God Save Me From the Type IIA

[BrewerAlpha]

I'm a new SH3 player, got the game about a week ago. So far I've been just messing around testing with 0% Realism at various years and I decided to settle down and try a high-realism campaign starting in 1939.

I'm stuck in the Type IIA. At first, I didn't mind the tiny boat. I thought it would be a decent little starter boat, and I fancied the thought of getting attached to the little guy. Unfortunately, I've grown to hate it.

The range is horrible, I think I could swim faster than her, and the cache of torpedoes is horrible. Granted, my hunting skills aren't that good yet and it takes me 2 or 3 torpedoes to take down one boat. So, after two sunk ships, I'm done for and headed back to the barn - and that's if I don't run out of fuel first. Before somebody brings it up, I am trying to conserve my fuel (lower speeds, running submerged on batteries). For what it's worth, I don't have GWX so I don't have the luxury of Milk Cows.

I see all these patrol reports on here where you guys sink like 50 tons of English steel and I get discouraged.

Anyway, rant over.

[irish1958]

The range of the type II is unrealistic in SH3. This has been a topic of discussion and the subject of some mods.
I recently tried the mod "livingSH3" and found it terrific; however, I started a patrol with a Type IIA boat from Wilhelmshaven in Aug, 1939 and was down to 50% fuel after going only half way to England, running on standard. This problem has been addressed in GWX.
The only answer is to turn off limited fuel, as the range is far too limited to allow one to complete a patrol.

[sergei]

Oh yeah, the Type II.
I got a lot of love for the Type II. It's a scrappy little underdog.

However, as you have found out, it is really not suitable for a first time player. Makes everything so much harder.
You're battling the limitations of the boat and trying to learn to play the game at the same time. Can make life very frustrating.

My advice, pick a Type VII. You'll love it. It's got range, firepower and speed. Great boat to learn the game in.
It's been a while since I played stock, but I'm sure you can pick a starting flotilla that has type VII boats. Try career starts in the different flotillas, you should be able to get one in '39.

And welcome aboard :salute:

[mookiemookie]

There are some folks who love the Type II's, but I'm not one of them.

In real life, Type II patrols only lasted a couple of weeks at most. They didn't go farther than the coasts of England and they were used (not counting the Black Sea operations or as training boats) in early war, so you wouldn't have had the luxury of a milk cow anyways. Heck, where the milk cows were stationed, you wouldn't have even had the fuel to reach the milk cow!

I'd start with the Type VIIb if I were you. There's plenty of upgrade potential, so you don't feel like you're starting out with a super-boat. When you feel like you've got your feet under you, I'd definitely give the GWX mod a shot. You'll be absolutely amazed at it. Also, SH3 Commander. The rage of options that opens up for you is awesome, too.

Welcome aboard!

[Sailor Steve]

I'm one of those who do love the 'Dugout Canoe', but I've played enough that I kind of enjoy the frustration of a two-month patrol without ever seeing a single enemy ship. I can get to the British east coast and have plenty of fuel for a patrol and back again, and do alright.

In reality there were only six IIAs built. The IIB had better range and was the variant used in the early war. GWX does indeed increase the range to something servicable, and includes the Kiel Canal mod (you're not playing stock and trying to sail all the way around Denmark by chance, are you?).

But the advice you've been given is solid: Taking a Type VII will alleviate those frustrations and make you a tonnage ace (and you'll have a lot more fun doing it)!

[Weiss Pinguin]

Type II is definitely good for a challenge. Go for the Type IID ASAP if you're going for a Canoe career, the doubled range is easily the D's biggest advantage over the IIA.

[Damo]

Well I recently started a new '39 campaign in the 1st Flot. in a IIA, U-16 (actually a IIB in RL) and it's the first time I've used one since I started the stock game before GWX. As far as I can remember, the GWX experience is better than stock and I'm averaging about 18000GRT per patrol after 5 patrols. I do have to watch my fuel but I'm able to stay out on the East coast of the UK for 10 days or so as long as I stay submerged and only surface to recharge. I do like to station my boat just off the Firth of Forth as there is quite a lot of traffic in that little nook, but I avoid warships like the plague due to the shallow depths.

In short, get GWX regardless, but start out with a type VII until you get your skills honed and come back to the canoe when you want a challenge.

[Caeruleus]

I'm playing stock SH3 with SH3 Commander. I am new fairly new to the game and I have never been in anything other than a II. My last patrol, in August 1940, asked me to relocate from Wilhelmshaven to Brest. This presented a real challenge - do I go through the Channel, which I suspect is very dangerous, or try and go round the British Isles, which is an awfully long way on limited fuel!

In the end I decided to go to Brest the long way round and I had a hugely enjoyable patrol, sinking 8,000 tons along the way, and surviving air and escort attacks undamaged. But I had to go ahead slow almost the whole way, and travel submerged as much as possible. It took me almost a whole month, and at times it was incredibly nerve wracking, but I made it into Brest on the smell of an oil rag and I felt a great sense of achievement to see the band playing a welcome on the quayside! I am a little disappointed if this is an unhistorical experience....but it was certainly fun!

[Ping Panther]

The Type II u-boat is much loved and hated for is underdog manners in a way that resembles how the U.S. submariners felt about the meager S-class subs they were assigned to or hopefully only just trained in at the outbreak of WW2.

Caeruleus, it sounds like you are really going to appreciate a sub upgrade somewhere along your SH career.
Maybe swap your Type II for a test-drive in a XXI, and leave the top down! :03:

[Dissaray]

If you are looking to up your kill rate I sugest some practice in the single missions. They take all the guess work and hunting out of finding targets to shoot at and you can chouse any boat you want to do them in. The best way to learn to take down a medium or large ship with only one or two torpidos is to experiment with aiming points and depth of shot and these missions will give you plenty of oppertunity to experiment.

In addition to that they will give you a lot of experiance at runing form escorts and give you the opertunity to come up with convoy attack tactics of your own and try out some of the ones you pick up on boards like this one with out having to hunt all over the Atlantic for hours trying to find some one to play with.

The GWX mod will also make parts of the game easyer, though in trade it will make the rest of the game harder. On balance I think it is well worth it.

[irish1958]

I'm playing stock SH3 with SH3 Commander. I am new fairly new to the game and I have never been in anything other than a II. My last patrol, in August 1940, asked me to relocate from Wilhelmshaven to Brest. This presented a real challenge - do I go through the Channel, which I suspect is very dangerous, or try and go round the British Isles, which is an awfully long way on limited fuel!

In the end I decided to go to Brest the long way round and I had a hugely enjoyable patrol, sinking 8,000 tons along the way, and surviving air and escort attacks undamaged. But I had to go ahead slow almost the whole way, and travel submerged as much as possible. It took me almost a whole month, and at times it was incredibly nerve wracking, but I made it into Brest on the smell of an oil rag and I felt a great sense of achievement to see the band playing a welcome on the quayside! I am a little disappointed if this is an unhistorical experience....but it was certainly fun!
Good thing you didn't do that in real life as you would never get rid of the smell.:wah::cry::damn:

[BrewerAlpha]

Wooo! Ok, this is a bit off-topic but I feel compelled to share.

I started a new career with the VIIB after I had to reinstall SH3. I actually felt a bit spoiled by the big fast ship, honestly. The thing is a Cadillac compared to the bicycle (Type IIA) I had been riding.

Anyway, with my new found powerful ship, I decided to take her upto Scapa Flow. I had my first encounter with air patrols, and had to make a few crash dives along the way. One of them dropped a torpedo on me. Keep in mind that most of my time this point had been harassing unarmed cargo ships with the Type IIA, so actually hearing an explosion pointed at my direction was a bit... disconcerting.

So I'm getting closer to Scapa Flow and imagining just pillaging all the docked ships there when suddenly my sonarman picks up not one, but three destroyer contacts. The first one is close, very close. I'm at about 18 meters, so I pop up the 'scope to see if I can see the keel from underwater. Oh, it's headed right for me.

Keep in mind that most of my encounters have been with cargo ships so I think "Cool, the dopey boat is going to pass right over me" when suddenly I remember - oh depth charges.

So I began a cat and mouse game with the destroyer, he trying to depth charge me, me trying to sneak away and then line up a torpedo shot. Unfortunately, my hunting skills are still lame and I've never attacked anything as fast as the destroyer, and I missed three times as it quickly evaded my torps.

Unfortunately, the destroyer is a little better with the depth charges as my boat is taking more and more damage. I go deep and silent and it starts circling around trying to find me. Finally, when he's lined up across in front of me, I blow ballast. With my bow lined up at it's mid-section, I fire a torp, and the destroyer is blown straight to the bottom of the ocean.

What a fight and what a rush! :rock:

[KL-alfman]

great hunt, breweralpha! :yeah:

for Scapa Flow:
being a pretty new commander, I haven't tried this harbour-raid yet. but as I was reading in many posts, the best way should be sneaking in through the east channel (and getting out through the west one).
and don't forget to run silent at two knots!
unless you decide to get into surfaced .....
(can't imagine that works in GWX3, although Prien did exactly that approach)

[Iranon]

Going from personal experience I'd say the type II is harder to detect than bigger boats and better at getting out of sticky situations without a fight.

With a type VII I need deep water to feel confident about sneaking away without a fight... with a type IX I spend far too much time and torpedos fighting destroyers because that's safer than trying to slip away. Early on that is... later in the war it gets ugly either way.

Record-breaking careers are difficult in a type II... but if I just want to survive a DiD campaign without blatant dereliction of duty, the 'Einbaum' is quite useful and it has the underdog charm...

[cawimmer430]

I kind of like the Type IIA. Yes, the five torpedoes on board are a severe annoyance but this U-Boot rocks for those sneaky harbor raids when there is a hefty battleship or carrier stationed there. Getting in and out of those shallow waters with a Type IIA is a piece of cake - literally. :yeah:

[Damo]

Well, I've finally handed back my IIA, unfortunately a bit lighter than when I got it. I was patrolling AN46 and detected 3 warship contacts on the hydrophones quite close. Thought I'd go have a looksie and saw 3 destroyers, 2 tribal class, 1 C&D class all heading NNE. Against my better judgement I lined up a shot on the lead and second in line from 3000m whilst riding on the surface, it was about 11pm with a reasonable moon. I managed to hit the first one but had messed up the timings so the second so it missed by mere feet when the second destroyer began changing course.

They all turned my direction so I turned tail and started running. It was then that a fourth contact turned up, another destroyer, heading my way. In my panic, and in hindsight a mistake, I dived to 30m, leaving 10m below but I'd left the engines cranked on flank so of course, they immediately heard me and came steaming in. I should have stayed on the surface as they had not seen me up until that point. 2 hours of evading followed before I managed to reach the deeper water in the NE and slip away.

Unfortunately, I'd taken on a lot of damage with hull integrity down to 46% (longer repair times, woot), so I made for Kiel with no periscopes, one destroyed electric motor and a fair few sore heads. I have a rule as part of my DiD that any boat that goes below 55% hull integrity gets decommissioned and melted down for doodlebugs, so alas, U-16 (I know, a IIB in RL), is no more, and my brief love affair with the underdog is over. After 7 patrols I managed 98,000GRT. Bit gutted I didn't make 100k but it's all down to my stupidity with those destroyers, I should have left them be.

I've now transferred to 2nd Flotilla and have left port in a new IXB, U-123 (as always, number picked randomly). Looking it up on uboat.net reveals it was 'one of the most famous U-Boats of WWII' ( http://www.uboat.net/boats/u123.htm ), so I'm hoping this to be a good omen for the future. It's March 1940 and I'm assigned to just west of the Gibraltar Strait so here's to making the most of the 'happy times'.

[Schroeder]

Going on electric engines doesn't conserve fuel. After you surface, your diesels will have to recharge the batteries. And by doing that they burn more diesel than if you had sailed on diesels alone (and while you are recharging your Type II it will only run on one propeller and thereby lose speed.).
Think about it. When going on diesels the engines turn fuel into movement (turning the propellers). When you go on battery power your diesels will have to transfer fuel into movement (running the diesels) and movement into electrical power when you recharge the battery (driving the generator). Later the electrical power has to be turned into movement again (running on electrical engines). Whenever you change one energy form into another you will always "loose" energy (actually energy can't be lost but you will turn it into unusable waist products like for example heat...).

So stay on your diesels whenever possible for maximum range.

[Randomizer]

As some try to rid themselves of a Type IIA, is there any way to get one for the Black Sea Flotilla in '43 instead of a Type IID? I tried editing the flotilla.cfg file but that didn't work.

Thanks in advance.

[RoaldLarsen]

Going on electric engines doesn't conserve fuel. After you surface, your diesels will have to recharge the batteries. And by doing that they burn more diesel than if you had sailed on diesels alone (and while you are recharging your Type II it will only run on one propeller and thereby lose speed.).
Think about it. When going on diesels the engines turn fuel into movement (turning the propellers). When you go on battery power your diesels will have to transfer fuel into movement (running the diesels) and movement into electrical power when you recharge the battery (driving the generator). Later the electrical power has to be turned into movement again (running on electrical engines). Whenever you change one energy form into another you will always "loose" energy (actually energy can't be lost but you will turn it into unusable waist products like for example heat...).

So stay on your diesels whenever possible for maximum range.
Yes that is the way it should work. However, it seems that in stock SH3 you have more range if you travel submerged and then surface to recharge than you will if you stay surfaced. This may be related to recharge times being too short.

[Wilcke]

Eventually you can always go back to the Type II, in fact its interesting to patrol the Black Sea. Six of this type were dissassemble and trucked over reassembled and plopped into the Sea.

"The submarines had been carried 2,000 miles overland from Germany to attack Russian shipping during the Second World War, but were scuttled as the war neared its end. Now, more than 60 years on, explorers have located the flotilla of three submarines off the coast of Turkey."

"The vessels, including one once commanded by Germany's most successful U-boat ace, formed part of the 30th Flotilla of six submarines, taken by road and river across Nazi-occupied Europe, from Germany's Baltic port at Kiel to Constanta, the Romanian Black Sea port.
In two years, the fleet sank dozens of ships and lost three of their number to enemy action. But in August 1944, Romania switched sides and declared war on Germany, leaving the three remaining vessels stranded."

"With no base and unable to sail home - the Bosporus and Dardanelles were closed to them because of Turkish neutrality - their captains were ordered to scuttle the boats before rowing ashore and trying to make their way back to Germany. However, all three crews were caught and interned by the Turks."

One of their favorite tactics was to sit the Type II on the bottom and wait for something to come by that was sinkable.

Just some fodder to fuel a campaign in the Black Sea for you.

Happy Hunting!

[cawimmer430]

I've now transferred to 2nd Flotilla and have left port in a new IXB, U-123 (as always, number picked randomly).

In my current career I have an IXC also named U-123. :salute:

[vedrand]

Do yourself a favor and try GWX :88)

[BrewerAlpha]

I'm installing GWX now but I'm apprehensive about it. :-?

[Weiss Pinguin]

The only bad thing about GWX is the ungodly long loading times, but that's only if you've got an older rig like mine. :hmmm:

[Sailor Steve]

No need to be. In the long run it will make you play more like a real u-boat commander. Yes, it's a little tougher, but it looks so much better than stock and there are lots of new things to enjoy. Wait until you meet your first blimp!

I also recommend SH3 Commander, as it adds as much to the mental side of the game as GWX does to the physical. And it's not really a mod, so it can be used with any of them.

[BrewerAlpha]

Yeah, I've been using SH3 commander because I wanted to modify the time compression settings.

Just started my first patrol with GWX. It's a bit overwhelming, since almost everything is changed. It's almost like a new game. It's weird because there are a TON of ships docked in Kiel.

[mookiemookie]

Yeah, I've been using SH3 commander because I wanted to modify the time compression settings.

Just started my first patrol with GWX. It's a bit overwhelming, since almost everything is changed. It's almost like a new game. It's weird because there are a TON of ships docked in Kiel.

I remember that feeling too! All in all, I think you'll be happy.

[sharkbit]

I'm installing GWX now but I'm apprehensive about it. :-?

Don't worry, be happy!
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHFDa9efCQU

[Task Force]

Hmm... I really like the IIA. nice little boat...:yep: