Meine Wunschliste

[Sniper297]

First off, me being a Yankee Doodle Dandy from the USA the first thing I'd like to see for SHV is a USN expansion pack, me like Pacific war. Being a U boat skipper is a fun change of pace (for one thing it's a LOT more challenging to be on the losing side) but I love my US fleet boats.

My first subsim was a DOS based game called Gato, I also had Microprose Silent Service 1 and 2, as well as Silent Hunter 1, 2, 3, and 4. No real big complaints about any of them, all were pretty realistic for their times given the limitations of software. But. :03:

The main thing that's always been missing some of the hardcore gamers have mentioned many times before - you can't sit All Stop at periscope depth indefinitely. What I'd really like to see in the ultra realism setting is some type of variable ballast tank management screen, so you could do a trim dive and flood or empty all the different internal ballast tanks, both to balance the boat and get as near neutral buoyancy as you can. "Hovering" at periscope depth or 100 feet or whatever would be possible for a few minutes anyway, how long you could hover and how fast the boat rose or descended would depend on how good your trim is. A good diving officer might be able to hold motionless at periscope depth for 15-30 minutes.

The whole point to a submarine simulator is submerging, so more realistic control over that aspect don't seem like too much to ask. Settings could easily be dumbed down for casual players, turn on "automatic perfect neutral buoyancy" and even have an intermediate setting where you could turn control over to the diving officer, and how well they can hold depth depends on their skill and experience. That way you'd get better depth control as you progressed in your career, inexperienced diving officer and planesmen wobble up and down between 50 and 60 feet while trying to hold periscope depth, can't catch a decent trim so they need at least 4 knots to hold within 5 feet. As they gain experience they only need 1/2 knot to hold within 6 inches of the ordered depth.

I'd also like to see something where you could type in an actual NUMBER, I want 61 feet I click on the dial and get 59 or 63. Other ideas have been mentioned before, direct control over the diving planes, an inclinometer showing the dive or ascent angle, throw in your favorites here. :up:

[Sailor Steve]

"The whole point" is an easy phrase to misinterpret. "The whole point" of a submarine is indeed to submerge. You are correct - there is a whole lot more than that to be simulated - but Sniper never actually said that was all he wanted, just that it was something important that shouldn't be left out. Perhaps "The main point" might have been better wording, but his intent is easily understood, at least by me.

I agree with both of you. Yes, there is a whole lot more to worry about, but that is something that has been lacking from every subsim except Aces Of The Deep.

As to typing in the actual number, I'm not sure I agree. The captain wants a specific depth, and where using the periscope is concerned he can tell when that's not right, and order a change. But at seventy meters I would think it's kind of hard to know exactly, seeing that it's based on water pressure that changes from time to time. I could be wrong on that, and being that specific wouldn't hurt. I do think it's something long lacking from the rudder, though. The course should be precise, and the compass should make it relatively easy. If I order a course of 310, I don't want 309 or 311. A few hundred miles of that can get you lost pretty quickly.

[Lord Justice]

"The whole point" is an easy phrase to misinterpret. "The whole point" of a submarine is indeed to submerge. You are correct "The main point" might have been better wording, but his intent is easily understood, at least by me.

I do think it's something long lacking from the rudder, though. The course should be precise, and the compass make it relatively easy. If I order a course of 310, I don't want 309 or 311. A few hundred miles of that can get you lost pretty quickly. Sir , if i may, the above statement is being used in the wrong context, The whole mechanics, engineering of the submarine are designed toward the main principle of submersion. So the Main point, is to suggest using Whole point followed by your above wording, is rather lets say slight, as whole point is usally a conclusion written in such definitive way. ;) As for the rudder and course setting. This i shall not confuse as an unwelcome recognition, on the contrary, one warms to this very much, precision is of worthieness and ought to be mended accordingly. :up: By your leave sir, i wish you a good day.

[Sniper297]

Judging by the phrasing I'm guessing that English is a second language for SilentHunterV, hence misunderstanding the meaning. I meant what I said though, the whole point of a simulator is to simulate something, but the whole point of a SUBMARINE simulator as opposed to a torpedo boat simulator is underwater operations, it's the primary thing that makes it different from a torpedo boat simulator. In my opinion a submarine simulator should put the physics of operating a submersible vessel at the top of the priority list rather than just faking it.

And I agree, normally the captain isn't involved, he also don't have to look up the ship type in the book, set the mast height, enter range and bearing and AOB into the TDC, keep a running plot on the chart, set the torpedo depths and open the outer doors himself either. All that is optional because some people like to do it, trimming for neutral buoyancy, pumping from the forward to the after trim tank and adding a couple hundred gallons to the Q tank or whatever could also be an option that you wouldn't have to use if you're not interested. In fact an option to turn it off completely and ignore buoyancy physics would be absolutely required, since there are probably quite a few players who LIKE being able to stop the boat dead at any depth and remain completely motionless.

[longam]

Its already a click fest in SH4 just to do manual targeting. I couldn't imagine adding controls for trim and ballast, this would be way to much to handle during an attack run.

On the other hand if your just stalking and plotting it could serve to ad to the realism.

[Lord Justice]

Its already a click fest in SH4 just to do manual targeting. I couldn't imagine adding controls for trim and ballast, this would be way to much to handle during an attack run.

On the other hand if your just stalking and plotting it could serve to ad to the realism.Sir longam, well said, couldnt agree more. :yep:

[Sniper297]

No argument here, way too much clicking and dragging involved to do anything in a hurry. I've often said we need a hotkey command, "set all fish to 25 feet high speed, open all outer doors", rather than having to click and drag and Q each tube individually, wotdahell am I carrying all these crewman around for if I gotta do everything myself, I'll make all you scurvy dogs walk the plank. :arrgh!: No, I was thinking more on the lines of a daily trim dive, take her down to 150, stop the motors and let her drift to a stop, pump and flood trim tanks until she stops rising or descending or tipping fore and aft for a few minutes. Once that's done the trim is set for the day, wouldn't have to tinker with it in the middle of an attack unless you had flooding from damage or something after getting depth charged.

For those who are unaware, the external ballast tanks are all or nothing when you dive - you would partially flood the external ballast tanks to get a "decks awash" trim, but when actually diving they're flooded completely, no air in them at all. The trim tanks are inside the pressure hull, those are the ones that are partially filled or emptied to get a trim. US fleet boats also had a negative tank which was normally flooded for quick dives, then "blown to the mark" before reaching periscope depth to get that neutral buoyancy. They also had a bow buoyancy tank that was blown when surfacing to get the bow up in a hurry.

Creating full management for all that would probably not really add much fun factor, but taking away the invisible concrete blocks that hold you at 60 feet with zero drift would add realism and be more fun in my opinion. Silent running at 230 feet drifting deeper slowly, here come the depth charges so we can make noise for a few minutes, all ahead flank, pump 500 pounds from the main trim tank to sea. Slow down after the depth charges subside, now we're a little lighter but still can't hold at 1 knot, can we pump out another 200 pounds or so? Not yet, pumps make too much noise, increase to 2 knots and see if we can hold depth at that speed. How are we doing on that after torpedo room bulkhead? 30 more minutes and it's still flooding? Okay, can't run pumps and give them a steady noise to get a bearing on, better a quick blast - blow the after trim tank dry next time one of them tin cans passes overhead.

[ichso]

@Sniper297
Well, I would doubt the Silent Hunter series ever having been a 'submarine simulator'. It has always been rather a wartime simulator as the whole, I think.
And a video game on top of that.
So they always tried to merge intuitive controls, an interesting campaign, historical accuracy, nice graphics and sound, submarine physics and mechanics into a single piece of software. All that within the time constraints that such a commercial products brings.
If they really would emphasis the diving mechanics as you want them to do, they would need to pull some focus from other aspects and the game would stagnate the according parts of it's development. But what they try to do (at least forced by the publisher) is to please a broader audience instead of only the realism freaks.
We are still about to see what they really did with the u-boad interior this time. But I guess that a lot of work must have went into getting the animations and behaviour of your ingame crew to make that a realistic (instead of irritating) experience. So, after all its still rather a video game than a extensive simulation (but still pretty deep for a video game nonetheless ;)).

You are looking for things that are usually included in mods or specifically dedicated open source projects. The latter ones are interesting because people there have no time limit for their works and can focus on a few points that don't have to appeal to a broad audience.

[Méo]

But what they try to do (at least forced by the publisher) is to please a broader audience instead of only the realism freaks.
But I guess that a lot of work must have went into getting the animations and behaviour of your ingame crew to make that a realistic (instead of irritating) experience. So, after all its still rather a video game than a extensive simulation (but still pretty deep for a video game nonetheless ;)).

You are looking for things that are usually included in mods or specifically dedicated open source projects. The latter ones are interesting because people there have no time limit for their works and can focus on a few points that don't have to appeal to a broad audience.

Well said ! :up: