US Dollar Heading For Toilet

[Snestorm]

This is not looking good for USA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPY7S6ipvRo

Being payed in toilet paper for a day's work is not going to bode well at the supermarket.

[Castout]

Well if that's so I hope it's heading for my toilet :har:

[Snestorm]

What that means is that USA's working people are going to see a huge drop in their buying power.

The price of goods will continue to rise substantialy, while the paychecks will remain about the same.

This will also have an impact on the Europe's economies, as USA's "consumerism" drops so will Europe's exports. Europe will feel the sting in manufacturing, transportation, and tourism. It will cost jobs, and it will affect wages substantialy.

On a personal level, as a trucker, North Alabama, USA, is looking better than Nordsjælland, DK.
(I can work out of either, without complication).

My uncle always said that when USA sneazes, we catch a cold.

[goldorak]

What that means is that USA's working people are going to see a huge drop in their buying power.

The price of goods will continue to rise substantialy, while the paychecks will remain about the same.

This will also have an impact on the Europe's economies, as USA's "consumerism" drops so will Europe's exports. Europe will feel the sting in manufacturing, transportation, and tourism. It will cost jobs, and it will affect wages substantialy.

On a personal level, as a trucker, North Alabama, USA, is looking better than Nordsjælland, DK.
(I can work out of either, without complication).

My uncle always said that when USA sneazes, we catch a cold.

You know sometimes I think that a consumerist society is just as doomed as communism was. We just haven't touched the bottom yet. :shifty:

[SteamWake]

Capatilisim would work as intended if they would just let it work as intended. But the current trend is not just to move away from capatilisim but to run from it as fast as they can.

Falling dollar value coupled with balooning deficit and taxes are a recipie for disastor.

[Skybird]

It's an unhealthy dysbalance for sure.

I also think that economies depending so massively on exports like the german one, indeed are not strong but weak, vulnerable economies.

An economy should produce with a focus on the local, regional demand. What cannpot be produced by oneself, is traded from others. I think trade should be limited to this simple philosophy. It may not make the few people incredibly rich, but it would adress a whole lot of problems affecting all, for lowering traffic emissions over insane banking philosophies and the need to manage ressources so that they last as long as possible insteasd of wasting them as quick as possible, to a fairer distribution of vital goods people need for a living, and battling slave work and the ruthless exploitation of the weak.

But since we all know that the wealth interests of the few are so much more important, and that their wealth gives them power, we can trust in that such changes like outlined above will not happen. at least not peacefully, and without civil wars and blood-dripping revolutions. If you have the power, you must not accept without resisting that your power gets questioned and your legitimation gets put into doubt. And the greater the greed, the smaller the sense for fairness, justice and responsibility.

Still a nice vision to dream. Nobody has forced us to sell it away so carelessly. The ability to overcome many of our genetic programs we do have - if only we would have the will. And some , mostly smaller examples from historic (and smaller) societies shows that it is possible. What hinders us to learn from these examples? Bad habit, and too huge a population.

[Snestorm]

You know sometimes I think that a consumerist society is just as doomed as communism was. We just haven't touched the bottom yet. :shifty:

No, we haven't made it to the bottom yet but, we're figuratively driving down Wolf Creek Pass in Mexican Overdrive. (Desending a long, curving, and steep grade in neutral. A very unwise, and suicidal thing to do).

The question is, will we crash or find a "Runaway Truck Ramp".

[AVGWarhawk]

The weak dollar is what has China concerned. :03:

[goldorak]

It's an unhealthy dysbalance for sure.

I also think that economies depending so massively on exports like the german one, indeed are not strong but weak, vulnerable economies.

An economy should produce with a focus on the local, regional demand. What cannpot be produced by oneself, is traded from others. I think trade should be limited to this simple philosophy. It may not make the few people incredibly rich, but it would adress a whole lot of problems affecting all, for lowering traffic emissions over insane banking philosophies and the need to manage ressources so that they last as long as possible insteasd of wasting them as quick as possible, to a fairer distribution of vital goods people need for a living, and battling slave work and the ruthless exploitation of the weak.

