Governor elections and other issues.

[CaptainHaplo]

Well, Nov 3rd, and so far, Virginia has dumped a democratic governor for a republican.

In New Jersey, the votes are still being counted, but it looks like the same will occur there.

Whats even more reassuring, is the NY 23'rd congressional district, in which the republican DROPPED OUT - then turned around to support the democrat - over a "conservative" party candidate. What is exciting about hat? Its the fact that this election may just show people are not just paying attention, but moving beyond the letter beside the name, and looking at the ISSUES.

Other ballot measures are on the radar as well. Gay marriage, everything but "marriage" initiatives, etc. I look forward to seeing the numbers on turnout.

[Zachstar]

Yes Virginia has dumped that sack of crap. Good on them! Assumed he would get the black vote automatically due to Obama support and actively dissed the public option.

There looks to be some upsets as well. But perhaps this is a wakup call to the congress dems that trying to please republicans in an economic crisis is a nogo. If people want repub policies they will vote in repubs. Vise versa with dems and that is what happened.

[CaptainHaplo]

That may have been what happened in the 2008 election - though the results in New Jersey (where Obama campaigned heavily for Corzine recently) shows that it is now a resurgent conservative (not "republican") agenda that has resonated with voters.

CNN projects that NJ has elected a fiscally conservative, smaller government candidate. Given the fact that NJ has always been a liberal stronghold, this is a sign that the hard left agenda isn't resonating with even the "average" democrat.

I really am looking to see the results of the 23rd congressional race.

Edit WASHINGTON (CNN) – With only 21 percent of precincts reporting, Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman leads Democrat Bill Owens. The Republican candidate, Dede Scozzafava, withdrew from the race a few days ago.

[Zachstar]

That could be bad news for the republican party. On one hand you have people who do not accept republicans as fiscally conservative (Because they are not by a long shot they are just anti tax despite the issues with deficit it causes) On the other you seriously do not want your party defined by tea party folks.

However if dems continue this appease the republicans strategy it will cost them BIG in 2010. Reports from Virginia show a general huge amount of apathy in what was assumed to be likely turnouts. If dems cant keep the fire of change going they will see huge losses in 2010.

[nikimcbee]

I've got better things to do tonite, but the looks on the CNN anchor's faces tonite is priceless.:haha:
Oh to be a fly on the wall at the whitehouse tonite.:hmmm:

[mookiemookie]

Well, Nov 3rd, and so far, Virginia has dumped a democratic governor for a republican.

I think that says less about a rejection of liberal policies and more about the fact that if you field a loser of a candidate, don't be surprised when the loser loses.

[CaptainHaplo]

Not "MY" party - I am independant - though I do like seeing people waking up for once.

[Sea Demon]

I think that says less about a rejection of liberal policies and more about the fact that if you field a loser of a candidate, don't be surprised when the loser loses.

I believe it says an awful lot about the view that the liberal policies that have been proposed in this country have been totally rejected. Those policies have failed. From the clunkers program, to the actual numbers being projected from liberal healthcare proposals, the quadrupling of the deficits in less than one year, to the fumbling on the war. These elections represent people(independants/dem moderates/lukewarm Republicans) who have seen liberal policies in action, and are making the statement that they want a different direction. Read the polls lately? They indicate most people think this country has gone completely off the track.

The good thing here is that the Democrats go one of two ways from here. They arrogantly continue to pursue radical policies that continue to harm their political reputations, and build further angst against them in future elections. Or they moderate themselves and forget the healthcare junk, and huge spending packages to try to save their skins next go. Either way, liberals lose.

Edited to add: Just got done reading all the comments here. Nice POV's. Haplo is correct. People of all stripes are looking at the issues, not just simple party affiliations. That is a good thing.

[Zachstar]

I disagree. Such a blatant view based on results from flawed candidates in my view does not represent America as a whole.

But I will concede that the current attitude of "cuddle with republicans and blue dogs and somehow profit" needs to change. Again people do not vote dem to get pub. If they want pubs they vote pubs. A 1200 page healthcare bill with a weak ass public option and full of concessions for the insurance industry will not help dems in 2010 unless they get on the ball and start passing measures that have more of an impact now.

The EFCA is still waiting to be passed for instance.

[Zachstar]

Early but it looks like fox has called NY-23 for Owens and it looks like the other one may go dem as well.

That will be a big one for the GOP to chew on.

Ok confirmed that Hoffman has conceded. Congrats dems on salvaging the night. However we need to remember to stop running weak ass candidates and blue dogs and expect repubs to vote dem for just that reason.

Edit: NY-23 has gone dem. And given a pretty bad defeat to the tea party crowd. In my opinion the GOP needs to stop letting tea party folks define their party.

[GoldenRivet]

next stop:

Congress.:salute:

[Zachstar]

next stop:

Congress.:salute:

A bit early to call officially but I would say dems took both major elections. The NY-23 one being the biggest because of its special circumstances.

Dems got a lesson on running bad candidates that are deep in controversy or bad mouth mainstream Dem ideas.

Repubs got their first major taste of letting tea party folks define their party and lost seats. That is a recoverable defeat but a pretty serious one because they have to learn to calm them down.

If is official and dems took those seats I would say a slight win for dems tonight tho I say again SLIGHT. Only because we can easily stop trying to cuddle to blue dogs.


OK Its been called! CA10 has been called for Jogn Garamendi! 2 seats in the house is no small potatoes! But we could have easilly avoided the 2 state defeats by not acting like a bunch of idiots.

[Sea Demon]

I disagree. Such a blatant view based on results from flawed candidates in my view does not represent America as a whole.

But I will concede that the current attitude of "cuddle with republicans and blue dogs and somehow profit" needs to change. Again people do not vote dem to get pub. If they want pubs they vote pubs. A 1200 page healthcare bill with a weak ass public option and full of concessions for the insurance industry will not help dems in 2010 unless they get on the ball and start passing measures that have more of an impact now.

The EFCA is still waiting to be passed for instance.


It's actually going top be uphill now for any real liberal policy. The one thing that is going to totally rip apart the dem majority is the economy. People are seriously worried about that, and things are getting worse...not better. Projected unemployment (from the White House) actually is worse than what they originally estimated. We've had some of their economic water carriers calling 10% unemployment the "new norm". Seriously, that doesn't inspire anyone, and admits the flaw. And democrats have been pursuing policies which negatively affect business growth. They are not providing any incentive for growth with the amount of control they have attempted to wrestle away from private sector interests. From forced bailouts, to control of pay issues, it is a disaster. Simply put..with these Democrats in control, it has not been a good business environment. Investors know that. Companies are not taking risks, and expanding operations. That bodes terrible for next year for Democrats. Next year's elections will be here before you know it.

And as GR says, it's time to go after Congress. This is only the first stop.

[Zachstar]

People are not suddenly going to forget about Bush. And if your view was true we would have lost those 2 fed races tonight.

And the investment situation is more due to the lack of willingness from bailed out banks to give loans and the fear of bubbles. Unemployment is still due to the shock of the recession

You know what is funny tho? Dems are talking just like you. Trumpting thoughts like double dip recession and the like.. WTF are dems going to gain from an economic collaspse? Do some of these environmentalist dummies relize that in a serious economic collapse environmentalism will be thrown out the window as people burn what they can to keep warm and keep power?

[Sea Demon]

People are not suddenly going to forget about Bush. And if your view was true we would have lost those 2 fed races tonight.

People certainly aren't going to forget about the menace currently in the White House now. Bush is gone. Everything going on now is on Obama. This pile of rubble belongs to him and the Democrats in Congress. And with the quadrupling of the deficit and other major problems...they have made things much worse.

And the investment situation is more due to the lack of willingness from bailed out banks to give loans and the fear of bubbles. Unemployment is still due to the shock of the recession


That's certainly a part of it. But people also understand what role government has played into that issue. And it's big. There are people and companies that already have the capital in place but won't expand operations due to the business climate. While there is alot of blame to go around, blame won't fix the economy just so Democrats can be elected next November. Sorry but this growing unemployment problem is simply unacceptable. And businesses are certainly not going to take capital risks with Obama in the White House demonizing businesses, demonizing the capitalist system, proposing tax increases, ending tax incentives for growth, hiring pro-chavez/Mao loving economic czars, and making enemies lists.

[Zachstar]

Several who decided to show up on the news networks to talk about how this is a refrendum or warning to the president and a win to the tea party folks were utterly defeated on air after results came in on the 2 fed elections.

