place to start:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0vomT0cjY9IC&pg=PA40&client=firefox-a&vq=%22are+objectionable.+The+contrast+between+juxt aposed+units+or+between+some+of+the+units+and+the+ sky+background+tends+to+increase%22&source=gbs_quotes_r&cad=2_0#v=onepage&q=%22are%20objectionable.%20The%20contrast%20betwe en%20juxtaposed%20units%20or%20between%20some%20of %20the%20units%20and%20the%20sky%20background%20te nds%20to%20increase%22&f=false

There is a fairly complete description of each scheme used, and some great pictures to boot.

Ignore my link which starts in the middle and go to the top. You'll love it!


This might also be of some help:
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/1_4.htm

[tigone]

Excellent. That book is on the way.

Amazon is gonna be the death of me yet.

Thanks muchly.

[iambecomelife]

While there was some "freelancing" during the war -- usually when new camouflage instructions were unclear or specific colors were unavailable -- the USN tried many different patterns (http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measures.htm) (or "measures") during the war, especially in the Pacific, and issued extensive guidelines and patterns (keyed to specific classes of ships) for their use. Obviously some were better than others for specific purposes, but the Navy put a lot of effort and bureaucratic process into developing them. It wasn't a haphazard business, even if some of the resulting schemes look like they were made up on the spot.

The black and white dazzle patterns you've seen are likely variations of Measures 31 (http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_31.htm) and 32 (http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_32.htm).

Both those pics are of WWII vessels; did they actually have those same measures back in 1914-1918?

[tigone]

No, the USN didn't use the same measures in WWI, although some patterns were similar in both appearance and effect. Dowly's post (No. 2 above) specifically referred to WWII examples he'd seen, so that's what I responded to. My post (No. 3 above) was referring entirely to WWII, so I got a little off-topic there. Sorry for not being clear about which was I was talking about.

The book suggested by Sailor Steve (No. 4 above) -- which I'd seen listed elsewhere but was unfamiliar with the contents -- actually has a description of the colors used by the USN during WWI that, while somewhat general, will at least give me a running start on guessing at the colors in the black-and-white images of the ship in question.

[Sailor Steve]

My post (No. 3 above) was referring entirely to WWII, so I got a little off-topic there. Sorry for not being clear about which was I was talking about.
:rotfl2:

Here I was slamming the OTHER guy for not sticking to the topic, and didn't realize it was the SAME guy!:damn::oops::rotfl2:

The book suggested by Sailor Steve (No. 4 above) -- which I'd seen listed elsewhere but was unfamiliar with the contents -- actually has a description of the colors used by the USN during WWI that, while somewhat general, will at least give me a running start on guessing at the colors in the black-and-white images of the ship in question.
The funny part is that I was dimly aware that there was some information out there, but not sure on the specifics. I just googled "ship camouflage world war one". It was actually the Wikipedia page on the subject that had the link to that book.:rock:

[tigone]

Thanks to all who responded to this thread. Williams' Naval Camouflage, 1914-1945: A Complete Visual Reference (http://www.amazon.com/Naval-Camouflage-1914-1945-Complete-Reference/dp/1557504962) is a great source. While even that work cannot identify precise colors on individual ships, it narrows down the possibilities considerably, and makes it possible to make some reasonable conjecture. First efforts here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36584779@N05/sets/72157623114685169/).