How about 3-d damage assesment?

[oscar19681]

no more 2-d damage-screen. Why not go throught the interieur and move your mouse over for example the hydrophone and it will say hydropone damaged . Estemated repair 5 minutes

[oscar19681]

Sorry forgot 3-d damage assesment only in the poll

[Sailor Steve]

Real life: the captain doesn't go all through the ship checking for damage - his crew report to him.

Game: Doing it as you describe would involve walking through the entire boat after every engagement, clicking every single piece of equipment. Realism issues aside, I would hate to have to do that.

[JU_88]

Real life: the captain doesn't go all through the ship checking for damage - his crew report to him.

Game: Doing it as you describe would involve walking through the entire boat after every engagement, clicking every single piece of equipment. Realism issues aside, I would hate to have to do that.

^^This.

[karamazovnew]

I voted for 3d only. But I don't want to see some health bar or percentage over the equipment. I want to ask the crew. Some parts were considered unrepairable only after days of toiling. So unless an engine is completely blown up I don't want to see "unrepairable" after 5 seconds.
:hmmm: And I'm not sure why we can only repair one piece of equipment at one time. I'd like to have damage assesment when i talk to the crew, as dialogue choices, not as a diagram.
Kaleun: "Chief, damage report!"
Chief runs through the boat and comes back sweating: "Water leaking in the bow compartment, we have leaking batteries, there was a fire in the galley but we managed to put it out, and we have a dislodged torpedo in the aft section that fell on a noob. He's hurt, the medic's looking after him. Also the left electric engine isn't working".
Kaleun: "Contain the leak and fix the batteries asap. Take all the men you need. The engine can wait."
Kaleun walks to a sailor in the CR: "You, fix that bulb, it's flikering too much!"
Then he goes to the bow section and asks another sailor: "How's the progress?"
Sailor: "Almost done sir, 5 more minutes or so".
Kaleun goes back and asks another: "How's the wounded sailor?"
Sailor: "No idea sir"
Kaleun:"Then go there and bloody find out!!! After that go help with the engine repair."

The schematics of the sub could be use as a minigame to speed up repairs with the risk of busting the sub for good :haha:.

[mookiemookie]

^^This.

Yup.

[LiveGoat]

I would love this:up: But that's because I'm a masochist.:)

I voted for 3d only. But I don't want to see some health bar or percentage over the equipment. I want to ask the crew. Some parts were considered unrepairable only after days of toiling. So unless an engine is completely blown up I don't want to see "unrepairable" after 5 seconds.
:hmmm: And I'm not sure why we can only repair one piece of equipment at one time. I'd like to have damage assesment when i talk to the crew, as dialogue choices, not as a diagram.
Kaleun: "Chief, damage report!"
Chief runs through the boat and comes back sweating: "Water leaking in the bow compartment, we have leaking batteries, there was a fire in the galley but we managed to put it out, and we have a dislodged torpedo in the aft section that fell on a noob. He's hurt, the medic's looking after him. Also the left electric engine isn't working".
Kaleun: "Contain the leak and fix the batteries asap. Take all the men you need. The engine can wait."
Kaleun walks to a sailor in the CR: "You, fix that bulb, it's flikering too much!"
Then he goes to the bow section and asks another sailor: "How's the progress?"
Sailor: "Almost done sir, 5 more minutes or so".
Kaleun goes back and asks another: "How's the wounded sailor?"
Sailor: "No idea sir"
Kaleun:"Then go there and bloody find out!!! After that go help with the engine repair."

The schematics of the sub could be use as a minigame to speed up repairs with the risk of busting the sub for good :haha:.

[Highbury]

As a Captain you would get reports, those would be marked on a 2D chart. Seeing some visible damage would be great, but damage charts are 2D in real life, then and now.

[Lt.Fillipidis]

I voted for 3d only. But I don't want to see some health bar or percentage over the equipment. I want to ask the crew. Some parts were considered unrepairable only after days of toiling. So unless an engine is completely blown up I don't want to see "unrepairable" after 5 seconds.
:hmmm: And I'm not sure why we can only repair one piece of equipment at one time. I'd like to have damage assesment when i talk to the crew, as dialogue choices, not as a diagram.
Kaleun: "Chief, damage report!"
Chief runs through the boat and comes back sweating: "Water leaking in the bow compartment, we have leaking batteries, there was a fire in the galley but we managed to put it out, and we have a dislodged torpedo in the aft section that fell on a noob. He's hurt, the medic's looking after him. Also the left electric engine isn't working".
Kaleun: "Contain the leak and fix the batteries asap. Take all the men you need. The engine can wait."
Kaleun walks to a sailor in the CR: "You, fix that bulb, it's flikering too much!"
Then he goes to the bow section and asks another sailor: "How's the progress?"
Sailor: "Almost done sir, 5 more minutes or so".
Kaleun goes back and asks another: "How's the wounded sailor?"
Sailor: "No idea sir"
Kaleun:"Then go there and bloody find out!!! After that go help with the engine repair."

The schematics of the sub could be use as a minigame to speed up repairs with the risk of busting the sub for good :haha:.

In addition to all this, i'd like to hear random screams/yelling/cursing at random times, not only canned sound files that get triggered by stuff.
Also, a wounded man in SH3 does eventually regenerate. IRL wounded men sometimes died.

[GoldenRivet]

Real life: the captain doesn't go all through the ship checking for damage - his crew report to him.

Game: Doing it as you describe would involve walking through the entire boat after every engagement, clicking every single piece of equipment. Realism issues aside, I would hate to have to do that.

agreed :up:

especially when there is a lot of critical damage and seconds count... my crew should know what needs to be done, and they should do it with or without my orders

[Akula4745]

Real life: the captain doesn't go all through the ship checking for damage - his crew report to him.

Game: Doing it as you describe would involve walking through the entire boat after every engagement, clicking every single piece of equipment. Realism issues aside, I would hate to have to do that.

Ditto!

[momo55]

On the frigate i served on (late 70's) i was the petty officer of the N.B.C.D. (D stands for Damage control ) section and my station was in the C.C.S. (central control station) . I had a console where i could open/close valves ...activate sprinklers ...etc etc ..and had plottingpannels at the wall . I was in connection by headset with the 3 fire/damage teams forward- middel and afther of the ship.

The officer (technician) behind me supervised all ( next to me where machines- and electrician consoles ) and gave the orders through me at the damage contol teams . And he informed the skipper of the status of his ship .

Don't know how it worked on a sub (Uboot) in the 40's ..but in "das boot" it isn't the kaleun who is taking charge of the repairs ..


Soo i agree with Sailor Steve...

sry for my poor Englisch ;)

[Seeadler]

...but in "das boot" it isn't the kaleun who is taking charge of the repairs
It's the LI (Leitender Ingeniuer = Chief Engineer).
The Kaleun receives only the damage reports, the repair and the disposition of the repair crew is in the responsibility of the LI.

So if it should to be done correct in the game, then you see as player (if you can only play the Kaleun!) only the damage reports, how long the repair will be and what is repaired and where. Everything else must take care of the AI ...no clickable 2D/3D screens for the player as in SH3/4, only a info screen ;)

[iambecomelife]

I voted for 3d only. But I don't want to see some health bar or percentage over the equipment. I want to ask the crew. Some parts were considered unrepairable only after days of toiling. So unless an engine is completely blown up I don't want to see "unrepairable" after 5 seconds.
:hmmm: And I'm not sure why we can only repair one piece of equipment at one time. I'd like to have damage assesment when i talk to the crew, as dialogue choices, not as a diagram.
Kaleun: "Chief, damage report!"
Chief runs through the boat and comes back sweating: "Water leaking in the bow compartment, we have leaking batteries, there was a fire in the galley but we managed to put it out, and we have a dislodged torpedo in the aft section that fell on a noob. He's hurt, the medic's looking after him. Also the left electric engine isn't working".
Kaleun: "Contain the leak and fix the batteries asap. Take all the men you need. The engine can wait."
Kaleun walks to a sailor in the CR: "You, fix that bulb, it's flikering too much!"
Then he goes to the bow section and asks another sailor: "How's the progress?"
Sailor: "Almost done sir, 5 more minutes or so".
Kaleun goes back and asks another: "How's the wounded sailor?"
Sailor: "No idea sir"
Kaleun:"Then go there and bloody find out!!! After that go help with the engine repair."

The schematics of the sub could be use as a minigame to speed up repairs with the risk of busting the sub for good :haha:.

That would be awesome! Although to avoid having a lot of dialogue & tons of wav files, it would be interesting if the damage assessment was done through a combo of text menus and crew animations. Once you order someone to give a damage report:

Damage Level 1: Engineer walks up to you holding a wrench. "Herr Kaleun, we took a beating but we'll be up in no time." Cue a menu opening up with various items of minor damage.

Damage Level 2: Engineer walks up to you dirty & soaking wet. "Herr Kaleun, those escorts worked us over good - this is going to take a while. Menu opens up with moderate flooding, fuel leaks, a damaged TT, etc.

Damage Level 3: Engineer enters command room coughing on gas from ruptured batteries, wet from head to toe, with singed clothes. "I'm not sure we're going to make it, sir - this is really bad." Menu opens up with heavy flooding, fire, smashed equipment, etc.

Damage Level 4, plus injuries: Engineer bursts into the command room, staggering & choking, supported by another crewmember, covered in oily water, with burned clothing. Smoke pours through the opened hatch behind them. Gasps, "We gotta act NOW, Sir!" Menu opens up with a laundry list of bad news - fire, massive hull breach, gas buildup, dead or injured men, &c.

This is just four lines of dialogue and four animation routines, but much more likely to "grab" the player than a simple 2d menu alone. Maybe 3-4 phrases for each damage level could be added to improve variety, but you get the idea. It makes for a dramatic situation without having to have wav files detailing every possible type of damage.

[Sledgehammer427]

and let's keep the damage reports limited to what we know and can see.

Imagine coming up to the bridge to discover your UZO missing, or a flak gun bent and twisted.

I'd pay double for that

[Payoff]

That would be awesome! Although to avoid having a lot of dialogue & tons of wav files, it would be interesting if the damage assessment was done through a combo of text menus and crew animations. Once you order someone to give a damage report:

Damage Level 1: Engineer walks up to you holding a wrench. "Herr Kaleun, we took a beating but we'll be up in no time." Cue a menu opening up with various items of minor damage.

Damage Level 2: Engineer walks up to you dirty & soaking wet. "Herr Kaleun, those escorts worked us over good - this is going to take a while. Menu opens up with moderate flooding, fuel leaks, a damaged TT, etc.

Damage Level 3: Engineer enters command room coughing on gas from ruptured batteries, wet from head to toe, with singed clothes. "I'm not sure we're going to make it, sir - this is really bad." Menu opens up with heavy flooding, fire, smashed equipment, etc.

Damage Level 4, plus injuries: Engineer bursts into the command room, staggering & choking, supported by another crewmember, covered in oily water, with burned clothing. Smoke pours through the opened hatch behind them. Gasps, "We gotta act NOW, Sir!" Menu opens up with a laundry list of bad news - fire, massive hull breach, gas buildup, dead or injured men, &c.

This is just four lines of dialogue and four animation routines, but much more likely to "grab" the player than a simple 2d menu alone. Maybe 3-4 phrases for each damage level could be added to improve variety, but you get the idea. It makes for a dramatic situation without having to have wav files detailing every possible type of damage.

:up: This is a great idea. Hope the devs see this one.


Payoff

[TarJak]

Steve's point is as usual very valid. IABL's ideas are great. The one thing is a must is the ability to manage more than one damaged compartment at a time as you would in RL.

Having crew fix the leaks in the compartment they are assigned to and then move onto the less urgent damage as well as being able to assign additional crew to work on a specific job would be great as well.

Frankly I don't care whether the interface is 2D or 3D but managing more than one job at a time is something that would be worth having.

Of course splitting the resources would mean that the job of fixing takes longer.

[JScones]

Real life: the captain doesn't go all through the ship checking for damage - his crew report to him.

Game: Doing it as you describe would involve walking through the entire boat after every engagement, clicking every single piece of equipment. Realism issues aside, I would hate to have to do that.
Exactly! I'm the Kaleun - I have 50 other guys to tell me what's wrong.

Sometimes I wonder if people want a submarine simulation or a bloody XBOX game!

[sabretwo]

I agree with the ability to assign different teams to damage mitigation in different compartments at the same time.

More important than having a dialogue with the crew about repairs or seeing missing UZOs, I'd like to see the crew working on the repairs...bucket brigade fishing out water from compartments, ankle deep water in adjacent compartments, tired looking mechanics at work with wrenches in hand,

[GoldenRivet]

i would say that it would be important to SEE the damage in the 3D environment.

however - addressing the repairs should be through the 2D interface we are all used to.

[kapitan_zur_see]

Cannot be more than happy to see this thread!!! :arrgh!:
It's been quite a time I've been saying damages, repairing and the tense situations that go with it makes up for an enormous immersion factor, memorable gameplay moments and etc. :up::up::up:

[Jimbuna]

Quite happy to continue with the already tried and accepted 2D screen.

What really would appeal to me is TarJaks idea of repairing more than one compartment at a time by splitting resources and incurring additional time penalties.

[Snestorm]

It's the LI (Leitender Ingeniuer = Chief Engineer).
The Kaleun receives only the damage reports, the repair and the disposition of the repair crew is in the responsibility of the LI.

So if it should to be done correct in the game, then you see as player (if you can only play the Kaleun!) only the damage reports, how long the repair will be and what is repaired and where. Everything else must take care of the AI ...no clickable 2D/3D screens for the player as in SH3/4, only a info screen ;)

I'm with Seeadler on this one. 100%!

[subvers4]

Quite happy to continue with the already tried and accepted 2D screen.

What really would appeal to me is TarJaks idea of repairing more than one compartment at a time by splitting resources and incurring additional time penalties.

Jimbuna has it spot on, for me at least. :up:

[kapitan_zur_see]

Jimbuna has it spot on, for me at least. :up:

I second that! no more "one thing at a time"

[Sailor Steve]

I like IABL's and TarJak's ideas as well.

I agree with the ability to assign different teams to damage mitigation in different compartments at the same time.

More important than having a dialogue with the crew about repairs or seeing missing UZOs, I'd like to see the crew working on the repairs...bucket brigade fishing out water from compartments, ankle deep water in adjacent compartments, tired looking mechanics at work with wrenches in hand,
Yes, being able to split the damage control is a great idea. One man trained in DC should be able to take three or four others with him and tell them what to do.

I just want to point out that the UZO should never be on the bridge at all, unless called for during an attack. The binocular part of the UZO was not waterproof.

[Jimbuna]

Quite happy to continue with the already tried and accepted 2D screen.

What really would appeal to me is TarJaks idea of repairing more than one compartment at a time by splitting resources and incurring additional time penalties.

Jimbuna has it spot on, for me at least. :up:

Right Dan...that settles it then http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/greywolftail.gif

[kptn_kaiserhof]

i got a great idea if its a 2d interface like in sh4 make it like you 50 odd men you have a damage repeir team but this time not one make 10 drt slots but you can put as many or as few men in each team


man selection style like in red alert (create a box around them drag and drop)

what you think

[Kaleun_Endrass]

man selection style like in red alert (create a box around them drag and drop)
That would mean the men you want as a team would have to be already displayed in right order to create that box. Otherwise you would have to create multiple boxes like file selection with ctrl in windows explorer.

[Donkey-Shot]

As the commander of a sub, it doesn't seem likely to me: that you micromanage the repairs. The DC-party/engineer should keep you posted of what's damaged and how long repair(s) will take.

Your concern and responsibility as the commander is the tactical situation.
You should base your tactical decissions on the damage reports the crew gives you, but the crew should bloody well be able to do the repairs without being told to.

I don't want to tell my chief enigener that, while submerged, fixing leaks and busted pipes have a bit higher priority than fixing any damaged equipment I'm not going to need until I re-surface. The chief engineer is the techincal expert on board, he should be telling me what needs the be done where repairs are concerned. I do want the ability to override his descisions if I disagree. But the LI, the DC and the whole crew should be fully compitent in doing this stuff whitout being told by me. Arent they trained to do that at submarine school?

I cannot imagine a sailor on a damaged sub just idly standing by, while all hell is breaking loose and water is flooding in everywhere, simply because I didnt assign him to a damage control slot in the DC screen (something I wanna see removed from that screen).

[thesarunat]

Question? Why do we need a "repair team" at all ?
Wouldn't it be easier if each crew member could perform a "function" in the room he is in?
I mean: front torpedo room, place for 20 people max.
You just sunk a lone merchant, you are not in a hurry, so 10 mens are reloading tube 1. The others, you told them to rest a little. Click on them and set their status to: off duty.
A few minutes later a plane catches you off guard and damages your sub while you are crash diving, opening a leak in the torpedo room. As you order the dive, the ten men at rest wake up and start repairing the leak, but you cannot order other people there because there is a limit of 20 in that room.
You then could decide to order everybody out there, and dispatch your best repairmen there, by moving them in that room and telling them to repair it.
My thought is that you have to be somewhere, before you can do something... :rotfl2:

[Snestorm]

I'm in full agreement with Donkey-Shot here.
The LI should be micro-managing DC efforts, not me.

[Safe-Keeper]

My compromise:
- Keep 2d damage control screen.
- Implement damage textures and effects, elaborating on what we already have in SHIII (broken gauges etc.).
- As I've suggested earlier, implement as a realism setting that damage reports take time to arrive, as they would in reality. You first receive a message a compartment or component has been hit, then have to wait for the damage report.
- I'd have nothing against seeing the damage status of a system or gauge or whatever as I moused over it.

[MRV]

I'm in full agreement with Donkey-Shot here.
The LI should be micro-managing DC efforts, not me.


Same for me. There should be the ability to take over control manually. Something like the autocrew feature in DW would do it, if you feel like you need damage handled in another way, you simply allocate a few men by yourself....but you know that too many men in the forward torpedo room will trim your boat heavy to the bow.... ;-)

[Onkel Neal]

Great first post, Adil Mania. Welcome aboard Subsim.

[Dowly]

Welcome aboard, Adil Mania. :salute:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I wouldn't want to see a damage screen at all.

I would just want to be informed in person by my chief engeneer, who would come to my face and SAY what's damage, whats the conditions. And exactly like you ask the nav officer for "time to course end", you would ask your chief for "time to fix damaged batteries" and he would estimate a time, not precisely. I would like him to say something like "one hour, maybe two, herr keleun".

I would like SH5 to give us the option of operating everything thru orders (voice), without any dials on screen. I want to see the sub as it is, without any kind of hud. I want to need to walk to the torpedo room on foot to get there, and not to press a magical key and get there instantly.

For me, all this is the true immersion.

[Faamecanic]

I think what would be cool is a decent damage report screen AND as damage happens crew shout from different sections what the damage is. Kinda like real life (was Das Boot or even the crappy movie U-571).....

[Faamecanic]

My compromise:
- Keep 2d damage control screen.
- Implement damage textures and effects, elaborating on what we already have in SHIII (broken gauges etc.).
- As I've suggested earlier, implement as a realism setting that damage reports take time to arrive, as they would in reality. You first receive a message a compartment or component has been hit, then have to wait for the damage report.
- I'd have nothing against seeing the damage status of a system or gauge or whatever as I moused over it.

^^ this :yeah: