View Full Version : Vet. claims Avatar portrays marines as psycho...
SteamWake
01-12-10, 10:34 AM
I havent seen the movie myself but this headline caught my attention.
Balcer is a decorated Marine veteran of the Vietnam war, and now he's going into battle against the film that may turn out to be the biggest moneymaker of all time. He hates the film's message, and he's not alone.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/Avatar.Balcer.negative.2.1412100.html
Between this and the claims of the plot rip off from Pochantis (sp?) I sometimes wonder if they arent just stirring up buzz to garner interest.
Torvald Von Mansee
01-12-10, 11:20 AM
None of this has kept "Avatar" from becoming a huge moneymaker all over the world.
Of course, stupidity isn't exactly a liability when it comes to being a best seller..
http://samuelatgilgal.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/going_rogue_sarah-palin.jpg
I don't think it did, after all, two of the 'good guys' were Marines. :hmmm:
Skybird
01-12-10, 11:44 AM
Offended vanity - that's all.
Mercenaries will hate you if you correctly label them "mercenaries", and soldiers don't like their profession being associated with the bad guys.
Usually American media and Hollywood paints an extremely glorifying picture of the military, which also enjoys far more social prestige in society than you see it in Europe, and especially Germany of course. I remember that some years ago somebody wrote me in the forum that his problem with "our" war movies was that they are not shining, but always so depressing. Okay, that's just an individual comment, but it speaks volumes on the differences between cultures. What is "glory & heroism" for the one side, may border "militarism" for the other.
Weiss Pinguin
01-12-10, 02:19 PM
I can see how some people might think the soldiers were portrayed as psycho, but IMO they were more 'gung ho' than anything. And IIRC the marines in Avatar were hired as security for the mining op.
He's after money. Dozens of films have portrayed marines as war-loving nutcases before Avatar.
Besides, Avatar takes place in a fantasy world, it doesnt even try to be realistic. How can a RL marine be offended how marines are portrayed as in a fantasy movie?
Riiiiiiidiculous. :yep:
EDIT: Ok, I just finished reading the article and wow... just wow. Are we even sure he is a marine? Sounds like a cry-baby to me.
Some of the angles that people are attacking this film on are incredible, anti-Christian, pro-Environmental, well, yeah but so was Pocahontas!
It mirrors many other real life and fictional tales of conquest and exploitation and the destruction of the native population.
In times like this I oft feel like quoting my favourite novel:
"And before we judge them [the aliens] too harshly, we must remember what ruthless and utter destruction our own species has wrought, not only upon animals, such as the vanished bison and the dodo, but upon its own inferior races. The Tasmanians, in spite of their human likeness, were entirely swept out of existence in a war of extermination waged by European immigrants, in the space of fifty years. Are we such apostles of mercy as to complain if the Martians warred in the same spirit?"
So, yes, it's a bit preachy, and yes the storyline is predictable and most of the so-called plot twists could be seen coming a mile off, and it certainly aimed to bring a fair few Vietnam elements into it, but then again if you're fighting a native species in a forest then there's bound to be elements of 'nam ringing in it, and perhaps that's what has got some of these people all stirred up. However, at the end of the day, the lead character, the protaganist in this story is a Marine, one of my favourite characters, the girl chopper pilot (Trudy Chacón) is a Marine and she's on the 'good side'. So it's not so much Marine vs Nature, it's Humanity vs Humanity vs Economy vs Nature.
Plus, I love the name of the mineral "Unobtanium" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium )
And the human mechs and gunships are pretty darn awesome too! :rock:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41V2m-noMtL.jpg
Although...can you say Orca? :hmmm:
Col. Caldwell
01-12-10, 03:25 PM
None of this has kept "Avatar" from becoming a huge moneymaker all over the world.
Of course, stupidity isn't exactly a liability when it comes to being a best seller..
http://samuelatgilgal.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/going_rogue_sarah-palin.jpg
lol And apparently it also earns you a spot as a commentator on Fox News. :rotfl2:
Blacklight
01-12-10, 03:36 PM
Hardcore right wingers are REALLY up in arms over Avatar. You should have heard Rush Limbaugh rallying against it the other day (Yeah, I'm an EXTREME lefty, but I do occasionally listen to the righties sometimes just to hear the opposing viewpoints). There were conservatives yelling and screaming everything from "portraying big business as being sinister and irresponsible, and greedy", "Our military is evil and totalitarian" to "Paganism and teaching anti-Christian values". Aparently, a lot of hardcore right wingers see this movie as an attack on everything they hold dear and claim that it's part of a mass media conspiracy to brainwash kids to think that conservative, right wing values are evil, self serving, and detrimental.
Apparently... EVERYTHING is a conspiracy against The Right according to our friend Rush. :nope:
Dude. It's just a MOVIE !
And yes... there ARE SOME rings of TRUTH in the movie's message regardless of what people claim about it. There are SO MANY examples of the truth behind it's message.
XabbaRus
01-12-10, 04:24 PM
Well the left wing are up in arms because Avatar is racist apparently.
They are saying it perpetuates the white mesiah saving the natives from themselves idea.
I personally think there are so many people who have nothing better to do than get offended and read too much into things.
Blacklight
01-12-10, 04:51 PM
I personally think there are so many people who have nothing better to do than get offended and read too much into things.
No kidding. IT'S ONLY A FREAKIN' MOVIE !!! :nope:
Skybird
01-12-10, 04:54 PM
The churches' criticism of Harry Potter being always on my mind... :haha:
Maybe not everything being said by just somebody, vet or church, should always been taken seriously enough as to dedicate media time to it. ;) Some things and claims and statements are just this: too stupid as if they deserve to be taken note of and spending time with. that'S true for the Harry Potter criticism, and it seems to me it is true for Avatar, too.
Aye, that's true enough, the media these days seems to serve as a bandwagon for any nutjob with an agenda or an axe to grind to spout off a load of rubbish. Makes wading through the spam to find the steak all the more annoying. :hmmm:
SteamWake
01-12-10, 06:06 PM
Again, sometimes I think this kind of thing is brought forth solely to create buzz about the movie.
Aramike
01-12-10, 06:20 PM
Now Avatar is causing depression and suicidal thoughts:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.blues/index.html
"One can say my depression was twofold: I was depressed because I really wanted to live in Pandora, which seemed like such a perfect place, but I was also depressed and disgusted with the sight of our world, what we have done to Earth. I so much wanted to escape reality," Hill said.He "so much wanted to escape reality"???
Sounds like he already has. :yep:
Platapus
01-12-10, 06:56 PM
Between this and the claims of the plot rip off from Pochantis (sp?) I sometimes wonder if they arent just stirring up buzz to garner interest.
I don't think anyone is claiming it is a rip off. Evidently it is the same plot of the movie "A man called Horse".
I have not seen the movie either. Will probably add it to my netflix account... or not. Depends on what else is out there.
Platapus
01-12-10, 07:01 PM
Balcer says the film makes Marines "look like lunatics." In reality, he said, "We are a good, generous country that helps people."
Balcer's comments might mean something, and I might even care what he thinks, if Avatar was being marketed as a documentary or a non-fiction movie. But it is not. It is a FICTION movie. Nothing in the move is real nor is it intended to be real. That's the whole idea behind fiction.
So in real life marines can be the good guys and in a fictional movie they can be the bad guys.....why? because it is fiction.
[Fiction refers to books and stories about imaginary people and events, rather than books about real people or events.[/quote
http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en|en&hl=en&q=fiction
I guess people like Balcer feel they have to bitch about something. :nope:
nikimcbee
01-12-10, 07:18 PM
Expensive graphics aside:doh:, Avatar is nothing more than Liberal, whiteman's guilt on display. It's only a movie, if you don't like it, don't see it. When I saw it, this was the first thing I thought of:
(Avatar, the non-3D version:haha:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJFYwRtrH4
I still stand by my review of it: It's Dances with wolves story with Shaka zulu characters, set in Jurrasic park.:yawn:
I didn't think it was that bad, I just rolled my eyes when they got to the preachy part.
Platapus
01-12-10, 07:34 PM
I still stand by my review of it: It's Dances with wolves story with Shaka zulu characters, set in Jurrasic park.:yawn:
Is it "Dances with wolves" or "A man called Horse" I have heard both. Which did you think was closer?
CaptainHaplo
01-12-10, 07:49 PM
Its more like "A man called Horse who Dances with Wolves - badly".
Wolfehunter
01-12-10, 10:29 PM
Hardcore right wingers are REALLY up in arms over Avatar. You should have heard Rush Limbaugh rallying against it the other day (Yeah, I'm an EXTREME lefty, but I do occasionally listen to the righties sometimes just to hear the opposing viewpoints). There were conservatives yelling and screaming everything from "portraying big business as being sinister and irresponsible, and greedy", "Our military is evil and totalitarian" to "Paganism and teaching anti-Christian values". Aparently, a lot of hardcore right wingers see this movie as an attack on everything they hold dear and claim that it's part of a mass media conspiracy to brainwash kids to think that conservative, right wing values are evil, self serving, and detrimental.
Apparently... EVERYTHING is a conspiracy against The Right according to our friend Rush. :nope:
Dude. It's just a MOVIE !
And yes... there ARE SOME rings of TRUTH in the movie's message regardless of what people claim about it. There are SO MANY examples of the truth behind it's message.Yup I love the movie too. They have nothing better to do than whine.. Well that's there right I guess... :yeah:
Not like its going to change anything... Money talks everything else walks... :O:
They have nothing better to do than whine.. Well that's there right I guess... :yeah:
Apparently you missed Xabbas most excellent reply:
Well the left wing are up in arms because Avatar is racist apparently.
They are saying it perpetuates the white mesiah saving the natives from themselves idea.
I personally think there are so many people who have nothing better to do than get offended and read too much into things.
Both sides have their whiners.
nikimcbee
01-13-10, 01:49 AM
Is it "Dances with wolves" or "A man called Horse" I have heard both. Which did you think was closer?
It's been a looooooooooong since I've seen the "Horse" one. The motives are different between Avatar and DwW. In Avatar, the motive is bad, in DwW, Costner dosen't have much of a choice, as there is no one else on the praire to talk to. Plus the Army in DwW was out there to protect settlers from the American Indians.
Weiss Pinguin
01-13-10, 10:56 AM
I guess it was kind of like A Man Called Horse, except instead of being captured, his whole goal was to get in with the natives, and that kinda changes his motives. It was like a lot of movies lol
Catfish
01-13-10, 01:07 PM
Hello,
it is certainly a break to the usually glorified Hollywood phantasies they call "war".
Guess Mr. Balcer would have liked the 1943 propaganda film with H. Bogart "Action in the North Atlantic" better, the bad guys are where they belong like germans gunning down shipwrecked sailors and their commander wearing a white silk scarf - or maybe "U-571" ? I heard submarine veterans gave standing ovations after the premiere of this lousy piece of concocted history.
Or maybe he is just still uninformed about with what greater intentions he was sent to 'nam, or wherever ? Helping the people, really !
Yes i'm biased, i think Avatar was a damn good film, better than a lot i saw in the last 10 years. And yes, "Avatar " is anti-military from its message (if not from the pictures, and action scenes lol) so according to Balcer it certainly must be anti-american :O:
Greetings,
Catfish
So, a marine has sand in vagina because of Pocahontas-2099 teh movie ?
Like, there's no real problems about.
Blacklight
01-13-10, 06:13 PM
So, a marine has sand in vagina because of Pocahontas-2099 teh movie ?
More like "Dances With Wolves" 2009 on an alien planet.
Tribesman
01-13-10, 06:33 PM
"This is the only time I ever sat in a theater where people were cheering the forest and the blue people, attacking ex-Marines," Roeser said.
I wonder how many films with blue people in Tom Roeser has watched?
Wolfehunter
01-14-10, 02:10 PM
Apparently you missed Xabbas most excellent reply:
Both sides have their whiners.Good point. :up:
Neptunus Rex
01-14-10, 07:20 PM
Must not have paid much attention to the movie. Though they MAY have BEEN Marines, they're former military working for a corporation.
They're called mercenaries I believe.
kiwi_2005
01-14-10, 07:25 PM
I thought the marines were cool. That gun ho sgt made the movie - sipping coffee in his helicopter while giving orders. Thats one calm marine! :)
I thought the marines were cool. That gun ho sgt made the movie - sipping coffee in his helicopter while giving orders. Thats one calm marine! :)
I thought he was trying to look too much like Col. Kilgore from Apocalypse Now.
Terragon
01-14-10, 10:00 PM
I never liked Hollywood's portrayal of military men, for the most part.
Only a few exceptions, like "Platoon", "Das Boot", or even "Full Metal Jacket" I thought were pretty good. Even "Saving Private Ryan" was - human. A soldier is just a guy trying to do an ugly job. No matter how you spin it, you mention the glory, medals, victory, all that other stuff... It's just not true. I was in the AF for a little bit, and that's not what it was about.
Sure, I wanted to do my duty to my country, but it ended up being close to a group of guys and watching out for one another. Above all, do your job as best as you can.
Platapus
01-15-10, 08:59 PM
I never liked Hollywood's portrayal of military men, for the most part.
Enemy Below. :yeah:
Hollywood is by definition all about fantasy but I must admit they have raised the realism bar somewhat in recent years. Not that they could have lowered it any. :DL
Some of my more recent favorites:
We Were Soldiers
Blackhawk Down
When Trumpets Fade
Band of Brothers (the upcoming sequel promises to be as good as the original)
Generation Kill
Catfish
01-16-10, 06:31 AM
Hello,
only some nitpicking:
" ... Only a few exceptions, like "Platoon", "Das Boot", or even "Full Metal Jacket" I thought were pretty good ..."
I second those were good ones, but "Das Boot" was a german production, NOT Hollywood :D
"Band of brothers" and "Saving Private Ryan", well while i think those are good entertaining films, there's not too much reality in them. Bit too much propaganda for my taste but entertaining films they are.
:up:
Greetings,
Catfish
Snestorm
01-16-10, 09:28 AM
Stalingrad was done fairly well.
Ah, Stalingrad was great. :yep:
"Band of brothers" and "Saving Private Ryan", well while i think those are good entertaining films, there's not too much reality in them. Bit too much propaganda for my taste but entertaining films they are.
:up:
Greetings,
Catfish
Propaganda, in Band of Brothers? Where?
Col. Caldwell
01-16-10, 09:58 AM
Propaganda, in Band of Brothers? Where?
Yeah, I haven't seen any in Band of Brothers. That was a pretty realistic miniseries.
OneToughHerring
01-16-10, 10:27 AM
Propaganda, in Band of Brothers? Where?
Well it's all propaganda to an extent, especially the big productions like BoB and Ryan. I guess people can say that they like a certain production over another but it's all subjective.
Even if you were to take a film camera to a real war and film it would still be a slanted view depending on where in the battlefield you are filming and what you are filming etc.
XabbaRus
01-16-10, 10:36 AM
Stalingrad was done fairly well.
Stalingrad is a German film too. Only the Germans could make a great film out of a battle where they got wiped out.
Well it's all propaganda to an extent, especially the big productions like BoB and Ryan. I guess people can say that they like a certain production over another but it's all subjective.
Even if you were to take a film camera to a real war and film it would still be a slanted view depending on where in the battlefield you are filming and what you are filming etc.
OTH, people can point at a pig and call it a duck but that don't make it an accurate identification.
The word "propaganda" implies government involvement and direction with the writing and production, and not just with technical details like what rifle or uniform is correct for the time period being portrayed but rather controlling the storyline itself to generate a particular impression on the countries involved. This does not happen in BoB. The government did not tell Ambrose what to write or Spielberg what to film.
OneToughHerring
01-16-10, 11:56 AM
OTH, people can point at a pig and call it a duck but that don't make it an accurate identification.
The word "propaganda" implies government involvement and direction with the writing and production, and not just with technical details like what rifle or uniform is correct for the time period being portrayed but rather controlling the storyline itself to generate a particular impression on the countries involved. This does not happen in BoB. The government did not tell Ambrose what to write or Spielberg what to film.
So what you're saying is that it's 'mild' propaganda? They do have an agenda, the producers and financiers of present day Hollywood movies, just follow the money and you may find it.
So what you're saying is that it's 'mild' propaganda? They do have an agenda, the producers and financiers of present day Hollywood movies, just follow the money and you may find it.
Ah I see, so you have no real clue, just a general belief that the evil US governments tentacles must be involved somehow in anything that remotely portrays my country or my people in a favorable manner.
Message understood.
nikimcbee
01-16-10, 02:09 PM
Hello,
only some nitpicking:
" ... Only a few exceptions, like "Platoon", "Das Boot", or even "Full Metal Jacket" I thought were pretty good ..."
I second those were good ones, but "Das Boot" was a german production, NOT Hollywood :D
"Band of brothers" and "Saving Private Ryan", well while i think those are good entertaining films, there's not too much reality in them. Bit too much propaganda for my taste but entertaining films they are.
:up:
Greetings,
Catfish
..to nit-pick your nit-picking:D:haha:
I totally agree with your opinion of Ryan, not much reality there except for the violence, but I disagree on BoB. I have met personally several of the actual men and got to talk to them:salute:. There are parts of the show that are totally realistic (the history behind it). The directors changed weird things from the actual events. example: the nazi american guy from oregon. He was from Portland and not Eugene (as the show said.)
OneToughHerring
01-16-10, 02:17 PM
Ah I see, so you have no real clue, just a general belief that the evil US governments tentacles must be involved somehow in anything that remotely portrays my country or my people in a favorable manner.
Message understood.
No you clearly misunderstood, possible due to low brain wattage or some other similar reason. Propagandistic messages aren't created and delivered only by nations, private companies and corporations also take part in the creation of propaganda.
nikimcbee
01-16-10, 02:20 PM
Stalingrad is a German film too. Only the Germans could make a great film out of a battle where they got wiped out.
...and has a typical German ending.:haha: (good film though)
@xabbarus; which Russian warfilms do you like?
Catfish
01-16-10, 02:42 PM
Hello,
us germans also have some alert levels, from XabbaRus in another post:
"> The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful
> Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also
> have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose". "
Hehe sad endings have a tradition here, we are always working on perfecting those traditions and what we began. To be german means to do something for the sake of itself :smug:
B.t.w. I only meant this "propaganda" to be found in "Private Ryan", not "Band of Brothers" - and prop. is most probably not the right word, but PRyan makes the invasion and the figthing in Normandy look like a cake walk and heroic in a Hollywood way. And is there any real (non Hollywood) evidence that the US army gave a damn about whether one more member of a family died in the war, not mentioning sending out a unit to save him ?
Greetings,
Catfish
nikimcbee
01-16-10, 02:48 PM
Hello,
us germans also have some alert levels, from XabbaRus in another post:
"> The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful
> Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also
> have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose". "
Hehe sad endings have a tradition here, we are always working on perfecting those traditions and what we began. To be german means to do something for the sake of itself :smug:
B.t.w. I only meant this "propaganda" to be found in "Private Ryan", not "Band of Brothers" - and prop. is most probably not the right word, but PRyan makes the invasion and the figthing in Normandy look like a cake walk and heroic in a Hollywood way. And is there any real (non Hollywood) evidence that the US army gave a damn about whether one more member of a family died in the war, not mentioning sending out a unit to save him ?
Greetings,
Catfish
Maybe hollywood hoopla.
evidence that the US army gave a damn about whether one more member of a family died in the war
There is, but I doubt they would pull a ranger squad away from the invasion to go look for them.:doh:
No you clearly misunderstood, possible due to low brain wattage or some other similar reason. Propagandistic messages aren't created and delivered only by nations, private companies and corporations also take part in the creation of propaganda.
Obviously we work from different dictionaries.
Woot! OTH on it again! :rock:
but PRyan makes the invasion and the figthing in Normandy look like a cake walk and heroic in a Hollywood way.
That's amazing, did we even see the same movie? How can you describe the beach landing scene, or indeed any of the movies battle scenes, as a "cake walk"? In nearly every they lost people, and not in heroic ways either but bloody and horrific ways.
OneToughHerring
01-16-10, 03:57 PM
I saw Ryan when it came out in the movies. With a good surround sound system the opening scene was pretty good, and didn't have the usual CGI-overflow that many present day movies have.
However upon recent viewing I began to notice those 'cute' Spielberg-moments and the visceral impact of the opening scene had gone and I just remembered why he should stick to making movies about fluffy space aliens and the sort.
Catfish
01-16-10, 04:11 PM
Hello NikiMcBee,
You wrote:
" ... Maybe hollywood hoopla.
Quote:
' evidence that the US army gave a damn about whether one more member of a family died in the war '
There is, but I doubt they would pull a ranger squad away from the invasion to go look for them.:doh: ... "
I certainly meant sending out a ranger squad, not that they would not care about their dead soldiers, my fault sorry !
@August:
I still think that how the brave inspired US troops fought against this thoroughly villain, but however "helpless SS" doomed to lose, was not how it really was, as far as i read it was much more gruesome - both sides - but then you probably do not want to show this in a film.
Greetings,
Catfish
I saw Ryan when it came out in the movies. With a good surround sound system the opening scene was pretty good,
I thought the opening scene in the cemetery in Normandy was actually way too sentimental and had no real surround sound effects. The second scene when you see the landing on the other hand was not too badly done and the sound effects with a good surround system were excellent.:know:
OneToughHerring
01-16-10, 09:04 PM
I thought the opening scene in the cemetery in Normandy was actually way too sentimental and had no real surround sound effects. The second scene when you see the landing on the other hand was not too badly done and the sound effects with a good surround system were excellent.:know:
Oh yea the effing flag waving. And again in the end. And there's August claiming there's no propaganda in the movie. :rotfl2:
Oh yea the effing flag waving. And again in the end. And there's August claiming there's no propaganda in the movie. :rotfl2:
I never claimed that. I disagreed with the idea that the battle scenes were depicted as "heroic cake walks". Do try to keep up.
nikimcbee
01-17-10, 12:22 AM
That's amazing, did we even see the same movie? How can you describe the beach landing scene, or indeed any of the movies battle scenes, as a "cake walk"? In nearly every they lost people, and not in heroic ways either but bloody and horrific ways.
okay, here we go; game on: Ryan vs BoB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZgKo46X8CI&feature=related
beach part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKpn0Hbb_Jg&feature=related
Spielberg hollywood part: (look at all those tigers:haha:) all of these parts remind me more of a video game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntSnoVEwYOQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8SebJtPKuk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B4NXV8qyg4&feature=related
BoB:
(the luger part really happened: you stoopid mick:har:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FLpL2FBGTw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y5_OTSW-wk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncC0lOJPYRw&feature=related
Why I like BoB more and it wins hands down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0HTlG-rnVM&feature=related
okay, here we go; game on: Ryan vs BoB
Game over before it even started. As a former Paratrooper I am biased to BoB over those leg Rangers in SPR.
nikimcbee
01-17-10, 12:38 AM
Game over before it even started. As a former Paratrooper I am biased to BoB over those leg Rangers in SPR.
Jar my memory: 82nd or 101st?
Jar my memory: 82nd or 101st?
10th SFG(A)
Somebody here really likes We Were Soldiers?:huh:
"I will be ... the first ... man ... on ... the ... ground ... and ... the ... last ... man ... off!"
*cue cringe worthy slow motion when he steps off the helicopter, and later back on*
Also, the scene where he talks to the recruits about the new helicopters, turns around and whooosh! it screams by.:rotfl2:
I like war movies but that one was a stinker.
OneToughHerring
01-17-10, 08:23 AM
The very final scene of We Were Soldiers is of the Vietnamese general or something who walks through the battle field and says something like "The Americans think they won but they've just prolonged the war" which I thought was a pretty good way to end an otherwise pretty stereotypical war movie.
And from what I've read there was a lot of picking and choosing and artistic licence when it comes to the subject matter of the movie. In reality there was no heroic final charge by the Americans but infact a really deadly ambush that the Vietnamese pulled off.
Somebody here really likes We Were Soldiers?:huh:
"I will be ... the first ... man ... on ... the ... ground ... and ... the ... last ... man ... off!"
*cue cringe worthy slow motion when he steps off the helicopter, and later back on*
Also, the scene where he talks to the recruits about the new helicopters, turns around and whooosh! it screams by.:rotfl2:
I like war movies but that one was a stinker.
Are you claiming that those two incidents never occurred?
OneToughHerring
01-17-10, 10:38 AM
I never claimed that. I disagreed with the idea that the battle scenes were depicted as "heroic cake walks". Do try to keep up.
So you like propaganda movies?
