View Full Version : Easyjet Holocaust gaffe
OneToughHerring
11-20-09, 05:04 PM
http://www.newstatesman.com/2009/11/holocuast-memorial-easyjet-magazine
That's pretty bad. How could they not know?
SteamWake
11-20-09, 05:07 PM
What were they thinking :nope:
Platapus
11-20-09, 06:01 PM
I am not familiar with German law. If it is illegal to take such pictures without permission than I can understand the issue. If, however, the law permits it, I frankly don't see the issue.
Biggles
11-20-09, 06:03 PM
I don't see why you'd want to take such pictures at such a site in the first place...
OneToughHerring
11-20-09, 06:09 PM
I am not familiar with German law. If it is illegal to take such pictures without permission than I can understand the issue. If, however, the law permits it, I frankly don't see the issue.
Well I guess it's just a question of good/bad taste. Better to err on the side of caution in these things.
Schroeder
11-20-09, 06:19 PM
The Holocaust memorial site is not a historic location. It is just a few concrete blocks in Berlin. AFAIK nothing holocaust regarding happened there so to a lot of people it is just that, a bunch of concrete blocks and nothing more.
Freiwillige
11-20-09, 06:34 PM
I think the world has become to hyper sensitive. Really if it was Neo Nazi's taking photo's I could understand the anger but this just falls into the category of ....yawn.
Platapus
11-20-09, 06:36 PM
Well I guess it's just a question of good/bad taste. Better to err on the side of caution in these things.
If we are going to start subjecting marketing to this standard a lot will have to change.
And, of course, who gets to choose what is in "good" or "bad" "taste"?
I totally agree with Biggles, I don't know why they would shoot there.
But if the law allows it, they should be able to.
Shearwater
11-20-09, 06:55 PM
Let us observe a moment of silence for all the millions of people who helped to make such a witty ad possible.
It made me realize how rare raw concrete has become these days.
Hardly anti-sematism.
Just thoughtlessness.
Skybird
11-20-09, 07:36 PM
No point in discussing this. Either you have the class and sensibility to understand why this was a bad idea and is an example of extremely bad taste, or you have not.
I personally find the "Stelenfeld" unneeded in idea, and lousy in visual execution, btw. But liking it or not is not the point here. However, there have been other examples of thoughtlessness before, from punks smearing on the blocks, over tourists jumping from head to head of the blocks, to people bringing music, dancing and having Gothic picnic between the blocks.
So, lack of class and lack of sensibility goes far beyond Easyjet.
Platapus
11-20-09, 08:58 PM
No point in discussing this. Either you have the class and sensibility to understand why this was a bad idea and is an example of extremely bad taste, or you have not.
Wow, way to insult and nullify people who may disagree with your opinion. :nope:
Task Force
11-20-09, 09:09 PM
hmm... bad choice of place to take a pic for a magazine...
Skybird
11-20-09, 09:33 PM
Wow, way to insult and nullify people who may disagree with your opinion. :nope:
You either have what it takes to see the bad taste in this story, or you have not. And if you haven't, it says more about you than about me.
Some things are so basic and elemental that it is useless to even wanting to explain them - that's like sowing on a frozen field in mid-winter. the farmer's opinion has little to do with it, he either knows the right time of the year for sowing, or he does not.
Either you have the class and sensibility to see why it is bad taste, or you have not. If it would need an explanation, the explanation necessarily would be wasted.
Platapus
11-20-09, 09:41 PM
Some things are so basic and elemental that it is useless to even wanting to explain them
And that is why you will never learn. :nope:
Everything can and should be be discussed as everything has different understandings and interpretations.
A lot can be learned about an issue by trying to understand opposing viewpoints, not despite the fact that they are opposing, but because they are opposing.
Skybird
11-20-09, 09:55 PM
Sad that you think the profaning of 6 million deaths for commerical purposes even must be discussed pro and contra, and "must be asked questions about" in order to understand those precious "different views and opinions". But in this case this is your failure, not mine, and not anybody elses. Sometimes things must not be relativised endlessly. Sometimes all that is needed is a clear, uncompromised judgement.