Note for next time... Wait until it is all over before you make such silly generalization we dems can just as easily say that our two fed wins tonight are a note of victory to the white house.

[Sea Demon]

Note for next time... Wait until it is all over before you make such silly generalization we dems can just as easily say that our two fed wins tonight are a note of victory to the white house.

Yeah, except there are trends leading away from this. Especially the indeciseveness on the war, and the souring economy and unemployment. Tonight was huge for the GOP. The fact that Hoffman was within 3 points with Republicans still giving Scozzafave 5 points has to tell you something. Especially as Hoffman wasn't a GOP candidate. And Owens certainly won't vote like a liberal in that district. At any rate, I believe Owens won't last long in that seat.

[Zachstar]

Except for the string of dem wins in Pa in other areas.

Seriously just move on to 2010 as tonight changes nothing the 2 govs will not vote on healthcare. The war is up to Obama. etc.. etc..

Now I will say this. If we look at this as an assumed victory in 2010 dems will get pummeled. They've got to get healthcare to a vote soon and get some of this backlog though and do something besides parties and patting on the back.

[Sea Demon]

Except for the string of dem wins in Pa in other areas.

Seriously just move on to 2010 as tonight changes nothing the 2 govs will not vote on healthcare. The war is up to Obama. etc.. etc..

Now I will say this. If we look at this as an assumed victory in 2010 dems will get pummeled. They've got to get healthcare to a vote soon and get some of this backlog though and do something besides parties and patting on the back.

Healthcare is already going to the back burner. It's nowhere near going for a vote. Dude, with the war continuing, Gitmo still in operation, and the public option in healthcare going down the tubes (and Democrats themselves are destroying it), the Democrats have abandoned you.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=8987651&pid=4380645

These people in the Democrat party can read the tea leaves. Tonight shows a shift of independants to the GOP in these major races. And a trend for more shifts in the future if the economy doesn't turn around with a significant shift in jobs. False artificially generated consumer demand (like in clunkers) don't seem to be a good answer. Democrats will actually have to grow jobs the old fashioned way. And I'm not sure they can or will do that. Liberals won't allow for it. Remember the old liberal axiom of the "tyranny of the corporation"? "Obscene profits"? "corporate crooks"? etc?

[Tribesman]

moving beyond the letter beside the name, and looking at the ISSUES.
Maybe that explains Hoffmans loss.
After all he didn't really have a big letter beside the name and did display an incredible amount of ignorance on many issues he was questioned about.
Actually when it came to ignorance he really is a match for Palin, no wonder she supported him.

[CaptainHaplo]

Oh - we didn't loose all 4 of the "major" fights - so we actually won. When the last election was a sweep for D's - and now people pay attention and its a split - as well as Maine DEFEATING gay marriage (its now lost in 31 of 31 states!), you can spin it all you want. The reality is, people are paying attention.

As for "weak candidates" Corzine was governor for two terms in NJ - he was well known, and got booted because he made 2 mistakes - he didn't solve the problems facing his state, and when called on the carpet for it, he blamed Bush. So the guy who got elected twice was somehow a "weak" candidate.

Oh - in NY - a democrat and republican join forces - the republican drops out at the last minute - and the democrat has a close race with a non D/R candidate. This shows its not about the letter anymore - and regardless of your stance, you have to like that, unless you want government to have a free hand without answering to the people.

[AngusJS]

So the Republicans lost northern New York, one of the reddest areas in the Northeast, that has basically been Republican since 1871, yet this counts as a win because they won two governor's seats? :rotfl2:

Governors don't make national policy. Congressmen do. Next you'll be going down to the county level to try and conjure up a Republican victory.

The Democrats could lose in 2010, but this election gives no reason to think so.

[mookiemookie]

And with the quadrupling of the deficit and other major problems...they have made things much worse.

:roll:


According to the Congressional Budget Office’s January 2009 estimate (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9957/01-07-Outlook.pdf) for fiscal year 2009, outlays were projected to be $3,543 billion and revenues were projected to be $2,357 billion, leaving a deficit of $1,186 billion. Keep in mind that these estimates were made before Obama took office, based on existing law and policy, and did not take into account any actions that Obama might implement.
Therefore, unless one thinks that McCain would have somehow or other raised taxes and cut spending (with a Democratic Congress), rather than enacting a stimulus of his own, then a deficit of $1.2 trillion was baked in the cake the day Obama took office. Any suggestion that McCain would have brought in a lower deficit is simply fanciful.

