Auschwitz sign stolen (and recovered)

[Dowly]

Hmpf... seems the Finnish media didnt think it was newsworthy (or then I just didnt see it mentioned). Anywho, was news to me. :nope:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/21/auschwitz-nazi-poland

[Skybird]

First time I learned about that letter "B" in "ARBEIT" being attached by a rebellious worker top down - I never noted it before. It put a smile on my face to imagine that even under those terrible conditions in the camp, at least some minds were capable to imagine this maybe symbolic but original form of resistence, and to carry it out - and the camp guards of the self-declared superior "Herrenrasse" not noticing it! :yeah:

[Dowly]

TBH, never did notice that either. ;)

[Letum]

First time I learned about that letter "B" in "ARBEIT" being attached by a rebellious worker top down - I never noted it before. It put a smile on my face to imagine that even under those terrible conditions in the camp, at least some minds were capable to imagine this maybe symbolic but original form of resistence, and to carry it out - and the camp guards of the self-declared superior "Herrenrasse" not noticing it!


Sorry to spoil the story a little, but it's unlikely to be upside down.
The first part of the 20th century saw an explosion of new fonts, some of
which used with this style of 'B'. The sign more likely to just be in a font
that is meant to have a top-heavy 'B'.

Ed: out of curiosity, here is the sign with the B flipped:
Strange, but not the most unusual font at the time by a long shot. I guess I have just been conditioned by years of
font conformity to view it as odd.
http://i.imagehost.org/0696/ABF2.jpg

[Dowly]

Thanks for clarifying that Letum. :salute:

[kranz]

Once I heard a story that the guy who rotated the letter was punished somehow but never found it confirmed. There was a reward offered-sth like 30.000 Euro for person who could help in finding the sign(read: tell the police that his neighboir has recently dug 3 big words in his garden). All of them are said to have already been convicted for robbery and similar acts. Unfortunatelly the sign was cut into three parts.(I pay 1 euro reward for the person who will guess how they cut it :D)

PS: Letum was faster than my post...hmm.. never heard that story though I've been to the camp twice(I live sth like 60 km from it)and heard from the historian who shows you all the places the version that is above..so now rly dunno

[Dowly]

(I pay 1 euro reward for the person who will guess how they cut it :D)

They cut all the words in separate pieces (it's said in the article :haha:). Now, donate that 1€ to Subsim. :yep:

[kranz]

pwned:cry: and sth that was not in the article: the whole camp is "protected" by four guards and cameras that have only an "online" mode which means no recording. That allowed Polish officals to cry about money which they lack for protecting our national "good" and turn their heads towards Germany and Israel....

[Skybird]

On the B-font, I refer to several German news reports about the theft that made brief side-comments on the B being top-down (read it twice), and I refer to the German wikipedia site that identifies the man installing the letter intentionally wrong as Jan Liwacz, a fitter/metal worker (Kunstschlosser) who was confirmed by several surviving witnesses of the camp to have installed the letter top down as a form of protest.

I certainly do not know all fonts in the world, but those I have seen or have installed in Word, see the upper and lower part of the capital B to be of either the same size, or the lower part bigger than the upper part - not the other way around. that is also true for text fonts used in Jugendstil. The upper half of the B being bigger than the lower half, I have never seen anywhere. And the font being used on that sign over the gate, are not that special at all.

All that does not prove you wrong Letum, I know, it could be that you are right. I just do not see a need for that more complex theory. If the reversed B would be a regular font, one would expect to see it in other German texts and signs of that time, too.

When they weld the three parts of the sign together again, they can use the opportunity to fix that B, right? :D

[Letum]

I just do not see a need for that more complex theory.

Likewise, the alternative explanation could be true, but I see the font
explanation as by far the most simple. We know such fonts where in use.

[SteamWake]

I found it interesting in that there were evidently 5 pepole involved.. or at least were arrested.

[Skybird]

Likewise, the alternative explanation could be true, but I see the font
explanation as by far the most simple. We know such fonts where in use.

Do you have a source for the "who was confirmed by several surviving witnesses" bit?

What I said:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei


Am Tor des Stammlagers Auschwitz (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/KZ_Auschwitz_I_(Stammlager)) befindet sich der Schriftzug „Arbeit macht frei“ mit einem auf dem Kopf stehenden Buchstaben B (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/B). Ehemalige Auschwitz-Häftlinge berichten, es habe sich um einen heimlichen Protest ihres Mitgefangenen Jan Liwacz gehandelt, der als Kunstschlosser mehrere Auftragsarbeiten für die SS ausführen musste.

Edit:

the English wikipedia entry also mentions it:

the sign was made in 1940 by Polish political prisoners headed by Jan Liwacz (camp number 1010).[1] (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/#cite_note-Liwacz-0) The upper bowl in the "B (http://www.subsim.com/wiki/B)" in "ARBEIT" is wider than the lower bowl, appearing to some as upside-down. Allegedly it was made on purpose by political prisoners to make a signal what is really going on in Auschwitz.

[Dowly]

Weee dooont speak germanyy!!!

[Letum]

the English wikipedia entry also mentions it:

pfft
It also mentions the font variations.

I guess the jury is gonna be out for a long time on this one.

Rebellious workers making small victories against unobservant camp
guards is, of course, always going to be the more popular version on it's
narrative merit, however scant the evidence.

[kranz]

Kazimierz Zając
nr obozowy 261
Napis "Arbeit macht frei" wykonany został w 1940 roku. Litery wycinał więzień o nazwisku Liwacz. Celowo wyciął literkę "B" odwrotnie.

Which means:

Kazimierz...
camp number 261

Caption Arbeit Macht Frei was done in 1940. The letters were cut by a prisoner named Liwacz. He cut the letter B as "turned over"(here my translation fails...) on purpose

from http://www.mdsm.pl/index.php?language=PL&id=173

and more:
Jan Liwacz
nr obozowy 1010
To pewnego rodzaju złośliwość, która dała nam małą satysfakcję.

Kazimierz Zając
nr obozowy 261
Nie mógł ruszyć żadnej innej litery, tylko "B" nadawała się do tego. Robił to w głębokiej tajemnicy.

Jan Liwacz:
It was kinda mischievousness, which gave us satisfaction
Kazimierz Zajac:
He(Liwacz) could not move any other letter, only B could be moved. He did that in deep conspiracy.

[Letum]

on purpose


Says who and how do they know other than they see what looks like an upside down B?
It sounds very much like an urban myth to me.

[breadcatcher101]

I always thought it was made out of wrought iron.

Never have been there in person, though...just looked like it.

[kranz]

Says who and how do they know other than they see what looks like an upside down B?
It sounds very much like an urban myth to me.

Huh?Hold your horses, ok? I'm just telling you what:
1.I heard-said by approved historian-ok, mby he is selling a myth...
2.was said by prisoners who worked on that sign

I'm not saying that I believe 100% in that story but so far the only one who did NOT show any written proof was you, sir....

[Jimbuna]

<Back OT>

Pleased to see the idiots have been apprehended...whatever the motive, at the very least it was in extremely bad taste and a slap in the face for all those who suffered there during the war :nope:

[Skybird]

Says who and how do they know other than they see what looks like an upside down B?
It sounds very much like an urban myth to me.
You have a link to a roughly matching font scheme of that time having a capital B with the upper half bigger than the lower half?

I just searched for fonts being used in Germany in the 19th and 20 century, but I found no match. The letterblock fonts (various Fraktura versions 16-20th century, Schwabacher: 15th-16th century) and various handwriting fonts (Kurrent, Sütterlin, Volksschrift, Offenbacher) that were used, all do not have a B with reversed proportions like that.

[Schroeder]

Good that they got those idiots.:yeah:

[Shearwater]

I never got it why they would steal the sign in the first place - you can't sell it, and it's too much of an effort for a simple bad joke (plus the risk it involves).

[kranz]

I never got it why they would steal the sign in the first place - you can't sell it,

Actually there is a rumour that a guy from Sweden wanted to buy it(probably he hired them), dunno, maybe for his wicked collection or sth...

Police have shown the sign and letter "i" in word Frei is missing....

[OneToughHerring]

You have a link to a roughly matching font scheme of that time having a capital B with the upper half bigger than the lower half?

I just searched for fonts being used in Germany in the 19th and 20 century, but I found no match. The letterblock fonts (various Fraktura versions 16-20th century, Schwabacher: 15th-16th century) and various handwriting fonts (Kurrent, Sütterlin, Volksschrift, Offenbacher) that were used, all do not have a B with reversed proportions like that.

It could easily be a one off - font for that sign only. The b with the upper loop bigger reminds me of some early 20th century German films like Metropolis and Dr Caligari's cabinet for some reason, adds a kind of expressionistic flavor. Might be appropriate, I guess.

Saw some of the pics of the retrieved sign, they actually broke up the sign into pieces, and the i is missing? Makes me wonder, what would be an appropriate sentence for messing up an invaluable piece of history? People who grab souvenirs are probably already causing enough damage to the camp.

[Skybird]

A (German) comment that makes good sense:

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/meinung/anderemeinung/Auschwitz;art22196,2981975

Personally I always have felt that monuments are usually hopelessly overestimated. and where they help to distract from present realities, they even become a bad joke.

Spending 60 million for the restoration of a monument, while accepting Iran to threaten Israel and preparing it's destruction so that afterwards one can be sorry about the past again and errect another monument in another rememberance of the poor Jews - that really makes little sense. One could even say it is cynical. And while these moneys get invested into a KZ-theme park that probably costed far less than 60 million at the time it was errected, survivors of the camp still have not goten compensation from either the German or Polish state.

The NYP has reported that Iran is testing fuses that are to be used in nuclear weapons - and only in nuclear weapons. 60 million is just 1% of the total turnover from business deals of German companies with Iran.

[OneToughHerring]

According to Finnish media the theft was carried out by Swedish neonazis in the request of a wealthy British collector who wanted the sign for his collections. The neonazis were planning to use the money to fund attacks in Sweden.