CSpan begs administration for transparency

[SteamWake]

Here is an open letter from Cspan requesting access to the health care negotiations which the Democrats intend to do behind closed doors.

http://www.c-span.org/pdf/C-SPAN%20Health%20Care%20Letter.pdf

[Dowly]

Yes?

What is your take on this?

[Onkel Neal]

Heard a lot of promises before the election about this....

[SteamWake]

Yes?

What is your take on this?

My take?

I find it frustrating that the Dem's are pushing through legislation contrary to the majority of the publics wishes and have to meet 'privatly' to do so.

I find it frustrating that a media outlet has to publicly beg the administration to live up to a promise.

[AVGWarhawk]

It is frustrating. Not only that, the problem is getting worse. Closed door meetings is not transparency. It shear demonstration of not caring what the public wants nor do those on Capitol Hill care what the public wants. IMO the Dems will be handed their walking papers on the next go around of elections. Good riddance.

[AVGWarhawk]

I guess Obummer will shut down C-Span now. So is Fox really off the mark?

[SteamWake]

Heard a lot of promises before the election about this....

To be more specific.


"That's what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are," Obama said at a debate against Hillary Clinton in Los Angeles on Jan. 31, 2008.

[AVGWarhawk]

That statement was pulled out by C-Span and we will see if Obummer boycotts C-Span and bunches this outfit with Fox. A known Obummer basher.

[GoldenRivet]

My take?

I find it frustrating that the Dem's are pushing through legislation contrary to the majority of the publics wishes and have to meet 'privatly' to do so.

I find it frustrating that a media outlet has to publicly beg the administration to live up to a promise.

EXACTLY :yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah:

this guy understands.

I dont care if it is some kind of feed the children legislation

if..

a. the public majority thinks it is either a bad idea or that the fed is moving to fast with it

and

b. the government feels the need to conduct public business in PRIVATE

we have a problem there :stare:

personally i feel that congressional "closed door sessions" of any kind should be outlawed.

[AVGWarhawk]

personally i feel that congressional "closed door sessions" of any kind should be outlawed.

Absolutely! I pay their dead arse's paychecks I want to see'em working! :nope: Why do we pay them via our taxes yet are treated like a dog? There needs to be more accountability and transparency.

[CaptainHaplo]

Whats wrong AVG - is simple "hope" and "change" not enough for you?

[mookiemookie]

See and this is how you get both sides p*ssed off. The Left says "But you proooomised! We want a public option!" and then the Right says (insert any of the above posts). The fact of the matter is that "ping pong" is played by both parties. So next time the GOP is pulling this exact same ping pong stunt on whatever "bomb brown people" or "tax cuts for millionaires" bill they're trying to pass, I'm going to expect the same level of outrage out of you all, ok?

CSPAN covers stuff done on the floor of the House and Senate. It doesn't cover this stuff. It never has. The GOP is whining because they don't have a stage for their obstructionism.

One can understand why the Dems are doing this... because there's nothing but obstructionism and fillibustering being offered from the Right. They're not giving them the chance.

I say get a first round of health care reform done, even though its not something the radical right wants, or it doesn't go far enough for the left.

"Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." - Otto von Bismarck

[CaptainHaplo]

The fact of the matter is that "ping pong" is played by both parties. So next time the GOP is pulling this exact same ping pong stunt on whatever "bomb brown people" or "tax cuts for millionaires" bill they're trying to pass, I'm going to expect the same level of outrage out of you all, ok?

Mookie - that is entirely fair - and regardless of who the "party" is, if I don't express being pissed off about backroom deals, point it out to me and I will correct it for myself. However, its important to note that while many sides may do this - its being done by a group who once again is violating the will of the people - and the promises they made to the people to get elected.

[August]

Closed door sessions when they're dealing with classified information is one thing Mookie, but the Democrats made a big campaign promise to provide transparency on this particular subject, a promise that I think is fair to say contributed significantly to their winning the election.

Now they are reneging on that deal and mark my words, they will pay a political price for it. Remember Bush Sr's "No new taxes"?

[GoldenRivet]

One can understand why the Dems are doing this...

Because they dont want the average middle class American Joe to see just how SHAFTED he really will be when this gigantic turd passes through the colon of Congress and plops down with a firm yet squishy splat onto the face of the nation.

[Aramike]

CSPAN covers stuff done on the floor of the House and Senate. It doesn't cover this stuff. It never has. The GOP is whining because they don't have a stage for their obstructionism.See, here's the thing: Pelosi promised us the most transparent congress in HISTORY. Meaning, transparency such as Pelosi promised us hasn't been done before, else it could not be the most in history.

Ergo, such transparency would be something new, such as CSPAN covering the bill negotiations.

Frankly, I think that Pelosi and Obama have been caught flat-out lying about such transparencies, and it will likely cost Obama the presidency in 2012.

The ironic thing about healthcare reform is this: should a liberal bill pass (especially an unpopular one) through an opaque congress which had promised transparency, that's bye-bye Obama. However, should it be defeated, good for the country except that Obama likely gets 4 more years.

Want a precedent? Check out Clinton.

[geetrue]

It's like a man afraid to let his wife go to work without him, because she might cheat on him ... They own the House and the Senate so where is the problem?

Obama is the leader of the Democratic party and is using his karma (don't hit me) he is using his karma right or for wrong to persaude his party to swing their votes to his idelogy.

It's too late for me to look it up, but the last vote on health care was finally persuaded by a lone hold out in the mid west that had concerns about aboration. His vote was purchased with the promise his state, out of all of the other states would not hae to pay any increase in medi-care.

Votes can be purchased ...

At some point in time the truth will be the truth and not just polictics.

[Snestorm]

personally i feel that congressional "closed door sessions" of any kind should be outlawed.

No. You don't FEEL anything. You THINK it!!!
And you are 100% right!

[AVGWarhawk]

Whats wrong AVG - is simple "hope" and "change" not enough for you?


Never was CptHaplo....never was.....it was all a very cleverly played out farce that was staged an entire year before the nominations were made.

[AVGWarhawk]

See and this is how you get both sides p*ssed off. The Left says "But you proooomised! We want a public option!" and then the Right says (insert any of the above posts). The fact of the matter is that "ping pong" is played by both parties. So next time the GOP is pulling this exact same ping pong stunt on whatever "bomb brown people" or "tax cuts for millionaires" bill they're trying to pass, I'm going to expect the same level of outrage out of you all, ok?

CSPAN covers stuff done on the floor of the House and Senate. It doesn't cover this stuff. It never has. The GOP is whining because they don't have a stage for their obstructionism.

One can understand why the Dems are doing this... because there's nothing but obstructionism and fillibustering being offered from the Right. They're not giving them the chance.

I say get a first round of health care reform done, even though its not something the radical right wants, or it doesn't go far enough for the left.

"Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." - Otto von Bismarck

Ping pong, get out anyone who might oppose the bill yadda yadda....the fact remains....there is no transparency. In short, Obama is full of it. Diplomate? Certainly not. Champion of hope and change. No sir. Becoming status quo in Washingtion? Absolutely. Laws are definitely not like sausages. These affect your everday life and your wallet. Do not walk with the sheep!

[Platapus]

Is it President Obama who is blocking this or is this a decision by the leaders in Congress?

President Obama may promise and truly intend to have open sessions, but if the leadership of congress decides not to, there won't.

Let's be sure we are blaming the right people.

[CaptainHaplo]

"Senior Democratic sources say Democrats are prepared to short-circuit the traditional legislative process of a formal conference committee comprising House and Senate members to exclude their Republican counterparts during final congressional health care deliberations.

Obama gave his blessing Tuesday for that move, according to two congressional Democratic leadership sources."

Bet you want a source - and I bet you think its Fox News right? Well - its CNN....

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/06/obama.dems.health.care/index.html

" President Barack Obama met Wednesday with House Democratic leaders who face the likelihood of having a final health care bill look much more like the Senate's version than their measure.

The meeting with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the chairmen of the three House committees that approved health care legislation was part of efforts by Obama and top Democrats to merge the separate House and Senate bills into a final version capable of winning approval in both chambers."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/06/obama-meets-with-house-democrats-on-health-care/?eref=marqueeflipper

That article also talks about making the entire process private.
It may not be his idea - but he sure could stand up on his podium and say "This is for the good of the American people, and it should happen in full view of them."