[SteamWake]

The republican running for the NY seat was as liberal if not moreso than his opponent.

[Skybird]

A German newspaper yesterday summed up the political reality in the US nicely. It said something like:

Obama came by the promise to reshape America. Now we see America reshaping Obama.

[AVGWarhawk]

A German newspaper yesterday summed up the political reality in the US nicely. It said something like:

Obama came by the promise to reshape America. Now we see America reshaping Obama.


Very insightful of this writer. :up:

[GoldenRivet]

the thing to be considered is that most of america is fairly center... not far right not far left... but slightly - ever so slightly left or right of center.

You have a leadership model in America that is siding with issues that the majority (depending on the poll you look at anywhere from 65% to 78%) of American's disagree with or are opposed to.

I have said it before... these guys are committing political career suicide by cramming and forcing the issues down the throats of the average middle of the road American.

[Sea Demon]

:roll:According to the Congressional Budget Office’s January 2009 estimate (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9957/01-07-Outlook.pdf) for fiscal year 2009, outlays were projected to be $3,543 billion and revenues were projected to be $2,357 billion, leaving a deficit of $1,186 billion. Keep in mind that these estimates were made before Obama took office, based on existing law and policy, and did not take into account any actions that Obama might implement.
Therefore, unless one thinks that McCain would have somehow or other raised taxes and cut spending (with a Democratic Congress), rather than enacting a stimulus of his own, then a deficit of $1.2 trillion was baked in the cake the day Obama took office. Any suggestion that McCain would have brought in a lower deficit is simply fanciful.



And just what are Democrats doing to fix the budget deficits other than making it much worse. I believe we're looking at an overall deficit increase (projected from new spending and projected healthcare spending) of $11 Trillion. The trends from last night prove that voters aren't going to go for the blame shifting that Democrats are attempting here.

This is Obama's deficits. No way to shake that. Can't shift the blame. The buck stops at the desk of Obama. The more he continues to try and blame others for his failures, the worse it will get for him. Watch and learn.

Anyway mookie, the Democrats have already sold guys like you down the river. You're kind of like an abused wife that's trying to believe it willl get better if you can just hang on. ;)

[mookiemookie]

Anyway mookie, the Democrats have already sold guys like you down the river. You're kind of like an abused wife that's trying to believe it willl get better if you can just hang on. ;)

Whats your alternative? "Moderate is no longer conservative enough for the GOP. Conservative is moderate. Scrawl-with-your-own-feces crazy is conservative. So, essentially, the only way to be fringe on the right is to want to blow stuff up, and even then it depends on what the target is."

[SteamWake]

The problem is that the current administration and its constituants are so far out there to the left in there agenda to 'fundamentally transform america' that by comparison even a middle of the road moderate appears to be a 'bat **** crazy' right winger.

[Sea Demon]

Whats your alternative? "Moderate is no longer conservative enough for the GOP. Conservative is moderate. Scrawl-with-your-own-feces crazy is conservative. So, essentially, the only way to be fringe on the right is to want to blow stuff up, and even then it depends on what the target is."

The alternative is to do things which promote a business environment that creates jobs and stimulates real growth. Not loots the treasury, and threaten the very mechanisms which actually grows our economy. 10% unemployment as "the new norm" is not inspiring as your people have told us. The alternative is to bring people to the table who are realistic on what this government can spend, and what is constitutional for them to do. The alternative is to bring people to the table who don't wish to soak the taxpayer for every little whim of the liberal ideologue. The alternative is to eliminate those who quadruple deficits with close to zero growth. The alternative is to bring people to the table who aren't so indecisive on matters as important as the war. The alternative is to bring people into the fold who's goal is not to turn as many people as they can into government dependants and false self styled "victims" of the "corporation". And I can go on for paragraphs.

Oh, to be sure, there is plenty of alternatives to the big government statism that Democrats gave us last election. The people of this country are resisting it big time. Many alternatives would be better than this current mess that's just getting worse by the day.

[AVGWarhawk]

An ultimatum to Washington was demonstrated yesterday.

[SteamWake]

An ultimatum to Washington was demonstrated yesterday.

For both parties.

But hey its irrelevent evidently.


Hours after urging reporters not to draw sweeping conclusions from Tuesday's gubernatorial elections in New Jersey and Virginia, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs told POLITICO President Barack Obama wasn't even keeping an eye on the results


http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/1109/tuned_out_c3071f29-4d59-43b7-bd9d-60b15b03a038.html

[AVGWarhawk]

Pretending one does not care works sometimes. Obama cares....he demonstrated that by helping in the campaign for the Democrates running.

[mookiemookie]

An ultimatum to Washington was demonstrated yesterday.

Really, now?

In New Jersey, where Republican Christie won with 49% of the vote, 57% of voters in exit polls say they approve of the job Barack Obama is doing. In Virginia, where Republican Bob McDonnell won with 59% of the vote, Obama had a 52% approval rating. That means (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/11/03/2118128.aspx) that, at the very least, a good number of independent voters who voted for a Republican, approve of Obama. Unless you think thousands of people can support right-wing candidates and wild-eyed liberals, these voters think of Obama as what he actually is: a moderate Democrat.

[Sea Demon]

Really, now?

Yes Mookie. The people who voted, many independents, don't like the direction the country is going. The polls show that most people think the country is going too far in the wrong direction. And they're right. The economy is broken, deficits are skyrocketing, business incentive and expansion is risky and unlikely in this environment, and unemployment is steadily high.

The fact that we have an administration in the White House who demonizes people and corporations in the private sector is a clue into the business environment. What you're displaying is that people voted for issues yesterday, not necessarily Obama. But consider these are policies Obama has been pushing hard for. It doesn't mean he's not culpable for his failures, or people won't correctly hold him accountable when the time comes. The clock is ticking there, and only a matter of time.

This early election is merely a trend. A strong one for future prospects. The fact that a Conservative Republican can win in the era of Obama statism in a deep blue area is going to be trouble for Democrats. At the very least, Democrats will have to take that ionto account when liberal ideologues are calling for more taxpayer ripoffs. If you haven't figured it out yet Mookie, the Democrats don't care about you...they care about themselves. Even if you haven't figured it out yet, many moderates in your party are waking up to that fact.

[mookiemookie]

blah blah blah

While your diatribe is wonderful and well crafted, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted.

[AVGWarhawk]

Really, now?

Mookie, a lot approve of what Obama is doing. Even I approve for the most part. The disapproval is with Capital Hill. Look at the approval ratings for Congress. It is lower than whale crap on the ocean floor. The ultimatum is to Capital Hill and not Obama. What I see is a trend of how voters will vote on the next election for Senators and Congressmen. Incumbents are going to have a hard time this go around.

[Sea Demon]

While your diatribe is wonderful and well crafted, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted.

Actually it has everything to do with what you posted. Voters of these states voted against the very things Obama pushes or results in. Higher taxes, more government intrusion, bleak and punitive economic policy that provides for no real growth, etc. And these voters were concerned mostly about issues pertaining to these specific races. This will change once the issues turn to Obama and how he's done with the issues. Right now, I'm not even concerned about Obama specifically. But however you spin it...it's not good for the incumbents next go around. Nor is it good for Obama and other Democrats if they follow the same path.

[SteamWake]

Proof they dont get it.


From our perspective, we won last night," the California Democrat told reporters during a Wednesday photo op. "We had one race that we were engaged in, it was in northern New York, it was a race where a Republican has held the seat since the Civil War. And we won that seat. So, from our standpoint, no, a candidate was victorious who supports health care reform, and his remarks last night said this was a victory for health care reform and other initiatives for the American people."
"From our standpoint, we picked up votes last night," a cheerful Pelosi said, "one in California and one in New York."


http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/Pelosi_dismisses_impact_of_New_Jersey_Virginia.htm l

[GoldenRivet]

She is... always has been... and always will be, an idiot.

[AVGWarhawk]

Some real nice sh!t she is shovelling. Save my watch, it ain't chit proof.

[Onkel Neal]

Very insightful of this writer. :up:

Then... there really is Hope :)

[mookiemookie]

Voters of these states voted against the very things Obama pushes or results in. Higher taxes, more government intrusion, bleak and punitive economic policy that provides for no real growth, etc.