Yes, I claim that the commander did not step off and on the helicopter in slow motion to pompous music. I also find it hard to believe they timed that flyby in real life.:salute:
Torvald Von Mansee
01-17-10, 12:29 PM
Oh yea the effing flag waving. And again in the end. And there's August claiming there's no propaganda in the movie. :rotfl2:
Right. Why would there be an American flag flying over a cemetery maintained by the American Battle Monuments Commission containing almost entirely American servicemen? At the beginning and end of a war movie following American soldiers, showing them being killed and horribly maimed. Really, it makes MUCH more sense to show, say, the flag of Bhutan.
OneToughHerring
01-17-10, 12:53 PM
Right. Why would there be an American flag flying over a cemetery maintained by the American Battle Monuments Commission containing almost entirely American servicemen? At the beginning and end of a war movie following American soldiers, showing them being killed and horribly maimed. Really, it makes MUCH more sense to show, say, the flag of Bhutan.
Of course it's ok to have a US flag at the beginning of SPR. And it was equally ok for the Germans to make movies about Jewish people before and during WW 2. They made perfect sense also.
Skybird
01-17-10, 03:45 PM
Most popular war movies I do not like. Those that I liked, are:
A thin red Line (strange that nobody mentioned it so far)
Das Boot
Die Brücke
Band of Brothers (much better than Private Ryan)
Apocalypse Now
Two popular but very overestimated movies, imo, are Kubrick'S Full Metal Jacket (although I like three of his movies very much, this is none of them), and Platoon.
Many war movies suffer from one of two things, or both: they are entertaining for the sake of being entertaining, and/or they are ridiculously pathetic.
Both makes mockery of the dead.
nikimcbee
01-17-10, 05:56 PM
Are you claiming that those two incidents never occurred?
:hmmm:
Hal Moore stuff:
http://www.lzxray.com/
The book:
http://www.amazon.com/Were-Soldiers-Once-Young-Drang/dp/0060975768
When we step on the battlefield, I will be
The First Boots On and the Last Boots Off.
- LtG. Hal Moore
This isn't just about military combat, although hands-on leadership is key to victory in war.
This isn't just about leadership, although leading by example creates a degree of loyalty and overall success that cannot be achieved through issuing orders from a lofty office.
For each of us, life is the battlefield. The key to success, and to happiness, is being fully engaged in life - leading yourself with inspiration and committed action - setting your own fine and honorable example.
:salute:
Torvald Von Mansee
01-17-10, 06:16 PM
Hmmm...I'm looking forward to the Pacific version of BoB. I thought it had already aired in Australia? That would mean it would be available on the interwebs via...alternative means.
MothBalls
01-17-10, 06:28 PM
Most popular war movies I do not like. Those that I liked, are:
A thin red Line (strange that nobody mentioned it so far)
Das Boot
Die Brücke
Band of Brothers (much better than Private Ryan)
Apocalypse Now
Two popular but very overestimated movies, imo, are Kubrick'S Full Metal Jacket (although I like three of his movies very much, this is none of them), and Platoon.
Many war movies suffer from one of two things, or both: they are entertaining for the sake of being entertaining, and/or they are ridiculously pathetic.
Both makes mockery of the dead.
Good choices. One war movie that had the greatest impact on me was Schindler's List. I've seen so much battle footage, both real and Hollywood style, that's not interesting. I really enjoy the ones that tell us about the people and what they went through, like SL, BoB, and Das Boot.
Looking forward to Pacific. I just hope it's done with the same quality as Brothers. My father served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. All of his WWII time was in the Pacific so I'm really looking forward to this one.
Terragon
01-17-10, 06:32 PM
I think there is a general consensus that the first thirty minutes of SPR was the only part of the movie that really matters.
I thought Apocalypse Now was WAY too overblown. Even more overblown than FMJ, if such a thing is possible.
As for We Were Soldiers, the only guy I liked was the Sergeant-Major. My Chief was almost exactly like that. Just a tough mother that did not take anything from anybody. He was a good drinker too. One night, I remember him getting so tossed, he jumped up on the table and solved all the military's problems including solutions such as killing the politicians, bitch slapping the commissioned officers, and for some reason, lawyers in general should have their arms cut off, and the entire Middle East, including Israel, should be bombed with B-52's and we should take all the oil for ourselves.
And when he was finished, we gave him a standing ovation.
Ah, good times in the Air Force.
Yes, I claim that the commander did not step off and on the helicopter in slow motion to pompous music. I also find it hard to believe they timed that flyby in real life.:salute:
Yeah the battle and the training period that led up to it took a heckuva lot longer that just 138 minutes too. At some point every film maker is forced to summarize events in order to tell the story. That doesn't make it propaganda though or you might as well add Das Boot and every other movie to that list too.
Of course it's ok to have a US flag at the beginning of SPR. And it was equally ok for the Germans to make movies about Jewish people before and during WW 2. They made perfect sense also.
You really are a piece of work. :nope:
Yeah the battle and the training period that led up to it took a heckuva lot longer that just 138 minutes too. At some point every film maker is forced to summarize events in order to tell the story. That doesn't make it propaganda though or you might as well add Das Boot and every other movie to that list too.
Its not about summarizing, to be anal its about making something last longer than it actually did. But most of all its about going over the top and making scenes that make people look away. I never said WWS is propaganda, I said its bad, its almost a caricature of war. It fails in some of the same areas as The Patriot. (Although it does not suck as wildly as that movie does)
My likes:
Das Boot
Stalingrad
Band of Brothers (really looking forward to the next one)
All the shooting in Saving Private Ryan
The Thin Red Line
Black Hawk Down (it has its moments)
Master and Commander :)
I think its time for a huge and expensive war drama from WW2 Africa. Imagine what they could do with the budget of those Transformers movies.
Hmmm...I'm looking forward to the Pacific version of BoB. I thought it had already aired in Australia? That would mean it would be available on the interwebs via...alternative means.
Not yet it airs this year though. I understand it was to have been aired here in 2009 but something in the deal between Seven Network here in Austraila with HBO in the US means that HBO gets it first in March 2010.
I'm looking forward to it as well. Quite big chunks of the production were filmed in Australia and it as part funded by Seven Network.
Torvald Von Mansee
01-17-10, 11:23 PM
Not yet it airs this year though. I understand it was to have been aired here in 2009 but something in the deal between Seven Network here in Austraila with HBO in the US means that HBO gets it first in March 2010.
I'm looking forward to it as well. Quite big chunks of the production were filmed in Australia and it as part funded by Seven Network.
I guess it makes sense that a lot of the production would be in Australia. The Philippines would also make sense. Wasn't principal photography done YEARS ago?
EDIT: I suppose I could google, but that runs the risk of spoilage. Well, I know what happens to one of the primary "characters."
Platapus
01-18-10, 05:52 PM
Anyone see the movie "the Beast" (the one about the soviet tank)?
And if you did, what did you think of it?
I thought it was an interesting insight into the Soviet AF campaign.
Anyone see the movie "the Beast" (the one about the soviet tank)?
And if you did, what did you think of it?
I thought it was an interesting insight into the Soviet AF campaign.
That was a pretty good movie and the only one besides Rambo III (yech) which deals with that conflict that I know of.
Platapus
01-18-10, 07:31 PM
That was a pretty good movie and the only one besides Rambo III (yech) which deals with that conflict that I know of.
Yeah "Pretty good" is a good rating for this movie.
Although that "squishing the guy with the tank tread" was a creepy scene.
Yeah "Pretty good" is a good rating for this movie.
Although that "squishing the guy with the tank tread" was a creepy scene.
My ankles hurt just thinking about it.
Platapus
01-18-10, 07:37 PM
My ankles hurt just thinking about it.
Is that what they mean by Flat Feet disqualifying one for service? :o
Is that what they mean by Flat Feet disqualifying one for service? :o
He's got nothing to be tankful about, that's for sure...
Platapus
01-18-10, 07:57 PM
He's got nothing to be tankful about, that's for sure...
I am sure that we can all come up with a really bad pun involving the term "don't tread on me".
But let's not and say we did. :har:
XabbaRus
01-24-10, 05:49 AM
...and has a typical German ending.:haha: (good film though)
@xabbarus; which Russian warfilms do you like?
Just noticed this one.
9th Company is Good. First Russian film that deals with Afghanistan, and in a way that portrays it as a waste of a bunch of young mens' lives.
Zorya Zdes' Tikhaya - OK could be classed as propoganda but it is well filmed, acted and tragic.
72 metres - Not exactly a war film but good anyway.
Admiral - About Kolchak though the TV mini series that the film is created out of is better.
I'll have to look at what else is in my collection.
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