But notice - he isn't. Instead - he is applying pressure to make sure a bill is on his desk ASAP regardless of how - so he can sign it before the State of the Union Address.

[AVGWarhawk]

Is it President Obama who is blocking this or is this a decision by the leaders in Congress?

President Obama may promise and truly intend to have open sessions, but if the leadership of congress decides not to, there won't.

Let's be sure we are blaming the right people.

Come on man, he campaigned open government. Is he running the place or is the place running him? This hiding behind closed doors is exactly what they complained about during the Bush administration. This is why Obummer campaigned for transparency.

[mookiemookie]

I agree with you all that this is hypocrisy from Obama on this one. Pelosi's response when reminded of the fact that Obama said in his campaign that this would be an open debate?

"He promised lots of things in the campaign."

Someone get her out of there, please? :doh:

[August]

I agree with you all that this is hypocrisy from Obama on this one. Pelosi's response when reminded of the fact that Obama said in his campaign that this would be an open debate?

"He promised lots of things in the campaign."

Someone get her out of there, please? :doh:

I think Obama could vastly increase his chances of reelection if he stood up to Pelosi on this issue. The last thing he wants is to be tied too tightly to the Congressional Democrats.

[Stealth Hunter]

Heard a lot of promises before the election about this....

Lol, since when does anyone actually believe in campaign promises?


:har:

[August]

Lol, since when does anyone actually believe in campaign promises?


:har:


I'll bet George "Read my lips, no new taxes" Bush Sr believes in them.

[Aramike]

I agree with you all that this is hypocrisy from Obama on this one. Pelosi's response when reminded of the fact that Obama said in his campaign that this would be an open debate?

"He promised lots of things in the campaign."

Someone get her out of there, please? :doh:Heh, if the Dems want any chance of retaining any majority long term they will. She is well on her path toward becoming a political pariah. It won't be long before you start seeing special interest ads showing Pelosi promising things such as the most ethical and transparant congress in history, followed by examples of what REALLY happened. Then brace for campaign ads attempting to benefit from either voting AGAINST Pelosi or claiming the frequency of an opponent voting WITH her.

Furthermore, should Obama begin feeling the heat from the electorate, don't be surprised should he call her out.

Democrats are facing a very difficult opponent right now: reality.

[Aramike]

Lol, since when does anyone actually believe in campaign promises?


:har:The naive electorate clearly believes in them - else those in office would never be elected.

[Snestorm]

The naive electorate clearly believes in them - else those in office would never be elected.

How often do US voters go to the polls to elect a responsible candidate, as opposed to choosing the lesser of two evils which are presented to them?

[AVGWarhawk]

I think Obama could vastly increase his chances of reelection if he stood up to Pelosi on this issue. The last thing he wants is to be tied too tightly to the Congressional Democrats.

I would have to agree here August. Obama has not stood up to Congress at all on anything. The man needs to start leading.....

[August]

It won't be long before you start seeing special interest ads showing Pelosi promising things such as the most ethical and transparant congress in history, followed by examples of what REALLY happened. Then brace for campaign ads attempting to benefit from either voting AGAINST Pelosi or claiming the frequency of an opponent voting WITH her.

I don't think any of that will matter to the California's 8th Congressional district unfortunately. She won't be SotH after the Repubs retake Congress but she'll likely keep her seat.

[SteamWake]

I don't think any of that will matter to the California's 8th Congressional district unfortunately. She won't be SotH after the Repubs retake Congress but she'll likely keep her seat.

I'd be really shocked if Pelosi retained her seat.

Hell I half expect her to 'retire' as well.

Oh almost forgot. Heard on the wire today that Obama has given in to Cspan's request and granted them an entire hour of coverage.

I can see it now... "Okay everybody were about to go on the air so be at your most boring" :D

[Aramike]

I don't think any of that will matter to the California's 8th Congressional district unfortunately. She won't be SotH after the Repubs retake Congress but she'll likely keep her seat.That's what I meant. Being against her will become a favored issue for other congressmen. I agree, she will most likely continue to retain her seat, but the nation as a whole thinks squat of her, and it will affect other races.

[August]

I'd be really shocked if Pelosi retained her seat.

Dude, you do know what area the 8th district covers right? It's the most reliably democrat voting district in the entire country.

[SteamWake]

I think Obama could vastly increase his chances of reelection if he stood up to Pelosi on this issue. The last thing he wants is to be tied too tightly to the Congressional Democrats.

He cant afford to he is one of those dammed if you do and dammed if you dont positions. He will treat it the same way he treats most things put it off for several days and hope it goes away or at least is forgotten about.

They know that allowing the public to see first hand the proceedings things would be even worse for him and more difficult to pass their agenda... oh sorrry the 'health care bill.

He surely cant say "Well I never said that" or "This is what I meant".

Furthermore the way Pelosi giggles and waves it off like "oh thats just campaign lies everyone does it" :stare: Its enough to turn your stomach.

Yea sure everybody fabricates crap in campaign promises chicken in every pot and such but its not usually about a piece of legislation that will change the very fabric of a nation.

[Platapus]

I have no problem with Ms. Pelosi remaining in the House. Her district can vote for whomever they want... not my concern.

However the position of Speaker of the House is a "federal" position. I simply don't understand how she could have been re-elected as SoH. She is not doing her party any favours and only giving the GOP plenty to shoot at.

If the Democrats want to improve their image, they need to get a new SoH.

[Platapus]

I think Obama could vastly increase his chances of reelection if he stood up to Pelosi on this issue. The last thing he wants is to be tied too tightly to the Congressional Democrats.

I don't know how much he can stand up to her on. Congress does not work for the President. The President has no authority to tell Congress to do anything. Due to the balances of power, the President ASKS congress. Every congress ensures that the President knows this.

If the President were to make a big deal about this and congress says "no" then he would lose a lot with the American people image wise.

When you don't have authority over someone, it is not a good idea to "stand up to them". You might not like the outcome.

[CaptainHaplo]

On the contrary - Ronald Reagan stood up to congress and got his way.

They kept sending him bills with all kinds of ryders and fundings attached. He finally got sick of it, addressed the nation and told the public and congress that the next bill they sent him that had all that crap in it he would veto - no matter what it was. He would have too - but congress didnt have the gumption to test him.

[Platapus]

On the contrary - Ronald Reagan stood up to congress and got his way.

They kept sending him bills with all kinds of ryders and fundings attached. He finally got sick of it, addressed the nation and told the public and congress that the next bill they sent him that had all that crap in it he would veto - no matter what it was. He would have too - but congress didnt have the gumption to test him.

Since veto is one of the powers granted to the President, he was only doing what he was empowered to.

Vetoing a bill is not the same as TELLING congress how they can run their meetings. The Constitution grants that power to each of the houses of congress.

[SteamWake]

Dude, you do know what area the 8th district covers right? It's the most reliably democrat voting district in the entire country.

Yes sir I do.

I still maintain that Ms. Pelosi will not retain her seat.

Quote me and we will see.

[Aramike]

Yes sir I do.

I still maintain that Ms. Pelosi will not retain her seat.

Quote me and we will see.I'm curious: why?

She still enjoys fairly high approval ratings in her district.

[August]

Yes sir I do.

I still maintain that Ms. Pelosi will not retain her seat.

Quote me and we will see.

I'm curious: why?

She still enjoys fairly high approval ratings in her district.

I hope Steam is right...

[SteamWake]

I'm curious: why?

She still enjoys fairly high approval ratings in her district.

Doese she now? I heard it was somewhere around 20% approval.

Oh wait Im wrong.... its worse.

http://congressratings.com/411/pelosi-nancy-d-ca-8th-rep/

[August]

Oh wait Im wrong.... its worse.

A national poll doesn't mean much. Poll her constituency in San Fran. The only ones that can vote for or against her. I'll bet you see some big differences in the percentages.

[Aramike]

Doese she now? I heard it was somewhere around 20% approval.

Oh wait Im wrong.... its worse.

http://congressratings.com/411/pelosi-nancy-d-ca-8th-rep/FIrst off, the poll you cited isn't a scientific poll by any sense. Secondly, it's open to the national public at large, who don't actually vote for her.

Last I saw (and I don't right now have the time to search for it), she well over 60% in her district, and that's all that matters when it comes to being reelected.