But since we all know that the wealth interests of the few are so much more important, and that their wealth gives them power, we can trust in that such changes like outlined above will not happen. at least not peacefully, and without civil wars and blood-dripping revolutions. If you have the power, you must not accept without resisting that your power gets questioned and your legitimation gets put into doubt. And the greater the greed, the smaller the sense for fairness, justice and responsibility.

Still a nice vision to dream. Nobody has forced us to sell it away so carelessly. The ability to overcome many of our genetic programs we do have - if only we would have the will. And some , mostly smaller examples from historic (and smaller) societies shows that it is possible. What hinders us to learn from these examples? Bad habit, and too huge a population.

You are 100% correct. We are in an unstable situation that will continue as far as our industries can use cheap labor. But what happens when those third world countries achieve a standard of living equivalent to the west ? Where will we offshore our industries ? At that moment the system will collapse. It just can't go on forever.
We have to boost the local economies, instead of offshoring everything to places where the cost of production is almost zero and then sell those finished gizmoes fro gigantic profits in our countries. Societies cannot thrive only on greed.
Its funny, I was just watching after 20 years Carl Sagan's Cosmos and in one of the episodes he mentions how the newly formed Dutch Republic in the late sixteenth century realised that to prosper you had to have a successfull economy so profits were good. But you couldn't base your entire society only on profits. Their leaders it seems were much more far sighted than our idiot politicians. Stupid politicians that haven't learned a thing from history.

[goldorak]

Capatilisim would work as intended if they would just let it work as intended. But the current trend is not just to move away from capatilisim but to run from it as fast as they can.

Falling dollar value coupled with balooning deficit and taxes are a recipie for disastor.

Capitalism cannot work as intended as far as you have multinational corporations. These are the actors that are deforming what capitalism is all about. No enemy of the free market is greater than a corporation.
Its just a basic truth that you don't see expressed often in the media.

[Snestorm]

It's an unhealthy dysbalance for sure.

I also think that economies depending so massively on exports like the german one, indeed are not strong but weak, vulnerable economies.

An economy should produce with a focus on the local, regional demand. What cannpot be produced by oneself, is traded from others. I think trade should be limited to this simple philosophy. It may not make the few people incredibly rich, but it would adress a whole lot of problems affecting all, for lowering traffic emissions over insane banking philosophies and the need to manage ressources so that they last as long as possible insteasd of wasting them as quick as possible, to a fairer distribution of vital goods people need for a living, and battling slave work and the ruthless exploitation of the weak.

But since we all know that the wealth interests of the few are so much more important, and that their wealth gives them power, we can trust in that such changes like outlined above will not happen. at least not peacefully, and without civil wars and blood-dripping revolutions. If you have the power, you must not accept without resisting that your power gets questioned and your legitimation gets put into doubt. And the greater the greed, the smaller the sense for fairness, justice and responsibility.

Still a nice vision to dream. Nobody has forced us to sell it away so carelessly. The ability to overcome many of our genetic programs we do have - if only we would have the will. And some , mostly smaller examples from historic (and smaller) societies shows that it is possible. What hinders us to learn from these examples? Bad habit, and too huge a population.

You gave me no choice but to quote the whole thing, as it all rings so true and fits together so perfectly.

Capitalism is, to my thinking, the best possible system.
The problem is, as illustrated above, that Capitalism is being replaced by Super-Capitalism, which is only the other side of the SAME coin as Super-Communism. Both systems leave a handful of elite at the top to control the masses at the bottom.

It is essential for local and national governments to regulate the corporations, not the other way around, as we see happenning more and more.

