2 game months and not so much as a sonar contact...

[treblesum81]

Hi all,

Over the last week or two, I've been running career start after career start with the same results. I'll start the career, run it for a couple of months during the first patrol, and not get so much as a radar contact for weeks (though I do get lots of planes to hide from...), after which time, I promptly get bored and start a new career in the hopes that something different will happen. Now I know this probably isn't the right response to this situation, but I need to be able to find something to shoot at, because I can't just sit here watching a dot rove around a map and call it enjoyment.

I'm left wondering what the culprit(s) of such empty seas are, and what steps I can take to fix the problem without totally killing the realism of the game or the historical accuracy. Right now I'm running RFB + RSRDC, I always start at the beginning of the war, though sometimes I start from Pearl and sometimes I start from Manila. I also tend to run at about 1024 TC with dipping stops every 2-4 game hours to listen for contacts. I'm even basing my search areas off of the traffic maps available from various mods here, but sadly, none of this is producing acceptable results.

Now when I say acceptable, mean that I need to be able to find at least one thing per real day of game play (figure 1-3 hours at best) to hunt / shoot at in order for me to justify spending more time on the game. This may sound a little hard line, but, as I said before, I don't find watching the dot move around the map to be exciting. I've tried letting the game run on low tc (x64 ish) while I'm doing homework, but its not producing any better results, though at least I'm not staring at a dot...

So my question is whats causing the dearth of contacts? Is it RFB? RSRDC? When I'm starting the careers? Where I'm starting the careers? Where I'm searching? How I'm searching?

Also, if there is some component there that needs to be removed, how can I retain historical accuracy? I've been told before that RSRDC could be the cause, as it makes the most changes to the campaign layers, but I also don't want the stock games blatant inaccuracies, or at least what I've been told to be blatant inaccuracies.

I also want to mention that I had this same problem in SH3 for a long time before I found SH3 map contact mod which then allowed me to find something to shoot at much easier without screwing too much with the campaign layers. I know from previous conversations that the only way I can get contacts back is to remove RSRDC or hand edit some 17,000 campaign files, of which the former is the most logical, but that goes back to the desire not to lose the historical accuracy.

Anyway, I'll stop the ramble here, but I would like to know what I can do to beat this game into line with what I want from it. Should I just dump RSRDC, or will that just cost me the accuracy without guaranteeing me better hunting? Has the map contacts mod been updated to SH4 that I just don't know about? Or are there other options that I might pursue to improve my contact rate without messing with the rest of the game?

Thanks,
Greg

[treblesum81]

One other thing I wanted to add is that I don't have much interest in single missions because they are scripted. I want to have the chance to find something big or something small, but at least something.

I know I'm sounding somewhat picky here, but I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one who's ever wanted more action with less time in between, while not giving up a war-long career, or the historical accuracy of the war in the process...

[donut]

If you get your game back to stock, then add mods one at a time to find cause. I have played thru the war 4 times. Never experienced discribed.

[Hitman]

I don't think you are having a bug here, it is just that RSRD provides historical traffic both in quantity and routes, and if you are away from the hot areas you will not find much to shoot at.

If you want to keep RSRD and its historically reduced targets, I would strongly suggest having a look at the info provided with the mod and try to hunt in spots where ships must get through sooner or later, like the Luzon or Formosa Straits, and of course the japanese coast near the entrances to the inner sea and main harbour cities. Beware that ships might actually -as they did in real life- be hugging close to the coast to have additional protection.

Finally, ensure that you start careers at least in late 1942 so you can have radar. This will ensure that anything in a 50 km circle around you gets detected.

Have fun :salute:

[SteamWake]

One of the things these mods strive for is reality.

You sir have found reality.

Quite often the mission assigned to you would take you far from the action. You go to that mission area and see nothing but the odd sampan. Why? Because the war is a thousand or so miles to the south of you. Unfortunatly the missions issued are NOT tied to any real stragic location or events generated by the mods. I guess the modders never cracked that nut.

Furthermore it was not uncommon for a sub crew to go days, weeks, months, indeed entire patrols without firing a single shot in anger. Thats reality.

But this is a game and that would be boring.

So what to do?

First of all forget that mission unless your willing to bob around for 96 hours for a couple hundred renown. Maybe we need a fishing minigame :rotfl2:

Secondly pay attention to the flash traffic often recieved (with RFB) they will often mention RJN activities complete with expected date, time, and approximate location. Thats where the action is ;)

Lastley do a little study as to the war in the pacific note major events and the spread of the RJN major invasions and surface engagements and their dates. Often these will be generated by the mods.

When in doubt cruise 'the slot' your almost sure to run into something there ;)

Ill leave it up to you to find out where 'the slot' is :salute:

[Bubblehead1980]

RSRD is the culprit, while a great mod and I enjoyed, I do not run it due to time limitations, I am busy and when I play, want a chance of finding something.RSRD spawns a convoy once in the appropriate timeframe, then its gone after it reaches its destination.Singles ships are more common, esp in 41, 42 and most of 43.Due to time, I became bored taking out unescorted ships, just too easy, however it is good practice.

As a compromise, I run TMO without RSRD, TMO is pretty accurate on most things, takes license with few things but its a fine balace with reality and playability.TMO is my favorite mod because the escorts are rather tough to handle.The traffic in TMO is pretty realistic, meaning it's not a shooting gallery like stock but its not RSRD, you chances of running into something are much higher than RSRD.

Remove RSRD, run RFB or TMO alone and see your chances improve.Don't give up because SH 4 is great, esp with all the great mods out there and so many great ones coming down the pike.Good luck.

[treblesum81]

I was just going to ask if anyone thought that either RFB or TMO would be better on their own for me. I personally prefer TMO, but somehow ended up with RFB out of a desire for accuracy, but that seems to be more of a hindrance to my gameplay rather than a benefit. I'll give TMO a try without RSRDC and see what I can come up with.

[Armistead]

I usually have no problems with TMO RSRD. For the first time in 5 months I went from Feb. to April without a contact. It was early war and I was trying new locations.

[G2B]

Running TMO RSRD I usually go to my patrol area pull up the shipping lane map and look for a "choke" point or convergance area close by or I look into my crystal periscope and do a little research on where IJN units were at the time.

Found the landing forces in Lingayen Gulf on 21 December 1941 just from knowing they should be there, what a sweet site it was, especially the smoke and flames against the night sky :D

Just remember to show up early for a good seat and wait for them.

[Rockin Robbins]

Playing TMO plus RSRD I always concentrate on completing missions and filing for new ones with a radio call to base when I complete the one I'm working on. I never go out of my way to find targets and always end up out of torpedoes before I've completed four missions. I have on occasion run out of torpedoes on the way to my first mission and returned to base without completing even one mission.

That being said, early in the war contacts can be few if you are not in the task force or convoy lanes. Find a map and learn where those lanes were early in the war. There will be targets aplenty, especially out of Cavite.

[Randomizer]

In TMO/RSRD I'm sitting on the Manila-Rabaul shipping lane (as per orders) and attacking about one ship per day on station. They are out there.

[treblesum81]

I believe they are out there, I'm just having trouble finding them... my crew is blind and can't hear anything also for some reason, so I end up finding open water most of the time...

I've also found that just because something is supposed to be there at a certain time or place, its not necessarily there, at least for me. I've been trying to intercept the Borneo attack fleet for a couple of days now just to see if it is where it should be, but even though I'm patrolling the waters where the invasion landed, I can't find a single ship visually or by sound. The more this goes on, the more I'm thinking about finding (or making) a mod that will give me radar right off the bat so I at least have a larger search radius to work with, even if it isn't historically accurate...

[Rockin Robbins]

You could also start your career later in the war when you would have radar.

[Armistead]

Give me the date and your general location and I'll try and send you to a
50 ship convoy.

[treblesum81]

Give me the date and your general location and I'll try and send you to a
50 ship convoy.


Right now I'm in the San Bernadino Straight, but just known a better idea of where everything is would be great. Do you have a resource that can help me out in this area? Or are you just going off of personal experience?

[Armistead]

Right now I'm in the San Bernadino Straight, but just known a better idea of where everything is would be great. Do you have a resource that can help me out in this area? Or are you just going off of personal experience?


I keep SS's and files where I find large convoys and TF's.....mostly the large invasion forces.

If you're preparing for the battle of the San Bernadino Straits...you're in the right place.

[Armistead]

I started getting a lot of plane traffic...non-ending. Why dived I checked sonar and got a faint contact....turned out to be two carriers. Trying to do a end around, but they know I'm there. Got one of those long line of about 40 planes going back and forth from me to the carriers...almost funny, except every 30 seconds 4 planes drop bombs on me...so I stay deep and the carrier is scooting away.

[treblesum81]

That sounds great, except for me I get nothing, silence, nothing, silence, and then nothing again... Maybe its the date range (Dec 10th-15th), but I'm still finding nothing at all...

[Armistead]

As stated RSRD reduces overall stock traffic, but it's still there. RSRD concentrates more on realistic TF's and convoys. So by knowing where they go, you'll find much more. Take the following map. http://combinedfleet.com/battles/ Almost all these battles and invasions take place in RSRD, so if your in the area you stand a good chance of finding them, better with good surface radar. Doesn't mean you will, you have to hit the right spot for them to spawn, but you have a good chance.

What year are you playing?

[treblesum81]

Career start at the beginning of the war, '41, I know traffic is lighter then, but I think that a couple of weeks of gameplay without so much as a torpedo fired in anger is pretty ridiculous...

[treblesum81]

Here's another question... should I bother to try and be in the historical place and time of some of the biggest battles? Also, has RSRDC managed to put them in their correct locations? So if I find the lat / lon of the battles, there they will be?

[Armistead]

If you find the right long/lat..it's a good place to start. You won't always find them in the exact historical spot, but almost always they're usually 50 nm from the historical spot, if not in the spot. Mostly it's a matter of time, being at the right distance and time so a TF will spawn.

Some battles it's easy to find them, like the battle of San Bern Strait. Just be in the strait on the right day, Oct 25, 44 and Kurita's center force will show up. I prefer the Surigao Strait the day before. The jap TF will come from the South late on the 24, early 25, but there will be two US TF from the N. Usually, the US DD force will attack the jap TF first and then the larger US TF will attack. You can get in the middle and pick off the damaged ships. Then if you have enough torps, head quickly early morning NE out of the strait and you can run into Kurita's Center Force that came through the San Bern. Straits. It will turn back North, so you have to cut it off as it goe's back through the straits. The US Jeep Carrier TF will also show up and often the dd's will do battle with the japs. If you study the battle of Leyte, RSRD doe's a great job of reproducing it.

The slot in the Solomon's is a fun place. There are many large DD TF running the slot, but hard to hit unless you use the OKane attack method.
I prefer to wait for the big boys. Again, this map is the place to start.
http://combinedfleet.com/battles/ Study the Solomon campaign, look for the large battles and find them. Sometimes you will, sometimes not.
Most the time the TF and convoys coming down the slot go around Tulagi and come back in. If you have surface radar, it's fun to just trail them and see what paths they follow as many of the others do the same. If you wait and follow they will usually end up in surface battles. That's a good time to attack. Almost always several ships dead on the water from damage and one torp will do them in. Fun watching ships duke it out with planes joining in. I've been in battles with surface fleets shooting it out and planes from both sides attacking. Just be careful with all the contacts a plane doesn't bomb you.



At the start of the war with Manila as your base you have several options to hit some big targets. There is a large invasion force headed to Lingayen Gulf. I prefer to cut it off at about 119.50Ex19N or just go sit outside the gulf and wait. There is a BB TF that runs close to it about 40 miles west headed elsewhere. After the Lingayen invasion, you can wait near Vigen for another invasion force.

If you want some BB's, head over to Camranh bay from the start. A large TF invades the bay. If you go straight there just wait in the deeper water outside of the bay, they'll show up in a day or so. Once they make it into the bay...then reach the despawn point and vanish. However, you can pick up several TF in this area the first month of the war.

Once you lose Manila and dock at Surabaya, there will be a large Java invasion force. I prefer to cut it off at near Tawi Tawi, but I've chased it all over the Pacific. It's my favorite convoy to attack, because the ships are loaded and one torp usually blows them to hell:D. I blew one ship up last night and the explosion blew up 3 nearby ships. It has about 50 ships in it...Here is a SS where I last attacked it. http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2009-09-20_033142_937.jpg All it all I usually pick it up between the lane near Jolo, from there it goes to Java and back. I once chased it over 800 nms sinking over 20 ships. I carry M10's early war...cuz they work...
Just be careful attacking in the shallow water, but usally it's windy.

Take Borneo..all the cities listed will have invasion fleets sitting outside them at the correct time...

One of the best places to find ships is the Bismark Sea.....

That enough..........

[treblesum81]

I really appreciate it, and I really hope it pans out. I'm steaming towards the Camranh area now on an assignment right out of the briefing room on Dec. 9th '41, so I'll detour a little and see what I can find there. Hopefully its just that I've been having bad luck rather than something else going wrong with my install.

Thanks again,
Greg

[DigitalAura]

I made the same plea not long ago here, treble...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155540


In that picture that Armistead pasted, notice the map/radio player in the top left hand corner? If you drag that thing down it is an actual map of the shipping lanes. It shows you the high traffic areas for shipping. If you're not in one of those lanes, you'll only ever find fishing vessels and junks.

[Armistead]

I really appreciate it, and I really hope it pans out. I'm steaming towards the Camranh area now on an assignment right out of the briefing room on Dec. 9th '41, so I'll detour a little and see what I can find there. Hopefully its just that I've been having bad luck rather than something else going wrong with my install.

Thanks again,
Greg

Usually the patrol star is more east of the bay...just get as close in as deep water will allow....by deep I mean 75 ft or so.:O:

For some reason I usually run into stormy weather there...so prepare for that.

[DigitalAura]

Btw, Treble... that's a cute bonnet you're wearing! careful below decks! :D