Feuer Frei!
09-12-09, 08:45 PM
Kaleuns, i welcome your feedback on who would win if a head-to-head battle was waged between these two.
One on one battles between submarines were rare. Not counting surprise attacks when submarines sank enemy submarines, which usually involved surprise.
Here we have a late World War II American submarine squaring off against the most common long-range German U-Boat. Consider everything in this battle. Stealth, survivability of the design, weaponry. Assume crews of approximately equal capabilities.
Captains are free to fight submerged or surfaced, but ultimately the best combination of technological advantages wins the day.
Who would that be? USN or Kriegsmarine?
Additional Details
By late in the war the Germans had developed homing torpedoes. I am uncertain whether type IX U-Boats ever carried them, but the accoustic torpedo was available by 1945.
2 years ago
Another consideration, most submarines make some ambient noise, whether it be cavitation from movement through the water or screw noise, or sounds of electric motors. So it is possible to detect and locate another submarine without active sonar. But certainly active sonar is one weapon in the arsenal both captains have to work with. Properly used, it could give a smart crew a little bit of an edge--or it could blow a dumb crew's cover.
2 years ago
Torpedo problems were rampant in US Navy subs and aircraft in 1942 and 1943, but by 1944 had largely been corrected. Balao was commissioned in 1943. Type IX U-Boats were one of the most numerous types, and were built throughout the war.
2 years ago
In 1944-45 most American submarines had been equipped with active radar that could be used on the surface. Most U-Boats were not equipped with active radar, although they had passive detection devices primarily as a defense against airborne radar. U.S. radar on submarines was probably better than whatever active radar might have been on U-Boats.
On maximum depth for various types, U.S. subs could probably go deeper than the recommended maximum depths. USN tended to be conservative in setting operating limits. So it is possible the U-Boat and Balao could have had very similar depth capabilities.
US submarines were well-built, generally performed well, and were highly successful in Pacific operations. Both the Kriegsmarine and US Navy were plagued by bad torpedoes, but US torpedoes were improved later in the war.
The Kriegsmarine had a two-year head start on the US Navy in submarine combat operations. World War I experiences by Germans were not a significant advantage.
2 years ago
The Balao class:
http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/becuna2.jpg
The Type lX:
http://scaleshipyard.com/Images/Catalog%20Photos/Prototype%20Photos/Submarines/ix9c.JPG
i am favouring the type 1X, based on the general consencious that german crews were very well trained and that discipline and battle experience would be a factor in swaying the battle. Of course one cannot say that that would be the case every single time were these two to meet, obviously a lot of factors come into play such as weather, if the boats are on limited ammo due to returning from successful patrols, loss of crew from unsuccessful patrols, morale etc etc etc.
One on one battles between submarines were rare. Not counting surprise attacks when submarines sank enemy submarines, which usually involved surprise.
Here we have a late World War II American submarine squaring off against the most common long-range German U-Boat. Consider everything in this battle. Stealth, survivability of the design, weaponry. Assume crews of approximately equal capabilities.
Captains are free to fight submerged or surfaced, but ultimately the best combination of technological advantages wins the day.
Who would that be? USN or Kriegsmarine?
Additional Details
By late in the war the Germans had developed homing torpedoes. I am uncertain whether type IX U-Boats ever carried them, but the accoustic torpedo was available by 1945.
2 years ago
Another consideration, most submarines make some ambient noise, whether it be cavitation from movement through the water or screw noise, or sounds of electric motors. So it is possible to detect and locate another submarine without active sonar. But certainly active sonar is one weapon in the arsenal both captains have to work with. Properly used, it could give a smart crew a little bit of an edge--or it could blow a dumb crew's cover.
2 years ago
Torpedo problems were rampant in US Navy subs and aircraft in 1942 and 1943, but by 1944 had largely been corrected. Balao was commissioned in 1943. Type IX U-Boats were one of the most numerous types, and were built throughout the war.
2 years ago
In 1944-45 most American submarines had been equipped with active radar that could be used on the surface. Most U-Boats were not equipped with active radar, although they had passive detection devices primarily as a defense against airborne radar. U.S. radar on submarines was probably better than whatever active radar might have been on U-Boats.
On maximum depth for various types, U.S. subs could probably go deeper than the recommended maximum depths. USN tended to be conservative in setting operating limits. So it is possible the U-Boat and Balao could have had very similar depth capabilities.
US submarines were well-built, generally performed well, and were highly successful in Pacific operations. Both the Kriegsmarine and US Navy were plagued by bad torpedoes, but US torpedoes were improved later in the war.
The Kriegsmarine had a two-year head start on the US Navy in submarine combat operations. World War I experiences by Germans were not a significant advantage.
2 years ago
The Balao class:
http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/becuna2.jpg
The Type lX:
http://scaleshipyard.com/Images/Catalog%20Photos/Prototype%20Photos/Submarines/ix9c.JPG
i am favouring the type 1X, based on the general consencious that german crews were very well trained and that discipline and battle experience would be a factor in swaying the battle. Of course one cannot say that that would be the case every single time were these two to meet, obviously a lot of factors come into play such as weather, if the boats are on limited ammo due to returning from successful patrols, loss of crew from unsuccessful patrols, morale etc etc etc.