[AVGWarhawk]

You are 100% correct. We are in an unstable situation that will continue as far as our industries can use cheap labor. But what happens when those third world countries achieve a standard of living equivalent to the west ? Where will we offshore our industries ? At that moment the system will collapse. It just can't go on forever.
We have to boost the local economies, instead of offshoring everything to places where the cost of production is almost zero and then sell those finished gizmoes fro gigantic profits in our countries. Societies cannot thrive only on greed.
Its funny, I was just watching after 20 years Carl Sagan's Cosmos and in one of the episodes he mentions how the newly formed Dutch Republic in the late sixteenth century realised that to prosper you had to have a successfull economy so profits were good. But you couldn't base your entire society only on profits. Their leaders it seems were much more far sighted than our idiot politicians. Stupid politicians that haven't learned a thing from history.

All true but the problem is...we are in it and how do you stop it? Some of these countries that are becoming industrialized as a result are currently protesting at the Copehagan climate meeting. They want their cake and want to eat it too. They do not want restrictions on emissions. So, can we pull the lollipop from the baby? No sir. During the election between Obama and McCain there was chatter of isolationism. The world shook their fists! The problem and answer causes ripples that no one likes.

[Snestorm]

Their leaders it seems were much more far sighted than our idiot politicians. Stupid politicians that haven't learned a thing from history.

I am in agreement with your entire post, but would like to comment on this magnificent closing.

Perhaps the frightening thing we must all come to grips with, is that they did learn, and they used this knowledge to fulfill their own greed, by exploiting their own people (us).

[goldorak]

All true but the problem is...we are in it and how do you stop it? Some of these countries that are becoming industrialized as a result are currently protesting at the Copehagan climate meeting. They want their cake and want to eat it too. They do not want restrictions on emissions. So, can we pull the lollipop from the baby? No sir. During the election between Obama and McCain there was chatter of isolationism. The world shook their fists! The problem and answer causes ripples that no one likes.


Frankly I don't have the answer. What I do know is that a large part of this mess is due to western countries. The whole globalization process starting in the late eighties, early ninties was pushed by the west. So as to give corportations the ability to increase their profits. And our societies be damned. There is always a price to pay AVGWarhawk, and if we have the fortune on not paying it now our children and their children we have to bear this cost. What this cost will be I cannot say. War ? Collapse of our democratic societies ? A new world order ? Who knows.
I just hope I will not be alive to witness the downfall.

[Skybird]

You are 100% correct. We are in an unstable situation that will continue as far as our industries can use cheap labor. But what happens when those third world countries achieve a standard of living equivalent to the west ? Where will we offshore our industries ? At that moment the system will collapse.

It's not so much the wealth distribution and labour system collapsing, but the ecologic system. All the world, all those to be expected 9 billion people sharing the same consummerism as we do in the West - that is a fantasy only. In reality it means the death of our global civilisation, over a collapsing ecosystem.

Eventually it could even start much earlier - when oil has become so expensive that nobody can pay for it anymore. That would bring EVERYTHING international to a standstill.


Capitalism is, to my thinking, the best possible system.
The problem is, as illustrated above, that Capitalism is being replaced by Super-Capitalism, which is only the other side of the SAME coin as Super-Communism. Both systems leave a handful of elite at the top to control the masses at the bottom.

It is essential for local and national governments to regulate the corporations, not the other way around, as we see happenning more and more

Capitalism, as well as democracy, probably can work as planned in small sized communities where every member is fully overlooking the whole community and cannot avoid to realise that all are effected by evertyhing that happens to the few. Also it seems to be needed that the few are not allowed to escape negative consequences of selfish decisions of theirs, else there is no reason why they should not make these decisions if the profit is theirs and the cosrts are to be payed or suffered by the others. There needs to be a sense of social responsibility that can necessarily only result from mutual social relations. and thta is only possible in small communities.

In fact over the months of this year I learned to understand community size to be a key factor of utmost importance for any attempts to adress vital problems and threats we are faced with. Birth control is and population size would be inevitable ingredients of any strategy to improve man's fate in economy, ecology, and social community. That's why I see the value of democracy in no way as self-showing as the general opinion uncritically states today, and the same is true for capitalism. Becasue:

We are too many people on the world.