If you can't see that in this given case, I cannot help you. Maybe see some films on the holocaust, or talk to some Jews who had relatives in the camps.
Platapus
11-20-09, 09:57 PM
Have a nice evening Skybird.
Dimitrius07
11-21-09, 11:56 AM
Thise making me sick, personaly. I don`t know how about others.
Jimbuna
11-21-09, 12:52 PM
Pretty insensitive and clumsy of Easyjet but I suspect not deliberate.
bookworm_020
11-22-09, 05:08 AM
Pretty insensitive and clumsy of Easyjet but I suspect not deliberate.
Agree, they may have not been aware of the location when they submitted it, but if they acted quickly to remove the offending magazines, then they handled it correctly.
Shearwater
11-22-09, 04:16 PM
If they had asked for permission to shoot there, they surely woulv have had to realize. Since they didn't, I strongly assume it never crossed their minds for a second.
Jimbuna
11-22-09, 04:35 PM
"The magazine is produced by INK -- an external publishing house, and easyJet were not aware of the images until they appeared in print. As a consequence we are now reviewing our relationship with the publisher and are withdrawing this month's issue from all flights."
I think it's in bad taste, don't see much difference to taking fashion shots on someones grave!:-? Plenty of other more appropriate places!:yep:
Have a nice evening Skybird.
Yeah, Platapus, let's sit down for a sec and think about it. Hey, maybe it was a good idea to do some fashion shootings at a memorial site dedicated to 6 million innocent people murdered by a fascist regime.
Man, you gota live in Disneyland to not see a problem with it. Or you are
a) one of those who think it never happened.
b) on a crusade to downplay it because in your head "the Jews" are too powerfull and need to be...reduced...in their power only you mean of course...or some similar crap.
You have a nice evening.
onelifecrisis
11-23-09, 04:24 PM
I can't believe this. The same guy who thinks the morality of war can be compared to that of a game of chess is now getting his knickers in a right old twist over a photo shoot, and how it "profanes the death of 6 million people"! I agree the shoot was in bad taste, but I marvel at your priorities, Skybird.
And that post about class and sensibility bordered on flame bait, even though I agree with what you were basically saying.
antikristuseke
11-23-09, 04:26 PM
Yeah, Platapus, let's sit down for a sec and think about it. Hey, maybe it was a good idea to do some fashion shootings at a memorial site dedicated to 6 million innocent people murdered by a fascist regime.
Man, you gota live in Disneyland to not see a problem with it. Or you are
a) one of those who think it never happened.
b) on a crusade to downplay it because in your head "the Jews" are too powerfull and need to be...reduced...in their power only you mean of course...or some similar crap.
You have a nice evening.
Or maybe he is one of those people who does not mind when memorials are used for fashion shoots, but I don't know him well enough to speak for him, I myself fall into that category though.
Schroeder
11-23-09, 04:36 PM
Yeah, Platapus, let's sit down for a sec and think about it. Hey, maybe it was a good idea to do some fashion shootings at a memorial site dedicated to 6 million innocent people murdered by a fascist regime.
Well it's ca. 8 million actually. Ca. 6milion Jews and round about 2 million Sinti, Roma, political opponents, homosexuals etc.
Man, you gota live in Disneyland to not see a problem with it. Or you are
a) one of those who think it never happened.
b) on a crusade to downplay it because in your head "the Jews" are too powerfull and need to be...reduced...in their power only you mean of course...or some similar crap.
Now take three deep breaths and read a few more of Platapus' posts in any given thread and then show me again why you believe him to be someone like that.
I don't see such a big problem in it too. It is not a location at which anything important happened. It is a randomly picked place for some concrete blocks that are dedicated to something yes, but it is not like shooting those pictures in Auschwitz or any place were the murdering took place. So yes, it is a poor choice for a location but I wouldn't label anyone
a) one of those who think it never happened.
b) on a crusade to downplay it because in your head "the Jews" are too powerfull and need to be...reduced...in their power only you mean of course...or some similar crap.
or similar just because they are taking pictures there or don't mind pictures being taken there.
Or maybe he is one of those people who does not mind when memorials are used for fashion shoots, but I don't know him well enough to speak for him, I myself fall into that category though.
Thanks for proving my point on category b).
antikristuseke
11-23-09, 04:55 PM
What?
Take a look at my post again, I am in no way trying to downplay it because it is a memorial for the jews, I was talking about memorials in general, I would not throw a fit if they decided to do a fashion shoot on a memorial dedicated to Estonian soldiers who died in our war for independence.
It is a randomly picked place for some concrete blocks that are dedicated to something yes, but it is not like shooting those pictures in Auschwitz or any place were the murdering took place. So yes, it is a poor choice for a location but I wouldn't label anyone
or similar just because they are taking pictures there or don't mind pictures being taken there.
Why would it only be bad enough for you if the shooting had taken place in Auschwitz instead of a memorial that is dedicated to the memories of those who were in Auschwitz or similar places?
I don't get your point. Maybe you don't like the memorial? That's fine. I even think it's pretty pointless when at the same time a majority of Europeans think that not e.g. a dictator who is killing his own people and developing nuclear bombs, but instead Israel is the biggest threat to world peace and other antisemitic bull****. I guess caring about the dead is easier than taking a stand for the living. Same story 65+ years ago.
That doesn't mean however that it's OK to take fashion shots at this site. I don't see any difference had they taken the shots right in Auschwitz, since that memorial is dedicated to all the people who were murdered in many different places all over the world, including Auschwitz.
What?
Take a look at my post again, I am in no way trying to downplay it because it is a memorial for the jews, I was talking about memorials in general, I would not throw a fit if they decided to do a fashion shoot on a memorial dedicated to Estonian soldiers who died in our war for independence.
Would they mind? Or their relatives?
It ever crossed your mind that not everything's about what you think?
Shearwater
11-23-09, 05:05 PM
"The magazine is produced by INK -- an external publishing house, and easyJet were not aware of the images until they appeared in print. As a consequence we are now reviewing our relationship with the publisher and are withdrawing this month's issue from all flights."
Nuff said, isn't it?
I think nobody needs to be told why it was in very bad taste, so I wonder where this issue warrants further debate.
antikristuseke
11-23-09, 05:14 PM
I don't know if they would mind, I can't talk to dead people. And their relatives might mind or might not.
But this is irrelevant to you accusing someone else of
Man, you gota live in Disneyland to not see a problem with it. Or you are
a) one of those who think it never happened.
b) on a crusade to downplay it because in your head "the Jews" are too powerfull and need to be...reduced...in their power only you mean of course...or some similar crap.
when that person did state that
I totally agree with Biggles, I don't know why they would shoot there.
But if the law allows it, they should be able to.
Basically, you are accusing someone for what amounts to holocaust denial or antisemitism for having a different opinion to yours when it comes to the use of monuments. And when I present my opinion on the mater you do the same thing again. Instead of arguing my opinion you attack my character by calling me an anti semite, which I am not.
Allright, in the clear: Not seeing a problem with or making a debate on why it is OK to make a fashion shooting at a holocaust memorial site to me is antisemitic indeed, because it is pretty f*cking disrespectful, if not contemptuous, towards the victims. Please excuse if I'm just a tad old fashioned in that and may not yet have arrived in the 21st century, where everything is O.K.
antikristuseke
11-23-09, 05:36 PM
Allright, in the clear: Not seeing a problem with or making a debate on why it is OK to make a fashion shooting at a holocaust memorial site to me is antisemitic indeed, because it is pretty f*cking disrespectful, if not contemptuous, towards the victims. Please excuse if I'm just a tad old fashioned in that and may not yet have arrived in the 21st century, where everything is O.K.
You missed my point completely. Just because you think it is disrespectful doe not mean it is ok for you to accuse others of something they are not. I can respect your opinion even though I disagree with it, but your baseless attacks are what I have a problem with.
You missed my point completely. Just because you think it is disrespectful doe not mean it is ok for you to accuse others of something they are not. I can respect your opinion even though I disagree with it, but your baseless attacks are what I have a problem with.
Sorry for cutting through the BS.
At least you have a problem with something.
Skybird
11-23-09, 05:52 PM
I can't believe this. The same guy who thinks the morality of war can be compared to that of a game of chess is now getting his knickers in a right old twist over a photo shoot, and how it "profanes the death of 6 million people"! I agree the shoot was in bad taste, but I marvel at your priorities, Skybird.
Mind to link to the source of where I compared the ethics of war, or lack of, to that of a match of chess? I said a lot of tough things about war and that I see many ethical concerns as self-contradictions once war is there, but comparing ethics of war to that of chess I cannot remember, because I do not see what chess has to do with ethics. Maybe I have comopared tactics and strategy.
And that post about class and sensibility bordered on flame bait, even though I agree with what you were basically saying.
So you agreed to something that you see as flame-baiting, making you agreeing with flame baiting itself. Which is illustrating an interesting attitude, but okay, that is not my beer.
I certainly do not see it as flame-baiting what I said. And I still think that tolerating the profaning of 6 million deaths for the sake of commercial advertising - or wanting to debate why that is a profaning - as something that shows a stunning lack of sensibility and moral class in the person in question.
If you would go to a funeral, at the grave lower your pants and piss onto the coffin, you would be in severe legal trouble. Without any debate about whether what you did was within the standards of tact and morals, or not. Whether or not you understand what it is about, would not be of interest, but you would be held legally responsible for your offense. Even if you think it was harmless, or funny.
I also find it extremely difficult to imagine you go to the holocaust memorial at Berlin and do not know where you are and what it is about. That is like visiting Yad Vashem and thinking of it as a warming room for homeless people.
Not that I care much for both places. But if you think you must go there, then behave yourself and follow the general rules of piety. I do not believe somebody going to such a place and then claiming to not know where he is. When he is behaving in an offending, ridiculing, minimising manner, it therefore is intentional. And that's why I think those shooting the advertisment campaign at the Stelenfeld, really deserve a spanking. they considered it to be an interesting motive and made use of it in explicit disregard for the meaning of that place. I am sure they knew in full what they were doing.
Dunno what all the arguing is above above me and i cant bothered to read it all either :)
Back to the orginal post, it is in poor taste yes - but it is forgivable, it was just abit of stupid idea to shoot there thats all.
Now to put it in to perspective, what about people who go around vandalising memorials (of any kind)
Those are the guys need to be lynched. :stare:
Remember the VE memorial getting vadalised here in the UK, man.. what I would give to teleport that idiots sorry ass on to Omar beach in 1944.
Skybird
11-23-09, 06:05 PM
Lynched...???
Jimbuna
11-23-09, 06:15 PM
Dunno what all the arguing is above above me and i cant bothered to read it all either :)
Back to the orginal post, it is in poor taste yes - but it is forgivable, it was just abit of stupid idea to shoot there thats all.
Now to put it in to perspective, what about people who go around vandalising memorials (of any kind)
Those are the guys need to be lynched. :stare:
Remember the VE memorial getting vadalised here in the UK, man.. what I would give to teleport that idiots sorry ass on to Omar beach in 1944.
I'd send him to Omaha....without a rifle :03:
Platapus
11-23-09, 08:12 PM
I appreciate the effort guys, but no need. :salute:
OneToughHerring
11-23-09, 11:38 PM
Well it's ca. 8 million actually. Ca. 6milion Jews and round about 2 million Sinti, Roma, political opponents, homosexuals etc.
Well according to the Wikipedia-article on the Holocaust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust), from 11 to 17 million. This including at least some Soviet civilian casualties. However there is debate about whether or not the term Holocaust should be used to describe just the Jewish victims or all of the victims.
Lynched...???
Dont take me too literally...
Its like me saying 'Id rather eat pins and remove my own eyeballs with a fork -than watch the X factor'.... doesnt mean I actually would :haha:
@Jim yes its Omaha no Omah - whoops!
papa_smurf
11-24-09, 06:09 AM
Well to coin the phrase..... Whoops! :nope:
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