All I want to do is sink your pretty ships... [Archive]

frau kaleun

01-01-10, 10:38 PM

(and it's only 1941 in my first career, what to think about 43/44??) :hmmm:

Well, the phrase "ALAAAAAAAAAAARM" springs to mind...

Actually I may go back and run through the Torpedo School again, because to be honest I did the whole thing with the periscope up since there were no escorts to cramp my style and I didn't really get as comfortable with using the attack/nav maps to find my way in and out of position as I probably should have done. Mostly I used them and primarily the hydrophone to relocate and chase down any ships that didn't sink after one attack run and managed to get out of periscope range while I was putting a first shot or two into somebody else.

Using it to keep track of escorts that are actively trying to hunt and kill me plus stay in touch with the rest of a convoy is a whole other kettle of fish. And being able to set up decent firing positions without my periscope sticking up screaming "OH ROYAL NAAAAY-VEE, HERE I AM" might be a good thing, doncha think? Lol.

I can see why so many people get addicted to SH3 and have played it for so long. Especially for a seafaring n00b like me, the learning curve looks like the side of Mt Everest as seen from, say, the bottom of a 2 mile deep hole at the foot of the mountain.

And I do really appreciate the Academy part of the game. I'm finding it invaluable. I know me and if I had to start playing "for real" at my level of n00biness, I'd get frustrated very quickly at the fact that I had no clue what to do or how to do it most of the time in such complex, demanding gameplay situations. At the same time the complexity, I think, adds to the potential for longterm repeat enjoyment once the basics have been more or less mastered.

In conclusion: SH3 is the shizzle, yo.

Dissaray

01-02-10, 01:38 AM

This game dose have certan adictive qualities, especialy when you figure out how to aim torpidos so they hit just where you want them to. Or after your first brush with crush depth while Tommy distroyers are droping depth charges on you like they are candy but you still manage to keep from being crushed and manage to escape from the attack zone; that was nearly enuf to replace drinking for me, only nearly though :O:.

If you are looking for a way to get better at attacking convoys short of going into a campain and trying to run them down on the high seas I recomend the single missions. Even in the stock game there are some that are very useful for practise on sneeking up on convoys or millitary task forces, much more dificult if you ask me, and seting your boat in an attack position, fireing and exiting the danger zone. The Grey Wolves Expantion mod makes many aspects of the game more realistic, and difficult, but over all a lot more fun and comes with a bunch of convoy attack single missions.

There are also some other mods that can help you be more leathal at sea, the one that I like the best is the Mai GUI mod. It takes some time to figure out how to use it but once you get the hang of it there is no going back if you ask me.

psykopatsak

01-02-10, 08:29 AM

sometimes i wonder how i survive so well when having my scope up all the time in '44... :hmmm:

though my preferred method is to silently run into a convoy and then start shooting - so escorts are not really present until its escapey time!:smug:

frau kaleun

01-02-10, 11:55 AM

thanks for the advice.

i think i will probably do some single missions before going into career mode just to see what it's like out there "for real." i have GWX3 so i should have plenty to choose from.

my first few tries with the convoy attack training i did manage to dive and avoid some depth charges but the last time i got hit near the surface and again on the way down before i could get any real maneuvering done and by the time i tried to pull out of the dive it was too late and there was no shovelful of sand to help me out, lol.

i do have a question, when i go to silent running it automatically slows down to the minimum speed on the dial. but if i order more speed does that kill the silent running even if i don't order the chief to do so? it seems to do so for all practical purposes even if everybody's still whispering and whatnot.

i've been trying to watch the stealth meter but i'm not sure if the changes in it have to do with speed, depth, position, or some combination of all of them that i haven't figured out yet.

sergei

01-02-10, 12:13 PM

Silent running does more than just reduce your speed.
It turns off bilge pumps, trim pumps, any other non essential machinery. Your crew will also put their slippers on.

So - turn on silent running. You can then change speed.
You will still be in silent mode, and quieter than a boat doing the same speed in normal running mode.

Don't forget to turn it off again when you need to reload your tubes.
But if you are being hunted you really don't want to be reloading. It is very noisy.

Hope that helps :DL

frau kaleun

01-02-10, 12:32 PM

yeah, that's what i thought, because even when i'd increase speed all the other changes that came when ordering schleichfahrt stayed as is. then i'd notice the stealth meter going red again and wasn't sure what made the difference. could it change just because an escort just moved into a better position to detect me? or does increasing speed even running silent make that much of a difference?

i have to say though it is quite something to be down there and hear the escort passing overhead. it's starting to give me the willies and it's only a game! can't imagine how awful it must've been in real life.

sergei

01-02-10, 01:03 PM

I'm not exactly sure how the stealth meter works, but I don't think it going red necessarily means the escort has you on its sound equipment. Rather I think it is just an indication of how much noise you are making.

As a good rule of thumb, I like to keep the engine at or below 100 rpm when being hunted. This is just a loose rule and can change depending on circumstances.
eg. Early war you can get away with a bit more due to inexperienced escort crews.
Dead calm weather means the acoustic conditions are great for the escorts hunting you. Attacking in calm seas can be a nightmare.
As the sea condition gets choppier, the acoustic conditions deteriorate, the escorts cannot hear you as well. Rough weather is your friend.

I think your engine noise (ie. speed) is more important than the other noise you are making, but am not 100% sure to be honest.
Try experimenting. Use the knotmeter rather than the engine telegraph to change speed in 1/2 knot increments from 1/2 knots to 3 knots. See what rpm you are making at each setting, and what your stealthmeter does at each setting. This will help you get a good feel for how stealthy your boat is at different speeds.

Rereading this I am not sure I have answered your question :oops:
Just some thoughts from one Kauleun to another. This is how I approached the problem when I first started playing, and it gave me a good feel for my boat.

EDIT I have just read a few old posts about the stealth meter, and it seems that it indicates how detectable you are, not that you have been detected

Dissaray

01-02-10, 02:54 PM

Ya, your stelth meter can be light up bright red and you still may go undetected. What it is tell in you is how easy the top side crews will be able to identify you using the noise you are making. Loud or distinct noises, like loading torpido tubes or your electric engens runing faster are two dead give aways; also the faster you are going the more turbulance you are making with your propelers and they can hear that and you can hear them the same way on your hydrophone if you are doing maual checks.

Speed is a big factor but by no meanse the only one to be concerned with. Depth and position relitive to the hunter are also important. The enemy will have a harder time finding you at greater depths. As more water gets in the way it becomes harder to pick out u-boats from every thing else. In realitiy there was also dencity changes in the water that listening harder but that isn't modle in the game I fear. This is why when you ask for evasion advice you will always get back "go deep and go silent" beacouse a u-boat runing deep and silent is damn hard to hear and harder to track.

Relitive position is important too. The general idea here is if you can't get behind the distoryer trying to kill you point your bow directly at him. This minimizes your sound profile and makes you harder to find, depending on distance a u-boat bow on like that can take up as little as one degree mark on a hydraphone reducing the chances that their guy will just stumble apon you. Idealy you will want to point the bow at them beacouse the stern has the screws and ruders and those are easy to hear if you are moving, the bow is the quietest part of the boat so to speek. The best place to be is directly behind the enemy, you can make as much noise as you want back there and they will never find you beacouse the sound of thier own engens and screws drown you out.

That should help you in your endevors to sink their prity ships I think. Good luck, now go forth and kill some one.

frau kaleun

01-02-10, 03:32 PM

Danke for all the tips!

Use the knotmeter rather than the engine telegraph to change speed in 1/2 knot increments from 1/2 knots to 3 knots. See what rpm you are making at each setting, and what your stealthmeter does at each setting. This will help you get a good feel for how stealthy your boat is at different speeds.

*sigh* Yet another option that I am just now finding out about, lol. (Ja ja I know, RTFM!) I'm guessing I can switch back and forth between that and the other less specific speed dial in the same way I can switch between depth meter displays. I do think I would prefer to have more precise control over speed and certainly being able to know the rpms will be very helpful!

The best place to be is directly behind the enemy

Well I know but he won't stand still long enough for me to get there! *grumble grumble* :D

Diese schweinhunds simply will not cooperate with my nefarious plans for their immediate lack of a future.

Good luck, now go forth and kill some one

Jawohl herr Kaleun!

sergei

01-02-10, 06:29 PM

I'm guessing I can switch back and forth between that and the other less specific speed dial in the same way I can switch between depth meter displays.

Yep that's spot on.
I'm going to guess from the way you worded your post that you don't know where the rpm gauge is.
Here is a screenshot, apologies if I am telling you something you already know

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/974/rpm.jpg

frau kaleun

01-02-10, 06:39 PM

Lol, uh yeah I was actually looking for that. Found the knotmeter ok though!

Thanks!

So basically I would hang out in the command room, play with the knotmeter, and see what happens on the rpm gauge at different speeds. And try to keep the rpms under 100 for silent running. Got it.

frau kaleun

01-03-10, 09:58 PM

Finally got through Convoy Attack training last night - er, more like early this morning - without losing my skin, my crew, or my boat.

Took out the rear escort and the tanker before having to go deep and silent when the other escort circled back to see what all the fuss was about and proceeded to let me know I'd worn out my welcome in no uncertain terms.

Managed to avoid all but one depth charge run and then took some hits, ended up about 136 m down while waiting for damage repair and flooding control. Then played cat and mouse with the escort again until I got so tired it was either pack it in for the night or come up and try to take her out or hope for a miracle escape-wise.

After several narrow escapes and a couple crash dives, managed to come up to attack depth just as she was for some inexplicable reason turning right across what would in about two seconds be my wake and only a couple hundred meters behind me. Oh, stern torpedo tube, how I love you. And it was the only tube I still had a fish in! Fired my one available torp and then took off, intending to just get the heck out of there until I knew how much damage the hit would cause.

Don't know what I hit on her but it musta been the right spot, cuz she was done. Caught up with the remaining four merchants, now unescorted, with only four eels left. Did as much damage as I could do with those and then finished the job with the deck gun.

If only I'd clicked "Exam" when I started - but at least I got through it and I certainly learned a whole lot about running silent, rpm control, when it's safe to rev it up a little and when to dial it down again.

Feeling a lot better about the prospects of getting the job done in game now - still a lot to learn, but having survived being hunted once and living to tell the tale sure does feel good. :D

Sailor Steve

01-04-10, 12:35 AM

For convoy attack practice I'm very fond of the 'Happy Times' single mission. I've played that one more than any other.

One warning, though: GWX increases the spotting range of everybody, and the starting range is only 7000 meters. Even if you dive immediately you're sure to be spotted. The good news: there's only one escort...for the time being.

Jimbuna

01-04-10, 09:53 AM

Is that the one with the hunter killer group bringing up the rear and the K-Ship above it? :hmmm:

Sailor Steve

01-04-10, 10:39 AM

No, that's the one that takes place on April 8, 1940 (ten years to the day before I was born :sunny:), off the Rockall Banks. The convoy is heading toward the north of Ireland with only a single Hunt class destroyer. There is a mixed DD group ('C' class and 'Flowers') several miles ahead, on their way to take the group to safety. You have a limited time to sink what you can before escape becomes your only priority.

Dissaray

01-04-10, 10:52 AM

I can't recal the name of the mission but there is one that realy helps for geting into position; I think it may be called "Bucket Bergade." It is a mission that takes place in the Caribian and you are tasked with sinking some unescroted tankers, thoguh some of them are armed. They give you the general corse and speed of the convoy, which only comprizes of a hand full of ships. There is some air cover so you have to stay under and make use of the scope sparingly.

If you are having truble geting into posistion to attack effectivly and are having too much truble practising due to pesky escorts you might give this mission a go. Once you get teh hang of moving sealthaly into position and firing on targets you can move up to some escorted ships. That is what I have been doing for a while now, that and sinking a lot of single ships in campains.

frau kaleun

01-04-10, 01:26 PM

Thanks for the suggestions - I may give those a try right off and see how I do.

Jimbuna

01-04-10, 05:28 PM

sergei

01-04-10, 09:18 PM

I remember the sub school missions being being completely over the top for new kauleuns.

Starting right next to the convoy, in very shallow water etc...

Seems to me a proper training mission should start you quite far away from the convoy, give you the chance to track it, decide upon the convoy speed and course, decide on a track to intercept and attack it, then give you enough room to evade the escorts.

I am going to use the mission maker to make such a mission
I think I would be very useful for new Kauleuns.

EDIT: This may take me a few days !

Dissaray

01-04-10, 10:34 PM

That sounds like a very use full mission indeed. Though I expect that some one just starting out with the game would find it a tad overwhelming. I know it took me a solid month or so befor I was able to get into position and attack a single ship, let alone sneeking up on a whole convoy with escorts and make a sucsesful attack; or at least an attack that put torpidos near the target. I have been thinking about doing up a mission like that for my self, or finding one like it, to practise convoy attacks; the ones that come with GWX are good but the escorts are eather too advanced or to numerous for my level of skill just now.

The Naval Acadamy missions give new players just the ammount of dificulty that alows for some sucsess while still learning the basics of what you need to know to be sucsesful in the game.

frau kaleun

01-05-10, 07:01 PM

Well I finally passed the Convoy Attack exam with flying colors - which involved waiting until the rear escort turned back some distance and getting three quick shots off at the leading escort and two of the merchants. Missed the escort but slipped fast down the inside of one of the convoy lanes and managed to hit the returning rear escort before she even tried to shoot at me. Dove to 80 m and ran silent back up in between the fleeing merchants and evaded one depth charge run by the remaining escort. Came back to periscope depth after she seemed to have lost track of me and was able to take her out with one lucky shot. Much to my surprise the rear escort sank too while I was busy playing footsie with her comrades.

Still had some really stupid misses with my remaining eels and had to finish off the last couple of ships with the deck gun, but at least I didn't spend two solid hours running silent at 100 m down trying to outwit the Royal Navy, and then have to catch up again from 8 km away. :D

Brag

01-05-10, 07:45 PM

Congratz, Frau K!

When attacking convoys in your career, shoot two or three targets and dive deep. Don'y hang around to watch results. :salute:

frau kaleun

01-05-10, 10:55 PM

Congratz, Frau K!

When attacking convoys in your career, shoot two or three targets and dive deep. Don'y hang around to watch results. :salute:

Nah, that's what the Event Camera is for! How did the real Kaleuns ever do without it?

I have to admit - it is very tempting to stay at P depth and wait to see them blow up. Not a luxury most real Kaleuns could take advantage of in a convoy attack and live to talk about, methinks.

Dissaray

01-05-10, 11:08 PM

I bet a few got away with it early in the war. The sensors weren't vary good at that time and thru the whole war they were kind of spoty when the target was at parascope depth.

One thing you might keep in mind when you get into a convoy attack in your campains: Save your eels for the merchants. They are almost always bigger than the escorts and that will give you more renown to buy new toys for your boat with. The exception being capital ships, batle ships, crusers and carriers.

Rangoon

01-07-10, 11:57 PM

Ya, your stelth meter can be light up bright red and you still may go undetected. What it is tell in you is how easy the top side crews will be able to identify you using the noise you are making.

I'm still confused on this issue. A number of times now I've confirmed the following:

1. I'm 30 meters down (with only 5 meters room below me)
2. A Destroyer and/or Trawler is searching for me
3. I'm in silent mode at < or = 100 RPM, around 1-2 knots speed
- or -
3. Stopped
4. Noise meter shows green
5. Suddenly, without me changing anything, the noise meter becomes RED and I start hearing the sonar pinging me and getting louder.

I have not changed anything, yet suddenly I'm making more noise? Or is it possible that the meter does somehow convey the search mode or detection by the enemy?

EDIT: Also, I recall that I can be at full speed on the surface and the icon is green. So it must have something to do with who is listening as well.

KL-alfman

01-08-10, 01:23 AM

the icon is not only a "noise-o-meter" but an indicator of the state of detection as well, I suppose.
once I was down at 150m and as a DD was closing in the indicator showed gradually all its colours: green, light green, yellow, orange, light red, red.

I've now turned it off.
there's actually no need for it.

Rangoon

01-08-10, 03:05 AM

I've gone back and forth having it display and not. Since I'm still learning the ropes, it is good for investigating how the SH3 world operates. Knowing what it's telling me is helpful. But I'm with you and expect it'll come off soon since I'm learning that really all you can do is stay deep and stay quiet and let the slow dance play out. Hopefully they keep guessing wrong (even better if they never knew you were there except for the sinking ships all over the place).

Dissaray

01-08-10, 05:17 AM

The stealth meter was a little confusing for me at first too. But then someone explained it real well for me, or someone elce I don't recall; a fat lot of good it did me to seeing as I tured it off shortly after I figured out what it dose and how to interpert it :O:. The meter isn't an indication of weather or not you have been detected but rather an indication of how detectable you are at that moment.

Take for example what you said earlyer: You were siting full stop just off the botom riged for silent runing and the meter was green as would be expected beacouse it is hard to find a silent boat down there visualy or audably. Now it turned red when the enemy started to ping you; this is to be expected beacouse now you are reflecting the sound of the ping for the enemy to hear making you more detectable. Just beacouse the meter is red dosen't mean that they have found you only that if they point their hydrophones in your direction they are very likely to find you; even having the enemy pinging you is no gaurantee that they have found you, if I had a nickle for every time I was pinged and not found... Well I don't know how many nickles I would have but it would be a lot of them.

The only real way to know the enemy has found you when you are submerged is when a depth charge bounces off your hull or detonates realy close to you. Though I supose you could also use hydraphone readings to figure their search patern and see if it bisects you, but the depth charge meathod is way more fun.

Same goes for the surface in terms of the meter. It can be green even though it is a cleer sunny day but there is no one around beacouse the distance from you to the nearest ship is so great that there is zero chance that they will see you.

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 08:58 AM

Having watched it more carefully the last couple of sessions, I think there are SO many factors that go into how it determines your "stealth" factor... for instance even if you are rigged for silent running and at a dead stop, being only 30 m down is gonna kill the stealth factor if a nearby destroyer closes in and starts pinging. If they're actively looking for you, and that's as deep as you can go and they already know you're around there somewhere, all the silent running in the world is not going to keep you at full stealth.

At the beginning of the convoy attack exam, I can just sit there at periscope depth long enough to watch the entire convoy pass by, even maneuver into a better firing position, and the meter's still green - in theory I should be much more detectable than that, but apparently no one in the convoy is aware at that point that there's a u-boat in the vicinity, so they aren't even trying to find me yet. They haven't seen me, don't suspect I'm there, and I'm still at full stealth even at P depth and running 6-7 knots (and not rigged for schleichfahrt) alongside the convoy well within optimum firing distance from ships on the far side of it.

The meter seems to function based on a combination of where you are and what you're doing, where the enemy is and what they're doing, and what they know or suspect about your whereabouts - even if you don't know that they know or suspect anything.

You could probably be at 30 m running silent at a dead stop and if you sat there long enough for a distant destroyer to approach who didn't suspect your presence at all, they might pass right over and you'd remain at "full stealth" because you've done nothing to give away your presence AND they have no reason to be actively looking for you and so they aren't. But if it turned out that they did have a reason to be looking, even if you didn't know about it until it was too late, you'd quickly go from green to red the closer they got.

KL-alfman

01-08-10, 10:22 AM

HundertzehnGustav

01-08-10, 11:53 AM

At the beginning of the convoy attack exam, I can just sit there at periscope depth long enough to watch the entire convoy pass by, even maneuver into a better firing position, and the meter's still green - in theory I should be much more detectable than that, but apparently no one in the convoy is aware at that point that there's a u-boat in the vicinity, so they aren't even trying to find me yet. They haven't seen me, don't suspect I'm there, and I'm still at full stealth even at P depth and running 6-7 knots (and not rigged for schleichfahrt) alongside the convoy well within optimum firing distance from ships on the far side of it.

aint that because they are marked as neutrals, and only when you fire your firrst shot do they start searching for a possible enemy?

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 11:55 AM

Ah, didn't think of that.

HundertzehnGustav

01-08-10, 11:57 AM

Hell, it s just a wild guess, i have never done the Missions since GWX 2.0 was out... and on stock, only once.
Been a while...

:DL

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 12:10 PM

This was Naval Academy, the Convoy Attack "exam." IIRC all the ships were flying Brit flags. But f I'm not mistaken the date shown in gameplay was June 1939 (which makes sense if you're still in training for combat in a war that will begin a few months later) so seems like any ship would count as "neutral" at that point. I noticed it because I was looking at the time/date trying to figure out how much longer I'd have to wait until it got dark, if I decided to hold out for a night attack instead of getting my groove on in broad daylight.

It's kind of a weird thing that the Naval Academy stuff has you contending with what appears to be the RN, but datestamps it so that the war hasn't started yet.

I've got GXW3 installed and my playing time with stock was almost nil before that, so I really don't even know what difference there might be from one to the other or if the mod has much of an effect on the Academy sessions. Altho it did apparently make the Flak Gun exam impossible to pass, because that's about as far as I got in stock and that way I got an "Excellent." With GWX - fugeddaboudit. I can't even PASS the damn thing.

Sailor Steve

01-08-10, 12:22 PM

Naval Academy dates don't count. All ships are flagged as some potential fictional enemy, and are meant to be sunk. Of course we don't want the Tommies to know we're doing this, so we do it well away from their prying eyes.

Shh! It's a secret, 'kay?

HundertzehnGustav

01-08-10, 12:55 PM

AAAAAAhhhh

That explains it all - the war has not started yet, and if you d be running Stock, you would see GREEN icons on the map.
meaning the RN is neutral.

once you damage any of them in any way
or
they see a Torpedo trail,

they get nervous... but before that very second, you could surface next to them, they wouldn t care.

That is the secret... :)

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 01:04 PM

naval academy dates don't count. All ships are flagged as some potential fictional enemy, and are meant to be sunk. Of course we don't want the tommies to know we're doing this, so we do it well away from their prying eyes.

shh! It's a secret, 'kay?

OMG did I just start a war?

:doh:

Dissaray

01-08-10, 02:28 PM

hmm, interesting.
nevertheless I leave it turned off. :03:

but there is another question about "stealth":
what do you think is the range of sight a DD or merchant has in this conditions:
night, light showers, heavy fog, wind 15m/s

I'd like to know cause I'll try a surface-attack on a convoy and therefore either I know before or learn it the hard way ....

Under those coditions visibility would be quite limitied though in my last convoy attack my watch crew managed to "see" enemy ships a few K off but when I went up to the bridge all I got was a solid black screen. If I recal on the nav map, if you have contacts turned on, you can click on the enemy ship, or any other ship realy, and you can get some info on their detection capabilities if you zoom in enuf. One ring might be their visual range distance.

I generaly work off the docterain of "If I can see them chances are they can see me." That means if I see them I run or kill them.

So the war realy wasn't about the German invasion of Poland? Someone should realy tell people about this, wright a book or some thing. THE PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW!

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 02:56 PM

So the war realy wasn't about the German invasion of Poland? Someone should realy tell people about this, wright a book or some thing. THE PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW!

I didn't do it.

Nobody saw me do it.

You can't prove anything!

Sailor Steve

01-08-10, 02:56 PM

OMG did I just start a war?

:doh:
Yes, but only between them and you personally, and it will be over in just 24 hours.

Of course it will probably be over long before that, one way or another.:dead:

Jimbuna

01-08-10, 04:17 PM

LOL :DL

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 04:30 PM

THEY'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE!

Oh, wait...

:wah:

Rangoon

01-08-10, 04:55 PM

What I like about certain tools available such as the noise indicator (as we now should call the "detectablility and enemy interest-in-me indicator") is how to start filling in the blanks between the simulation and the real. That indicator lets me know, for example, what slight changes in RPM do to my noise level as far as the sim is concerned (what with digital thresholds and such).

At this point I have full realism set except for Weapons Officer, the noise meter, and through SH3 Commander I have hull integrity set to show.

The Weapons Officer helps me see how well target IDs are coming along (sometimes I still don't get it right), and that my firing solutions are at least close to what he thinks they should be. I can compare my own range determination to his, my speed determination to his, etc. To see if I'm doing my math correctly and that my process is solid.

The hull integerity is because at this point I have no idea whether I'm at 99% or 1% based on the hits I've taken. But really? Would I have absolutely no idea between those two extremes? So for now it helps me sort out how damage is simulated. Hopefully I can figure that out soon and remove it in the spirit of GWX.

I go back and forth between external view or not. Initially I had it off because I was too confused and tempted to take a peak at the surface rather than use the tools available to solve the problem (kept me from learning properly). Now I go back and forth. 'On' to help learn what tactics they use, what search patterns, how/when they make mistakes, etc. (isn't that something I would learn in my training?). 'Off' to solidify my use of the tools I have, especially in the Type IIa (for example determining torpedo hits with hydrophones when it's too dangerous to keep the periscope up). But I'm getting much better at using willpower in my decision of whether to use the external camera or not, now that I'm not hopelessly confused when submerged. So lately I've been keeping it on to enjoy the atmosphere, which is incredible in this sim.

Really, I can't stop playing this sim. I haven't felt this way since the early days of IL-2, Falcon 4.0 and Longbow 2 before that. EF2000 anyone? I digress...

sergei

01-08-10, 06:07 PM

as we now should call the "detectablility and enemy interest-in-me indicator"

Spot on :D:D:D

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 06:17 PM

Certainly seems to be the way it's working for me so far. :up:

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 06:34 PM

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 06:35 PM

It gets especially fun when I lower the periscope and all I have to work with is whatever info comes in from the hydrophone.

And by "fun" I mean "scary as hell." :O:

sergei

01-08-10, 07:40 PM

And by "fun" I mean "scary as hell." :O:
Yeah, good isn't it :DL

frau kaleun

01-08-10, 09:08 PM

Well I will probably try some single missions this weekend so we'll just see how good it is, lol.

KL-alfman

01-08-10, 10:23 PM

range of sight .....
I assume 800m is a wee-bit too close, swan showed up shooting up shells into the sky. but I did want to stay surfaced, so I had to take him out, and I did. a flower was very close too, so then I was put down and went to 160m (my prefered depth when escaping).
maybe due to heavy wethear I evaded easily.
had a different problem after that because the convoy started to change course and so the escorts forced my down again with only slight damages.
I still shadow the convoy and really don't like to give up.
best solution would be to wait till dusk, then a well measured run should follow.

(I just have to be more aggressive, we sink 'em all!)

Dissaray

01-08-10, 11:09 PM

If you realy want to have some fun geting to know and trust your hydrophones give this a try: Get into attack position and set up so you have a ruff 90 deg AOB shot, gather all the info you need to make the shot and then swivle you scope around untill the little number counter for your TDC reads all zeros and make note of the relitive baring. Then drop the scope down without moving it and take the shot baced only on your hydraphone readings when the target hits the relitive baring you set your scope at.

If you do it right your torpido won't have to turn at all and you will hit the target without ever seeing it again. This is a very useful skill to have later in the war or when attacking a convoy when leaving your scope up too long could kill you. Pluss it is realy cool to pull off I think.

Rangoon

01-09-10, 03:59 AM

Get into attack position and set up so you have a ruff 90 deg AOB shot, gather all the info you need to make the shot and then swivle you scope around untill the little number counter for your TDC reads all zeros and make note of the relitive baring. Then drop the scope down without moving it and take the shot baced only on your hydraphone readings when the target hits the relitive baring you set your scope at.

Yes, I'm looking forward to just that experience. It takes a lot of planning and data collection to get set up for this, but I completely understand the concept and hope to get this comfortable (or I would accept lucky) soon. It's a lot to juggle when submerged because you can't maneuver the way you can on the surface - in terms of speed and turning. Just means there's less room for error, and good judgment becomes imperative.

It's also a bit tougher because in order to get speeds, you need range and plotting. Assuming periscope is the most you get, this means using the mast height and correct ID to plot the course with timings. Then you have to get set up for the 90-degree AoB and roughly 0-degree bearing (0-degree gyro) ahead of time such that you have time to wait. And if there are escorts around...yeah - not going to happen for me tonight. Soon I hope.

Dissaray

01-09-10, 04:15 AM

If you are finding the tools you are provided in game lacking when it comes to gathering targeting data, I know I find them lacking, I would sugest looking up two mods. They both do the same basic things, the diferance is more in style realy. The mods are the OLC Gui or the MaGui. They both have a tool that quickly alows you to determine the speed of a ship using the stop watch; the same way they did back in the day if I understand rightly. Both can be found here, in the downloads section.

They both require you to relearn how to gather targeting data but once you figure them out you can be much quicker and more accurate than the stock tools. I think so any way. There is a vidio tutorial that goes thru the process of using the interfacie for the OLC Gui but it works just the same for the other. That reminds me, I should redownload that and have a look at some of the parts I have forgoten how to use so well...

I use the MaGui personaly and wouldn't consider going back to the stock system, and not just beacouse I have kind of forgoten how to use it. What I like most about it is the way it gets the player more involved in process, turning diles and taking readings and all that.

Rangoon

01-09-10, 11:45 AM

The mods are the OLC Gui or the MaGui.

Are they compatible with GWX 3.0? I have heard others talking about OLC and it sounded pretty 'hardcore' so I assumed I'd wait awhile on that, but maybe it's just what I need to flesh out the experience.

EDIT: In fact, this brings up another question. If you're submerged and you have a positive track determined for the contact, you can of course also get speed/range information simply by plotting points along the track based on bearings using the hydrophone. But I've also read about people counting propeller RPM in order to determine or at least confirm speed. But then I read that GWX (an older version) replaced the audio files so whatever chart there was no longer worked to count RPM. Is this still possible to do somehow with GWX 3.0?

Dissaray

01-09-10, 03:47 PM

Both of those mods are compatable with GWX 3.

I don't know much about the counting RPMs of the screws to determine speed any more than that it is theoreticaly possible. In theory I know that RPM to speed conversions will be differant for war ships and merchants beacouse war ships tipicaly had four blades on each prop and merchants generaly had three. I also know that sea conditikons would effect the outcome of the conversion, ruff seas would mean that more RPMs are required to sustain a given speed than in calm seas.

frau kaleun

01-09-10, 08:26 PM

I'm not sure I'm up to manual targeting yet but I know I'm going to want to give it a try eventually. I did print out a humongous tutorial on it that I probably got pointed to from here when I first visited, and it may be one for one of the mods mentioned above. Didn't get too far into reading it because I could see it was gonna be way too much to chew on until I got more comfortable with the absolute basics.

Did play through a bit of the Happy Times mission last night although I didn't get to finish it out because it got too late. Does look like a good one for learning how to pick your targets and get in position quickly since that big escort is on its way to assist the convoy.

I have to say, gameplay mode is a lot more fun than the Academy sessions!