New to manual targeting..

[cbrown]

Okay, I've read about it, looked at some tutorials and now I think I have the basic understanding and would like to try manual aiming, except for one question...

I'm really must apologize, but it's a really stupid question..

I put in the estimated speed, the Aob, and range. When I am looking through the periscope, when do I fire? At 0 deg or the lead angle?

I am under the impression that I don't need to use lead angle if I am using the TDC. Is this correct? And the lead angle calculator only works at 90 deg.

Thanks

[magic452]

No apology necessary we all have asked similar questions in the past. :yep:

There are many methods for getting a firing solution and seems like your getting them mixed up.

For a TDC/PK attack you input Speed, AoB and range/bearing into the TDC and send all to the position Keeper (PK) that is the set of dials on the left
On the bottom right of that panel is a button to turn on the PK. This will update the firing solution as the target moves so you can fire any time you have a good solution. With map contacts ON and if you have entered good data, looking at the attack map there will be a white X that will be right on or very close to the target and it will follow the target as it moves. If the X is off adjust your data till it's correct. As long as the X is on the target you can fire and should get a hit. You will want to be at a good AoB, something between 45° and 90°. I use 65 to 90°
OPEN THE TORPEDO DOORS FIRST, Q key.

Shooting using a lead angle is a different firing solution, constant bearing solutions. Dick O'Kane (90°), Cromwell (45°) vector analysis, any AoB.
You do not turn on the PK for any of them and with vector analysis you don't input any thing into the TDC unless you have used it for some other attack. These are zero gyro angle attacks so the torpedo shoots straight out the front and the lead angle is just that, you shoot when the target gets to that bearing angle.

The only stupid question is the one you don't ask, so feel free to ask away.:yeah:

With manual targeting it takes some practice but soon the light goes on and it gets very easy. Stick with it.

Magic

[VirtualVikingX]

Thanks from me also, Magic! This is the question I always wondered, but were afraid to ask. Still planning to get on with manual targeting.

[cbrown]

Thanks for the help! One more question...Which method was the most realistic way, using the TDC or lead angle approach?

[magic452]

The constant bearing methods (lead angle) described here were developed by various members of the forum and I don't know if any were used in the war.
Some of the history buffs here could answer that better than I.

For my money I would say that the TDC/PK is the most realistic.
Constant bearing is by far the most accurate.

Magic

[Bubblehead1980]

TDC/PK is the historically accurate way to fire torpedos and to me, the easiest.Some have trouble with it and use other methods.The historical way works for me so I use it.

[Armistead]

Learn them all over time, you'll find yourself in situations where you'll prefer one over the other. All the real skippers used some different methods or a combination of them.

O'Kane is my favorite by far. I mostly shoot by sonar, so it works great, plus good way to shoot in storms when you can't see.

[sergei]

Learn them all over time, you'll find yourself in situations where you'll prefer one over the other.

Seconded. Have as many tricks in your bag as possible.

[gutted]

Have as many tricks in your bag as possible.

this

[Rockin Robbins]

Reminds me of a stickied thread buried around here somewhere...:D

[cbrown]

Okay I have been trying to sink the cruiser in sub school #3 using 90 degree approach and I keep missing ahead.


I use 12 kts as target speed, send it to the TDC, max out the range, select 10 degree lead angle, set the Aob to 080 (090 minus 10 deg lead angle). I open all doors and set speed to high.

My course is 000 and as the target crosses 350, I shoot EVERYTHING as the target passes from its bow to its stern. As I check the attack map, all of the torpedoes miss ahead.

What did I do wrong? Should I have shot as the target crossed 000 on the periscope instead of 350 or leave the Aob at 090?

Any suggestions? I was using O'Kane attack crib notes as reference.

Thanks

[Andrew82]

Have you put the periscope to 350 and then pushed the "send to TDC" button?

( I'm just a noob but I'm practicing the same thing ;) )

[cbrown]

Yes, I set the periscope to 350 and sent the info to the tdc.

[Munchausen]

:hmmm: You didn't mention it but I assume the target is heading 090. Right?

[cbrown]

Yes, the target is heading 090, in the begining anyways.... I did not check its course again, since I was rushing through the calculations before it had past. MAybe I need to re-check its course....

[Armistead]

I take it you guys are practicing the tutorials by Rockin Robbins, the O'Kane 90 attack, ect..

You'll have it down soon enough if you watch his video's. He even has cards you can print out explaining each method until you get it down.

Sticky is at the top..."Skipper bad of tricks..ect...

[Andrew82]

I take it you guys are practicing the tutorials by Rockin Robbins, the O'Kane 90 attack, ect..

You'll have it down soon enough if you watch his video's. He even has cards you can print out explaining each method until you get it down.

Sticky is at the top..."Skipper bad of tricks..ect...

Jep, that's the one! Very nice tutorial! Got the cards printed out as well.:yeah:

Yesterday almost got it right but stupid merchant suddenly felt the need to change it's course... :damn:

[JackAubrey]

Okay I have been trying to sink the cruiser in sub school #3 using 90 degree approach and I keep missing ahead.


I use 12 kts as target speed, send it to the TDC, max out the range, select 10 degree lead angle, set the Aob to 080 (090 minus 10 deg lead angle). I open all doors and set speed to high.
That is, because the cruiser runs at about 9 Knots, if i recall correctly. The O'Kane Method cancels out range, not speed. So getting the correct speed of the target is important.

Try to hit the Mogami with AOB set to 80, lead Angle 10 deg (Periscope at 350 deg.), and torps to "fast."

Open the outer doors well before firing and fire when the part that you want to hit crosses the hairline at 350 deg. in your Periscope.

The O'Kane Method is, at least for me, by far the easiest and the most successful.

Keep trying. It takes a bit of time. Took some for all of us to figure things out. But its quite rewarding when in the end, you sink ships the manual way. :03:

[jldjs]

MAGIC452's reply included the following;
"With map contacts ON and if you have entered good data, looking at the attack map there will be a white X that will be right on or very close to the target and it will follow the target as it moves. If the X is off adjust your data till it's correct. As long as the X is on the target you can fire and should get a hit."

How do know how to adjust your data for the firing solution by the relationship of the "x" to the target? If "x" is behind does that mean the speed setting is off? Which way, too fast or too slow? Is the AoB off? Which way, too sharp or to shallow?

[razark]

How do know how to adjust your data for the firing solution by the relationship of the "x" to the target? If "x" is behind does that mean the speed setting is off? Which way, too fast or too slow? Is the AoB off? Which way, too sharp or to shallow?

If the X is closer to your sub than the target, the range is short. If it's farther than the target, the range is long. The target and the X both have a line indicating the heading. If you get the AOB correct, they'll be pointing the same way (if you're really good, the X and heading will be right over the target). For speed, observe the X and the target. Remember where they are, relative to each other. Take another look after a few seconds. If the X is moving ahead, your speed estimate is too fast. If the X is falling behind the target, speed is to low.

If the X is nowhere near the target, moving in the wrong direction, you're using my method. It doesn't work too well.

[I'm goin' down]

Since I have not been able to play because my gaming computer died [permanently], I have been scouring the forums. Here are my two cents on manual targeting.

Hitman's tutorial on Manual Targeting at 100 percent Realism is a great way to be introduced to manual targeting. It teaches the concept of aspect ratio which is REALLY important. It forces you to do the math, so the concept sinks in.

Also, gutted's [what a handle!] Solution Solver program, along with his tutorials, will aid in understanding as to how aspect ratio and Aob change as your boat and the target change position. Finally, the easy Aob mod is indispensible, as it enables accuracy at long range. All of these will make understanding lead angles, etc. and the O'Kane Method much easier in the log run. (I wouldn't listen to anything Rockin Robbins says... he taught me everything I know and introduced me to manual targeting.)

Learn to read the dials on the PK and the Attack Dials. Use them to verify your set up and use the Attack Screen to ensure your torpedo angle will get you close. Remember, early war torpedoes often run deep and that ducimus' destoryers in TMO are programmed to keep you very, very honest (Is it an accident that my motherboard died at the exact moment my boat was sunk by a TMO destroyer depth charge? I don't think so?)

[mobucks]

the tutorial "simplified manual targeting 100% realism" on this site somewhere i been using has been working 100% of the time so far, even when i feel such a noob since i only start playing a week ago i always fire and am quite sure it will miss, i hear "torpedo impact"

yay.

the guide requires hitting pause to set up AOB/do some math, but i live with it if i keep getting hits like this, even with TMOs duds i still have a very high success rate.

[I'm goin' down]

Mobucks--you are on the same path that I followed re manual targeting. Once you learn how to plot the target's true course (it is easy), I recommend downloading the Easy Aob mod. The mod will enable you to pull off attacks at various angles without doing the math required in Hitman's tutorial. It was runner up to mod of the year, and is state of the art subsim technology.

And if you want to blow your mind, download gutted's Solution Solver program and watch his tutorials. It took me a while to figure out, but it was worth it.

[Freebird]

The tutorials of RRobbins OKane follies and Werners TDC tutorial finally lit my light bulb. It boils it down to a level of simplicity even my feeble brain can grasp.

If you watch Werner walk you thru a setup with just a fictional target, you can see how the upper dial shows target heading. Lower dial, your heading.

And calculating AOB becomes a no brainer. Obviously, if the target is at 90' relative, the AOB is 90' too. It's very proportional in that if the ship is at say 075' relative, then the AOB is 15' less than 90'

I always try to do a solution at 45' relative and a couple final ones around 15' relative. Be ready to shoot at 10' if the target is less than 15kts. Most ships are slow. Warships move out, though.

Always lock your scope when able and enter range and bearing last.

This works out to be the quickest and simplest way to set up OKane or Cromwells method. I have bagged some tonnage doing that and now am ready to learn to do a sonar/hydrophone only blind shot.

[capthelm]

utube vids on manual attacking?

[CH3NO2]

lol, none of them have worked for me so far. Two patrols and 48 torps and what sounded like one hit. Setting sail from Pearl to try again.

[magic452]

CH3NO2 Next time you contact a target save the game and reshoot the same situation over again and you will no doubt find what you may be doing wrong.

Use the external cam to see where your torpedoes go and that might shed some light on any problems with your firing solution. Some of your misses might be just torpedoes running to deep, if you have duds on.

Are you playing with map contacts on or off?

Magic