Today is Battle of Britain day.

[ABBAFAN]

69 yrs ago today the RAF defeated the Luftwaffe and saved the free world. Without Tom Cruise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43zVRey2XEs

[Oberon]

:salute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43zVRey2XEs

[Dowly]

Repeat please!

[stabiz]

I am glad you guys won, but just like in Star Wars the dark side had so much cooler stuff.:O:

[Oberon]

I am glad you guys won, but just like in Star Wars the dark side had so much cooler stuff.:O:

Spit-fire :O:

[HunterICX]

Spit-fire :O:

''Achtung Spitfueyaah!!!'' :yeah:

HunterICX

[Biggles]

''Achtung Spitfueyaah!!!'' :yeah:

HunterICX

The last thing you wanted to hear as a Luftwaffe pilot:yep:

[Raptor1]

Question time!

What other important event in the history of modern warfare happened today (In a rather less celebrated battle)?

[AVGWarhawk]

Spit-fire :O:

:yep:

One of the top 5 most beautiful and deadly birds engineered as a result of WW2!

[ABBAFAN]

Burning of Washington?

[AVGWarhawk]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/avgwarhawk/WW2Weekend048-1.jpg

[HunterICX]

Question time!

What other important event in the history of modern warfare happened today (In a rather less celebrated battle)?

The tank beeing used for the first time at the Battle of the Somme?

HunterICX

[Raptor1]

The tank beeing used for the first time at the Battle of the Somme?

HunterICX

Yup

[DeerHunter UK]

Be gone from my sight foul Griffon engine Spitfire! Behold the beauty of a Merlin engined Spit. :D

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6158/spitfirestartup.jpg

[antikristuseke]

The 109 still looks better than the spit.

[trekchu]

The 109 still looks better than the spit.

HERESY HERESY I TELL YOU! :nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

The 109 still looks better than the spit.

How could a 109 pilot tell? The spit was always behind him. :O:

[antikristuseke]

By diving away, then getting on the spits tail and having a look.

[Freiwillige]

The Spitfire vs 109E debate officially starts here<------

Both aircraft were closely matched in that pilot skill more often than not decided the outcome. The luftwaffe seemed to hold the upper hand in this regard. Fighter tactics also initially favored the Luftwaffe with the advent of the schwarm Vs the Vic used by the R.A.F.

Both aircraft were deadly and beautiful although it is my opinion that the Spitfire was more beautiful and artistic almost like a racing plane that grew guns while the Emil looked Engineered for war and was quit menacing looking.

I fly both regularly in a few Sims and in the end I have to give it to the 109E simply for the paint jobs the Luft boys threw on there crates:03:

[Raptor1]

Pfft, the single most beautiful aircraft of the Battle of Britain:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/365/13872734.jpg

All hail the Flying Pencil!

[AVGWarhawk]

The Spitfire vs 109E debate officially starts here<------

Both aircraft were closely matched in that pilot skill more often than not decided the outcome. The luftwaffe seemed to hold the upper hand in this regard. Fighter tactics also initially favored the Luftwaffe with the advent of the schwarm Vs the Vic used by the R.A.F.

Both aircraft were deadly and beautiful although it is my opinion that the Spitfire was more beautiful and artistic almost like a racing plane that grew guns while the Emil looked Engineered for war and was quit menacing looking.

I fly both regularly in a few Sims and in the end I have to give it to the 109E simply for the paint jobs the Luft boys threw on there crates:03:


Yeah that is all good and stuff but the Luft boys lost :O:

[Biggles]

Yeah that is all good and stuff but the Luft boys lost :O:

AND they asked for a squadron of Spitfires! It's true, I've seen it in a movie!:D

(But seriously, I think that it actually happened...)

[Raptor1]

AND they asked for a squadron of Spitfires! It's true, I've seen it in a movie!:D

(But seriously, I think that it actually happened...)

Oh, as far as I know, it did happen

[AVGWarhawk]

The business end. This is a Super Marine Spit. It would have all been over a few days earlier for the Luftwaffels if these were available to fly.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/avgwarhawk/WW2Weekend049.jpg

[SteamWake]

I just watched a documentry on the spitfire just the other night.

To this day the sound of that Merlin growling by sends a chill down my spine.

I also own the original movie. Might just watch it tonight.

Tally ho !

[antikristuseke]

Yeah that is all good and stuff but the Luft boys lost :O:

But generally not because of inferior hardware, though with the spit and 109, both have their advantages and disadvantages.



Both aircraft were deadly and beautiful although it is my opinion that the Spitfire was more beautiful and artistic almost like a racing plane that grew guns while the Emil looked Engineered for war and was quit menacing looking.


That's why I think the 109 looks better, it looks more purposeful and that lends it beauty.

[Raptor1]

The Luftwaffe lost by the incredible ruining of a relatively sound campaign plan by political leaders, a trend which eventually escalated to cause the loss the war for Germany.

[AVGWarhawk]

But generally not because of inferior hardware, though with the spit and 109, both have their advantages and disadvantages.



No way am I going to get dragged into that argument. Next thing we know SS will look like the IL2 forums with my pixel plane is better than your pixel plane heated threads :doh:

[JU_88]

Pfft, the single most beautiful aircraft of the Battle of Britain:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/365/13872734.jpg

All hail the Flying Pencil!

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/mus/europe/norway/pics/heinkel%20he-111.jpg

All hail the "SPADE!" :yeah:
quirky offset nose = character

Edit: is that a dude in the white shorts? (just behind the bomb doors)
If so - CALL THE FASHION POLICE!
Just because its the 80s, that is no excuse to ruin a perfectly good He 111 shot with your pasty man legs goddamn it!

[Biggles]

Always thought this one was a real beauty!
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/uk/boulton_paul/defiant/Mk1%20Defiant.jpg

[JU_88]

No way am I going to get dragged into that argument. Next thing we know SS will look like the IL2 forums with my pixel plane is better than your pixel plane heated threads :doh:


ROFL if thats anything like the 'pixel fleet boat vs the pixel Uboat' arguments of yesteryear.Then i god i hope not!

If i ever post in a U-boat vs fleet boat thread - please shoot me! :oops:

[Raptor1]

Always thought this one was a real beauty!


Though not very useful in a dogfight, at least after the LW learned how to deal with them.

[AVGWarhawk]

ROFL if thats anything like the 'pixel fleet boat vs the pixel Uboat' arguments of yesteryear.Then i god i hope not!

If i ever post in a U-boat vs fleet boat thread - please shoot me! :oops:

My pixel boat is better that your pixel boat :O:

Can't forget this unsung hero:


http://www.mayhemphotographics.co.uk/USERIMAGES/Hawker-Hurricane(1).jpg

[antikristuseke]

No way am I going to get dragged into that argument. Next thing we know SS will look like the IL2 forums with my pixel plane is better than your pixel plane heated threads :doh:

Heh, indeed. But as long as it wont look like 4chan it should be relatively fine.

[Biggles]

Though not very useful in a dogfight, at least after the LW learned how to deal with them.

Oh I know it had horribly bad performances. But it's a beaut!:yeah:

[Oberon]

My pixel boat is better that your pixel boat :O:

Can't forget this unsung hero:





*hugs Hurricane*

I do love the Spitfire, but the Hurricane has a special place in my heart. :up:

But yeah, the 109 was a hefty machine but had a number of disadvantages in the campaign, the chief of which IMHO was the five minutes combat time over the South coast, that and having Fatty as general commander of the Luftwaffe.
The armament disparity is not so great because there were cannon armed Spits and Hurris in the BOB just few and far between.

Still, next year will be the big 70! I wonder what events will be going on in the UK to celebrate it, perhaps I can finally save up enough money to get across to Duxford, that'll be the place to be I suspect, that or Biggin Hill.

[Freiwillige]

Oh, as far as I know, it did happen

It is true! Adolph Galland said it to Goering during a meeting in which Goering was berating the Jagdwaffe for cowardliness. Goering ordered the fighters to stay close to the bombers and Galland argued that that would make the 109E a defensive weapon and take away all advantages!

Goering stood firm and then asked what he could do for the fighter force to help. Galland replied "Give me a squadron of Spitfires." Goering was infuriated by this and stormed off.

Post war Galland explained this famous quote.
Of course I did not think that the Spitfire was superior to the 109. Its just that the 109 is better suited to a certain set of tactics. For the slow close escort role the Spitfire with its low speed turning performance was better suited for the defensive role. The 109E was more of an offensive weapon.

[Shearwater]

Meh you're all wrong. For true, beauty, all of those planes are short of a couple of wings :O:(though that's OT in a BoB thread :DL). I love the mid-30s Hawker biplanes (Hind, Hart, Fury etc.).

But I'd say that the He-111 is the most beautiful plane in this thread (though I like the civilian version even better). And yes, I think it's a dude, but thb the pink shirt next to him doesn't help the overall impression either ;)

[Stealth Hunter]

How could a 109 pilot tell? The spit was always behind him. :O:

The Heinkel fliegers took pics for him.

http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2004/pics/spitandother.jpg

Seems to be having a little engine trouble.

[SteamWake]

The thing that made the ME109 so freakin awsom was that hellacious cannon in its nose.

Shame you had to be within 50 meters to hit anything with it :haha:

My all time favorites (although again out of era) The North American P51D and of course the Lockheed Lightning P38 (and its varients).

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/p38.jpg

I now return you to the previous era ;)

[SteamWake]

Here is proof that Spits had balls !

A screen grab from the Spitfire documentry I watched.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/PDVD_002.jpg

No really what the heck is that red ball thing at the top of the canopy.

[antikristuseke]

A ball gag from the previous bender?

[Schroeder]

The thing that made the ME109 so freakin awsom was that hellacious cannon in its nose.

Shame you had to be within 50 meters to hit anything with it :haha:

Out of era too.:O:
The 30mm cannon was introduced with the 109G6 as an option and was mainly used to attack heavy bombers. That is about two years after BoB. The BoB's 109 Emils had two 20mm MG FFs in their wings and two 7,92mm MG 17s in their noses.:yep:

BTW in the Me 262 the weapon convergence for the 30mm Mk 108 was set to 800m. So much for having to be within 50m.;)
(But that was only used for attacking bombers of course)

[HunterICX]

I pretty much like all the aircraft that took part in BoB, I like the one more then the other but thats just a matter of taste

my favorite plane of the war though is the Hawker Typhoon/Tempest
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4774/hawkertyphoon.jpg

HunterICX

[Oberon]

Out of era too.:O:
The 30mm cannon was introduced with the 109G6 as an option and was mainly used to attack heavy bombers. That is about two years after BoB. The BoB's 109 Emils had two 20mm MG FFs in their wings and two 7,92mm MG 17s in their noses.:yep:

BTW in the Me 262 the weapon convergence for the 30mm Mk 108 was set to 800m. So much for having to be within 50m.;)
(But that was only used for attacking bombers of course)

Don't forget the E-3s 20mm cannon though Schroeder... :03:

Although most pilots hated it and got it removed. :arrgh!:

[Sledgehammer427]

ahhh the typhoon. pretty, but gigantic.

I was always one for LaGG-3's, or Corsairs

[Schroeder]

Don't forget the E-3s 20mm cannon though Schroeder... :03:

Although most pilots hated it and got it removed. :arrgh!:
Oops... you are right. I never even heard of that configuration.:oops:

(if I keep up failing like that I will loose my rank as smartass first class again.:damn:)

[Oberon]

Oops... you are right. I never even heard of that configuration.:oops:

(if I keep up failing like that I will loose my rank as smartass first class again.:damn:)

To be fair neither had I until I saw one in the Battle of Britain Hall at the RAF Museum :03:

http://www.targeta.co.uk/images/071_0108w5.jpg

[DeerHunter UK]

Here's my kite I flew in during the Battle of France campaign with my squadron, The Tangmere Pilots.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4814/mothy.jpg

I can't remember which TP made this joke advert for me, 1 for the Brits though.

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/6638/moggy.jpg

[antikristuseke]

Out of era too.:O:
The 30mm cannon was introduced with the 109G6 as an option and was mainly used to attack heavy bombers. That is about two years after BoB. The BoB's 109 Emils had two 20mm MG FFs in their wings and two 7,92mm MG 17s in their noses.:yep:



The 109F-1 allso had a 20mm MG-FF/M engine mounted cannons, something that the engineerrs didnt particularly like but pilots asked for. In the F models the 20mm MG-FF/M was replaced with the MG-151/15 15mm cannon from the F-2 model onwards and replaced again with the MG-151/20 20mm engine cannon from the F-4 model onwards.

[Schroeder]

The 109F-1 allso had a 20mm MG-FF/M engine mounted cannons, something that the engineerrs didnt particularly like but pilots asked for. In the F models the 20mm MG-FF/M was replaced with the MG-151/15 15mm cannon from the F-2 model onwards and replaced again with the MG-151/20 20mm engine cannon from the F-4 model onwards.
Yes, but that was after BoB and you could definitely use it from much farther away than just 50m. That's why I think that SteamWake is talking about the slow firing 30mm MK108 that was used in later models when the Luftwaffe switched from attacking to defending and therefore needed more fire power against the allied heavies.

[sharkbit]

Here is proof that Spits had balls !

A screen grab from the Spitfire documentry I watched.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/PDVD_002.jpg

No really what the heck is that red ball thing at the top of the canopy.

It is a standby attitude indicator-always pointing down to the ground.:D

[sharkbit]

To be fair neither had I until I saw one in the Battle of Britain Hall at the RAF Museum :03:

http://www.targeta.co.uk/images/071_0108w5.jpg

Awesome museum!!:yeah:
I was there about 20 years ago for a seminar. We got to go inside a couple of the planes. One of the highlights of my life was sitting in the cockpit of the Lancaster that was there.:sunny:

:)

[sharkbit]

The Heinkel fliegers took pics for him.

http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2004/pics/spitandother.jpg

Seems to be having a little engine trouble.

Yeah, but that Spitfire pilot will be back at the pub in a few hours and available to fly the next day, while all the shot down 109, He-111, Do-17 crews will be marching into the POW cages. :D

[sharkbit]

I always found it interesting how the Spitfire gets the fame and glory in the BoB(It is a pretty sexy airplane :03:) and the Hurricane seems to get shorted it's share of the fame.

There were about twice as many Hurricane squadrons than Spitfire Squadrons during the BoB.

:)

[Raptor1]

Yes, but that was after BoB and you could definitely use it from much farther away than just 50m. That's why I think that SteamWake is talking about the slow firing 30mm MK108 that was used in later models when the Luftwaffe switched from attacking to defending and therefore needed more fire power against the allied heavies.

Though the MG FFs, due to their slower muzzle velocity, had a rather shorter effective range than the MG 151 (But not 50m).

I think my favourite (monoplane) fighters of WWII were the P-39 (Best looking piston fighter ever IMO) and the He 162 (I like it, no idea why)

http://www.world-war-2-planes.com/images/p39_russian_550.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/He162_color010.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

repeat please!
Silence! In Polish!

[Sailor Steve]

AND they asked for a squadron of Spitfires! It's true, I've seen it in a movie!:D

(But seriously, I think that it actually happened...)
Yup. In real life it played out just like in the movie, but it was Adolph Galland, not some fictional hero named 'Falke'. Read his excellent book, The First And The Last.

[AVGWarhawk]

I always found it interesting how the Spitfire gets the fame and glory in the BoB(It is a pretty sexy airplane :03:) and the Hurricane seems to get shorted it's share of the fame.

There were about twice as many Hurricane squadrons than Spitfire Squadrons during the BoB.

:)

Yes sir...I posted a picture of the unsung hero named Hurricane a few pages back! :up:

[OneToughHerring]

I like the Morane-Saulnier, too bad the Frenchies didn't stay in the war that long. Finns had some Morane's as well, they called them "Mörkö" - Morane's. :)

http://www.acesofww2.com/france/french-MS-406.jpg

[Freiwillige]

The French had some good aircraft. The dewoitine 520 was the best fighter in their air force to fight the Germans. 3 Days later it was the Germans best Trainer!

:haha:

[Biggles]

What about this one? Scored the first RAF kill in WWII!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Fairey_Battle.jpg