Need advice: Night Surface Attack for cowards.

[Platapus]

I started yet another career. 94% realism (still have to keep that fuel at unlimited). This is my first career with totally manual plotting and so far it has been a frustrating challenge, but that's what sims are supposed to be.

In the past, I have shunned night surface attacks because I am a craven coward (they don't call me the Joe Besser of Kaluens for nothing). But I would like to get into night surface attacks.

I play DiD for the most part so that makes me a little less heroic. There are old Kaluens, and bold Kaluens but very few old bold Kaluens.

Let's start out with a lone Merchant. In a Type VIIc, on a dark night clear with some moon, how close can you get before taking deck gun fire? Is it reasonable to get within 1,000 meters?

Once you have launched your torpedoes, what is a good way to turn in such a way to avoid being spotted. Approaching a ship bow-on leaves a small silhouette but once I turn won't they see me and try to hurt me? :wah:

Using GWX and OLC do you use the periscope for surface night attacks or is it mostly eyeballing it through the Uzo?

If there is an escort, do you shoot the escort first or is a surface night attack not recommended if there is an escort?

I usually don't mess with escorted convoys but I would like to learn some techniques for attacking, but much more importantly, surviving convoys.

[Freiwillige]

I started yet another career. 94% realism (still have to keep that fuel at unlimited). This is my first career with totally manual plotting and so far it has been a frustrating challenge, but that's what sims are supposed to be.

In the past, I have shunned night surface attacks because I am a craven coward (they don't call me the Joe Besser of Kaluens for nothing). But I would like to get into night surface attacks.

I play DiD for the most part so that makes me a little less heroic. There are old Kaluens, and bold Kaluens but very few old bold Kaluens.

Let's start out with a lone Merchant. In a Type VIIc, on a dark night clear with some moon, how close can you get before taking deck gun fire? Is it reasonable to get within 1,000 meters?

You can get very close usually:up: But you must be cautious. Go decks awash first and keep your speed down for less wake, You can go a bit just not flank or ahead full. Under 1,500 meters it should be 1/3rd. Keep your nose relatively on them say 20 or so degrees off center.


Once you have launched your torpedoes, what is a good way to turn in such a way to avoid being spotted. Approaching a ship bow-on leaves a small silhouette but once I turn won't they see me and try to hurt me? :wah:

I just sit and wait for the torps to do their job:salute:

If they fail ahead flank and cut one way or another and keep turning to get your ass at them!:ping: Then zig zag at 20 left then 20 right always showing them your ass!

Using GWX and OLC do you use the periscope for surface night attacks or is it mostly eyeballing it through the Uzo?

Uzo or torpedo plotting map and do it from there!

If there is an escort, do you shoot the escort first or is a surface night attack not recommended if there is an escort?

If there is an escort ....only shoot if you have a sure shot! And it better be a convoy otherwise just do an undersurface attack.

I usually don't mess with escorted convoys but I would like to learn some techniques for attacking, but much more importantly, surviving convoys.




Get in front of convoy. Go decks awash, try to approach between lead escort and side escort. Use common sense go slow and don't panic!Manouver quietly into center of convoy then let all hell loose and crash dive!

[teg916]

Depends on how dark the night is. On really dark nights you can get real close. I have approached to less than 500 meters without being spotted at 1/3 speed. If it is not too dark (you can see stars or the moon is up) you are probably ok at 1000 meters but I would not try much closer.

I usually approach with decks awash, launch my torpedoes, then dive to periscope depth to watch them hit. You are taking a pretty big risk if there is an escort and you stay on the surface. I don't care how dark it is outside, once those star shells go up you are pretty easy to spot. The spot lights will get you too.

[TarJak]

Let's start out with a lone Merchant. In a Type VIIc, on a dark night clear with some moon, how close can you get before taking deck gun fire? Is it reasonable to get within 1,000 meters?
Do not approach any armed merchantmen on the surface! This is a recipe for a short life. I've been as close as 400m on the surface without being spotted but conditions have to be right for that to happen, you have to be decks awash and you cannot go faster than a couple of knots in your approach.


Once you have launched your torpedoes, what is a good way to turn in such a way to avoid being spotted. Approaching a ship bow-on leaves a small silhouette but once I turn won't they see me and try to hurt me? :wah: I usually turn to run parallel with the target and man the deck gun in case the torpedoes miss or the ship doesn't go down immediately. I usually get to aroun 1000m fire torps, make the turn and fully surface at about that range. Depending on the result of the torpedo hits I either spark up the DG or carry on my merry way.


Using GWX and OLC do you use the periscope for surface night attacks or is it mostly eyeballing it through the Uzo?I moslty use the Uzo once I have the data I need and have set the TDC up for the shot. I sometimes use the scope if the sea is rough and using the uzo is made difficult.


If there is an escort, do you shoot the escort first or is a surface night attack not recommended if there is an escort?I never take out the escorts first. If I attack and escorted convoy on the surface I fire then turn tail and speed up to standard to get as much distance between me and them before the torps go up. Once they hit I speed up to flank and then depending on their reaction either submerge to about 200m or keep going to clear at flank until I'm not getting chased any more. (Option 2 rearly happens).


I usually don't mess with escorted convoys but I would like to learn some techniques for attacking, but much more importantly, surviving convoys.The approach is all important whether attacking on the surface or submerged. Keep slow and silent as possible and try to set up an approach at about 45deg to the path of the convoy. A bit of rough eather is your friend when attacking on the surface and always wait until moonset or before moonrise to make your attacks. I have had escorts pass at me at around 800m without seeing me on the surface so it can be done if you are quiet and careful. Always be ready to hit flank and dive. I almost never use the C key and got to flank forst for a moment or two before htting the D key and then setting the depth of the dive once I'm safely underwater. Once I hit about 100m I go silent then drift down to about 200m. I rarely need to take evasive action once in that position as if you move away from where the torpedoes were fired you have immediately made their search for you much harder.

[Captain Nemo]

Here's a post I did some time ago that illustrates a night surface attack and how close you can get without being detected. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149501

Nemo

[Snestorm]

I usualy have my range preset to 1000 meters, so that's where I try to get. It can definately get scarey getting that close, and hopefuly not closer.
800 meters is the optimum shot but, it's pushing your luck beyond the max.

My approach is usualy at full (45 degrees off his bow).
If it's a "beautiful night" I'll drop to slow prematurely.
If the weather is with me, I'll drop speed to slow just over 2000 meters, shortly followed by a drop to 2 knots (JUST over the 2000 meter mark). After that never let your nose lead him by over 30 degrees.

The best way to turn (after firing), is not at all. This is one reason why I give big targets 3 torpedoes.
Spotting a gun mount, and knowing, you'll be the target if he doesn't go down, can get tense.

Periscope attack? On a dark night? That just won't do.

Evade the escort. Attack the merchant.
"Be more aggressive!" Just kidding.

[Hitman]

The main problem with night surface attacks is, as already said here, that the hell breaks loose when your first torpedo hits. Starflares, reflectors, and everything lights the zone up as in daytime, and then the merchants start shooting at you with too good accurancy. In real life accounts I have readed, the Kaleuns were able to steer out into the darkness again quite fast, but in the game the enemy pinpoints you for illumination with flares and reflectors with incredible accurancy. I have therefore tweaked my UZO interface for attacks at a slightly larger distance, 1000-2000 metres depending on the size of the ship, and I always attack from outside and turn 180º and hit flank speed after releasing the torpedoes. With a bit of luck, when they impact you might be far enough to prevent being located inmediately with flares and reflectors.

[Commander Gizmo]

You might also consider full reverse. If you back away, your nose is still pointed right at him. You can get quite a bit of distance there while the torpedo is running and if all else fails you have your deck gun pointed right where it needs to be. The downside to this is of course diving; Diving backwards is not the recommended way to get down fast and you have won't have time to start moving forward again once under.