Interior flooding added i think . [Archive]

JScones

11-27-09, 08:14 PM

Awesome. This great eye candy feature will distract me from the undoubtedly unrealistic repair times. :up:

:shifty:

WARNING: DAS BOOT FANBOIS READ NO FURTHER...RANT COMING...

Reading through that features thread demonstrates exactly where the dev's focus is this time. For instance...
What about surface ships firing torpedoes? In SH3 even torpedoes boats didn't attack another ships by torpedoes, only guns, guns, guns...

This is a nice feature and one we have in plan. However, it is regarded as less important than other features such as AI submarines - friendly and enemy.Nice feature but less important than others? What does that say considering what we know the devs have added? Interesting that they consider an effective enemy less important that this 3D fluff they're giving us.

Then there's this one, just to confirm it...
Can you tell me please if the damage interface of SH5 will be at least with the level of accuracy reached in SH3?

Even if the mechanics behind the damage management are at the same complexity, the interface is lighter and more focused on most important aspects. None the less, you won’t lose any information or degree of immersion compared to the old games. Additionally, we are implementing some more advanced flooding control mechanics which would be a blast for the player.In other words, we have no intention of improving the damage/repair functionality, but heck, we're gonna make it look prettier.:yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah:

Seems there's an abundance of 3D modellers on the books over in Romania to the detriment of simulation modellers.

I know it's way too early to speculate, but reading between the lines I don't think one needs to think too hard to see exactly what we are gonna get with SH5. Read: lipstick and pig. I really hope they leave it open to some serious modding so that we can get a game that won't be an embarrassment to call a simulation. :nope:

/rant

SteamWake

11-27-09, 08:45 PM

Wow JS your on a roll..

Good to see you around at any rate :salute:

JScones

11-27-09, 11:14 PM

Actually I think I'm being quite restrained. I read a preview earlier that was based on the demo and it had me somewhat concerned.

When a preview compares SH5 to Call Of Duty, one starts to worry.

THE_MASK

11-28-09, 01:40 AM

Its all just speculation , but they give us no more info so they are asking for it . The devs are subsimers too . My guess is that SH5 will look better than SH4 and have lots of new features but appeal to a wider audience but still be moddable to please the hardcore subsim fan . But its just speculation LOL .

JScones

11-28-09, 01:57 AM

THE_MASK

11-28-09, 02:04 AM

As i have said before , my 15 year old xbox playing son said " just playing a sub would be boring " . But according to ubi pc game sales are pretty good . I dont think they are marketing to the x box crowd . That would be suicide .

karamazovnew

11-28-09, 11:25 AM

Seems there's an abundance of 3D modellers on the books over in Romania to the detriment of simulation modellers.

I really hope they leave it open to some serious modding so that we can get a game that won't be an embarrassment to call a simulation. :nope:

First part: I hope not... I need a job.
Second part: I agree that it's a rant. And I've seen lots of it lately. Most of them feature the words "Das Boot" and I can't understand why. I've played SH long before seeing that movie and thanked the ancient greek gods that the games doesn't feature the 90% boring life of the uboat crews. Even tho some of us want molded food and tensions amid the crew, or people freaking up during an attack, the devs just read them, laughed and then moved on. It has already been stated many times, and by people that saw the demo, that the games has taken a new direction. A wise and brave choice considering how much the SH mods have achieved lately. I'm still asking myself: when will The Sims allow first person view? When will CoD feature a dynamic campaign? When will a NFS game force me to stop at traffic lights? When will a flight sim allow me to get out of the plane and walk around it to check if has it's pitot tube cleared, park it in the hangar and then driving in car home? That's what a NEW direction means and we should applaud the devs for trying to make the very first sim in which you HAVE a crew and you HAVE a true thing under your simulated ass to sim about using. Sure the game will not be perfect, as they've left out things which even I consider to be game-breaking issues. But they didn't promise us Reality or even SH5+GWX5 in one box. SH3 and SH4 did not have any real alternative. SH5's alternative will be SH3 with all it's current mods. And I bet that it will beat it hands down even in vanilla.

Lord Justice

11-28-09, 08:27 PM

interior flooding would certainly make it more gripping i like the concept. as for post 9 to 13 here, i feel it appropriate to say. Something i found out very fast,
there is no pleasing everyone. if u have a turd in ur pocket someone will want it simply for the reason they dont have it. SH5 to me means everything in my pc world, and one deep underlying regret in the real world for not joining the sub service, (army) was my path, but i admire, like most on this forum the concept of subs and there role from early until present. That said even although iam a short time member iam a die hard vetran of the sub sims. I love this site but find it so demanding and crytical. On some threads guys rip through, diesect, down to every little detail. some pos knowledge gained some neg, but then perhaps on next thread some the guys sway the thread for some jokes and captions and mock shows of bravado to ones buddies ignoring the original op. As for sh5 iam serious this meets most my demands and hoping so, but when i read concerned and extremley worried etc etc i need to go out. Iam sure this sim will be very good, but having 1 rivot short , or angle of light is offset in enterior etc and mass panic makes me think i actually have a life. if not up to par then the big guns move in and mod. for approx £30.00 pounds $48.00 or something why take a stroke, for some to be badly mocked at or using ones country of origin has no need. some are just to overcrytical precise etc but i bet this sim will be great, still the vultures will be ravenous, iam just gratefull to have my health and the fortunate luck and luxury to play another Hunter series.:rock:

longam

11-28-09, 10:43 PM

I hear you. But IMHO if SH5 goes down the "first person" path, then unless they can produce graphics like MW2, they will fail.

IMHO it seems like they are trying to appeal to too many demographics. The teenies who are into first person shooters simply won't be turned on by the graphics that SH5 will have. And those who want something akin to realism won't be too impressed either.

I fear they've sold out.

But wasn't it the Subsim community that screamed more compartments? Using a FP view to walk around these I think could be innovative and would help lend to the simulation experience.

I still think there is a need for the 2D panel to give an easier interface to work with.

Ducimus

12-01-09, 04:24 PM

First part: I hope not... I need a job.
Second part: I agree that it's a rant. And I've seen lots of it lately. Most of them feature the words "Das Boot" and I can't understand why.

The fear is form over function, or form at the cost of function. Or in other words, Instead of spending limited manhours trying to improve aspects of a simulation, they're spending limited manhours trying to create Das Boot the video game. Either way, i don't care, not interested.

Méo

12-02-09, 01:19 AM

Either way, i don't care, not interested.

If not interested get out and stop bothering us....

EDIT:

@WEBSTER and Takeda Shingen: What do you think about this???

It's not the first time he does that.

DO I GO ON OTHER GAME'S FORUMS HERE AND BULLSH**** THEIR GAMES?

To me, it's worst than being off-topic.

Sailor Steve

12-02-09, 02:11 AM

Ducimus was merely agreeing with the gripes already posted by JScones and Karamazovnew. Why aren't you complaining about their posts as well. I don't necessarily agree with them, but they certainly have the right to their opinions. I don't know what's really being done, and I contend that no one will know until the game is released, or at least until they show us something.

Wishing for 3D flooding is great. Arguing about whether it's going to be there or not is fruitless, unless what you really want is the chance to say "See? I was right!" It will be interesting to see how everything is done, but we won't know anything for sure until we do see it.

PL_Andrev

12-02-09, 04:34 AM

I am pleased that the developers are trying something new. Especially since the new solution will not affect the current solutions already.
An example of the good new ideas was "slow motion" in FEAR game... Does anyone want to play in "slow" the 3D shooter? After releasing it turned out to be a great innovation.

Should therefore await the opinions of the game until the new system.

Nice feature but less important than others? What does that say considering what we know the devs have added? Interesting that they consider an effective enemy less important that this 3D fluff they're giving us.

/rant

Consider what is more interesting in the SH5 game:
Hide enemy submarines near our ports which can attack and destroy our uboat or our suplly transport plus allied uboats from which we can get supplies...
or
Surface ships which can firing torpedoes to other ships.
Feasible, why not... but the battles of surface ships are quite rare in the SH3 / SH4.

I totally agree with the opinion of the developers here.

THE_MASK

12-02-09, 04:39 AM

JU_88

12-02-09, 05:07 AM

I will save any potential 'rants' until I have actually played the game. :doh:

We can sit here scrutinizing every screenshot and every little snipet of information until we are blue in the face...
It still desn't tell us how well the game will actually play.
But the more we expect, the more likely we will be dissapointed.

As this stage, our judgments are merely assumptions and speculation.

JScones

12-02-09, 05:13 AM

Consider what is more interesting in the SH5 game:
Hide enemy submarines near our ports which can attack and destroy our uboat or our suplly transport plus allied uboats from which we can get supplies...
or
Surface ships which can firing torpedoes to other ships.
Feasible, why not... but the battles of surface ships are quite rare in the SH3 / SH4.
Consider what is more interesting in the SH5 game:
Giving TORPEDO BOATS the ability to actually fire TORPEDOES at you, the U-boat Commander (which they WOULD do if they saw you scooting along the surface)
or
You asking Fritz how the soup is...again.

That's the point I was making. ;)

As an aside, it is interesting that the usual respondents are out in force...you know, the ones who complain when someone disagrees with their opinion, yet feel quite righteous to do likewise themselves. Interesting, eh? ;)

JU_88

12-02-09, 05:28 AM

Giving TORPEDO BOATS the ability to actually fire TORPEDOES at you, the U-boat Commander (which they WOULD do if they saw you scooting along the surface)
or
You asking Fritz how the soup is...again.;)

Well they have said Ai subs will have torpedos, So I'd be rather amazed if PT boats still suffered from torpedo tube constipation in SHV.
To be fair only 'suface ships' are mentioned, but while torpedos lauching capabilities are essential for PT boats they are not quite as important for Destroyers.

JScones

12-02-09, 05:31 AM

Yeah. Planes had them in SH4, right? That's gotta bring it all one step closer.

To be fair only 'suface ships' are mentioned, but while torpedos lauching capabilities are essential for PT boats they are not quite as important for Destroyers.
The example given in the question though is specifically the torpedo boat...a subset of surface ship. ;)

JU_88

12-02-09, 05:40 AM

Yeah. Planes had them in SH4, right? That's gotta bring it all one step closer.

The example given in the question though is specifically the torpedo boat...a subset of surface ship. ;)

Yeah I just meant that in: in the Devs statment they didnt say yes or no...only that its not as important for AI surface vessels as it is for AI Submarines.
(a bit vague) I would like to think they can can understand the importance of Torpedo boat being able to use Torpeedos as ordinace.
(otherwise its like bomber that cant drop bombs)
In SH3 & 4 it didnt happen as there was no AI torpeedo controller for any vessels, since we will likely have this in SHV, it should not be too difficult to stick one on an ELCO or whatever.

Tomi_099

12-02-09, 08:08 AM

First part: I hope not... I need a job.
Second part: I agree that it's a rant. And I've seen lots of it lately. Most of them feature the words "Das Boot" and I can't understand why. I've played SH long before seeing that movie and thanked the ancient greek gods that the games doesn't feature the 90% boring life of the uboat crews. Even tho some of us want molded food and tensions amid the crew, or people freaking up during an attack, the devs just read them, laughed and then moved on. It has already been stated many times, and by people that saw the demo, that the games has taken a new direction. A wise and brave choice considering how much the SH mods have achieved lately. I'm still asking myself: when will The Sims allow first person view? When will CoD feature a dynamic campaign? When will a NFS game force me to stop at traffic lights? When will a flight sim allow me to get out of the plane and walk around it to check if has it's pitot tube cleared, park it in the hangar and then driving in car home? That's what a NEW direction means and we should applaud the devs for trying to make the very first sim in which you HAVE a crew and you HAVE a true thing under your simulated ass to sim about using. Sure the game will not be perfect, as they've left out things which even I consider to be game-breaking issues. But they didn't promise us Reality or even SH5+GWX5 in one box. SH3 and SH4 did not have any real alternative. SH5's alternative will be SH3 with all it's current mods. And I bet that it will beat it hands down even in vanilla.
----------------------------------------
( German )

First part: I hope not... I Need a Job.

Oh ja !! natürlich, irgendjemand muss ja die Fehler korrigieren.
Das Thema kann man so ausdehnen das die Arbeit niemals zu Ende geht,
das wichtigste dabei ist das man die Fantasie nicht verliert.

Also ich denke wenn das Spiel vor Weinachten erscheint wird es ein schlechtes Spiel,
Ich denke Februar Märtz sind der richtige Zeitpunkt.

Das Interessante davon ist wenn man bedenkt und der beste Beispiel ist
Battelfield 2 ist vor zwei jahren hatte man angenommen das das Spiel
vollkommen ist , dann erleben wir das scenario von Coll of Duty
( Modern worfare ) und dann (Moder Worfare 2 ) und ich muss sagen ein Spiel
Übertrift das andere ..in allen Punkten.
Warum weil die Entwickler Phantasie haben.
Einiges habe ich festgestellt UBI-soft schläft nicht, im Gegenteil
Ubisoft ist hell wach !!
Und für dich mein freund wird es nicht an Arbeit fehlen.
Ich finde es Fantastisch und zugleich klug, denn alle oder viele Ideen sind
Aus euren Köpfen entstanden .
Wie Wassereinbruch im U-Boot mit ansteigenden Wasser, oder Regenbogen an
Horizont nach einen großen Regen , wie die Dynamik der Menschen im U-Boot.
Wie die Dynamische Campagne , wie Die Animierten Dieselmotoren die einen das Gefühl
Geben das man eine Wunderwaffe der 1940Jahre Steuert.
Das alles sind 3D-Modelle die ins Leben gerufen werden.
Mann kann das Gut oder schlecht gestallten oder Steuern.
Und genau das ist das was uns Battelfield oder Coll of Duty oder Flashpoint
Immer wieder auf das neueste zeigen und uns immer wieder zu staunen bringen.

Was ich bei den Russen noch bewundere ist ( Sturmovik (IL2 ) / Battel of Briten )
Das Sie den Publikum noch näher stehen und ihnen den Honig auf das Brot
schmiern und etwicklungs-Bilder zeigen und damit ihren Fans zeigen was auf Sie zukommt.
Das wünschte ich mir auch von Silent Hunter 5

---------------------
( English )

Oh yes! Of course, someone has indeed correct the errors.
The theme can be extended so that the work never comes to an end
The most important is that one's imagination does not lose.

So I think if the game will appear before Christmas it is a bad game
I think february is the right time.

The most interesting of these is when you think is the best example
Battelfield 2 is for two years had been assumed that the game
is perfect, then we experience the scenario of Coll of Duty
(Modern Worfare) and then (Moder Worfare 2) and I have to say a game
better the other .. in all respects.

Why because the developers imagination.

Something I have noticed UBI-soft is not sleeping, on the contrary,
Ubisoft is wide awake!

And for you my friend will be no lack of work.
I think it is Fantastic and also wise, because all or many of the ideas are
Born out your heads.

As water entering the submarine with rising water, or rainbow of
Horizon for a big rain, as the dynamics of people in the submarine.
As the dynamic campaign,
as The Animated diesel engines have a feeling
Give it a miracle that the 1940Jahre Controls.

These are all 3D models are launched.
Man can the good or bad build or taxes.

And that is exactly what we Battelfield or Coll of Duty or Flash Point
Again and again point to bring the newest and amazed us again and again.

What I admire is still among the Russians (Sturmovik (IL2) / Battel of Britain)
It is possible the audience even closer to them and the honey on the bread
Show and images, and thus show their fans what comes to you.
I also wished that from Silent Hunter 5.

</SPAN>

Méo

12-02-09, 09:40 AM

Ducimus was merely agreeing with the gripes already posted by JScones and Karamazovnew. Why aren't you complaining about their posts as well. I don't necessarily agree with them, but they certainly have the right to their opinions.

The problem is not his opinion or that he has no interest in SH5 the problem is that he got interest in bothering us.

In another post he said that he was not buying SH5 because it was only ATO.

Just an example: I've got no interest in NFL and i got no interest in bothering them in their thread in GT..

Do we wanna come here and see all the whining from everyone who's not satisfied that SH5 is only ATO?

Ducimus

12-02-09, 04:34 PM

If not interested get out and stop bothering us....

I have just as much of a right to post on a forum as you do.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88006&highlight=interior+flooding
Isnt what the 3d interior flooding is all about .

I was thinking more in terms of a functional flooding. If i mentioned the zones.cfg, i most certainly was. Think in terms of merchant ship damage mods where a ship is sunk by flooding as opposed to hit point loss. This is far different then a 3d rendition of an interior flooding. The former is function, the later is form.

The problem is not his opinion or that he has no interest in SH5 the problem is that he got interest in bothering us.

In another post he said that he was not buying SH5 because it was only ATO.

I have only a passing interest in SH5's development in the offchance that SH5 develops an addon pack for fleetboats much like SH4 did for Uboats. (though i very much doubt that) Since most of the Uboat fanboys like yourself didn't show ANY interest in SH4 until it had your favorite toy in it via UBM, i don't see what your problem is now that the situation is reversed.

JU_88

12-02-09, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Méo http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1212349#post1212349)
The problem is not his opinion or that he has no interest in SH5 the problem is that he got interest in bothering us.

In another post he said that he was not buying SH5 because it was only ATO.

I have only a passing interest in SH5's development in the offchance that SH5 develops an addon pack for fleetboats much like SH4 did for Uboats. (though i very much doubt that) Since most of the Uboat fanboys like yourself didn't show ANY interest in SH4 until it had your favorite toy in it via UBM, i don't see what your problem is now that the situation is reversed.

Oh bloody hell guys, not the PTO / ATO melodrama again... please....
before we all slit our wrists..... :dead:

Meo, everyone can have there opinion, even if their opinion is that they dont care. No need to let it get to you.

Ducimus, This entire forums is made up of 'fanboys' of some kind, you and me included. Uboat, Fleet Boat, or whatever. there all just a bloody submarines to most people.

My 2 cents. take it or leave it.

Ducimus

12-02-09, 06:56 PM

Oh bloody hell guys, not the PTO / ATO melodrama again... please....
before we all slit our wrists..... :dead:

Hey he started it. All i was doing was citing what the greivance was, and that i had no stake in it either way.

Ducimus, This entire forums is made up of 'fanboys' of some kind, you and me included. Uboat, Fleet Boat, or whatever. there all just a bloody submarines to most people.

True, but it was never the fanboy's choice or preference that i took issue with. My beef has been at it's core, against willful ignorance. I think you'll agree that is one thing nobody can accuse me of. Yes i have my preference, but im equally versed in both theaters. Not everyone can (unfortunately) say that.

Lord Justice

12-02-09, 10:09 PM

[quote=Méo;1212349]The problem is not his opinion or that he has no interest in SH5 the problem is that he got interest in bothering us.
Alas another commander to fall folly of verbal miscomuinication, or just plain gripes from ducimus. (1) posted a thread, NOT a serious one was just curious too see responses, Ducimus did not read the op thread wording properly, he decided to disect all the negative after i reponded to a few sharp cheeky remarks, totaly changed ,swayed the thread, thus resulting in debate and bad mannered exchanges. (2) Was suprised by a few other here names to quickly follow suit but perhaps they did not read the starting post!! of wording, Meo its called deceased crew members about three quaters down main page, please read it. (3) these forums are set for opinions, for us to unite, discuss, etc but does one deserve to be severley insulted ?? Watch the way it turned from me asking a simple OFF THE RECORD, INDIRECT question to be ripped into by band wagon jumping hull eating piranahs. if its not seriously intended then it sure will end up serious. When i served in elite reg i done some crappy things, but now on civvie street i could be getting haunted by some skinny spotty faced youth sitting at a screen with burger and pepsi, issuing petty insults or remarks, if only i could jump into this screen, but hey thats life. and my 2 cents worth :yeah:

JU_88

12-02-09, 10:22 PM

but now on civvie street i could be getting haunted by some skinny spotty faced youth sitting at a screen with burger and pepsi, :yeah:

Or an Insomniac with a cup of herbal tea, who incidently just cleaned up the cats sick (again) she pukes up furballs every two weeks so it seems.... :nope: cat food already stinks, but regurgitated catfood is 10x worse.
I will have baby in 3 months to add to the fun - so maybe its good practice :doh:

Sorry im rambling...

Lord Justice

12-02-09, 10:34 PM

rumbling or swinging a double edged sword? as for the herbal tea aye ur up late man, good luck with the baby lol ive got 2, or is it sh5 ur new baby:hmmm:

Ducimus

12-02-09, 10:41 PM

When i served in elite reg i done some crappy things, but now on civvie street i could be getting haunted by some skinny spotty faced youth sitting at a screen with burger and pepsi, issuing petty insults or remarks, if only i could jump into this screen, but hey thats life. and my 2 cents worth :yeah:

Ever hear of a little acronym called, ITG?

Lord Justice

12-02-09, 11:13 PM

aye, loads= Internet Tough Guy, or Into The Groove, perhaps Isralie T Grp . etc take from it what u may see when it comes tae u i dont give a f..k pal ur a waste of space, ur comments ara all ill mannered noo go chase yerself, av been nice now a dont want to even chat wae u any more and if any ur wee bum bashers want to pipe up let them, if nothing constuctive to say at all to posts or threads then beat it!!

Ducimus

12-02-09, 11:34 PM

You know, if you don't want miscommunication, you really need to improve on your communication skills. Most of the time i can't understand half the crap you write because your grammar is so poor. Scotland's national language is English, yes?

So again, lets cut to the chase here rather then play stupid forum games. You have an axe to grind with me. Yeah fine, i can see that.. So you posted some idea, asking for opinions, and as i recall, i gave a negative one, albiet in a somewhat polite manner at first. You got pissy and pushed for opinons, and as i recall, i gave you an unvarnished opinion after that. (don't ask for it if you don't want it) I do not recall resorting to namecalling, which you apparently do quite often. If you want to go locking horns with some dillweed like myself on messageboards, that is not the way to go about it.

Now then, that brings us to the present. I don't know what the intent of your post here is, other then to grind an axe with me, but i'll tell you this. If your trying to impress or intimidate me with your service in "elite reg", whatever dude. I did my own stint in the military and don't give a rats ass. But to the point, that kind of grab at intimidation or respect is so freaking common on messageboards, as to merit it's own acronym. ITG. You just qualified. Congrats Mr ITG.

So if you want to keep playing forum games tell you think you got the last word in, fine. I'll play along. The more you push me, the more i'll push back. I'm stubborn that way. Don't like what i have to say? That's what the ignore button is for.

Church SUBSIM

12-03-09, 12:30 AM

When a preview compares SH5 to Call Of Duty, one starts to worry.

chuckles ;)

Elder-Pirate

12-03-09, 12:36 AM

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/Santa2.jpg

Children, children, surely you don't want a lump of coal do you?

So behave yourself. I'm checking the list twice you know.

Méo

12-03-09, 01:03 AM

Meo, everyone can have there opinion, even if their opinion is that they dont care. No need to let it get to you.

I don't want to turn the whole thing here into a debate, i just want to clarify my point of view, cause you're someone i respect a lot here.

Everyone can have their opinion, of course, but...

It seems to me like basic respect that anyone who dislike SH5 not to come to the SH5 forum and bother us with repeated negative comments. Isn't it basic respect??

Example: I got interest in hockey but really got no interest in american football, do i go in the NFL 2009 thread in GT and tell them their sport is ******* ****???

Another: I really hate World of Warcraft, do i go in their forums and tell them their game is ******* ***???

BTW, i bought SH4 when it came out and really didn't like it, i don't know it was just.... i think you know what i mean.

And i agree with Neal that as a community we should support every game when it comes out (don't remember exactly but he already said something like that)

But when i see such comments it tends to change my mind...

When it will be time for a new PTO, will i be willing to support it? :hmmm:

JScones

12-03-09, 03:22 AM

You are kidding right? Ducimus has contributed more to this community than you ever will. He has every right to post his quite valid opinions here. You, however, seem to get your goat up everytime someone posts something that you don't agree with. Seems that whenever there is a complaint/flamewar/bait, your name is near the start of it. :hmmm: You seem to have a knack for p!ssing off people (Sevrin ring any bells?).

What we don't need here are righteous backseat moderators dictating who can do what...leave that job to the real moderators. :up:

karamazovnew

12-03-09, 04:38 AM

Ducimus has contributed more to this community than you ever will. He has every right to post his quite valid opinions here.

I was just about to point that out. Love TMO even tho at first I didn't play the PTO for the same type of political and historical reasons why Dulcimus doesn't want to play the ATO (not that I'm comparing the WW2 US side with the Axis... god no :oops:). Plus, on this thread he only replied to my "I don't understand why you guys use Das Boot as a warning sign" question. And I agree completely with his answer and especially his post about how working on a big project goes.

But what I can remind to both him and JScones is that making wolfpacks and torpedo shooting PT boats doesn't involve the entire dev team. By the time the demo was showed, the game was pretty much complete. Now part of the team works on polishing up the game, doing things that they know they can finish such as flooding, regardless of what we spam or ask on this forum. The other part has the unfortunate task of implementing NEW things on this last stretch before release. Just that we now get confirmation of eye-candy features doesn't mean that the devs have been wasting time :haha:, or that time could've been better spent. As a side note, those PT boats annoy me as hell already. Giving them torpedoes would turn them into the Cliff Racers of Morrowind. :arrgh!:

This new SH5 section of the forum has been lots of fun in the beginning, I was literally glued to the screen, but rapidly went sour after the Subsim Meeting. New info is scarce, new demands are pointless and rants pick off poor Markus's soup way too often. As far as I'm concerned, the direction of the game has been already set in place a long time ago, and as I've said, I'm happy with it and can't wait to see the finished game. And the rest is modding, which I hope Dulcimus will get involved in (even though he doesn't want to play, he can still make life hard for us Nazies by modding the US fleet) :up:.

JScones

12-03-09, 04:59 AM

C'mon, the soup already has icon status. In 20 years time, SH5 will undoubtedly be remembered for its soup in much the same way that AotD is remembered for its nightclub. Future subsimmers will be demanding soup included just for that "retro feel". Now that's a legacy. :up:

Anyway, yes, you and I both know that stating demands now--or even a few months ago--is pointless...but if people stopped doing so, or stopped speculating, what would the moderators be left to do? :rotfl2:

I've no doubt that we'll still be reading "I want to see..." posts right up to the day of release.

Jimbuna

12-03-09, 07:49 AM

Anyway, yes, you and I both know that stating demands now--or even a few months ago--is pointless...but if people stopped doing so, or stopped speculating, what would the moderators be left to do? :rotfl2:

It will be interesting to see just what effect on the eye candy and game funcionality all the requests and speculation in the threads has had, if any.

We will not know that until the time of release though :hmmm:

Méo

12-03-09, 12:31 PM

You seem to have a knack for p!ssing off people

Look who's talking...

I already said that i don't want to turn the whole thing here into a debate.

I think i clearly set my point of view, it was about his REPEATED negative comments, not the person.

He already said that he is not interested and that he's not gonna buy SH5, i don't see how can he contribute to the game. :hmmm:

Edit:

I admit i got impatient but i never made personal attacks to Ducimus and he never did to me, if he ever changes his mind and wants to contribute to SHV, he will be more than welcome. :up:

Ducimus

12-03-09, 02:00 PM

Just for the record, since Meo seems to be pushing the PTO vs ATO thing.

I played SH3 for im guessing at least 2 years.
- I came up with (i think) the original type 21 battery recharge fix.
- I figured out how to change flotilla's and bases around.
- i did the original bit on creating a monsun boat flotilla in the indian ocean
- i scripted traffic for the Carribean and Indian ocean.
- I helped figure out how Sensors worked at a time when nobody was sure about it.
- and yes, though we have our differences now, but at one point i was on the GWX team when GWX first made the transition from TGW to GWX.

So as the uboat/ATO scene goes. Been there, done that, been around the block, and did something. I did all that, and the ATO/Uboat scene wasn't even the theater i wanted.

After that, i took to Sh4. And here i'd note now that the first group of people to fire shots on the forum were hardcore ATO fans who were crying that SH4 was a PTO game. I never forgot that, particuarlly after putting time in a theater i didn't want to begin with. Now as Sh4 goes, to say that RFB and TMO saved Sh4 out of the frying pan would probably be citing the obvious. Now this might be a wild boast, but it's entirely possible that indirectly, i (and the RFB guys) did quite a bit to help support the continuation of the series by moving our supermods to SH4 version 1.5. If past forum posts are any indicator, then many people are/were buying UBM who wouldn't have otherwise as a result. UBM was, i think, an attempt to squeeze more money out of the series in order to finance future projects. I don't know if all of this is true, but it's a hunch i've had.

Now that i have the choice of my preffered theater, why would i move? I have thought about trying to mod a PTO game out of SH5, but it occurs to me that such an endeavor is ultimatly, pissing in the wind due to interior changes alone. What am i going to do, mod a gato with a german crew and all type 9 interior? (nevermind i stuck a german type 9 radio room into a fleet boat interior. :88) ) The changes are too vast, so there's no point in it unless Ubi releases an addon pack. Hence, my passing interest in SH5. Am I upset that SH5 is going back to the ATO? Sure. If you waited 12 years for you preferred theater and get tossed a buggy POS, and then have it abandoned, how would you feel about it?

Ducimus

12-03-09, 02:47 PM

The fear is form over function, or form at the cost of function. Or in other words, Instead of spending limited manhours trying to improve aspects of a simulation, they're spending limited manhours trying to create Das Boot the video game. Either way, i don't care, not interested.

Since the most ardant fanboys seem to be focusing on the last sentence instead of the first sentence, i'll explain this out, though you may not like it.

For whatever reason, the majority subsim community and/or the submarine sim crowd as a whole appears to be VERY visually oriented. The dev's have taken notice and their giving you what you want, but not neccessarily what the game needs.

Sh5 is derived from Sh4, which is derived from Sh3. Sh4 while obviously recieiving a massive overhaul, is still subject to some legacy issues and limitations of the SH3 game engine. In other words, Sh4 has inherited some of SH3's limitations. When your trying to shoehorn things into Sh4, it becomes painfully obvious. A good number of features that Sh4 is supposed to inheirt from SH3, don't even work. A few features that are supposed to be new to Sh4, don't even work.

Sh5 is being built on top of this. And while im sure the devs will go through and solve as many issues as they can several issues will remain, i think its unavoidable. This brings me back to function over form. Sh5 is clearly, spurcing up the graphcs, BIGTIME. They're giving people what they've been clamoring for. But development time and budgets are limited. The developers are going to have to prioritize, and most likely their gonig to prioritize what the user will notice the most, or what will sell the most. The rest will be put on a back burner, and addressed in a patch, or not at all. The point of my saying all this, you can polish a turd, but all you'll have after that, is a polished turd. Sure, a clean shiny turd in a new spiffy wrapper, but a turd none the less. So with people posting eyecandy related stuff, a few folks (most certainly myself), or raising a hand and going.. whooooa.. hold the bus! What bout this, that , and this?!

Form over function is bad mojo. Sure you'll get an immersive interior, but how about the core gameplay and functionality? Will it recieve the attention it needs, or will it be more of the same? Will SH5 be a polished turd? Even though i'm not interested in the ATO, i don't want to see Sh5 become that. My personal prediction is that the core gameplay will remain identical to Sh3/sh4. Which isn't saying much, and while the theater doesn't interest me, new and improve functionality would. if Sh5 was more of a sim, with some stuff like this, (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158365) i would pick it up in a heartbeat. But if it's more of the same in a shiny new wrapper? Not really interested.

JU_88

12-03-09, 02:58 PM

Since the most ardant fanboys seem to be focusing on the last sentence instead of the first sentence, i'll explain this out, though you may not like it.

For whatever reason, the majority subsim community and/or the submarine sim crowd as a whole appears to be VERY visually oriented. The dev's have taken notice and their giving you what you want, but not neccessarily what the game needs.

Sh5 is derived from Sh4, which is derived from Sh3. Sh4 while obviously recieiving a massive overhaul, is still subject to some legacy issues and limitations of the SH3 game engine. In other words, Sh4 has inherited some of SH3's limitations. When your trying to shoehorn things into Sh4, it becomes painfully obvious. A good number of features that Sh4 is supposed to inheirt from SH3, don't even work. A few features that are supposed to be new to Sh4, don't even work.

Sh5 is being built on top of this. And while im sure the devs will go through and solve as many issues as they can several issues will remain, i think its unavoidable. This brings me back to function over form. Sh5 is clearly, spurcing up the graphcs, BIGTIME. They're giving people what they've been clamoring for. But development time and budgets are limited. The developers are going to have to prioritize, and most likely their gonig to prioritize what the user will notice the most, or what will sell the most. The rest will be put on a back burner, and addressed in a patch, or not at all. The point of my saying all this, you can polish a turd, but all you'll have after that, is a polished turd. Sure, a clean shiny turd in a new spiffy wrapper, but a turd none the less. So with people posting eyecandy related stuff, a few folks (most certainly myself), or raising a hand and going.. whooooa.. hold the bus! What bout this, that , and this?!

Form over function is bad mojo. Sure you'll get an immersive interior, but how about the core gameplay and functionality? Will it recieve the attention it needs, or will it be more of the same? Will SH5 be a polished turd? Even though i'm not interested in the ATO, i don't want to see Sh5 become that. My personal prediction is that the core gameplay will remain identical to Sh3/sh4. Which isn't saying much, and while the theater doesn't interest me, new and improve functionality would. if Sh5 was more of a sim, with some stuff like this, (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158365) i would pick it up in a heartbeat. But if it's more of the same in a shiny new wrapper? Not really interested.

Well.....Give it a chance, at least wait see what people are saying after release ;)

Méo

12-03-09, 03:10 PM

After that, i took to Sh4. And here i'd note now that the first group of people to fire shots on the forum were hardcore ATO fans who were crying that SH4 was a PTO game.

I can assure you i was not one of them.

I apologize for making my comments sound like an attack, i've said my opinion in a very impatient way and i'm sorry for that.

I think you can understand what my point was about.

Just for the record, since Meo seems to be pushing the PTO vs ATO thing.

If you read carefuly i've said nothing wrong about PTO, i only said that i bought it on release and i didn't like it and i agree with Neal to support the genre.

I've bought SH3 and SH4 on release will surely do the same for SH5. I also made a donation to subsim and will probably continue doing so. It's my way to support the community.

It's really great that you guys have the time, the will and the skills to do more. :up:

Lord Justice

12-03-09, 03:20 PM

You are kidding right? Ducimus has contributed more to this community than you ever will. He has every right to post his quite valid opinions here. You seem to have a knack for p!ssing off people

What we don't need here are righteous backseat moderators dictating who can do what...leave that job to the real moderators. (1) LOL this is what is known as kissing and banging each others azzes, who agrees there valid opinions??? (2) You so called moderators beleive and i mean truly belive that you have earned the god given right to think no one else has an opinion, or its wrong, or it must be first approved by you guys the so called chosen ones lol (3) so high with your own eras of importance and arty farty chit chat beleive are always correct and demand respect because one has contributed to modding a pc sim wich may i say is downlodable if one chooses too only , you did not give us anything, merley an added option, one imagines moderators prancing around in front of a mirror with pc in background wearing an armband with stripes, get over yourselves. (4) Now hopefully you back on earth again and see clearly may i remind you to chat, explain, enjoy, discuss the sim without being damm spitefull and condescending toward anyone with ANY kind of idea for the new game. would expect more from the humble knights of the round table. Point to note : everyone whom is not a modder please humbly bow before thy modders and ask permission if you can post a question or reply and if it is deemed worthy. This is there domain the bum boys club, or so they claim .:down: ps meo dont cow down to this minnority of topic destroyers

Webster

12-03-09, 05:01 PM

sober started this thread to discuss interior flooding in the sh5 game but somehow it has become a personal discussion between Ducimus, Meo, and Para instead. I think we have all heard quite enough of it and if you feel the need to continue it then please do it with PM's.

As to weather ducimus should be giving opinions on sh5 when he says he wont buy it and doesnt like it, .

While Ducimus has said he is not interested in sh5 and wont buy it, he has a legitimate modding background that gives him the ability to discuss things about the game and understand them better then the average person does on the forums. while his "opinion" of sh5 may not be popular or shared by those here, what he says and has to say has great value and is no less relevent because of his personal feelings about the game.

@ Ducimus, the devs said the sh5 game is only using the "content" from sh3 because its about ww2 u-boats and that everything in sh5, game engine, design, and grafics will be all new so nothing is based on the way it works in sh3 or sh4.

@ Meo, its easy to see how much you care about this game and i understand how you feel but i think you are looking at Ducimus' comments as being purposely negative or "dumping" on sh5. while it is only my opinion, i dont think that was how he meant it to be. i think Ducimus is just saying things based only on his modding background and what he feels does and doesnt work in sh3 and sh4.

@ Para, I have given you a wide berth waiting for you to settle in here at subsim and "mellow out" but you seam to enjoy conflict way too much. maybe you just like to push peoples buttons for fun but even when unprovoked and there is no reason for it, you seam to go out of your way to be rude to people so from now on i will no longer look the other way.

Gentlemen I ask that you please allow sober's thread to get back on topic or i will be forced to close it.

Lord Justice

12-03-09, 06:20 PM

ok webster, out of respect for the forum and you i will take 10 days out to mellow, all i ask is that no matter what ducimus has contributed, plaease put a tempoary muzzle on the puppy to reconsider where he snaps at, especially as he seems to be favoured here by your response, for me i get the stern short straw, always learn the hard way, as for sober and this thread my humble appoligies buddy. catch you all later keep your chin up meo.

Ducimus

12-03-09, 06:59 PM

Meo,
No hard feelings from me.

Webster,
@ Ducimus, the devs said the sh5 game is only using the "content" from sh3 because its about ww2 u-boats and that everything in sh5, game engine, design, and grafics will be all new so nothing is based on the way it works in sh3 or sh4.

Not to argue, but this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1163432&postcount=27)is open to interrpretation.

4 para,
>>especially as he seems to be favoured here by your response

If i was really favored, i wouldn't have been banned from subsim.com for a year. I have been in far too many forum arguments, involved in far too much mod politics, and now i am far too jaded to care anymore. You may not like me, but i'll usually talk straight and openly.

Elder-Pirate

12-03-09, 07:13 PM

In this SHIV pic I dove to 100 feet with this and four more holes ( near stern ) crawling home just after refueling at a non home port ( no they wouldn't fix any holes.:damn: ) I saved first then dived to see if sub would sink and it should have with all the supposedly exterior/interior damage. The size of this hole alone should have keep the sub from surfacing, but no I came right up to surface and made it to home port.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/surfacedok-1.jpg

My point is either have someone weld a plate ( interior side ) over these holes or let the sub sink in SHV.

Also Dev's maybe you can fix it so a U-Boat can be fixed in a non home friendly port........please.

Wish I'd have kept the other pics as the sub looked like Swiss cheese.:hmmm:

Webster

12-03-09, 07:15 PM

Webster,

Not to argue, but this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1163432&postcount=27)is open to interrpretation.

i see what you mean, :hmmm:

have look at what he said to me here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1169145#post1169145

anyway, back to flooding

The size of this hole alone should have keep the sub from surfacing, but no I came right up to surface and made it to home port.

My point is either have someone weld a plate ( interior side ) over these holes or let the sub sink in SHV.

Also Dev's maybe you can fix it so a U-Boat can be fixed in a non home friendly port........please.

Wish I'd have kept the other pics as the sub looked like Swiss cheese.:hmmm:

i dont think they had the materials to weld on patches, i think someone mentioned they carried wood to make patches and reinforce things.

i would be happy to just see water pouring in and out of any holes you see as well as inside the compartment where visable.

Task Force

12-03-09, 07:20 PM

Hope the game includes this... I always hated the water not collecting after getting a bad leak.

karamazovnew

12-03-09, 08:58 PM

To break the ice (or lava field :haha:), I'll quote the devs again.

Yes you will, even more you will have to manage the flooding.

I wonder what they meant by that. Let's see, during combat situations, the bulkheads were closed to prevent instant catastrophic flooding. If a compartment started taking water and the gaps were impossible to repair in time, it had to be abandoned and sealed shut, right? Only at surface could the compartment be entered again to attempt repairing it. I wonder how many compartments a sub could loose and still be able to surface through emergency procedures.

So after a bit of reading reports of survivor interrogations (I wish I could find more):
- all bulkheads were closed during attacks (possible game command)
- captains usually conducted hull integrity checks when possible, after sustaining any hull damage. The hull could bend and buckle from gun fire and close explosions but still remain watertight until a certain depth (so in the game we need different hull integrities and breach depths for each compartment).
- the entire crew took as a main priority flood control and sealing damaged compartments (so the Damage Control team should be more flexible in game)
- they used to pump water like crazy during depth charge attacks but halted between them if they could afford such luxury (possible game command/option for the crew)
- they abandoned compartments that were deemed beyond repair (possible game command with the possibility of failing to shut the bulkhead again ,thus loosing a second compartment)
- they managed to seal up compartments but this also meant returning to base asap.
- pumping out water required using precious compressed air (possible game command to move the water by hand from one compartment to another by hand as they did in Das Boot so that you only have to increase pressure in just one compartment).
- for special emergency surfacing, the crew had to be moved to a certain area of the sub to level it and the dive planes and engines were pushed to the limit (game controls to move crew and manual plane control).
- special materials for patching up the sub were limited (possible game option to reinforce certain parts while leaving others weak).

Any thoughts?

Ducimus

12-03-09, 09:30 PM

You know it would be interesting if they could move away from the Hit point damage model. yeah flooding is a part of the game, and most of the time all flooding means is a loss or decrease in depth control. If memory serves correctly, in SH3, a completely destroyed compartment = loss of the boat. I havent experimented with that in SH4, but flooding only means loss of control for the most part.

Now the thing is, hull integrity , all it is, is a percentage of how many hitpoints are remaining (or was deducted) from the overall hit point count on your submarine. Realistically, a single hole through the pressurehull, and you are DONE. Period. You can't repair a hole in your pressure hull for the most part. (Although i think the crew of U505 managed to do that, but didn't have much in the way of depth after that)

Now from all accounts ive read, when a sub leaks water, its through valves, gaskets, basically any external openings through the pressure hull. Sea pressure, and hydrostatic shock are what rattle these things loose. So, from a damage model standpoint, if ubi could emphasis flood control over hitpoints, (the whole concept of H.I needs to go away i think) and make it so that a shell through the pressurehull (or bulkhead in SH4's case) results a non diveable condition due to the huge amounts of sea water coming in, that would be a step in the right direction.

edit:
Weeeee , I just gave myself an idea.

karamazovnew

12-03-09, 10:08 PM

Realistically, a single hole through the pressurehull, and you are DONE. Period.

Here's something taken from http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/britsubshakespeare.html
Just as he was giving the order to dive, a lucky shot from the supply ship burst on the Shakespeare's pressure hull and tore a hole about nine inches by four. It was impossible to dive now and there was nothing for it but to remain on the surface and fight it out with the two ships with the gun. Water was entering the boat through the hole in the hull and flooding the engine room.

To my shame I completely forgot that a pressure hull doesn't behave like a normal ship hull and bulkheads are useless for sealing ruptured pressured compartments. They might do a good job at shallow depth but that's about it. SH4 and SH3 never made this difference I think. Normally, crew should report a breach (unless you're all dead already) which would lead to instant emergency surface or the nerve cracking decision weather to fight it off on the surface or sink to the bottom in shallow waters and pray. Wait, that's a good game mechanic :D.

Now, the way I see it, if you're down at 200m and a depth charge blows up near you, it doesn't instantly breach. What it does is bend the hull. And I've read that even an inch out of a perfect circle can decrease hull resistance by 30%. So after the hull is bent, it can rupture which means instant death. If the same charge blows up near you at 50m, you might be ok. But the moment you go to 200, dead :dead:.

So I still stand on my, quote "- they managed to seal up compartments but this also meant returning to base asap." but it depends a lot on circumstances :up: