Interesting BBC article

[XabbaRus]

Found this on the BBC news site

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8382384.stm

Very interesting and the last sentence seems quite apt.

I do feel of all the US presidents I have experienced as a Brit that Obama of all of them gives the least s*** about the UK's opinion. Quite frankly Obama seems a bit of a wet blanket after all the hype. Kind of like movies nowadays. The trailer looks great, the film a waste of time and money.

I'm not under any illusions that the UK really had that much influence on US government policy ever, but in terms of military cooperation we offered a lot, if not on a material level then on an expertise and intelligence level.

[Platapus]

Our relationship with the UK will remain strong.

As long as the UK does exactly what we tell it to do and only offer an opinion when we tell them what their opinion is, we will get a long great and we will even openly call them an ally if they like. :D

Two rather good quotes in that article

You can be the closest American ally, yet at the commercial negotiating table you are an adversary


Britain has declined from being the master, to being a rival, to being a partner and now to being perhaps simply useful

A bit harshly worded, but can the United States refute these comments?

The question is: Do we need to reevaluate our relationship with the UK.....or have we already done so?

The trailer looks great, the film a waste of time and money.

I think there may be a lot of people who feel this way about President Obama. Great trailer/coming attractions but the feature might not live up to the hype. :nope:

[XabbaRus]

I think Obama has reevaluated the relationship, just we are too stupid to see that.

Although Bush Jr. was not my cup of tea I do think HE was personally sincere when he mentioned the special relationship between the US and the UK, and even if just on the surface did show respect to the UK.

I think the way Obama received Gordon Brown and family with the rubbish presents compared to what GB got his family.

Anyway the UK is in an identity crisis at the moment with a risk of being left behind by the EU and the US.

Maybe we should just forge ahead a third way with Russia and China ;)

Half the Russian billionaires own, ooops meant live in London anyway.

[Jimbuna]

I doubt I'll ever see a relationship as strong as that of Roosevelt and Churchill in my lifetime.

The days of the Empire are over and Britain is nowhere near as significant on the world stage today.

I should imagine the ties between both the US and the UK will remain strong but in truth Britain is little more than a fashion accessory to the Obama administration.

[Oberon]

Gotta admit, I'm no Bush fan but when he spoke during 7/7 to the BBC, I was kinda touched, perhaps it was the stress of the day, having relatives in London, but he seemed the most sincere...heck, even more than our own leaders of the time.

Obama...well, like Xabba says, the movie never lives up to its hype, and I think the honeymoon is over and all but the most Democratic democrats are realising that, but I'm not ruling him out until the end of his term, and then we'll see what was what.

As for the 'special relationship' I think after the passing of Roosevelt, the relationship began to fade, it took several hits in the Cold War, most notably in the nuclear weapons department and really since the end of the Cold War there has not been a use for Britain for America. We are no longer needed as a strategic air facility against the Soviets, the trade is minimal, our voice in the EU is tiny and usually just says 'yes', not that America really has any use for the EU and with the British withdrawal from Iraq and disagreements in Afghanistan, we're not really working together that well militarily.

There will come a time again, I'm sure, when the US will need to join forces with Europe to whack someone, and then we'll be useful again. Until then...we'll just wait in the corner over here... :hmmm:

[jumpy]

Hah!

...everybody's friends until the chips are really down and there's a conflict of national interest or opinion... see how matey everyone is then :woot:

[Skybird]

Bush rode many "allies" into a mess over Iraq, promising them rich returns for their contributions: the Poles, the Spanish, especially these two hoped for economical and strategic and prestige revenues when following Bush blindly, but instead had nothing but costly investements and no return. I cannot say much good about Aznar, and also not about Zapatero, but that Zapatero got out of Iraq soon probably was the most clever decision he has made. Whether it was by conviction or populism, is not that important - the effect is what counts.

When the war break out I said that you Brits just get used by your cousins and that you get sold by your stupid Blair government and that you have your heads too deep in wishful history as if you would want to see that. And many people laughed when I said that special relationship is not that special anymore. I assume you have stopped laughing meanwhile, the inquiry currently run is just a symptom for that. I don't want to sound like a smartass when saying "I told you so", but I cannot avoid to remind of that, because some of the fire I took in the hot word-wars 2003 and 2004 sometimes really has hurt on a personal level.

But it is not only Bush and Blair, but true with Obama as well, and this i also have said already a year ago: that these charming word offensives by him still would lead Europeans - and that includes the British - into exaggerated, hyped assumptions about how less American and how much global and pro-European this president would be. Boy, this man is a truly gifted speaker, isn't he, the most effective public speaker I have ever witnessed in my life: his words manipulate public mood for maximum effect. He moves a lot of air and makes it smell pleasant to everybody. On climate, economy, finances, stimulus package and foreign politics for the most I was sceptical, and have no reason to change that scepticism when seeing his first year in office. In Europe, even the most hesitent mind not wanting to give up enthusiasm over Obama should have realised that in the main and in the very first he is a president representing one interest before any others: America's. He does not only not deliver fulfilling of the many hopes in foreign and climate policies that he has raised before - he even shows a surprising lack of understanding in foreign policies especially in questions of the ME and Israel, that in it's ammount surprised even me.

Beyond the names of Bush and Obama one also has to realise that in the past 20 years there has simply been a long-termed strategic shift in focus from the European to the Pacific region. This shift has little to do with Bush or Obama or Britain or anything. It is about China, global ressources and energy. This region menahwuiole has become much more important for amwrica, than Europe is. Europe has to accept that it is not that hotspot of the world anymore, not from an Amerian point of view and not from viewpoint of global cultural influence as well. Add to this that in many parts of the world local nations and people turn away from european/Western cultural standards as guiding principles for values and rights, and start refocussing on their own local traditions and their own cultural heritage. That'S true in South America, namely Brazil, that is true in Asia, with especially the Japasnese in the long run needing to focus more on the Chinese than then Americans. It seems to me even Australia has started to refocussed from trying "to be British" to understanding that it's neighbours are not Britain and America, but Asien nations with which it must maintain good relations and work together in everyday life.

The times of europe telling others what to do and how, are over. And regarding the US and China, the times of the US lecturing China on civil rights and liberties are over as well. History has moved on already.

Live with it. The white man is not powerful enough anymore to play the dominant global role he used to play.

[XabbaRus]

I agree with what you are saying sky, especially about Obama being a very gifted public speaker. What has struck me about Obama though is his complete fuziness on everything. He talks the talk, but can he walk.

I must admit that when a fair few on this board were railing against him I thought they were being unfair, however now I can see where they are coming from.

Obama just seems to be trying to please his own desires whilst pissing everyone off but acheiving nothing, and he seems like he can't make a decision.

Please someone prove me wrong.

[Torplexed]

Obama just seems to be trying to please his own desires whilst pissing everyone off but acheiving nothing, and he seems like he can't make a decision.

Please someone prove me wrong.

Hey....he won a Nobel Peace Prize while still waging two wars. :D Style won over substance long ago I'm afraid. :nope:

http://pyxis.homestead.com/Wartime-Peace-Prize.jpg

[SteamWake]

Found this on the BBC news site

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8382384.stm

Very interesting and the last sentence seems quite apt.

I do feel of all the US presidents I have experienced as a Brit that Obama of all of them gives the least s*** about the UK's opinion. Quite frankly Obama seems a bit of a wet blanket after all the hype. Kind of like movies nowadays. The trailer looks great, the film a waste of time and money.

I'm not under any illusions that the UK really had that much influence on US government policy ever, but in terms of military cooperation we offered a lot, if not on a material level then on an expertise and intelligence level.


Yea.... that Roosevelt guy was such a let down.

[nikimcbee]

I think Obama has reevaluated the relationship, just we are too stupid to see that.

Although Bush Jr. was not my cup of tea I do think HE was personally sincere when he mentioned the special relationship between the US and the UK, and even if just on the surface did show respect to the UK.

I think the way Obama received Gordon Brown and family with the rubbish presents compared to what GB got his family.

Anyway the UK is in an identity crisis at the moment with a risk of being left behind by the EU and the US.

Maybe we should just forge ahead a third way with Russia and China ;)

Half the Russian billionaires own, ooops meant live in London anyway.

What, you didn't think the ipod with obama speeches was a good gift?:haha: It is interesting to hear your opinion of him. I think you are right though he's all hype, like a hollywood picture. Tons of marketing and merchandise, then you see it and say; "That was lame." Star Wars 1 or Pearl Harbo(u)r come to mind. I think beyond pushing for socialized medicine, he doesn't have a clue.:shifty: Oh well, we'll survive:yawn:


Obama just seems to be trying to please his own desires whilst pissing everyone off but acheiving nothing, and he seems like he can't make a decision.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20091121/i/r1624575763.jpg?x=311&y=345&q=85&sig=D0qSaYah4ni4SPPkxdUCNg--
Obama with GQ of himself.

I don't know which is funnier? Obama admiring himself , Clinton chasing the chicks, or Bush's speech patterns?

[magic452]

I don't think I would rate Obama as a great speaker, sure the words (probably not his) are good but the way he delivers them is not sincere or believable.

I watched his speech on the Fort Hood shootings and it seemed that he would rather be fishing.
Pretty words but no sincerity at all. It was the same tone he uses for everything, campaign speeches, etc.
I'm not saying that he didn't care, I'm sure he did. It's just that it didn't come through in the speech.

He is IMO a very good reader but not that good a speaker.
Without a script he's not that hot. He has pat answers for most questions
but when he has to ad-lib he's lost and for the most part clueless.

He most certainly doesn't compare with JFK or Regan and maybe not even with Clinton.
At least Clinton was believable at times, not often but at times.

Magic

[jumpy]

Yea.... that Roosevelt guy was such a let down.

Wow, I didn't know Xabba was that old!