1.5 MILLION at DC Tea Party

[CastleBravo]

Saturday, September 12, 2009.

This was the number, 1.5 million, ABC reported.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDm9j2s39ww&feature=related

[FIREWALL]

Saturday, September 12, 2009.

This was the number, 1.5 million, ABC reported.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDm9j2s39ww&feature=related


And just think how many if it had been a Beer Party. :haha:

[Task Force]

And just think how many if it had been a Beer Party. :haha:

Half of the US...

[CastleBravo]

I dont think MLK drew that many folks to listen to him speak.

These folks came out to voice their independent opinions. Without a clear leader. Hello, think about it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Sadly Congress and Obama will not listen. It would seem they all have a hard-on for taking care of us. Even Pelosi has a hard-on. :doh: Then we hear that we should just vote them out next time around. Weeeeellllll the deed is already done by that time, no?

[CastleBravo]

Sadly Congress and Obama will not listen. It would seem they all have a hard-on for taking care of us. Even Pelosi has a hard-on. :doh: Then we hear that we should just vote them out next time around. Weeeeellllll the deed is already done by that time, no?

Not if the folks elected are on the repeal page. Let us remember that the bill(s) under discussion won't take effect until 2013. But it is a crisis now!

The lies have caught up to the liberals, POTUS included.

[AVGWarhawk]

Never the less something will get passed....if not just in spite. :88)

[OneToughHerring]

Half of the US...

And all of Wisconsin. :haha:

[SteamWake]

LOL CNN put their estimate at 10,000. Finally CNN takes a conservative stance :rotfl2:

[AVGWarhawk]

LOL CNN put their estimate at 10,000. Finally CNN takes a conservative stance :rotfl2:

Yeah..really...don't let CNN make it more that what it really was! :doh:

[Aramike]

And all of Wisconsin. :haha:You're damned right ... as long as we could get back in time for the Packers game.

[Tribesman]

LOL CNN put their estimate at 10,000. Finally CNN takes a conservative stance
Yeah they should have gone with the local police and fire dept who put the crowd at 70,000

[Platapus]

So do these teabaggers offer any practical solutions?

[CaptainHaplo]

Platypus... They sure did...

Its called stop spending all OUR money on welfare programs for everything from corporations to illegal immigrants, stop running up our debt at every turn.

I don't think they should spend my money on most things the government does - and whats more - I don't think they should spend YOUR money either.

Taxpayers Bill of Rights I say - including line item tax forms stipulating what the taxes we pay can go to.

Know why liberals don't want that? The military, essential services and such would be just about the only things that would get funded.

ACORN, Planned Parenthood, etc etc would all get ALOT less money if the people got to decide what they paid for.

[Tribesman]

So do these teabaggers offer any practical solutions?

No they just like to shout empty rhetoric about taxes, practical solutions are quite beyond their ken.

[Platapus]

This is why the decisions on what to spend money on are not left up to the citizens. Every citizen would have their personal opinions on what is important and not important.

For every program you think is important, there will be another citizen who thinks it is not important. Public opinion is no way to run a country. This is why we are not a democracy but a republic (and that is a good thing!)

Its called stop spending all OUR money on welfare programs for everything from corporations to illegal immigrants, stop running up our debt at every turn.

That is what I was asking about. That is an emotional response not a practical one. Do the teabaggers have a plan for implementing this change in a way that does not totally disrupt our nation? We can't just yank all funding from a program without a plan? Just because some of them don't like a program does not mean it is a bad program.

Instead of the waving of signs, why don't these people stay in their own state and work to make the system better. If they don't like their current representative, then find a better one and start working the campaign to get them elected? Seems to me to be way better than just hanging around in parking lots whining.

In the mean time, instead of hanging around in parking lots, why don't they write to their current representative and offer a practical plan? Better yet, why don't they take some of the energy and start working with their state congresses to fix the problem.

It appears to me that the teabaggers are more interested in mobs and publicity than actually working to fix the problem. :nope:

[magic452]

May be they are doing it for the same reasons that Martin Luther King supporters did it or the anti war marches of the 60's did it. Or so many others did it when they felt their voices weren't being heard.
They weren't just hanging around in parking lots whining.

To belittle American citizens for exercising the right to free speech and freedom to assemble is very small indeed.

You have no idea of what other actions these people have taken. They may have done all the things you suggest and felt it wasn't enough.

Yes they do have a plan and it is being put forth by their elected representatives in Congress but the other side will not even listen to them.
Or at least they won't listen unless they get public support.

In the local town hall meetings they were discounted as right wing nut jobs or professional disruptors or even worse and all this by the present administration and news media.

They are taking action to be heard now because they believe that two or four years from now will be too late.

This is as it should be in a free America.

Magic

[Thomen]

May be they are doing it for the same reasons that Martin Luther King supporters did it or the anti war marches of the 60's did it. Or so many others did it when they felt their voices weren't being heard.
They weren't just hanging around in parking lots whining.

To belittle American citizens for exercising the right to free speech and freedom to assemble is very small indeed.

You have no idea of what other actions these people have taken. They may have done all the things you suggest and felt it wasn't enough.

Yes they do have a plan and it is being put forth by their elected representatives in Congress but the other side will not even listen to them.
Or at least they won't listen unless they get public support.

In the local town hall meetings they were discounted as right wing nut jobs or professional disruptors or even worse and all this by the present administration and news media.

They are taking action to be heard now because they believe that two or four years from now will be too late.

This is as it should be in a free America.

Magic

Good post! :yeah:

[Freiwillige]

Maybe people should take a look at the role of the federal government. It is not to be big brother, It is not to bully and threaten the states. It is not even to be the guide to The U.S. financial future. We are states before we are a country. With each state having certain rights within the nation, Hence the name United States. We are not called Federal conglomerate for a reason.
Taxes are actually quite specific in their intended nature.

Call me a wing nut or a moon bat but our founding fathers were actually against what we currently have. The farther we move away from the guidelines they set forth for us the closer to failure we become.

My 2 cents

[Tribesman]

They are taking action to be heard now because they believe that two or four years from now will be too late.

They are taking action to be heard now because they don't like the results of the election.
If they are opposing government healthcare where were they when medicare went into place ?
If they oppose the federal government eroding rights and trampling the constitution where were they when the Patriot act was created?
If they oppose government bailouts where were they when Bush signed TARP?

To belittle American citizens for exercising the right to free speech and freedom to assemble is very small indeed.

Is it? tell that to those who belittled protesters under the last administration

[Dread Knot]

Where is the outrage at Wall Street? The same guys that got billions of our money, and are right back into the same old swamp of cdo's, default swaps, astronomical bonsuses and all the other garbage that got us into this mess in the first place. I hated TARP, I hated bailing out the automakers that STILL went bankrupt. I am fine with rallying against wasteful government spending. I just can't figure out why there isn't any outrage and protesting against the very same entitled elite morons that got us into this financial mess, and are right back at it like nothing happened. In fact, they are scheming up new ways to gamble our economy. Take a look into their newest shell game. They are actually looking at buying out life insurance plans of those facing death, bundling these bought insurance plans as packages, and selling them to investors. If you die before your plan matures, BINGO, instant profit! Where is the outrage over this?

[August]

Where is the outrage at Wall Street? The same guys that got billions of our money, and are right back into the same old swamp of cdo's, default swaps, astronomical bonsuses and all the other garbage that got us into this mess in the first place. I hated TARP, I hated bailing out the automakers that STILL went bankrupt. I am fine with rallying against wasteful government spending. I just can't figure out why there isn't any outrage and protesting against the very same entitled elite morons that got us into this financial mess, and are right back at it like nothing happened. In fact, they are scheming up new ways to gamble our economy. Take a look into their newest shell game. They are actually looking at buying out life insurance plans of those facing death, bundling these bought insurance plans as packages, and selling them to investors. If you die before your plan matures, BINGO, instant profit! Where is the outrage over this?

http://howto-get-rich.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/2904143651_bb5975035e_o.jpg

[SteamWake]

They are taking action to be heard now because they don't like the results of the election.
If they are opposing government healthcare where were they when medicare went into place ?
If they oppose the federal government eroding rights and trampling the constitution where were they when the Patriot act was created?
If they oppose government bailouts where were they when Bush signed TARP?


Is it? tell that to those who belittled protesters under the last administration

Yep there all Racisist Bigoted Bush Loving mind numb Limbaugh following robots.

Could it just be possible that they have never seen so much done so quickly to press a liberal agenda and have a problem with that?

Nah that cant be there just pissed a black man is in office. :doh:

[Tribesman]

Yep there all Racisist Bigoted Bush Loving mind numb Limbaugh following robots.

Could it just be possible that they have never seen so much done so quickly to press a liberal agenda and have a problem with that?

Nah that cant be there just pissed a black man is in office.

Well Steamwake that must be one of the most epic failures in reading I have witnessed in quite some time.
So do tell, what on earth does your statement have to do with what you quoted?

[August]

If they are opposing government healthcare where were they when medicare went into place ?

That was in 1965. At the time I was 5 years old and I apologize for not having my anti-medicare arguments prepared. :roll:

[Sea Demon]

So do these teabaggers offer any practical solutions?

Here's a few off the top:

1. Expand health savings accounts.
2. Allow individual consumers to deduct the cost of their health insurance from their taxable income, just as their employers do.
3. Controls on medical malpractice suits.
4. Allow individuals to buy insurance across state lines.
5. Allow like groups to combine their numbers to buy large group health insurance policies.
6. Expand the treatment authority of nurse practitioners
7. End state imposed insurance mandates that drive insurance costs up.

This ain't all inclusive either. These ideas are much better than what the Democrats have put forth. These ideas above serve to create an environment for independence, self sufficiency, and dignity for the consumer and taxpayer. The Democrats only build plans that create dependence on the government, and burdens on taxpayers. One thing Democrats cannot allow is people to feel self-sufficient and independant. Hard to keep people shallow, weak, feeble, fearful, and on the government plantation that way.

[SteamWake]

Here's a few off the top:

1. Expand health savings accounts.
2. Allow individual consumers to deduct the cost of their health insurance from their taxable income, just as their employers do.
3. Controls on medical malpractice suits.
4. Allow individuals to buy insurance across state lines.
5. Allow like groups to combine their numbers to buy large group health insurance policies.
6. Expand the treatment authority of nurse practitioners
7. End state imposed insurance mandates that drive insurance costs up.

This ain't all inclusive either. These ideas are much better than what the Democrats have put forth. These ideas above serve to create an environment for independence, self sufficiency, and dignity for the consumer and taxpayer. The Democrats only build plans that create dependence on the government, and burdens on taxpayers. One thing Democrats cannot allow is people to feel self-sufficient and independant. Hard to keep people shallow, weak, feeble, fearful, and on the government plantation that way.

Nothing new here all these alternatives have been proposed, discussed, and dismissed or ignored.

Whats being overlooked here is that there is much more to this agenda than healthcare.

Its about expanding federal goverments reach and control.

That is what has people so dismayed.

[Sea Demon]

Nothing new here all these alternatives have been proposed, discussed, and dismissed or ignored.

Whats being overlooked here is that there is much more to this agenda than healthcare.

Its about expanding federal goverments reach and control.

That is what has people so dismayed.

Right. But I was just pointing out there are much better alternatives to the Democrats' horrifically bad plans. Since somebody else asked the question. Speaking of agendas...I agree with you. One thing the Democrats can't seem to answer is if Obamacare is so centered on healthcare reform, why do so many parts of the Obamacare plan benefit labor unions. Why do so many parts seem to promote unionization? Of course it's not about healthcare....it's about control.

[Tribesman]

That was in 1965. At the time I was 5 years old and I apologize for not having my anti-medicare arguments prepared.
So did you not have arguements prepared in 1997 2003 2006?

[magic452]

Is it? tell that to those who belittled protesters under the last administration.
I though that I did just that. I didn't single out any particular protest.
I support that right regardless of the cause and those that belittle any of them are very small indeed.

If they oppose government bailouts where were they when Bush signed TARP?
TARP was passed by a Democratic congress and signed by a Republican president. It was a hastily drawn up bill that was implemented all wrong.
The original intent was to do something about toxic mortgages. That may have done some good but by the time the politicians got done it turned out to be a big business spending spree. Those that opposed it were written off as nut jobs. Nobody knew what was in the bill because it had to be passed yesterday and there was little if any oversight.

The same thing happened with the so call Stimulus Package, 780 billion and next to zero results. This was little more than a liberal spending spree doing next to nothing about fixing the failing economy. Some of aims of it are worthwhile but doing it on borrowed money is not very smart.

There was plenty of opposition to that as well but to no avail. This again was crammed down out throats by THIS administration saying that it too had to pass yesterday, yet the vast majority of the money wasn't to be spent for several years. Obama said so in speech just recently.

Why should we make the same mistake again on health care.
Those other mistakes will go away in time but a health care mistake will live forever, yet this administration wanted it passed last month so nobody would know what was in the bill. SOS different day.

If they oppose the federal government eroding rights and trampling the constitution where were they when the Patriot act was created?
A more important question is where were you??????

This president is probability the most liberal of all time and yet he has not seen it necessary to repeal the Patriot Act but instead has purposed increasing it to include the internet. May be now that he is in a position to see what is really going on he also sees a need for it.

If they are opposing government healthcare where were they when medicare went into place ?
Medicare in it's original form was a very good idea, to insure the health and well being of those who spent a lifetime building this country. It was to be a pay as you go insurance program that those who participated in, would benefit from. That is a far cry from what is purposed today. It is only the mismanagement of the program that has caused the problems we have today and that only re-enforce the idea we should not go down that path again.

If a government run heath insurance program, in any form, passes, anyone, any were in the world with a serious medical condition and a plane ticket will be able to receive 100% no limit health care with no questions asked. That isn't in the bill you and the president say. Maybe not but the ACLU and the Supreme Court will surely make it so. If you have any doubts about this you must be living in some sort of dream world.
What is in the bill now will not be what is in the program 4, 5 or 10 years from now.

Our wonderful speaker of the house stated recently that the program would be paid for in part by cutting out waste and abuse. What a crock,
Health insurance for 300,000,000 people will be such a massive program that no entity in the world could administer efficiently, opening the flood gates to fraud and abuse. The total cost of this will be staggering.

Maybe TARP, Medicare and the others were mistakes, I don't think they ALL were, but many do. That is their right and I will defend that right and not call them names.

If there was no protest to them than, that does not preclude protest now.
Previous mistakes do not mean that we should make yet another one.

Where were they then? Doesn't matter! Where they are now and what they are doing now does.

Many people are fed up with BIG government running every aspect of their lives and are speaking out. They don't want more.

Just my $1.02 worth

Magic

[August]

So did you not have arguements prepared in 1997 2003 2006?


It's "arguments" and sure I did. What's your point?

[Tribesman]

What's your point?
The point is where were the crowds of people protesting when Medicare D was enacted , and where are the protests about healthcare directed at the politicians who are insisting that a bill that they said would cost $1.2 trillion over ten years yet is now estimated to cost $8.1 trillion but are steadfast that it must not be altered.
Though that isn't quite as funny as when you get the protesters complaining that they want the government to keep its hands out of their Medicare.

I though that I did just that.
Indeed you did, which obviously means that what I wrote was directed at those who objected to protesters when the last bunch of muppets was in office but are now in favour of protesters because there is a new bunch of muppets in office.

If a government run heath insurance program, in any form, passes, anyone, any were in the world with a serious medical condition and a plane ticket will be able to receive 100% no limit health care with no questions asked.
:har::har::har::har::har::har:
Perhaps you had better look at other governments existing health programs for examples as your theory doesn't hold water.

[mookiemookie]

That isn't in the bill you and the president say. Maybe not but the ACLU and the Supreme Court will surely make it so.

So your anger and criticism is directed at a situation that doesn't exist in reality but only in your head. That's rational.

[Aramike]

So your anger and criticism is directed at a situation that doesn't exist in reality but only in your head. That's rational.Wait, are you suggesting that it is irrational to consider the likelihood of the unwritten consequences of a hugely impactful peice of legislation?

I would contend the opposite and, quite frankly, I wish our lawmakers would spend more time examining possible unintended consequences...

[magic452]

Perhaps you had better look at other governments existing health programs for examples as your theory doesn't hold water.

Other countries are NOT the United States of America and never will be.

The enormous size of a universal health care system will make it imposable to manage efficiently. What works in a small country has absolutely no bearing what so ever on what will work in the US of A.

Try passing something like this in the EU as a whole and see what happens. Even countries with similar systems would balk at universal health care for all the EU run by one massive entity.
A one size fits all is not a workable solution on a very big scale with many diverse needs and opinions.

Study the Economy of Scale and the theory of Diminishing Returns, these apply to any enterprise private or governmental.

Social Security and Medicare are very small compared to universal health for 300,000,000 + people and look what a mess they are thanks to an inability to manage properly and interference by outside interest.

You are wrong. My theory holds a lot of water, all the water it need to.

So your anger and criticism is directed at a situation that doesn't exist in reality but only in your head. That's rational.

First I'm not angry but I am concerned.

It doesn't exist only in my head but in almost every government run program.

Income tax started out as a 1% tax on the rich.
Social Security started as a safety net for the elderly.
Medicare started as a plan to insure those who have few options left at retirement.
Welfare was to be a safety net for the poor, it is now a way of life for many and has put a big strain on many states economies.
Cash for clunkers is a perfect example. What was once a one billion dollar program tippled to three billion. It is deemed a big success. But watch and see what car sales numbers are in the next few months. They dried up the new car market at a cost of three billion. In the short run it may have helped but long term it was a waste of three billion.

There are very few government programs that haven't expanded way beyond there original intent.

No my head is just fine thank you. It isn't stuck in the sand like so many.
Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it.

Magic

[Tribesman]

Other countries are NOT the United States of America and never will be.

The enormous size of a universal health care system will make it imposable to manage efficiently. What works in a small country has absolutely no bearing what so ever on what will work in the US of A.

In that case since you are such a huge country obviously your roads will be rubbish and so will your military, after all on such a scale a government just can't do things at all.

My theory holds a lot of water, all the water it need to.
Only if people are really stupid, after all if all the other countries with it manage to draft legislation to prevent your scare story from taking place then why can't yours. Are your politicians just somehow a lot dumber than the prize idiots other countries elect?

[magic452]

In that case since you are such a huge country obviously your roads will be rubbish and so will your military, after all on such a scale a government just can't do things at all.

The management of the roads, with the exception of the interstate highway system is mainly a function of each individual state. The states decide which projects to work on and if they meet federal standers than the fed will kick in matching money for the project.

Management of this system is minuscule compared to universal health care. Millions of claims will be filed or acted on each week. You are comparing a few apples to millions of peas. There are some things that the government does fairly well. Social programs do not fall into this category.

And yes the road system is very much in need of repair, particularly the federal system and a lot of bridges. Obama made a very big deal out of this for the stimulus package, than devoted very little money to the problem.

As for the military, that is one place where the politicians are smart enough to listen to the professionals and not monkey around with it too much. That is national defense not social engineering, again not a very valid comparison.

Our prize idiots are far from dumb, they know how to push an agenda and get what they want and many want universal health care run solely by the government.

There is a very powerful contingent in congress that is hell bent on getting universal health and if they don't get it now they will work very hard at getting it later. Ted Kennedy to his dieing breath tried to get it and he had many very powerful supporters in and out of government.

Most if not all attempts at social engineering have ended up far more extensive and costly than originally intended. This is something that our government and our system is not very good at. This is the United States of America and what works for other countries does not necessary work here. This is not some other country, we ARE different. Good, bad or otherwise that is a fact. We are not Europeans, we don't even drive on the proper side of the road and have little knowledge of what a kilometer is and really don't care. We throw a football not bounce it off our heads.

The CRA was passed to stop financial institutions from refusing loans in certain poor areas. It eventually ended up trying to enable lenders to give loans to anybody that walked in the door. Why not when you can simply sell the loan to Freddie or Fannie, make your money and get out.
The greedy Wall Street folks jumped all over this and the result is what we have today. It was far more complicated than this but that is what started the ball rolling down the hill. There was no bill passed or debate just pressure by some in congress and changes in a few regulations.
Social engineering behind closed doors.

What I'm concerned about isn't a scare story but the fact that it has happened in the past but not on the scale that health care could be.

Johnson's Great Society program had the best of intentions but was a dismal and very costly failure.

Will it happen? Who knows? But why open the door, because there are many that will jump through and some may not have the most honorable of intentions.

Any bill that can be written can also be changed by another bill, regulations, law suites or the Supreme Court. The ACLU is dedicated to universal health and you can bet that they will be looking for any opening they can get. What is in this plan now will not be what we have 10 years down the road.

If a government option is passed there are many that will seek to include anyone who is in the US, either legally or otherwise. There is nothing in the present bill to prevent this.

There are far better options available than Obamacare. Many of which are posted in this thread.

Obama wanted this passed with no debate or even a good close look.
What I and a lot of others want is a voice in the process and we weren't getting it till there were very loud town hall meetings and tea parties.

I and many more don't like simply being dismissed by the powers that be by being call names. Right wing nut job etc. or even worse.
The same goes for calling someone a left wing nut job.

Those calling names say much more about themselves than they do about others.

Magic

[mookiemookie]

The CRA was passed to stop financial institutions from refusing loans in certain poor areas. It eventually ended up trying to enable lenders to give loans to anybody that walked in the door.

Nowhere in the CRA does it say lenders have to put aside traditional lending standards. Your statement simply is not true.

[SteamWake]

For cryin out loud people its not just about health care. :damn:

[magic452]

Mookie you are very right. The CRA dosn't outright say that but the devil is in the details. That is my point exactly, what is in a bill is not what you end up with.
Congress has very strong oversight of Freddie and Fannie and pressure and changes in policy did indeed lead to the situation I was talking about.

The CRA was a good and necessary idea and worked well for many years.
It wasn't till politicians started social engineering that it went wrong.
There were many factors in the fall and both parties share responsibility.
The Dems were pushing for low income housing and it got out of control.

The Repbs set the stage by relaxing regulation too far. And both were not keeping an eye on the situation and were in fact encouraging the practice of "no qualifying" loans. Wall Street jumped all over this.

Health care certainly needs on overhaul and those that truly can't afford insurance do need some help. I don't oppose this but there are far better ways than Obamacare.

Government run health care opens the door to many forms of abuse and/or mismanagement. If the past is any indication this may well come true.

Yes indeed it is about control, the more the populace relies on the government the easier it is to maintain power.

I'm not the extremist that I may have sounded like in my post but the fact is that I don't trust the government to be looking out for MY best interest. It is only THEIR best interest that politicians have in mind.

Magic