Need help with TMO 1.7!!!!!!

[magicdragon_88]

Well i have decided to start up an american campaign again after playing uboat missions for a long time, and found something REALLY annoying with TMO 1.7....

Every time i spot a convoy on my radar- i track it, get ahead of it, get into position, submerge, and wait for them to come to me...without TMO i have no problem of being undetected and getting one or two kills- but with TMO 1.7 i get spotted by destroyers ALL the time! doesn't matter if my scope is down, if im facing the destroyer( to have a smaller sonar signature), and with the engine STOPPED..oh and also i even tried going like 60m deep to avoid the first escort(i heared about ppl using this tactic, but i dont know the right time to surface RIGHT after the lead escort passes me-i try not to use the external camera), but still he pings me..it seems as though whatever i do- i still get detected...btw im attacking the convoy during day time, light fog, and calm seas(o wind)...

What am i missing here? i know im doing something wrong..any tips of how to stay undetected? these destroyers are friggin 10 times smarter than in the stock 1.5..someone please! i got so annoyed with my inability to stay undetected i have to disable the mod for now..:wah:

[SteveUK]

I'm afraid that is what TMO is :D. If you read the thread and the documentation thats is supplied in the download Ducimus has put it all in there.

The escorts are hell of a lot smarter then stock true, but wait till you meet the planes if you think the escorts are bad!

The days of fooling the enemy and staying safe are long gone with TMO and they make the game a hell of a lot more challenging. Waether conditions and the type of ships in a convoy matter.

TMO is an excellent mod, a lot of hard work has gone into it and its worth perservering with believe me.

[Laconic]

-Night and bad weather are your friends. The darker and choppier the water, the easier it is to not be seen/heard.

-Depth is your friend. You should think long and hard about attacking an escorted convoy in waters shallower than 350 feet (100m) or so. Attacking an escorted convoy in waters 50-100 ft (15-30m) is just begging to get sunk.

-Thermal layers are your friends. Once you're beneath a thermal layer an escort's sensors become much less effective.

-Noise is NOT your friend. Run silent, deactivate the repair crew, and don't go any faster than 2kn...and that only if you have to.

-Periscopes above water are NOT your friend. They can be spotted, especially if you're moving. Don't have a scope above water unless you have to.

-Showing your boat's wide side to an escort is NOT your friend. The more surface area you're presenting to an escort, the easier you are to ping. Try to keep either your nose or your tail pointed at escorts.

For convoys, I try to get so far ahead of them that my sonar man can't even pick them up (if he can't hear them, chances are they can't hear you). I'll position between where two columns will be when the reach me, stop the boat, rig for silent running, and dive to about 350-400 ft (100-120m). I'll get the sonar man to track the nearest warship (this is nearly always the lead escort). Once it passes, come up to periscope depth, make your attack quickly, set a course back the direction the convoy came from (the more merchant engine noise over your head, the better), dive back down to 350-400 ft, and sneak off at about 1 kn.

[Webster]

and by the way, TMO v1.9 is out so thats the one you should use if you want to use TMO :up:

TMO is best used by experienced players or it can frustrate the heck out of you :damn:

as a stepping stone to TMO you might want to try RFB, its hard too but not as insanely hard as TMO feels.

when you are not that good at evasion TMO can be too brutal so by starting with RFB you can learn your evasion tactics there and then once you get good at evasion then you can jump back into TMO

[MK2]

Use TMO 1.9 as stated above (just so you have the latest).

It took me about 10 patrols to get the hang of it but now I am more patient , shadow convoys a lot longer before setting up a shot and generally have sunk ships and lived to tell about it.

It just took some work.

[magicdragon_88]

wow. thank you for such informative and quick replies folks...yea i guess it does make more sense to attack in bad weather and at night, and it IS more realistic- i just didn't think this mod accounted for that( hence my question y im being detected during the day in not-so-bad weather with TMO 1.7) Before using the mod i thought its perfectly fine to sit at periscope depth 500m away from destroyer and still manage an attack- but it does sound kinda foolish and unreal.

Will try to shadow the convoys longer now and sit at 375 feet waiting for the destroyer to pass by..i guess it will take some practice- but im willing to try!

Atleast now i appreciate the "reality" of this game, and i hope it will be more rewarding to sink those Japanese merchants..

Once again ; thnx guys! will report back with great success stories, and hopefully get promoted from "Bilge Rat" :salute:

[magic452]

Some very good advice in the above post. Patients and planing pay off.
Attack only when the conditions are in your favor, night, bad weather, etc.

The only thing I have found that works most often is shooting from long range, take your best shot and get the heck out o' Dodge.

Learn one of the constant bearing methods of attack. Vector analysis is my favorite, shoot from 3,000 yd. or so and leave. Do a run around and do it again or as Rockin' Robins says rinse and repeat.

Load up TMO 1.9 if you are going to stick with TMO, as I understand it Ducimus has toned down the escorts a little so approaching convoys is a little eraser but once detected harder to get away. See post 3 in this thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158017

TMO is tough, it tasks experience and skill to succeed.
You Will get sunk many times trying to learn but stick with it 'cause it's worth it.

Magic

[sergei]

The only thing I have found that works most often is shooting from long range, take your best shot and get the heck out o' Dodge.

I'm doing this with heavily escorted convoys and it's keeping me alive. A nice spread of 4 or 6 torps, at 2 overlapping targets if you get the chance.
At 3000 yards range you have a good few minutes to get away from your firing spot, which is where the escorts are going to vector in on. You really want to get away from that circle of death before the escorts get there, else life gets very interesting!

Stick with it Magicdragon. There really is no better game than SH4 with TMO. It's just frustrating as hell to begin with :)

[SteveUK]

Have to agree with magic452 and sergei the only way to approach things at the start is long range shots till you get the hang of it.

Also as they say - Run silent, Run Deep :D

Keep at it it's well worth it.

[magicdragon_88]

sounds good! will give TMO 1.9 a try- but only question is; where can i find it on this site? i have looked in the downloads section but cannot find it under mega mods...ooops never mind found it...thnx for all the help!

[SteveUK]

Go to the SH4 mods workshop and click on the Trigger Maru Overhauled 1.9 thread download link is at the start.

[Captain Dave]

I've been playing for almost 2 years now with TMO and RSRD. With TMO 1.9 my butt is geting kicked. My old tactics aren't working so good. :hmmm: This is one heck of a version Ducimus has come up with. :up:

[LUKNER]

Lord submariners! Need qualified help! Since patch 1.4 do not correspond to the values in the sim with the game displayed in open-range underwater move! How to fix the problem?

[MK2]

Lord submariners! Need qualified help! Since patch 1.4 do not correspond to the values in the sim with the game displayed in open-range underwater move! How to fix the problem?


I would start a different thread, ight get the question answered quicker.

[magic452]

I am not to sure what your problem is.
Can you give more details.

It seems like you are playing SH4 v1.4 but what is not displaying right?
And what is wrong with the display?

Give as much information as you can. We will be glad to help.

Welcome aboard mate. :up:

Magic

[magicdragon_88]

ok so im on my way to patrol the grid "abuse" for 4 days, everything fine- no radar signals detected( coz during the way i stay like 300ft underwater cruising at 1/3) and outa the blue- i see a warship come straight at me..and there it begins...the greatness of TMO 1.9 :D..must of been 4 hours i have been evading him with 100% realism until night time- when my men started to suffocate...i had no choice but to surface...luckily for me- the destroyer turned off his engine and just waited for me to pop up...so i did...after seeing him through my binoculars at roughly 4000m, to my amazement i managed to get some fresh air and dive deep without being detected...

so i decided to get the heck out of there. that warship was giving me real bad vibes...about 3 hours later i visit my sonar man and see whats up...that's when things started to go south..apparently he called up one of his buddies and then the fun ended for me...within 30 mins i was at the bottom of the ocean..

i gotta say this; although i did get depth charged and wound up at the bottom, the excitement of evading just one ship is awesome...this difficulty truly brings the game to life...:smug:

[LUKNER]

I am not to sure what your problem is.
Can you give more details.

It seems like you are playing SH4 v1.4 but what is not displaying right?
And what is wrong with the display?

Give as much information as you can. We will be glad to help.

Welcome aboard mate. :up:

Magic

The problem is the following: Exhibiting values sim (range of diving at a certain speed) does not correspond to the game, this observation includes all the known modes based on the 1.05.0000 version of the game including TMO
After lots of tests is established that, as you would not want to change the range of diving in the sim, it remains virtually unchanged to 50 miles at 3 knots! Resolve this discrepancy!</span>

[magic452]

Lukner Where are you getting the 50 miles at 3 knots from? Is that the range you get in the game or some place else and what other value are you comparing it to?

Submerged range at 3 knots for a Gato should be about 65 miles in the game, with full batteries and running them down to near 1%

With a Porpoise at 3 knots should get 60+ miles.

Magic

[LUKNER]

sim-card should give those values that you put in it! For the Pacific 1941-1945, the company is relatively fit, but if you make a mod modern diesel submarines will not be able to increase the cruising range! Here the problem to be solved!</span>

[magic452]

I don't think I can help you. What you want to do is not something I an familiar with.

Post a thread in the Fleet Boats Mods Workshop and explain exactly what you have and want you want to do. Give as much information as you can so they will know what your problem is!


Magic

[LUKNER]

I don't think I can help you. What you want to do is not something I an familiar with.

Post a thread in the Fleet Boats Mods Workshop and explain exactly what you have and want you want to do. Give as much information as you can so they will know what your problem is!


Magic
Извините, но мне кажется меня просто не понимают! Проблемы с переводчиком, увы. Поэтому решил еще раз обьяснить на родном языке; может у вас получится более точный перевод!
Меня интересует, возможно ли решить проблему с sim, так как в ней отражаемые значения подводного хода не соответствуют в игре! Пример: лодка тип S - дальность плавания должна составлять 100 миль при скорости 5 узлов! В игре дальность у всех лодок составляет ~ 50 миль на 3 уз! Как мне кажется данная проблема появилась после патча 1.4 когда разработчики игры убрали ошибку ( аккумуляторная батарея заряжалась даже при отсутствии дизельного топлива )
Вторая проблема , которую хотелось бы решить, это создание гидролокатора. На конечном этапе войны данный прибор приобрел на флоте широкое распространение, и стал ключевым фактором при прорыве американских подводных лодок в Японское море в июле 1945 года ( Операция '' Барни '' ) Возможно ли создать что то подобное на базе SH4?