And as long as this is so, I am pessimistic about the future of man's global civilisation. Biologically, we will survive, a world war as well as global warming or an ice age. But for our civilisation I see a black future ahead.

[Snestorm]

Capitalism cannot work as intended as far as you have multinational corporations. These are the actors that are deforming what capitalism is all about. No enemy of the free market is greater than a corporation.
Its just a basic truth that you don't see expressed often in the media.

Your one paragraph speaks volumes of truth.

It always irks me to read "US Corporations", because they aren't US Corporations at all. They are International Corporations with no loyalty to anything but money, control, and power. They exploit USA as much as any other land, if not more so.

They need to be brought back under the control of their respective nations.

[AVGWarhawk]

Frankly I don't have the answer. What I do know is that a large part of this mess is due to western countries. The whole globalization process starting in the late eighties, early ninties was pushed by the west. So as to give corportations the ability to increase their profits. And our societies be damned. There is always a price to pay AVGWarhawk, and if we have the fortune on not paying it now our children and their children we have to bear this cost. What this cost will be I cannot say. War ? Collapse of our democratic societies ? A new world order ? Who knows.
I just hope I will not be alive to witness the downfall.

There really is no answer with exception of each respective nation taking control as Snestorm suggested. But again, it is the lollipop in the baby's mouth. The baby has it a long time and you know the crying will commence when the lollipop is pulled. Perhaps a true global economy needs to be just that...global. Same currency through out. What has the Euro done for Europe if anything at all? I'm interested.

[AVGWarhawk]

We are too many people on the world.


Certainly, in some parts of the world. To me, overpopulation will be our demise. The earth can warm all she likes. But that is a whole other thread as we know. :03:

[Fish]

The day the dollar fell:

http://www.qbn.com/topics/543852/

[mookiemookie]

I read this in one of the research reports I get here at work. Kinda dense, but it's hard to fault the logic:

The idea that a surge in the supply of dollars inevitably means a sharp fall in their value is intuitively appealing. However, this assumes that the increase in supply is widespread and that it is not offset by an increase in demand. Neither can be taken for granted. The Fed’s actions have led to an explosion in the monetary base, that is cash in circulation plus commercial banks’ reserves held at the Fed. But the broad money and credit aggregates have stagnated – in essence, the additional liquidity has been held within the banking system. This was also the experience in Japan during the operation of quantitative easing (QE) between 2001 and 2006. The yen initially weakened, helped by direct intervention by the BoJ, but over the period as a whole it is hard to see any discernible impact from QE.

...

Of course, this could all change if the Fed kept its ultra-loose monetary policy in place for too long. This presumably is the mistake that dollar bears and gold bulls fear. But the Fed does have the tools (reverse repos and paying interest on reserves) to withdraw this stimulus quickly if necessary, even though we do not expect this to happen anytime soon. The bigger picture is that, with so much spare capacity left by the recession, the risks of runaway inflation and a dollar collapse are still very low.

[Schroeder]

Don't forget that inflations can be used to get rid of debts. This is especially interesting since the entire western world is making debts left and right which it can never pay back (at least I haven't seen our debts being reduced by just one lousy Euro in all my life).
A nasty inflation would mean that all the debts can be paid back since the amount of money isn't worth anything anymore but at the price of all citizens loosing their money as well (or at least the value of their money). Maybe this would be the only way to "reset" the system and since I don't really see any attempts by our politicians to get rid of our debts in any other way this scenario becomes more and more likely the more debts we make and the more unlikely it becomes that we will ever be able to pay them back.

[nikimcbee]

I thought this story was going to be about the 30 million dollars (stimulus) for a handful or Oregon highway rest stops, to make them carbon neutral.:har::har::har::har::shifty:

Nevermind the fact, there's no money for police or jails, but we got lotsa money for eco-toilets.:shifty::nope:

[Snestorm]

Just imagine walking into a supermarket with a shopping-cart full of money, and walking out with a loaf of bread. That's the problem with devalued money.

[FIREWALL]

I converted all my dollars into CASHews. :p2: