Is it just me or is this mucher harder than SH3?

[scottrz]

Hey everyone. I first wanted to say I really like these boards and have gotten a lot of great info here over the years.

I used to play a lot of SH3 and finally was able to pickup SH4. I'm having a REALLY hard time attacking convoys. In about 10 intercept attempts, I've been detected by Japanese destroyers every single time and either driven off or destroyed. I never seemed to have this problem in SH3.

I think I'm doing everything right. I arrive at the intercept point early. I submerge, engage silent running and either order dead stop or go 1/3 speed. However, the lead destroyers ALWAYS detect me with their active sonar before I get close to the merch ships.

Am I doing something wrong? I'm in the Porpoise class. Does that make a difference? I'm getting pretty frustrated and and too proud to turn down the realism settings.

Thanks!

[Captain Edge]

Hi Scott,

I'm new to SH4 myself, having played a lot of SH3.

How about some more info? Which year? What depth are you at? Do you leave your periscope up the whole time? Are you attacking during daytime or nighttime?

I've attacked more than a few convoys in the past few days (as a newbie to SH4) and have had much success. I love surfacing and gunning the ships down after I've wounded 'em. I hate wasting torps to finish off a ship when a few HE shells can do the trick. :yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

I'm with Captain Edge: we need to know when and where you're conducting your attacks, and what mods you're using. If it's the stock game it shouldn't be too hard, but remember that the visual range is now 20 kilometres, vs 8 km in stock SH3. You need to attack from in front of the convoy and be submerged when they start getting close.

[A. Smith]

Here (http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm) is Ducimus' tutorial on how the AI works in SHIII and SHIV.

Here, I think, is your problem:


There are several types of sonar, and they all differ in geometric statistcs. Each one becoming a bit more effective then the previous version. From all ive been able to tell, the AI will not ping you unless:

A.) You are in his active sonar cone.
b.) You are presenting him a favorable aspect
c.) You are doing both A, and B for X number of seconds.

Essentially, by putting yourself straight in the path of the convoy, you have all three conditions pput together.

What I find most effective is to put yourself maybe 6 or 7 kilometers (rougly that many thousand yards) and wait underwater with engines shut off; track them on sonar, and when they get close (say, 5 km) to the intercept point, start heading there a couple of knots faster then them. You should be able to get within a good firing range before the escorts spot you; when they do (that is, when they turn to head towards you) fire as quickly as possible and go deep. You should be able to escape.

When I say "good firing range", by the way, I mean maybe 2 or 3 kilometers. They won't see it coming any less if you fire from closer range, and they might even start zig-zagging - sometimes evading the torpedoes. Heck, sometimes the escorts won't even spot you from that close, so don't be afraid to fire then so you don't even have to be truly afraid of them.

EDIT: this is from my own limited experience running only RSRDC and OM (so no mods on enemy AI).

[Sailor Steve]

The only objection I would have to that tactic is the "waiting with the engines shut off" part. The real guys couldn't do that.

[HMCS]

I find both III and IV have their strong points.

IV is a much easier game to play inasmuch as you don't have to monkey about with crew as you do in SHIII - flipping them from compartment to compartment. The watches rotate as they do on a real naval vessel.

The Japanese, as opponents, are nowhere near as tough as the RN, RCN and the USN. The determination, skill, technology and tactics of the allies in the N. Atlantic is in a class of its own. The Japanese had some excellent ships and crews (i.e. the Kaibokan) that can give you a run for your money, but there is nothing like a Hunter-Killer group prowling the Bay of Biscay to cut your career short.

The battlefield in IV is huge, much bigger than in the Atlantic. That means a lot of time in transit from base to patrol area. That being said, there are some huge naval battles that you can participate in (using RSRDC, of course) that you won't see in SH III.

As far as challenges go, I can honestly say that trying to take an S-Boat against the IJN in 1941 is as tough as surviving a career in SH3 in '44.

Visually, SH4 is a treat, much improved over sh3. And, like sh3, there are some wonderful mods to use.

[A. Smith]

The only objection I would have to that tactic is the "waiting with the engines shut off" part. The real guys couldn't do that.
True, true. The alternative is just to put the rudder at 40 in one direction or the other and keep going in circles at 2 or 3 knots... Unless I'm mistaken, that could have worked in real life.

[scottrz]

Thanks for the info guys. Looking especially at the reply regarding the AI, I realized that the destroyers were detecting me because I was almost directly in front of the convoy. Also, I always already had my boat turned perpendicular to the convoy heading which made me a big sonar target.

I played one of my convoy intercepts again and approached from a more oblique angle. It worked much better. Now I just have to worry about evading destruction after I sink their ships...

THANKS!

[looney]

Normally I will plot a perpendicular course to get the best gyro shot. and when shooting I go flank speed under the convoy, and down deep. If the DD is away I usually can get under the convoy unnoticed when the DD"s get to my firing spot ... and thus at least 1k meters away (I play Op monsoon). Or I fire from long ranges ... cause from mid 1942 on the DD and DE's get much harder.

[Webster]

The only objection I would have to that tactic is the "waiting with the engines shut off" part. The real guys couldn't do that.

agreed, you should be at silent running going 1 or 2 kts to maintain depth and manuvering control just as was required in real life.

[Bubblehead1980]

Agreed, wish they had made it where you couldnt just sit and wait for too long, real subs could hover in place for short periods of time but needed speed to maintain depth control, wish it was simulated in the game so couldnt do that.