Uh, no. Maine and Washington voters stomped the Taxpayer Bill of Rights, and Maine voters said no to a repeal of auto excise taxes.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/128047.html
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411815_spending03.html

I'd say you're the one spinning it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Uh, no. Maine and Washington voters stomped the Taxpayer Bill of Rights, and Maine voters said no to a repeal of auto excise taxes.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/128047.html
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411815_spending03.html

I'd say you're the one spinning it.


The voting yesterday were in NJ and VA :hmmm: Bill of Rights, auto excise taxes? Maine, Washington? This has little to do with voting a person into office. Specifially when Obama was hitting the brick for the campaign.

[AVGWarhawk]

Then... there really is Hope :)

Yes sir every 4 years. :salute:

[Sea Demon]

Uh, no. Maine and Washington voters stomped the Taxpayer Bill of Rights, and Maine voters said no to a repeal of auto excise taxes.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/128047.html
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411815_spending03.html

I'd say you're the one spinning it.

This is really picking at the fringes here. Anyway, these are separate local issues anyway. These have nothing in common with the national deficit being quadrupled in 9 months, or massive federal spending from big government statism and pork spending with no accountability. One of these even mentions that voters don't think the measure means a mandate to raise taxes. The other is using local taxes as approved by local municipal government, and not have government budgeting run on autopilot. It's a budgeting measure mookie. Not a "tax me to death and make every decision for me" type of thing.

[AngusJS]

She is... always has been... and always will be, an idiot.There were two Congressional elections. The Democrats won both.

Yeah, what a resounding defeat for the Democrats. Too bad they have their heads in the sand so they can't hear the nationwide howls of disapproval. :roll:

For me, voting for a governor means voting for a governor, be he on the left or the right - but voting for a Congressman, especially a Representative, means voting for or against the political program of the majority party. In both elections, that program was approved. And Hoffman, the "real Republican," with his true conservative agenda, lost.

[Sea Demon]

There were two Congressional elections. The Democrats won both.

Yeah, what a resounding defeat for the Democrats. Too bad they have their heads in the sand so they can't hear the nationwide howls of disapproval. :roll:

For me, voting for a governor means voting for a governor, be he on the left or the right - but voting for a Congressman, especially a Representative, means voting for or against the political program of the majority party. In both elections, that program was approved. And Hoffman, the "real Republican," with his true conservative agenda, lost.

Hoffman lost by 3 points after the Republican running in the race dropped out in the last second and still stripped away 5 points. 5 points that lHoffman should have collected. I'll bet that if Scozzafava had dropped out a week earlier, Hoffman would have won. I see you can't see the significance of a "Conservative"(Non-GOP) candidate doing this and why. Doesn't matter anyway. I know Owens knows. This is why I wouldn't expect him to get on the Obama/leftist bandwagon in this district. At any rate, he'll lose the seat. Or he'll keep it as somebody who pleases Republican voters. You know what that means of course.......forget a liberal vote coming out of this district. Either way...liberals lose.

You look to be another Democrat that doesn't realize that the Democrats have all but abandoned you. The war continues, Gitmo is open, and public option health reform is a back burner affair. And Democrats themselves are the ones who've been killing the public option. Now that 3rd party Conservative candidates can be competitive in elections with national significance, and conservative GOP candidates can mop up in heavily Blue states in the "age of Obama", Democrats should understand the tightrope they stand on. I think other than the moron Pelosi, most of them do.

[SteamWake]

Yeah, what a resounding defeat for the Democrats.

Dude, they lost New Freakin Jersy .... by a wide margin.

If NJ aint a democratic / leftest state I dont know of one.

It was in the order of 'when hell freezes over' just a year ago.

[mookiemookie]

The war continues, Gitmo is open, and public option health reform is a back burner affair. And Democrats themselves are the ones who've been killing the public option.

So Democrats lost because they're acting like Republicans. Finally, something I can agree with you on.

And I'd say that's more of an indictment of the right than the left.

[CaptainHaplo]

The reason they lost is they support those initiatives.

After all - Obama, while stumping for Corzine - said he was a "vital partner" in pushing through the administration agenda. So the voters removed a "vital parttner" in that - looks like those voters didn't want the agenda to succeed.

Oh - and I note you totally avoided the gay marriage in Maryland outcome... yet another state and people who vote no on one more liberal agenda item. In case you weren't counting - thats 31 states that have voted in some form on gay marriage - and 31 where the people said no.

Your right... The tax the rich people and corporations into bankruptcy so there are no jobs, while we call gay couples "married" sure has resonated with the people hasn't it? :rotfl2:

With all that spinning your doing, no wonder you want government health care. Your gonna need it just for the motion sickness and dizzyness....

[AVGWarhawk]

So Democrats lost because they're acting like Republicans. Finally, something I can agree with you on.

And I'd say that's more of an indictment of the right than the left.

Only because the Republicans are right :O:

[Sea Demon]

So Democrats lost because they're acting like Republicans. Finally, something I can agree with you on.

And I'd say that's more of an indictment of the right than the left.

Nope. It neither indicts the left or the right. It's just a fact of life for Democrats. The Democrat party understand this country is not a liberal country. The latest poll I saw was people who identify with liberals make up a paltry 20%. Conservatives over 40%. They tried the liberal version of socialist single payer healthcare and look at the anger that drew. It went from that to a worthless/restrictive "public option" in name only. And that's even looking improbable now. And they have quadrupled the deficits.

You got it all backwards. It wouldn't matter to the liberals where they stand. The Democrat party as a whole lost independant voters....and are still losing more. Democrats cannot win without them, and of course Republicans have to find a way to make their voters sit home. Something they have been good at for at least the last 4 years. This election I believe is a trend for somethig else. Don't expect Democrats to actually "act" the way you want them to. It's a losing proposition, and they know it. They're not going to act Republican either. While continuing the war, they are indecisive on it. While keeping Gitmo open, they have no plan due to some harsh realities. And they have killed their own public option. They are doing this to themselves. They need not act like Republicans to abandon voters like you.

[AngusJS]

Hoffman lost by 3 pointsHoffman lost by 4 points.

I'll bet that if Scozzafava had dropped out a week earlier, Hoffman would have won. I see you can't see the significance of a "Conservative"(Non-GOP) candidate doing this and why.A conservative candidate who had the backing of Pataki and Gulianni (and Palin, dontcha know), running for a seat vacated by a Republican who had kept it for 17 years in a heavily conservative district, lost. You can't see the significance of the continued self-mortification of the Republican party, attacking their own during an election for not being conservative enough.

Doesn't matter anyway. I know Owens knows. This is why I wouldn't expect him to get on the Obama/leftist bandwagon in this district. At any rate, he'll lose the seat. Or he'll keep it as somebody who pleases Republican voters. You know what that means of course.......forget a liberal vote coming out of this district. Either way...liberals lose.You're spinning faster than a pulsar. By your logic the Democrats shouldn't have even tried to win the election. It'd be great if the Republicans would adopt this strategy in Democratic districts next time.

You look to be another Democrat that doesn't realize that the Democrats have all but abandoned you. The war continues, Gitmo is open, and public option health reform is a back burner affair.That's why there are public options in both the House and Senate versions of the bill?

And I kinda expected the Afghan war to continue, and accepted that, as did most Democrats.

Now that 3rd party Conservative candidates can be competitive in elections with national significanceread: Now that 3rd party Conservative candidates can split the Republican vote in elections with national significance...

[AngusJS]

Dude, they lost New Freakin Jersy .... by a wide margin.

If NJ aint a democratic / leftest state I dont know of one.

It was in the order of 'when hell freezes over' just a year ago.Counting acting governors, New Jersey has had 8 Democratic governors...and 8 Republican governors since 1947. The last Republican was in 2002. It's hardly as if Republicans just can't win in NJ, and any success must mean some ideological shift in the voting population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_New_Jersey

But more importantly for the national stage: since 1948, NJ has voted for the presidential candidate of the governor's party 9 times, and voted against that candidate 6 times. I don't see much of a trend there, certainly not enough of one to justify the predictions of doom the Republicans are giving.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_election_result s_by_state

What you guys are doing is trying to project national significance onto one gubernatorial race, which is just silly.

[Platapus]

What you guys are doing is trying to project national significance onto one gubernatorial race, which is just silly.


:yep:

As Sigmund Freud once said: "Sometimes a gubernatorial race is just a gubernatorial race."

:D

[AVGWarhawk]

:yep:

As Sigmund Freud once said: "Sometimes a gubernatorial race is just a gubernatorial race."

:D

Freud needed psychological help himself. :O: