View Full Version : OK...TMO is kicking my a**
zippykat
10-08-09, 05:07 AM
I play with 84 realism. Unchecked are the event cam, the free cam (which I use very judiciously, well after the battle is decided, map contacts, after bout 12 straight deaths ) and the stabilizer. I took my sub on patrol and tried to track down a merchant in rough seas. Found the merchant using sonar, but it was impossible to determine range as the ship was rocking so bad the merchant was jumping off the bottom and the top (Now that I think about it I could have calculated range using sonar)
In any case I have started numerous Dec. 8th '41 campaigns in a Porpoise class sub (USS Porpoise...big shock) and have been getting wrecked almost every patrol. My main problem being planed that detect me 40m under the sea and my lack of skill in manual TDC calculations that seems to leave me no choice but to surface and blast it with my deck gun, leaving me exposed to enemy fire.
My most frustrating mission was one in which i took the Porppoise to Section A4 off Tokyo and was told to go sink stuff. I decided to head down towards that little island town of Higashi in the Coriddor II section only to find that it was empty, but only after encountering a small merchant on the way. I set up a solution following the tutorial, went flank speed to get ahead and had a nice easy 700 yard shot. Two fish in the water they miss well ahead of the merchant. Adjust the spread to move left and fire two more and both were set with proximity fuses but both exploded well short of the target and were proclaimed duds. Out of the water rose a very angry sub skipper and his deck gun and despite taking 3% hull damage I sank the merchant. Not a very surgical approach, like hunting deer with cluster bombs. Next, I patrolled off the inlet to Tokyo, sinking an 1800 ton merchant in choppy seas and two fishing boats (that managed to damage my batteries with MG fire...sigh) that were turned into swiss cheese flambe. I decided I needed a stationary target, calm seas, and an escape route. I chose Ishinomaki, north of Tokyo. It had large ship facilities (at least, larger than Higachi) and it had a deep water channel that run up to 4000m from the docks giving me some more options when I vamoosed.
I moved along the coast line, surfacing at night and staying at 2/3 at 45M during the day and made my way to the port. Therer were two escorts and since I had so far been hopeless against slow moving merchants, I figured trying a snapshot against a quick, armed opponent was not wise. Moving in at 2/3 speed I wited for the gunboats to move off. They did. I edged closer, the watch spotting 4 ships in harbor (My watch spotted them, I could not til I was roughly 2000 meters away as it was just before dawn and insanely dark) I was still at periscope depth and opened my recognition manual to identify the first merchant I barely had time to flip open the book before I realized that one of the gunboats was heading right at me. I couldn't see two feet in front of my face but this skipper had spotted me from about 8000m off. Not trusting my torp skills I surfaced to take out the small craft and was raked by fire from the ship and from land and died.
If I see that picture of that dufus holding a loaf of bread one more time while my PC tells me that my CO was happy I bit it, I'm going to explode.
Stoopid fun game!
Rockin Robbins
10-08-09, 06:21 AM
Well, everybody's entitled on ONE fatal mistake, aren't they?:D Great story about another victim powned by TMO!:rock: It powned me too when I with reasonable judgment and with great accuracy sank the USS Essex. Oops...:oops: I still haven't started that new career.
Grind_and_Click
10-08-09, 09:00 AM
Yeah im going to stick with vanilla...
I wouldnt appreciate being spotted at 8000m as a broom handle.
Zippy,
I have a tough time spotting ships at night that my lookout reports seeing. I get too much glare and back lighting in my house to see the monitor clearly. I found that when I'm playing at night I crank up the gamma and then I see the ships no problem. It might look a little washed out but its better than seeing nothing.
zippykat
10-08-09, 11:33 AM
mheil,
I am trying for as much realism as possible with my skill set (at this rate I'm going to have to set it at...oh...2) so i have not upped my gamma at night. I may have to do that though. Seeing anything at night may just be physically impossible in this game at times. I even turn all the lights off in my house to see on the screen better. I may have to move towards your method unless anybody has a better idea about seeing at night. I wouldn't have a problem with the lack of visibility if the AI were under the same constraints but the computer acts like I left my Yazoo Beer neon light sign on in the conning tower.
I'll stick with TMO. Despite my frustrations I like it better and the details they have filled in are an improvement. The problem is not the mod, it's the mod user.
A question on the duds. They exploded well short of target and were set for proximity, not contact. Does that mean they explode at the incorrect range I set? Or is that just an example of the suckitude suffered by the US tiorps early in the war?
FIREWALL
10-08-09, 11:40 AM
I wanna hear more about this " Yazoo " beer !!! :DL
AVGWarhawk
10-08-09, 11:49 AM
http://www.localtable.net/blogs/kath/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/img_05421-253x400.jpg
Ducimus
10-08-09, 12:04 PM
Found the merchant using sonar, but it was impossible to determine range as the ship was rocking so bad the merchant was jumping off the bottom and the top
Just keep in mind that TMO uses a mod called SCAF. Short for Ship Centered Accuracy Fix if i remember correctly. (RR will never forgive me for this, and its too late in the game to pull it out of the mod) What it does, is it changes the aiming point on the stadimeter. Top of mast, top of funnel, etc. The aiming point is annotated in the rec manual for each ship. So as long as you remember to refer to the recognition manual, you should have even greater precision in your range calculations then before.
My main problem being planed that detect me 40m under the sea
Yeah that is one of the more errr.. lauded aspects of TMO, and it is by design. The premise being that the waters in the pacific are much clearer, thereby making it relatively easy to spot submerged objects from the air. Also keeps you on your toes. If your cruising under water near the surface, extend your SD radar mast, and your periscope so you have both radar and visual sensory at work for you.
, the watch spotting 4 ships in harbor (My watch spotted them, I could not til I was roughly 2000 meters away as it was just before dawn and insanely dark)
Thank you! You see, ive fixed this in the next TMO update (currently known as the 1.8 beta), and i got a few complaints about it and i cited pretty much what you just did, and nobody had any idea what i was talking about. :haha:
I barely had time to flip open the book before I realized that one of the gunboats was heading right at me. I couldn't see two feet in front of my face but this skipper had spotted me from about 8000m off.
Some of the smaller craft that patrol harbors has some pretty good passive sonar. Some merchants also have some basic passive sonar (not all, just a few). In general, you have to be really mindful of your noise when above the thermal layer. When below the thermal layer, you can be more lax in your sound discipline.
As an aside, some of your fish had a premature explosion due to the magnetic pistol. The rougher the seas, the greater the chance the fish will premature before it reaches the target.
Armistead
10-08-09, 01:17 PM
Don't worry, once you've got some practice it'll be pie for you.
I use the color filter at night, helps some. I run my gamma low. Also helps to come it with the moon behind the enemy not you. The moon glare alone gives plenty of light.
I am one of those that complain of being able to see merchants long before my crew doe's. I think it's more weather effects than anything.
Good weather I can spot things thousands of yards before my crew. Lite fog, cloudly weather, the crew can see before I do. Still, once you have radar that shouldn't be a problem. I play mostly with contacts off, so why it bothers me more.
If an aircraft overflys you it can see your sub down to about 150ft.
40m - what's that? About 120ft? Not deep enough I'm afraid.
To be safe I go to 180ft. Since doing this I have never been bombed by aircraft whilst underwater.
Ah just looked it up. 180ft is 55m. Try this :DL
Rockin Robbins
10-08-09, 02:08 PM
Ducimus is just a diabolical individual.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/muhaha.gif
TMO 1.7 kicked my butt as well when i first switched to it from vanilla.
the big hurdle for me was getting to the know the AI's new visual & mechanical "Sensor" ranges.
Once i got a feel for when i'd be detected in a myriad of conditions.. it was smooth sailing afterwards.
The AI depth charges are a PITA now and not to be toyed with. It's best to avoid being depth charged.
If an aircraft overflys you it can see your sub down to about 150ft.
40m - what's that? About 120ft? Not deep enough I'm afraid.
To be safe I go to 180ft. Since doing this I have never been bombed by aircraft whilst underwater.
Ah just looked it up. 180ft is 55m. Try this :DL
Sergie what folder and file can I find that setting at?
Ducimus
10-08-09, 10:06 PM
Well, being depth charged certainly isn't to be toyed with, but unless you primarely do night surface attacks, it can be difficult to avoid them entirely.
I get the impression that some may think that escaping is too hard. Well, it is harder, but i don't think too hard. The thing is, when i altered things, i had in mind what i refer to as "the depth charge experience". In my mind, being depth charged is part and parcel of a submarine sim regardless of theater. So as part of this "experience", i had intended it to be a nail biting, on the knifes edge of destruction thing to endure.
In short, you want to be mindful of your profile, push your sub as deep as you think you can safely go, and manuever evasivly when the situation calls for it. If you run too shallow, or don't manuever, as in just laying to 400 feet, rudder 0 degrees, and putting the engine to 1/3rd, and advance the TC and/or go afk for 20 mins like one would with the stock AI, your going to get spanked.
yeah i cringe at the thought of attacking an escorted conoy at daytime now.
much safer to stay on the surface at night, because they wont spot you on sonar as you approach, and have to rely only on their eyeballs.
you can shoot and scoot and they wont find you if you keep your profile and speed within reason.
many times they'll race to where the torpedo's came from and spend alot time looking for you with sonar, search lights, and starshells... leaving the convoy open for another rapid attack.
if you're feeling bold, slip far enough away and smash the gas to attack the now undefended sections. a quick radar on/off check will show you any flanks that are unguarded due to the comotion you've caused.
once you get there, close in as far as you can without being spotted by searchlight and go periscope depth at full speed. close and attack ships at extremely close ranges... then dive as deep as you can go and get away.
Normally the escorts will be too far out of position looking in the wrong location for you to find you when they do finally race back to the convoy.
Ducimus
10-08-09, 10:31 PM
Personally, the only time i wont do a submerged daylight attack, is if it's in shallow water. Once you get below the thermal layer, you can manuever a bit faster then you could above it. But thats not going to help you much in shallow water.
If the weather is exceptionally calm, is a moment where i'll give pause, cause i know ill be in for it, but end up attacking anyway. Takes awhile in that situation, but i can slink away 9 out of 10 times.
Oh dont get me wrong, i'll attack during the daylight as well.
It's just that i get alot more succes at night on the surface.
During the daytime while submerged, there's a really good chance that i will get spotted at some point (or they'll be looking for me) before the torpedos leave the boat unless the weather is slanted in my favor.
maybe i just need more time with it though. Haven't had enough chances vs. a convoy at daylight yet to make any final judgments.
zippykat
10-09-09, 12:17 AM
I'm pretty much looking for calm weather so I can have a chance at a halfway decent firing solution. The two depth charge attacks I did survive I went down t60m, dropped to 1/3, did a hard turn and flank speed when i heard the sonar go off prior to the charges being dropped, flank speed for about 45-60 seconds and then try and make my profile small at 1/3 and slink away. It took a few tries, but the flank speed burst helped get me out of the way of the depth charges and avoid damage until i finally guessed right on my route of escape and snuck away.
Sergie what folder and file can I find that setting at?
Do you mean how can you dive deep?
Your depth gauge has two faces. Click on the rectangle beneath the gauge to switch between the two. Shallow gauge goes down to 165 ft (50m?). Deep gauge goes down to 450ft. See pic below
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3402/gauge.jpg
From Ducimus: 'The thing is, when i altered things, i had in mind what i refer to as "the depth charge experience". In my mind, being depth charged is part and parcel of a submarine sim regardless of theater. So as part of this "experience", i had intended it to be a nail biting, on the knifes edge of destruction thing to endure.'
Absolutely! Being depth charged is part of the fun! When I first got this game I remember attacking a task force in shallow waters (about 150ft). Sunk 1 carrier, reloaded torpedoes under the task force, then came up the other side and sunk another. The whole time the escorts were just merrily steaming along without a care in the world. Didn't get pinged once, not a single depth charge in the water, hell I don't think the escorts even turned around. I'd just sunk 2 carriers but it felt like a bit of a hollow experience, like shooting fish in a barrel. There's gotta be risk to go with the reward. The game went back on the shelf 'till I found this place. Haven't looked back since then :DL
Do you mean how can you dive deep?
Your depth gauge has two faces. Click on the rectangle beneath the gauge to switch between the two. Shallow gauge goes down to 165 ft (50m?). Deep gauge goes down to 450ft. See pic below
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3402/gauge.jpg
From Ducimus: 'The thing is, when i altered things, i had in mind what i refer to as "the depth charge experience". In my mind, being depth charged is part and parcel of a submarine sim regardless of theater. So as part of this "experience", i had intended it to be a nail biting, on the knifes edge of destruction thing to endure.'
Absolutely! Being depth charged is part of the fun! When I first got this game I remember attacking a task force in shallow waters (about 150ft). Sunk 1 carrier, reloaded torpedoes under the task force, then came up the other side and sunk another. The whole time the escorts were just merrily steaming along without a care in the world. Didn't get pinged once, not a single depth charge in the water, hell I don't think the escorts even turned around. I'd just sunk 2 carriers but it felt like a bit of a hollow experience, like shooting fish in a barrel. There's gotta be risk to go with the reward. The game went back on the shelf 'till I found this place. Haven't looked back since then :DL
Sergie thank you for teaching me somehting else...amazing what you don't pick up after reading the manual twice and having a succesful patrol but my question was geared toward the aircraft.
What file sets how deep they can see you at? The one you mention.
...amazing what you don't pick up after reading the manual twice
That's not your fault. The manual is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
There's stuff in the manual that ain't in the game, and stuff in the game that ain't in the manual.
Let Subsim be your guide :DL
I really don't know how to change the sensor values for the planes, that's way outside my field of knowledge. Sorry mate.
I dunno how to change it either, but if you want to avoid alot of air.. then dont ever be spotted by one.
i found that when one spotted me... more would come looking for me.(atleast it appeared that way).
whenever i dove deep enough to not be spotted by the random aircraft.. i had far fewer re-occurances of air sightings.
Freiwillige
10-09-09, 01:55 PM
If an aircraft overflys you it can see your sub down to about 150ft.
40m - what's that? About 120ft? Not deep enough I'm afraid.
To be safe I go to 180ft. Since doing this I have never been bombed by aircraft whilst underwater.
Ah just looked it up. 180ft is 55m. Try this :DL
When they are directly above you yes, How many aircraft are looking straight down over an endless empty open ocean? If looking at a sub at any angle the water will be thicker and the sub hidden by surface glare etc.
Rockin Robbins
10-09-09, 02:02 PM
Can you do all the right things and still die in TMO? You better betcher bippy! You are not in 100% control of your destiny there. If you require a 100% chance of evasion that is too difficult.
But I wonder how many dead submariners did all the right things? I wouldn't have it any other way.:D
When they are directly above you yes, How many aircraft are looking straight down over an endless empty open ocean? If looking at a sub at any angle the water will be thicker and the sub hidden by surface glare etc.
In real life? Probably none.
I was referring to TMO planes only.
Those buggers ALWAYS look down! :DL
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