Trying again.....FAIL!

[Freiwillige]

I have reloaded this beast for another round But ill be derned if I can figure out the TDC in a complex multi target environment such as a convoy.

I can target single ships just dandy.

Also my second problem is the escorts. All I hear is how easy they are, Not my experiance at all! They seem to spot my periscope at 3 miles in the blink of a second!

Example A. Was in the path of a convoy offset to one side. Pariscope depth, Silent running, ahead 1/3rd. I popped my scope and could barely see the convoy cause the distance was so great but the escorts tore after me immediatly!

I looked at the map and the escorts were between 2 and 3 miles!

Sure its broad daylight but 3 miles?

So I get close to the scattered convoy being DC all the way and pop up
with destroyers churning all around me and I cant figure out the TDC at such immediate ranges.

I can SHIII with GWX all day long and slip past escorts at Pariscope depth and at least nail the convoy before the Destroyers slam me.

SHIV I can get past the escorts unalerted to save my life!

SHIV W/ Game fixes only mod and RSRD

[Rockin Robbins]

Guess what? GWX3 escorts are brain dead compared to SH4 escorts. You have to relearn attack techniques all over again with SH4. Yeah, I know that is very different from what you've been told over in the SH3 world, but you're in the bigtime now. No more mollycoddling: this is serious business.

I run TMO, the Ducimus masterpiece, where the escorts are a magnitude better than those you are in shock about. Still, most times I can get in shooting range (for me that's 1000 yards or less) and get my shots off. Sometimes I am driven away before I get to the convoy but still work that to my advantage.

Most always I'll time my attack for sunset. I'll approach from about 45º ahead, flooded down decks awash at 10 knots. That means ahead full. You can approach to within 3000 yards undetected if you keep a low aspect ratio, bow toward the nearest escort.

At 3000 yards go to silent running, keep RPMs at or below 100, go to radar depth or periscope depth. Within 2000 yards definitely be at periscope depth. On my very first approach I will shoot for the largest target in the convoy with a spread of three. Immediately after I loose the last torpedo, I turn tail and run. Forget about silent running. When outside 3000 yards pop up to the surface and leave that convoy at ahead emergency.

The escorts will now be on your side of the convoy playing ring around the rosy over your last suspected positions. Do an end around to the other side of the convoy, now unguarded, and execute an attack. You have about 20 minutes.

Shooting mutliple targets? I say forget it. Nobody did it in the war, the escorts are too sharp to give you the time to get the job done. But if you must, visit the Sub Skippers' Bag of Tricks thread and check out Tale's tutorial for multi-ship targeting. It works, it's simple, it's fast enough to use in an escorted situation and will score you some multiples.

Experience with SH4 escorts will gain you skill. Then you'll be able to wreck havock. But first you have to unlearn some SH3 habits! Have fun!

[TwinStackPete379]

I just recently learned to nail multiple targets in convoys. the first one is the ambush target, and then i like to go strait for the heart of the convoy and use the marus as a screen against the escorts. I hit the escort closest to me that's between me and the heart of the convoy. the marus are all upset and frighteneed like little girls when the green camo of the now infamous USS Tiger Shark pierces the waves! i can pop at least 2 merchants after i ambush the first escort. I do it at periscope depth, shooting straight (NO PK, bearing at zero, range at max, AOB at zero, Speed at zero), i give about 7 degrees lead on an angled straight moving target. Torpedos on high speed, i can usually wound the ones i hit ( if they don't sink outright), they lag behind, i come in and finish them off after a nice snack at 300ft.

AS far as getting into the flock when i'm just going after a single quick kill, i set up on the forward lead corner of the convoy formation, get below the thermal, go quiet, and wait for lead escort to pass and as soon as the imaginary rear semi circle of deafness covers me, i come up to periscope depth and start looking for my target. Using the O'Kane 90 of course.

[Armistead]

Why I gave up on GWX in after one career. DD's were too easy. You'll get use to it.

[Freiwillige]

GWX escorts too easy? I think the ability to sneak past the escorts is historically accurate. What do you want out of this sim, Difficulty or accuracy?

I can say that I have played TMO in the past and GWX3 escorts in this sailors opinion are far worse than Japanese escorts at pounding you into oblivion once they are onto you. The opposite is true of spotting you where the Japanese can see you far farther out than the English, American destroyers In GWX.

Also I would think that the English and American ASW teams were the WWII experts. The Japanese were a bit behind both in training and technology.
Things like Hedgehogs, Radar, Aircraft dedicated ASW were all in the Atlantic.

Also you have to factor in experiance! ASW in the Atlantic was kept busy from 1939 all the way to 1945. Entire hunter killer groups were formed to combat the U-boats, Something the Japanese never did.

In comparison we have the vast pacific, with fewer submarines equaling fewer targets equaling fewer chances for the Japanese destroyers to gain critical experiance.

So what I am saying is this. If Japanese ASW in SH IV is more deadly (Which in my opinion it isnt it just can see far better) than it is in the atlantic, Than something on a historical level is off. And I am not implying Japanese destroyer crews were slouches either, Just limited in their experience and means.

So I will take all of your advice and pursue my goal of being the next great American Cowboy in the Pacific.....Which has its irony since I am in fact an AZ Cowboy!:arrgh!:

[Webster]

So what I am saying is this. If Japanese ASW in SH IV is more deadly (Which in my opinion it isnt it just can see far better) than it is in the atlantic, Than something on a historical level is off. And I am not implying Japanese destroyer crews were slouches either, Just limited in their experience and means.




i suggest you read a little about japanese histrory because you are way way off.


the japanese were fighting a war with their neigbor countries for years before ww2 (this is why we stopped selling them oil which lead to them starting the war with us) so when we entered the war they were already seasoned experts at the art of war and had the experience and skill not the US.

the US were brand new at fighting a war and were still wet behind the ears and had major issues that took a long time to work out before they became good.

[sergei]

GWX escorts too easy? I think the ability to sneak past the escorts is historically accurate. What do you want out of this sim, Difficulty or accuracy?

Just FYI, the design philosophy behind TMO is to provide the player with challenging gameplay.
If you want historical accuracy then RFB is yer man! :DL

[Rockin Robbins]

So I will take all of your advice and pursue my goal of being the next great American Cowboy in the Pacific.....Which has its irony since I am in fact an AZ Cowboy!:arrgh!:

Dynamite! Have fun, learn from death and you'll be just fine. RFB is much more realistic detection-wise, but in my estimation, not as much fun as matching wits with the TMO fiends.

It gets better as you learn how they behave. Before long you wouldn't have it any other way. And don't forget to ask questions if you need any pointers.:up:

[Freiwillige]

i suggest you read a little about japanese histrory because you are way way off.


the japanese were fighting a war with their neigbor countries for years before ww2 (this is why we stopped selling them oil which lead to them starting the war with us) so when we entered the war they were already seasoned experts at the art of war and had the experience and skill not the US.

the US were brand new at fighting a war and were still wet behind the ears and had major issues that took a long time to work out before they became good.

How many of their neighbor countries had a modern submarine fleet prior to the US entry in the war? I will answer that for you....ZERO.

So speaking strictly in terms of ASW, The Japanese had no prior experience. I know my history and understand that Japan was at war since 1933 with Manchuria (Which it annexed) and China. Neithr of those opponents offered much threat to the Japanese merchant fleet and both were outclassed by Japanese technology.

Yes the U.S. was wet behind the ears but remember from Day 1 of war our Fleetboats were facing the Japanese in their home waters when our surface fleet could ill afford another loss.

[Rockin Robbins]

Actually, there was a huge difference, squadron to squadron and even ship to ship in Japanese ASW capability. In Japanese Destroyer Captain, by Capt Tameichi Hara, it is clear that the bushido code made offensive warfare the only honorable way. Guarding ones' own life through defensive action was unthinkable and even shameful. When a Japanese father put his son on the train to go to war he told his son, "Go and die for your country. Do not come home alive."They literally went out to seek death in battle.

In spite of that, groups of forward thinking individuals in the Japanese military realized that attack cannot exist in a vacuum, and that there was legitimate military necessity for defensive tactics. Some of these people became destroyer captains and commanders of destroyer squadrons. But while they developed ASW techniques to a high level, other destroyer crews looked upon their functions only as the advance attack fodder of the surface fleet. The spent almost no time perfecting ASW tactics.

The result was a wildly mixed-up mixture of advanced and retarded units. This is pretty well reflected in the RFB mod, which will have a brain-dead escort fooling you into being foolishly unguarded with that next DD who will eat your lunch.

[Freiwillige]

COOL!

Now I cant decide if I want RFB or TMO:damn:

[Freiwillige]

Rockin Robbins,
Trigger Maru Overhauled is great and I love the new features. The escorts ability's might be stretching it a bit. :ping: Or allot!:ping::ping::ping::ping::ping:

RFB looked to be what I needed, Unfortuantely its a slide show:nope: and cuts FPS in half on an already tolerable but mildly struggling system.:damn:

So I am learning the ropes and using GFO:yeah: plus RSRD :yeah:all patched up and so far so good!

Before I thought I was using GFO but do to an unpacking folder in folder JGME issue it wasnt active

But I got to say I like it and using your advice and the pigboat I am murdering freighters around Manila!

[Rockin Robbins]

Excellent, Freiwillige! Yes, I don't recommend learning the ropes on TMO. But you'll be ready for that soon enough. Enjoy GFO and RSRD. And don't fall for any of that "Game Fixes Only" is stock game crap. It's a supermod on the par with any other and a great accomplishment.

My crystal ball grows cloudy.....I see......I see multiple installations in your future!......I see......graphics card upgrades..... what's that?.... a new....microprocessor?.........Your bank account.......where is it???:D

[Freiwillige]

"My crystal ball grows cloudy.....I see......I see multiple installations in your future!......I see......graphics card upgrades..... what's that?.... a new....microprocessor?.........Your bank account.......where is it???:D"~RR

Story of my life! It all started way back in 1990 when I spent 6k$ for a 486 DX4 33 with 8 megs. Then I upgraded the MB and processor to a DX4100 mhz!

Then a Pentium 333 cam into my life

Then I built an AMD 700 Mhz rig with the Geforce and 512 megs of memmory

Then I built an Amd 1.2 MHZ

Now ive built this wreck out of a throw away school computer where my mother is employed. It started its life as a Amd cempron 2.8 with 512 megs
6 months later and six months ago it was upgraded to the AMD64 3.4 with a new Geforce 7300GT 512 card and 2 gigs of memmory!

Bad thing is its a AGP board and I think ive hit her limits!:rock:

[Ducimus]

GWX escorts too easy?
Truthfully, any mod of the AI becomes easy once you become ehhh.. intimate with how the AI works in the game. There's a huge curve of player experience in this regard. Some folks, just don't get it. Others, got it down to an exacting science. So as a modder, within reason, no matter what you do to AI, one group will always find it too hard, the other too easy.

Also I would think that the English and American ASW teams were the WWII experts. The Japanese were a bit behind both in training and technology.
At the beginning of the war, the Japanese and allied ASW were almost or about on par. The difference is, the IJN didn't really refine or improve their ASW during the course of the war, where as the allies were constantly looking to improve it.

Just FYI, the design philosophy behind TMO is to provide the player with challenging gameplay.

True. However, i kept artistic license within reason, or within scale. For example, while i did improve japanese sonar over stock, i intentionally kept it sub par to allied sonar. When upping the challenge level, my underlying thought was, to improve it, without making it "Atlantic hard". In some way's i kinda wish i had been doing an atlantic mod, so i could have upped the AI a bit more, without feeling the need to "stay my hand" as it were. As AI adjusting goes, i've been holding back. ;)

Also keep in mind, one philosphy ive had wasn't always neccessarily to make the game behave more realistically (or challenging), but make the player behave more realisticlly.


As Jap ASW goes, RR pretty much nailed it. No tin can captain really wanted escort duty. It wasn't front line stuff, no honor in it. Japan didn't really have any ASW doctrine to speak of. Strategically, they sucked. Tactically, they did have some capable skippers.

Trigger Maru Overhauled is great and I love the new features. The escorts ability's might be stretching it a bit.

LOL, only in that i didn't vary that much in terms of how much suckitude i put into the Tin cans. They're consistantly capable to provide steady challenge. That said, sensor wise, they still can't hold a candle to allied sensors.

[Rockin Robbins]

"My crystal ball grows cloudy.....I see......I see multiple installations in your future!......I see......graphics card upgrades..... what's that?.... a new....microprocessor?.........Your bank account.......where is it???:D"~RR

Story of my life! It all started way back in 1990 when I spent 6k$ for a 486 DX4 33 with 8 megs. Then I upgraded the MB and processor to a DX4100 mhz!

Then a Pentium 333 cam into my life

Then I built an AMD 700 Mhz rig with the Geforce and 512 megs of memmory

Then I built an Amd 1.2 MHZ

Now ive built this wreck out of a throw away school computer where my mother is employed. It started its life as a Amd cempron 2.8 with 512 megs
6 months later and six months ago it was upgraded to the AMD64 3.4 with a new Geforce 7300GT 512 card and 2 gigs of memmory!

Bad thing is its a AGP board and I think ive hit her limits!:rock:

Phphphphht!!! You've got it licked then. You can build anything from nothing! All it takes is that overly stressed bank account. Too bad motherboards, microprocessors and memory travel together all the time and have to be bought as a package most of the time.

And AGP cards of the same type always cost more than PCIe boards because they hate you for not keeping up. Or something like that. It isn't fair and they do that for memory too. If it's out of date, it's MORE EXPENSI VE for lousier stuff...

But you're the kind of guy who can make this happen for the lowest possible amount of wampum. Time for an upgrade path. You've used what you have within an inch (2.54 cm) of its life!:rock: