players avatar

[Sledgehammer427]

I was thinking of getting this off my chest for a while.

I was wondering what kind of control we would have over our avatar in game.
not running, but things like experience or what have you.

like I had my ideas geared on a RPG-type system, wouldn't it be cool if you can distribute points on your Kaleun? like ceratin attributes like

Leadership
Vision (this would be in the form of sight, having a high vision score would allow you to identify ships easier, or even spot them before your watch crew if you are on the bridge at the right time)
but things like that?
maybe even add in the systems attributes from SHIV?
like
gunnery,
machinery,
electronics
etc.
you can upgrade these points. but make the SHIV attributes like a primary-secondary thing
like
having gunnery as my primary attribute, and electronics as my secondary, showing your Kaleun had a knack for guns at an early stage in his naval career and he was kind of a radio guy.
this would make every players experience dynamic in just being a certain type of captain. personally, I would have a few campaigns running, testing how well one type of kaleun world work in contrast with one with a different set of points.
I was wondering if the devs could shed some light on this. I think this would be wonderful.

[Webster]

silent hunters popularity is in that its a game AND a simulator so to change silent hinter into a pure fps game would be a mistake IMO but if your intention is to say yes, screw the sim side of the game and make sh5 a real fps then what you propose is a good idea.

[Sledgehammer427]

well, my proposal was to add a more dynamic approach to how our kaleun would impact the world around him. in no way do I intend to make an FPS out of the game, but make it so that we can all balance what we would like to see in our captain and see how well it plays out

[Arclight]

Well, people don't "level up" IRL. How far you can see depends on atmospheric conditions and the binoculars you're using, not how much time you spend looking out over the sea.

Imho it's annoying to point the DG at a target, but see the shell flying the wrong way because you're skill is too low. Or hearing a ship on the hydrophones but not being able to report it because your skill doesn't allow you to pick up targets at that distance. :nope:

Imho leave the skill-points/leveling for the NPCs to reflect their gain in experience, and just let the players skills reflect the kaleuns capabilities.

[Webster]

How far you can see depends on atmospheric conditions and the binoculars you're using, not how much time you spend looking out over the sea.



well i agree with your point but that example is wrong, i know for a fact that things like deck watch or spotting things with your eyes in general is a skill that is learned over time and some people miss things that are right in front of them if there eyes havent been trained to spot things in a sea full of movement and change.

[Hitman]

I'd like to add that the german submarine force had (at least before the war and in the first years) a very strong selection and training program, and wannabe U-Boat commanders had to pass specific tests of physical and menthal abilities to allow them to get through. The nature of those tests tended to create a more or less similar profile of abilities in the selected candidates (F.e. menthal calculations, 3D awareness, ability to estimate distances and speed of movement of objects by naked eye or through a lense, etc.)

It's like fighter pilots nowadays, you can find very different characters among them when fighting/flying, but when it comes to physical/menthal skills they are incredibly close together -which is no wonder, seeing they passed the same hard tests-

P.S. Most probably, almost none of us would have passed such tests in real life (I at least sure wouldn't), so we have to live with the fact that we play a role for which we probably are not adecuate. But such is gaming :D

[Sledgehammer427]

that's the point I was trying to get at kinda,

if you set too many skill points else where, it would make it so that you haven't spent the time learning how to spot things like WEBSTER said.

as you go up on deck and spot out enemy ships your skill will continue to improve in that area.

EDIT: @ Hitman, I see your point. but I still have a sneaky feeling I could figure out a way to work that in :D

[Arclight]

If being able to spot a ship on the horizon is dependant on experience, wouldn't it make more sense to have that in the game like IRL, instead of statt based stuff?

I just don't want to be in a situation where I managed to spot something at great distance but not being to report it due to game-mechanics. Or not have seen anything at all but have it auto-reported because my statts say I've spotted it.

Both situations break immersion. You're reminded of playing a game, because your actual skill is limited to or superseded by a number in a .cfg file. :-?

[Webster]

If being able to spot a ship on the horizon is dependant on experience, wouldn't it make more sense to have that in the game like IRL, instead of statt based stuff?

I just don't want to be in a situation where I managed to spot something at great distance but not being to report it due to game-mechanics. Or not have seen anything at all but have it auto-reported because my statts say I've spotted it.

Both situations break immersion. You're reminded of playing a game, because your actual skill is limited to or superseded by a number in a .cfg file. :-?

well you cant have it both ways, if you are going to take over a station then it goes by your skill and not the skill of the player you replace. as captain your skill cant be limited or you wouldnt be able to take over other stations since your not qualified to and if you are qualified to do them all then you dont need levels of skill for yourself.

you are replacing the crew member and not morphing into their body. when you leave their station they see with their skill level so if you see it and they cant, then thats just how it is just like real life. you cant make someone see it just because you can, they either can see it or they dont so i dont see the problem.

[Hitman]

That was actually already simulated in SH3/4, probably not intentionally, but it was. If you see a ship and you crew has not yet reported it, aiming at it with an optics and locking the target automatically makes your crew see it and they can now follow it, estimate distance, etc. The lock key works here as a report to the crew :up:

[Arclight]

Aye, that's what I'm talking about; what we had. Let's not mess that up by introducing statts for the captain.

A gun fires where you point it. If I aim it at a ship, I don't want to see the shell miss by a mile because my "avatars" gunnery skill isn't high enough. :nope:

[Sledgehammer427]

well, I don;t think accuracy would be of much help. I meant that if you had a gunnery perk, it would do things like decrease loading time, perhaps even a damage increase.
letss ay you have a radio perk, I was thinking you could get reports more early, showing your knowledge in working a radio.
but you have to think of how these balance out later in the war. being a good gunner will get you tonnage early on, but your career may suffer later because you are so used to that tactic. a good radioman skill may bring more escorts and enemy patrols to your areas. pros and cons.

[Arclight]

Perks, or character-traits, that I agree with. :yep:

Maybe the option to choose 2 or 3 of them at the start of a career (character creation, kinda), to give your Kaleun/you a bit of character, something that makes him unique.

[Sledgehammer427]

that's what I've been trying to say haha

with that kind of system, I would be more willing to try multiple captains, with different perks. I do that with games that allow you to pick strengths and weaknesses

[Arclight]

My apologies for the misunderstanding, but in the first post you referred to distributing points for your character. Kinda triggered a panic response. :)

Guess I'm still looking from a D&D perpective; a "skill" is something very different from a "feat" or "perk" in my world. ;)

But yeah, very good idea. Since they seem to be focusing on more immersion with the FPS viewpoint, total modeling of the interior and crew-interaction, they should (imho) include a system that really makes the captain (you) stand out, something that makes him the commander. A system like you propose could create a bond between the player and his avatar, and between the avatar and the crew.

Heck, they could even create dialog referring to these traits. Maybe they could introduce a "cooking" one (captain is a bit of a chef in his spare time; allows longer time at sea) and have the crew compliment their Kaleun on his cooking. :D

[Fluffysheap]

This approach works pretty well in "Pirates" - both the original and the remake. Of course, that is just a game, not a sim at all.

The trick I think is to make it so the feats/perks/whatever affect the gameplay without either superseding areas where player skill should take priority (like aiming guns/torpedoes) or making things operate outside the capabilities they had in reality (like buying the engine supercharger upgrade in SH3 - which makes the U-boats faster than they actually were).

But that doesn't mean there can't be differences. Cooking is of course the most important aspect in SH5, so better cooking might mean longer patrol times, or better crew morale. Of course the captain doesn't do the actual cooking, but maybe he shares his secret soup recipe, or brings special sausages with him from his family's butcher shop. Or your captain could be a strict disciplinarian which improves crash dive times (better drilling practice) and improves torpedo dud rate through better maintenance. He could be an engineering expert which improves repair times and probably again torpedo dud probability, this time through engineering expertise instead of strict maintenance routine. Or, maybe he is politically savvy so you get no direct in-game benefits but start with or earn extra renown. He could even have "good instincts" so that somehow he always manages to find more/better convoys.

The point is these are all things that are "fuzzy" and open to interpretation or random chance - your engineer captain doesn't make the batteries last longer or the engines run faster because the systems simply didn't have that capability, but he can improve torpedo duds because you're rolling the dice for that anyway.

[Hitman]

Or your captain could be a strict disciplinarian which improves crash dive times (better drilling practice) and improves torpedo dud rate through better maintenance. He could be an engineering expert which improves repair times and probably again torpedo dud probability, this time through engineering expertise instead of strict maintenance routine.

Only this part seems more realistic to me. Cooking and such ... well, not why I would like, but OK as long as it is optional. But the part on drilling and training was real and we had already something similar in SH4: The more crash dives you did, the faster the boat actually dived. It tired the crew more, but had a reward, so your role is to find the good compromise. Again something I personally would like to see automated -I have already enough to deal with, since the crew is in fact not real but AI- but anyway interesting,

[THE_MASK]

The problem i have with that is , the only thing that should affect the AI sight is environmental things like smoke , fog , rain , salt spray etc . My eyes dont deteriorate when i am playing sh4 so neither should the AI . Well they detriorate if i am not sober of course . The sonarmans hearing should never change , unless someone let off a fire cracker on board .

[Webster]

The problem i have with that is , the only thing that should affect the AI sight is environmental things like smoke , fog , rain , salt spray etc . My eyes dont deteriorate when i am playing sh4 so neither should the AI . Well they detriorate if i am not sober of course . The sonarmans hearing should never change , unless someone let off a fire cracker on board .


well the watch crew should have less ability when tired because your eyes are straining to see over the horizon and tired eyes have a "big" effect on how fast and how much you can detect on the water.

i am a lifelong fisherman and your "distance" vision does goes up or down a lot according to how tired you are. the waves will lull you into a trance and hypnotise you to the point you look right at something and not notice it and it gets even worse when you are tired.


sitting at your computer is not the same but you will feel eye strain there too if you are trying to pick out fine details on the horizon

[THE_MASK]

well the watch crew should have less ability when tired because your eyes are straining to see over the horizon and tired eyes have a "big" effect on how fast and how much you can detect on the water.

i am a lifelong fisherman and your "distance" vision does goes up or down a lot according to how tired you are. the waves will lull you into a trance and hypnotise you to the point you look right at something and not notice it and it gets even worse when you are tired.


sitting at your computer is not the same but you will feel eye strain there too if you are trying to pick out fine details on the horizon I work on the docks and yeah i can imagine having tired eyes after an 8 hour night shift because i know what its like . The problem i had with sh4 was crew not spotting ships . Maybe sh5 should drop out of TC before ships are spotted , i dunno .