How to evade escorts?

[Brausepaul]

Hi,

after a long absence I returned to SH 4 with the U-Boat addon and TMO. I learned it the hard way that the game isn't easy when realism is set to full :wah: My main problem is I simply don't have any situational awareness when submerged. So far each and every escort was able to sink my sub just because I don't know how to evade, when to speed and where the escorts are. Is there any tutorial or guide hat covers these aspects?

[SteamWake]

There are some tutorials check the anchor posts.

Full realisim can indeed be tough as it removes as you said aids to situational awarness.

I suppose the main thing is to become a master with the sonar. After a while you can tell if a ship is closing or moving away and even know when they are going to make a DC run.

In fact you dont even have to use sonar when they are close you can hear them inside your ship. If there that close and you hear them ratchet up to flank its a pretty sure bet there going to crap on you. Thats when its time for you to hit ahead flank and throw the rudder over to one side or another. Of couse after a few minutes you will need to drop back to 2 or 3 knots but that momentum built up can be enough to slip away.

[Bubblehead1980]

Yea, TMO on full realism is tough, esp when being depth charged, gives you a small idea of what it was like.

There are variables to every situation such as sea conditions(in heavier seas, you can get away with murder, even in TMO, calm seas, be ready for a fight) but here is what has worked for me.

First, go deep as you can...most subs in TMO will atleast 200 feet below test depth with no problem.Ducimus has said TMO was designed to make the player push the limits.In a Gato, 300 foot test depth, I go to 500 feet often to evade, been to 575 feet, but that is pushing it.Switch to your knot-o-meter, make sure silent running is enabled and order one knot...in the conning tower, check the RPM gauges in the lower right corner next to helmsman, keep them below 50, this means you are pretty quiet, 1 knot runs the sub at around 35 RPM's i believe, at deeper depths, they can barely, if at all hear you.

Next, keep full right or left rudder and switch after each attack by the escort.This means you are making a constant, slow turn and change in direction.This is a real tactic used by Tommy Dykers, commander of USS Jack during the war.I got it from the book Silent Running by James Calvert and it actually works in game.

Now, the key is to stay real time, as long as that takes, its a must, esp on 100 realism, and listen.You can hear when the DD is overhead, the loud rumble of screws and can hear the splashes of charges, if hes overhead, order rudder amidships and flank speed, start your stopwatch and time it, 45 second run at flank speed, all stop, order left or full right rudder, whichever is opposite of what your rudder was before you ordered it admiships.Then the momentum will carry you throuh most of the turn, once you slow to 0 knots, order 1 knot again.This works and confuses even the best escort's, it may take time but unless a lucky charge catches you, you should be able to slip away.Sometimes you may take minor and even heavy damage, but don't give up, just put your best men in the Damage Control party and keep the boat afloat while they make repairs.

Evading in shallow waters is a bit more difficult but possible.I was in the Gulf of Thailand, bottom was at 200 feet, calm seas.Large convoy, had 6 of 8 escorts on me(counted on sonar) was on 100 realism, the hounded me for hours, many close charges, some caused damage, including bulkhead with minor flooding.I escaped.Made many, many runs at high speed and turns etc to get away.Thats why depth is your ally, deeper you are, less likely the charges will get you, esp if you are moving.

In later way, decoys do help.On the way down, let some decoys go, they stay quiet and get to another depth, they will usually spend their time dropping charges on the decoys at their depth and not you.

[Morpheus]

bubblehead's description is quite good, in my opinion.


Going below the thermal layer is a must when evading, in any case. And, there is one advantage of "relavive" shallow seas though. In case you where hit and suffer heavy flooding you sub will go down. Grounding can save your life in this case. In deep waters you would be lost in most cases.

In any case, happy evading captain ;)

cheers
morph

//Edit: P.S.: I strongly recommend to NOT use TC while evading. It leads to escorts suddently being able to "see" you, while in normals cases the would not see you. Magic ...

[SteamWake]

I have never... ever... been able to avoid or evade persecution by 'bottoming' the boat.

They will typically relentlessly keep dropping DC's in the general area untill one gets lucky. Or they hang around endlessly keeping you pinned down till you run out of air.

No its best to keep moving me thinks :salute:

[BlueFlames]

No its best to keep moving me thinks

I think Morpheus meant that when your engine room becomes a ballast tank, it's better to hit the deck, before you hit your crush depth. Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree that keeping on the move is more effective than dragging one's keel.

[Wilcke]

Bubblehead has good tactics, keep moving, if the tin cans are tasked to defend a convoy or TF keep your sub moving away from the convoy or TF, after a while the tin cans will move off although they might leave one can on lookout for your scope. I usually wait until dark and then come up for a looksie, if its all clear then its time for another end run on the TF or convoy depending on their speed. To pull this off without external cam and unit cam is the ultimate experience in SH4!

Happy Hunting!

[Morpheus]

I think Morpheus meant that when your engine room becomes a ballast tank, it's better to hit the deck, before you hit your crush depth. Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree that keeping on the move is more effective than dragging one's keel.
thats exactelly what i meant, thank you :)

[Rockin Robbins]

I like Bubblehead's evasion method, but I never use it. Yesterday I was at the deepest in my entire playing life, 457 feet. I very seldom go lower than 250', preferring to keep the initiative by the ability to quickly regain periscope depth and put the fear of God into whatever escort is bright enough to stop and listen for me.

I also do most of my evasion at 100 RPM, which is almost 3 knots, not 1 knot. Below the layer, unless they are under 500 yards away they don't seem to have much of a clue what's going on. In smooth water all bets are off.

I tend to reverse his turning strategy, traveling in a straight line when moving slow and hitting the rudder when going fast after they drop. The rudder does slow you down, causing you to have the bad choice of either increasing the throttle to make more noise to make the same speed, or to accept the up to 50% reduction in speed. At 1 knot that means you can be down to 1/2 knot.

Why do I emphasize speed over ultimate stealth? Let's figure it out. At 1 knot, you are traveling 300' in one minute. That means it takes more than one minute for your sub to travel its own length. A depth charge exploding anywhere along that length is pretty bad.

It certainly doesn't take a full minute for the charge to drop 500'. So if he's on top of you and drops, does it matter whether you're turning left or right or going straight? No, because part of your sub will still be under that drop point when the boom gets there. You're moving too slow. That was the U-Boat's problem.

However, if you're moving 3 knots, you're two sub lengths away at boom time even with no evasion taken at all. Now they have to anticipate your position and drop ahead of you. Now turning hard over and hitting the throttle when they drop is a reliable evasion strategy.

Sounds like either way works. There's usually more than one method to do something right. It's good to know more of them.:up:

[Bubblehead1980]

I agree either way works, each has his own style.I began using the Dykers Method because others were not working for me, esp in calm seas, even below a thermal layer.You did say in calm seas, all bets are off.TMO escorts are just too tough to screw around with in calm seas...I have found best method is to go deep, quiet and costantly change course until they lose you.

I have found staying quiet and deep, making the constant slow turn and making the runs at flank speed when needed works.I understand why you stay fairly shallow so can pop back up to periscope depth, but the convoy will still be within radar range many hours later when you come back up after going deep, because they slow down and zig even after the DD's rejoin, thus they do not move far, so can pop up, make an end around and attack again, esp once they quit making evasive moves and set back on a steady course and speed, thus easier to fire at and hit.I've been in several 3-4 day running battles with convoys and destroyed every merchant doing this, fun stuff.As Mush Morton said to O Kane "Tenacity Dick, stay with the bastard till he's on the bottom"

[Armistead]

I never make hard turns. When a dd goe's over me, hit flank and I'll turn about 20%. When the charges blow, I slow down to 2kts.

I found before if I made hard turns..it slowed me down and I often turned right into the charges thrown by Y or K guns...think about it....They usually shoot two rounds from the Y guns. Why turn into them, a small turn works better for me.

By just a 20% turn, it's enough to get from under the stern dropped charges, but not enough to get hit by the Y gun charges, usually I'm in the middle and both fall behind.

Plus, I'm still on a straight line headed out of the circle of death. Sure sometimes I'll turn to give a narrow profile, but I never hard turn when a dd passes over.

I now stay at 250 ft or less if I still plan to shoot, actually about 150 ft and dodge the charges. If I'm done and evading to get out, I'll go deep as I can. If there are mean dd's above with 6 Y guns, I'm headed for the deep regardless.

Course right before my torps hit, I'm turning tail, hitting flank and hope to be long gone before the dd's arrive looking. Letting go my stern torps if something needs them.

[Rockin Robbins]

I've been in several 3-4 day running battles with convoys and destroyed every merchant doing this, fun stuff.As Mush Morton said to O Kane "Tenacity Dick, stay with the bastard till he's on the bottom"
And that's the genius of Ducimus' Trigger Maru Overhauled! No other mod can deliver this kind of perilous and sustained action, where just about every decision throughout a days long battle is a life or death decision. TMO 1.8 is just epic!

The best triumph is watching the escorts, with nothing left to escort, just steaming away in different directions.

[Morpheus]

...TMO 1.8 is just epic!...
Thats some interessting information :)

There is a v1.8 of TMO?

morph

[Armistead]

It's a beta but plays fine. Just don't trust your crew for visuals:haha:

[I'm goin' down]

TMO 1.7--After two attempts I finally got through a line of 3 dd's in the Tokyo-Saipan convoy mission located in the single mission thread. The convoy was big, and was initially way behind the destroyers. I thought it was were coming at my boat. I plotted and started the clock. Since the convoy was 4 rows, three deep, I plotted its likely course by running the ruler/course line on the navigation map through what I thought were the three ships on the same course. I switched to periscope view and entered data for manual targeting, except for speed as 3 minutes had not elapsed. When I checked the navigation may after 3 minutes elapsed, I could not figure out which way any of the three plotted ship's turned. My projection of their course was useless. Meanwhile, the dds were bombing the heck out of my boat. I fired six shots hoping for a miracle. Nada. The depth charges started. I gave it up after four compartments had hull damage, men were down on the deck, and compartments were flooding. TMO? It will hurt you. :wah: