How do I sneak into a port if the water is so shallow?

[kasperl]

Read in some posts here that sometimes you will find some juicy targets anchored in some ports. So in the first patrol in Aug 1939 before war is declared I did some reconnaissance to some principal ports like Plymouth. However I discovered that after I get to several kilometers far from the anchored ships the water is only about 10 meters deep, not even enough to let me dive to periscope depth. And I doubt that it is possible to sneak into a port surfaced, so how should I do it?
Thanks in advance.

[David I]

:hmmm:On a moonless night, deck's awash (depth 7m), slow speed, and with little hope of seeing your loved ones again.:yep:

DavidI

[Tom]

the water is only about 10 meters deep, not even enough to let me dive to periscope depth.

How did you check the depth? By asking the navigator for depth under keel? If so, then there is enough water for diving. When you're on the surface, your keel is already at 5 meters or so. With 10 meters of water under the keel, that makes a total of 15 meters. Periscope depth puts your keel at 13 meters, leaving a safety margin of 2 meters.

As this wasn't historically done (except once, at Scapa Flow), I haven't done much harbor raiding, but the few times I did try it out of curiosity, I was always able to sneak in at periscope depth. Getting out proved to be the difficult part.

[kasperl]

So it still could be done?
And I believe it is not a must to get into 1km to hit several sitting ducks.

[Commander Gizmo]

You'll likely find that there are more things to prevent your successful attack over distance than just depth...

And like it's been said, getting in is the easy bit.

[Dissaray]

One thing you could try doing is finding the shiping chanle for the port. Most ports in reality have a deep chanle cut into them so the larger cargo and naval ships can get in and out. I don't know if they are modled into the game or not though.

A word of advice from my two failed attempts at port attacks: Mark your path in so you can falow it out. Ports are beset with mines and anti-sub and torpido nets. So if by chance, skill or luck you make it in and make an attack you will need to avoid them on your way out and you know that your way in was cleer of them so you might as well use that.

Also while you are right that you don't need to be close to hit a target that is moored at port it is a good idea to get in to at least 1500m range as it minimizes the chance of your torpido striking any nets.

[Brag]

Port raiding, heh?
Leave your grsmophone, money and your girlfrind's telephone number with me. :D

[Kimmers]

in my opinion port raids aren't worth the risk, the tonnage you get in there is never worth 40 dead men and a career, as i've learned several times :wah:

[Ping Panther]

At any rate, kasperl, keep us posted of your raids. :arrgh!:
Good Hunting! :ahoy:

[kdv]

Once you do get into a port, make sure to set your torpedoes to the minimum depth, to go over any anti-sub/torp nets.

It's best to fire from a long distance anyways, allowing you to get turned around and heading out before the torpedoes reach their targets. Most torpedoes will run about 5km's before running out of power.

[Sailor Steve]

In real life there were only two harbor raids: Prien's on Scapa Flow, which was carefully planned by Doenitz himself, and one in the Caribbean (I think). Being able to raid harbors in the game is entirely...well, gamey. The water was indeed shallow, and the defenses were much better than even in GWX.

I wouldn't do it, but then I'm a coward.:sunny:

[flag4]

DON'T!

but you could try a polish port, they're all rather sleepy in '39.

you may sink the odd one but you may not get away alive.

[KeptinCranky]

It's not all that difficult to be honest...
I've done quite a few of these raids, there really tough ones are Liverpool and some of the southern British ports, I believe Plymouth has such a narrow channel you cannot realistically attempt.

Anything else can be done, if you really want to,
you just have to be ready to take out some patrolling nastys if necessary and take your time.

a good beginners' port to raid would be Danzig and Hela in september 39, just to get a feel of it. then go for the ones that bag you something big like Dunkirk, Loch Ewe, or New York :D St Helena is Easy too but watch out for the minefield....

I do have to say that I feel port raiding is silly, I just had to do a lot of it for GWX testing..... Had to make sure they were all alright, no mispaced ships and such...
it just invites you to exploit the limits of SH3s programming where escorts are concerned. they're much easier to avoid in a narrow channel where they can't move properly than in open water, That's why Liverpool was doable.

I much prefer a convoy attack in the western approaches.

[Jimbuna]

Deep water is your ally.....stay out in the open seas http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Ancient Mariner]

I have only raided two ports succesfully & had one go horribly wrong....

Scapa Flow in a type VIIb in early 40,only bagged an auxilliary cruiser,managed to hit the Nelson but she didn't count as a sinking...shallow water & put 4 eels into the Hood during the same raid,same outcome as Nelson...had to do it to prove I could.

Curacao-1942 in A Type9,easy port with plenty of fat juicy tankers:arrgh!: Not many DD's or ASW trawlers,subnet in main entrance,go deep under the net:yeah: Think I pulled 50K tonnage on this missions raid:arrgh!:

Freetown-1943......:nope:Possibly the dumbest raid I've attempted,hit a mine field:damn::damn: that was my last harbour raid,sticking to the convoy hunts now:arrgh!:

[Captain Birdseye]

Trying to creep into ports in the channel or Gibraltar is sheer suicide.

I found ports that are surrounded by deep water, that I could reach within a few mins at slowest speed were the best targets, but I don't do it anymore :D

[sunvalleyslim]

Kasperl, Take your shower shoes off so you don't slip on the rocks.........:D:D:D:har:

[kasperl]

Have conducted 3 port raids, all in late 1939.
First in Dover, located a war ship which could be hit from out of the port, so fired 3 torpedoes without really entering the port, after its sunk, identified it's a Southampton class cruiser. BTW: It seems ships moored in port often cannot be identified as a target, even after you get very close to them, wonder why.
Then went across the straight to Dunkirk, sneaked into the port at periscope depth, 1 knot. Sank one 20k ton Troop ship, one 10k ton tanker, and a destroyer, then returned by the same route.
After these success, I felt brave. So in next patrol I went straight to Scapa. Arrived it southeast entrance in twilight, then 1 knot, dived as deep as possible and at last made it in several (game) hours. However, there were no principal ships, not even a cruiser... only 1 destroyer and several small merchant ships, ahh... And I failed to made it out, thus ended my first career.:dead:

[DaveU186]

St Helena is Easy too but watch out for the minefield....

A favourite of mine. Never knew of any minefield though. :rotfl2:

[Synthfg]

Trying to creep into ports in the channel or Gibraltar is sheer suicide.

I found ports that are surrounded by deep water, that I could reach within a few mins at slowest speed were the best targets, but I don't do it anymore :D

Gibs Fairly easy in GWIII
hug the coast of spain around from the Atlantic and then cut across the bay,
The Cruisers to the North are protected by a net but there is a gap by the breakwater just large enough to slip through

[TarJak]

http://subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=96843

I wrote this a few years ago. It might help you out. It was modified slightly and included into the GWX manual.

[Task Force]

Port raids. ive dun em... But they really arnt worth it most times.:yep:

[Engan]

The easyest? ports to sneak in to, by my experince is the ones at the english east coast, in 39 to early 40, but not much of targets tho

[BillCar]

I raided Scapa Flow today on the way back from a patrol off the Rockall Bank, and lived to tell the tale – but just barely. Using GWX 3.0, I slipped in at about 21h00, on the surface, and then went to periscope depth while inside the port to do the targeting.

Why?

Because I went in in horrible, HORRIBLE weather, and it was so dark that I couldn't even see the destroyer that was 500m in front of me. Targeted it with the hydrophones and, since I wasn't going to be sticking around for another target, fired all four tubes at it. Hit it with two, the others probably passed underneath it due to the rough seas.

Made a break for it out the narrow channels to the east, got messed up with depth charges, but was able to patch myself up and get back to Wilhelmshaven without any corpses on board.

That was Nov. 30th, 1939.

[Snestorm]

Hmmm.
I thought he was talking about sneaking back into one's homeport, after completing a latewar patrol.

Never entered an enemy port, and never will.

[nikbear]

:hmmm:On a moonless night, deck's awash (depth 7m), slow speed, and with little hope of seeing your loved ones again.:yep:

DavidI

Only 20 posts and that sums it up :yeah: Doesn't get better than that:03:

[maxextz]

i enjoy port infiltration its very time consuming but its worth it:yeah: if you can get in and out without being detected.

[Mlody]

heh once i've made day aproach on scapa flow...
Most of DD sunk by hitting the shore, one that made it somehow, damaged my uboot pretty hard... as outcome i've entered the port, and what?! One ship bigger than 10k BRT, definatelly was not worth the risk...

[Jimbuna]

heh once i've made day aproach on scapa flow...
Most of DD sunk by hitting the shore, one that made it somehow, damaged my uboot pretty hard... as outcome i've entered the port, and what?! One ship bigger than 10k BRT, definatelly was not worth the risk...

Sounds like you loaded a saved game pretty close to the entrance.

[Iranon]

(Using GWX + ACM): Port raiding feels a little too easy at times if you know when to stay on the surface and when to dive. Of course, IRL you only have one life which you'd lose before you found out what does and what doesn't work.

Targets are possibly a little too juicy as well. If every patrol schedule includes '...and my usual 2 passenger liners in Dunkirque' or '...and let's see if I can snag a capital ship in Gibraltar' it takes some of the pleasure out of the game.

[neepster]

How does one GET into Scapa Flow? I had my Type II in early 40 up there and actually ran into the anti-submarine barrier at fairly high TC, but luckily didn't sink (wasn't going very fast). I didn't feel like hanging around and looking for another way in, but obviously there must be one if some of you have gotten in.

[Iranon]

As has been said, the easiest way of sneaking into ports is usually surfaced on a moonless night. There are lots of different ways into Scapa Flow, but I can't honestly recommend it (although I manage to sink the Hood there in my current campaign).

I'd say the bigger problem is getting out intact... annoying underwater barriers and sneaking out on the surface is made diffuclt by the strange awareness model:
Nobody even knows you are there... but 2 seconds after a torpedo impact several km away, you are under fire from every ship in range. You dive and play dead, nobody finds you... but if you raise your scope to take a peek after several hours, it'll be shot off immediately.

[Jimbuna]

How does one GET into Scapa Flow? I had my Type II in early 40 up there and actually ran into the anti-submarine barrier at fairly high TC, but luckily didn't sink (wasn't going very fast). I didn't feel like hanging around and looking for another way in, but obviously there must be one if some of you have gotten in.

Welcome aboard neepster http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/welcome.gif

IIRC, upon approaching the net turn to the left/starboard and head toward the centre of the harbour (always keeping close/within visual range of the net) and you should come across a small gap before you encounter the other half of the net.

[neepster]

Thanks for the info! Next time I am up at Scapa I will try this :)

I have had Silent Hunter 3 for a long time, but put it away for a couple years to play other games, then recently went to U-505 in Chicago and bought and read Herbert Werner's Iron Coffins. Then decided to stream Netflix Das Boot-The Director's Cut one night and that was all she wrote. Had to play SH3 again :). I haven't installed GWX3 (sp?) yet but am going to download it. From what I can tell it makes the game a fair bit more realistic as well as prettier?

Thanks for the welcome, BTW. I'm in July 1940 with U-50 in my career. I had actually never played a career the first time I had the game installed, just kept playing that "Happy Times" scenario over and over :)

Career is a lot more challenging and ultimately more fun, but it was very hard with a Type II to get more than 1 or 2 ships on each outing.

Any recommendations for a new guy? Install GWX3 now, or wait until I am finished with this career, etc? Thanks!

[Jimbuna]

If your used to the game/controls/tactics etc. I'd give GWX a spin http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Merchant Raider]

Hi All
try east end of scapa flow and past by the blockage ships early in the war and enter the flow that way .
you will have to surface to enter but i enjoy the rush ?
:arrgh!:

[PappyCain]

One of my best experiences was getting hung on a net and getting away alive.

Thought I would creep into Scapa Flow and see what is up. After pedalling the boat at night along the shoreline passing about 8 destroyers screening the entrance I made my way into the outer harbor giggling with anticipation - also had this quick mission set so I can watch the cinema topside.

Well dontcha know I run my boat right up the net. Shore Battery Search Lights come on and beam down on me. Ooops. I gently back her down and off. The outer harbor destroyers are on their way and the water is shallow. Hmmm. I have plenty of oranges on board so I hunker next to the net and back her as close to the shoreline as I dare.

First destroyer comes in from the inner harbor and gets hung up on the net. No matter what he does he cannot free himself. Next feller comes in slow and easy. I munch on my 2nd orange watching topside cinema. He firing starshells, meanwhile shore battery has lights blazing and destroyers are sweeping their searchlights.

I reach for a banana now that 3-4 more arrive. Things are tensing up.

Over the side go a spate of DC's near but not close enough to even pop my gauge glass. Behold. An explosion! The DC's were so shallow they blew about 8 men off the destroyer and she caught fire.

Now 4 more destroyers show up. One gets hung on the shoreline but manages to back off. The others are reticent to depth charge now but angle about.

All are pinging the hell out of me. I have a second banana.

Now the sun is coming up. With all their screws turning (creating noise) I go silent and creep along the shoreline at 3knots.

I am watching and they are depth charging and one destroyer must have hit a mine and she folds like a cheap suit.

Yep. I slinked away. There were a total of 11 destroyers at the net. Their antics were exercised well and I compliment the programmers. This sim is terrific. Less expensive than the fruit I ate!

S'

PC
____
(http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=144793&highlight=scapa+flow)

[Panser]

Pappycain, that's probably the best account of in-game action i've read on here. Bravo!

[HundertzehnGustav]

:yeah::haha::har: